here we are 4 years into warcraft and the game is still going strong . but apart from it being a bigger game world now after two expansion i think it undeniable that blizzard have made some massive mistakes in the last two years implimenting changes in the game play . i think the problem now is everything is easily obtainable which is good for the casual player and obviously aimed at a very young audiance . which is working because warcraft is now little more than a school playground . the community has suffered because of this in terms of the attitude you get from players . i definatly think its time for blizzard to impliment adult servers . i mean if you had a chat room activly promoting adults and children sharing the same space there would be an out cry . the expansion packs both brought ten new levels . this seams great at first glance but essentially it means anything you do in the two years inbetween them becomes redundant when the next expansion comes out . would nt it have been better rather than offering easily obtainable extra levels to offer a harder series of quests that would have allowed for slightly better and newer talents . essentially building on what you have achieved rather than making it out of date once every two years . the ease of obtaining gear via the battleground reward system . lets face it most people are all epic these days . you can get it within 2-4 weeks in the battlegrounds now . changes to the honor system have made it possible even if you lose . what this has brought about is a playerbase that dont really want to learn battle ground tactics because they know win or lose they will still be able to get thier epic in no time at all . offering the losing side maybe 20 percent of what the winning side gets and not allowing any honor to be made from kills made in the battle grounds would perhaps stop the mindless zerg . class imbalances are now at thier worst ever . its no longer about knowing how to play your class . some classes like paladins and rogues are virtually superpowered compared to other classes in the game . faster leveling has destroyed the mid game on most servers . if you level an alt its virtually impossible to get groups together to do instances and quests from levels 20 -60 . this really has had the effect of making warcraft an asian grinder at those levels because most solo quests are go out and kill x number of mobs of gather x number of herbs or find this or that item .
If the game is still going strong than how has it gone wrong?
This thread basically breaks down to OP not liking all the features implemented.
Warcraft didn't "go wrong". They went pretty damn "right" actually. And 10+ million monthly subscription payments prove it.
p.s. No, I don't play.
I doubt they ll be able to boast that amount of subs if the game does nt improve and soon . They got things right in the short term by making it easier but long term might be a different matter .
That is the same thing people have been saying for 3 years now. Let me know how it turns out...
To me its seems recently that blizzard have taken a stance on if not enough guilds are completing the end game content they will nerf it till everyone can. Kinda defeats the challenge of the game for me.
Pvp is ok. i get really bored with the bgs. Find it grindy rather then being about team play and the win. Arena is cool but with unblanced classes seem to dominate the arena each season rather then the players skills.
World pvp is kinda dead at the moment well in both the eu and US servers i have played in. BC world pvp was great i think this is mainly due to the massive size of northrend. I wouldn't count world pvp as witnergrasp myself. It lags to hell and really cannot enjoy it.
Overall i think the game hasn't really evolved that much from the orignal game in its ideas. It mainly just regurgitated stuff. I am hoping they are saving all their brand spanking new ideas for the new MMORPG with its own IP.
To me its still one of the best done games out there polished, stable and fun it to play which whats important.
expansions for making the game too easy. Only about 1% of the guilds raided Naxx in 60, I was in one of them. Don't give me the talk about wow always having been easy because it's not true.
Warcraft didn't "go wrong". They went pretty damn "right" actually. And 10+ million monthly subscription payments prove it.
p.s. No, I don't play.
I doubt they ll be able to boast that amount of subs if the game does nt improve and soon . They got things right in the short term by making it easier but long term might be a different matter .
That is the same thing people have been saying for 3 years now. Let me know how it turns out...
Ahh yes but for every year that passes wow gets older looks older and blizzard manage to mess up the gameplay more and more . Its really only a matter of time now before something comes along and steals its thunder . You would have to be stupid to believe any mmo can maintain such levels of popularity forever . Things always move on otherwise we d all still be playing pac man , pong and space invaders . The same will and does apply to mmos . Your just plain wrong if you think the status quo can continue . Warcraft will see a decline and sooner than you think . It may at best manage to keep its current popularity for a couple of years before something else takes it place . All it takes is some decent competition . Theres been a lot of let downs but that does nt mean that will continue to be the case .Warcraft will continue of course proberbly for another decade but the amount of people playing it will decrease . Thats the way things go , get used to it .
I had to vote for other i cant say that W.O.W is a bad game but its loosing its luster IMO the fact that evrey year or two. You scrap your gear you spent the year b4 grinding endless dungons due to the fact that player crafting pales deeply vs salveged loot who knows how old in some dank dungon just to find some green/blue x times better then what you had that i dont mind so much because hey you got a new goal bull rush to 80 so you can hurry up and do it again ><.
But honestly I still like wow and to play it just because It's my home away from home per say my guildies are like kin to me in some ways (mhe so i dont have much of a RL social life) but like life all things must come to an end i'm not wishing evil on wow but i am looking for somthing fresh and hopefully as social wow is.
But as arthen999 puts it
the community has suffered because of this in terms of the attitude you get from players . i definatly think its time for blizzard to impliment adult servers . i mean if you had a chat room activly promoting adults and children sharing the same space there would be an out cry .
If kids are online or even have access to the internet #1 parents are responsible even if it had a E rateing its still online. I also give a hand to young players who in my mind anyway seem to act alot better then pug groups who refuse to listen to anyone.
WoW is a great game. I dont agree with all the decisions the developers have made, but all in all WoW is the best PvE game of all time. And if WoW is so easy, why get our party keep getting wiped? Maybe we is stupit. Time sink does not equal "hard". Im glad WoW doesnt have more time sinks.
dont mean to double post but as qweniden put it they did make it a whole lost easier to lvl up to 80 (no you dont need to rush though to lvl the point is to have fun, more so if your really a newb) thats due to the fact that the bulk of the content is at max lvl pvp/raids/arenas.
now the only way I've seen a roundabout on this type is if you do what COX does (or some other mmo's but i dont have any names to put down off the top) that have a budy system or "lacky" as coh puts it. If they would use a system like that then they could slow down levling for the people to enjoy the game.
If i'm repeating my self sue me but like i said levling process in wow 1-80 now is mostly just so you get to know your char' for those who love the lore you can follow quest chains up and down and what i really love due to the fact that i like some of the lore is you can do old quest even if you out level it.
To the OP - your opinion is exactly that, *your* opinion. Several million players apparently disagree with you, and Blizzard pulls in almost 2 *BILLION* dollars in sub fees per year. So your question about "where did warcraft go wrong" is not valid from any view that matters.
just cause i'm bored and i'm trolling anyway you can subtract 1-2% of that on gold farmers thogh bliz is doing a good job at cuting that down.
To the OP - your opinion is exactly that, *your* opinion. Several million players apparently disagree with you, and Blizzard pulls in almost 2 *BILLION* dollars in sub fees per year. So your question about "where did warcraft go wrong" is not valid from any view that matters.
just cause i'm bored and i'm trolling anyway you can subtract 1-2% of that on gold farmers thogh bliz is doing a good job at cuting that down.
Most gold farmers still subscribe to the game though so it is still $$ in Blizzard's pocket.
lol guys everything posted anywhere in these forums is a personal opinion . my opinions are nothing new . you can look anywhere in these forums and find plenty of people saying the same thing .
actually in warcraft itself if you take the time to talk to people they ll proberbly agree . how many times have you heard people complaining about classes like paladins being over powered or ended up in a battleground finding player dont bother to learn the tactics . try leveling an alt on most servers you ll have huge problems getting a group together . all you have to do is look at the general chat to see that the community has gone downhill . i mean it always did have a few people with a bad attitude but now its a lot worse
the one thing i will agree on level 60 + warcraft still offers a relativly decent pve experiance and it would still offer a decent experiance prior to that if everyone was nt leveling so quickly nowdays .before level 60 you may as well be in a korean grinder on most servers .admitedly the instances are there still but try getting a group together to do them .an mmo is not all about the endgame its partly about enjoying the journey getting there .
warcraft may be still a success in terms of the numbers of subs it has but that does nt automatically make everything blizzard has done in terms of its gameplay for the good of the game and actually proberbly long term it wont be for the good of blizzard either . if some of you took your fanbois blinkers off you d realise that thier is some validity to the issues i ve brought up .
Just because you hate the doesn't mean they are losing the war or mad ea bad game, maybe in your opinion they failed but unless WoW loses 3/4 of their population over night I think they are still beating every would be threat that has come across their thresh hold.
People on this site say the game is a failure because to them it has failed what they wanted out of a MMO and they are looking for something else to fill their MMO void, I come to check on how other MMOs are trying to progress, that and SWTOR interest me.
i dont think the game failed at all i think they were very sucsessfull i played through beta and through the games life right up until about 2 months before wrath released played very sucsessfully with my guild pre BC before i stepped down the hardcore level due to the ease of the raids after that cause lets face it a 5 year old could run the raids in BC they were just too simple so i guess in a sense that was a failure for me
but other than that for me i think the game was great..until they released wrath..haveing not played it and not wanted to due to the game becomeing much much easier and casual player freindly and in my eyes a total /spit in the face of warcraft lore being a fan of the lore and writen some of my own work i jsut feel that the "added" lore of wrath is a bit of a joke i wont go into detail because i can sit here all day pointing out the flaws :P
so to reiterate the game has not gone wrong it has just failed to deliver specific things to specific players and at the end of the day you cant feed an army from just one plate
make a note that i am very polite in my posts not to flame others unlike yourself
so lets start with where your oh so wrong before you get too far ahead of yourself
1. i said I dont play WOTLK my GF does so even though i dont play the game i still offer up my advice number crunching and stuff to her during raids ect so dont sit there telling me i dont know what im talking about.
2. and as for lore i have followed warcraft lore for most of my teenage and adult life and i can date the warcraft lore history back 10,000 years if you read the books and follow it correctly not to mention writen my own storys acording to the lore and funny enough im writeing one now
3. spelling im not even going to make an excuse i dont use the spell check mabey i should but i dont but the fact that you need to degrade it when im trying to make a simple veiw as to where i THINK blizz went wrong being MY sole opinion just goes to show your level of positive input into these forums and as such i dont think that any for your future posts will hold any intrest to me because of your lack of open mindedness and politeness of this subject
have a nice day
p.s. to keep these forums in high regard and in a good name any further flames or comments please pm them to or add me to hotmail and we can disscuss what you dissagree with in detail as i dont like the fact that a good site and forum is dragged through the mud during incidents like this
lore, balance leveling xp etc are all fine for me.
i think 1 of the main mistakes blizz made is in its pvp i am not a pvp'er but i do like to have the odd horde killing spree i have no idea how they could make pvp better for the not so hardcore pvp'ers but back in the day i used to love the hillsbrad battles etc that was fun even if it made the server act like a stoned old wrinkly on a zimmer frame.
. i think the problem now is everything is easily obtainable which is good for the casual player and obviously aimed at a very young audiance .
Or people with jobs who cant raid for 12 hours straight to have a chance for a roll on a piece of armor........
IlgauskasLineage II CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 58
Originally posted by Zorndorf
------> With present day limits of server capacity (3.5K people concurrently on line) in fantasy games it is no easy task. But apparently they still succeed in it. Have you any other idea how to do it? They don't have an alternative but to concentrate people around their new expansion content ... and apparently it works.
Hello,
Knowing that you always try to back up your statements with some kind of proof (stats, researches) I would like to ask you something. How do you know how many players can be online in WoW's realm? Where do you get such an info? Can you post a link? Thanks in advance.
By the way, I would like to disagree that 3.5k is the current limitation. In Russian Lineage 2 retail servers there are 5k+ players online every evening. Here is the photo of the server stats that you can check at anytime. You may ask why is there an 5000 player cap so I'll answer in advance. It is created because Russian retail follows an F2P model. If you want to login when there are more than 5000 players online, you have to pay.
WoW went wrong for me when it became nothing but raiding for end game. This is a problem I have found in every MMO I've played so far, but it was a much greater disappointment in WoW because of it's early dedication to casual game play and ended up doing a complete 180. It was a sense of great betrayal for me.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
i am not sure if someone posted what i am about to say, but frankly...i don't have the will to read every post about this.
Simply put,
It is a business. Sure, they could've done this should've done that. Whatever. Bottom line is, people played it, loved it and a lot are still playing it.
I am not anymore, i used to love this game. Quit after BC. one of the few to have downed Rag,Nef,Cthun, and KT. So don't brand me as fanboi, because i don't like this game anymore
These guys just made it into the guiniess book of world records, i think it safe to say they are winning the war.
By this Logic, Brittney Spears is the greatest singer EVER!! Sales don't mean everything.
Oh, and I chose "faster leveling" as the worst, but it looks like I'm in the manority. The expansion option was my second choice (a very close second). Not to compare the games, but I remembered thinking how I liked GW expansion setup over the WoW method.
Comments
If the game is still going strong than how has it gone wrong?
This thread basically breaks down to OP not liking all the features implemented.
I doubt they ll be able to boast that amount of subs if the game does nt improve and soon . They got things right in the short term by making it easier but long term might be a different matter .
That is the same thing people have been saying for 3 years now. Let me know how it turns out...
To me its seems recently that blizzard have taken a stance on if not enough guilds are completing the end game content they will nerf it till everyone can. Kinda defeats the challenge of the game for me.
Pvp is ok. i get really bored with the bgs. Find it grindy rather then being about team play and the win. Arena is cool but with unblanced classes seem to dominate the arena each season rather then the players skills.
World pvp is kinda dead at the moment well in both the eu and US servers i have played in. BC world pvp was great i think this is mainly due to the massive size of northrend. I wouldn't count world pvp as witnergrasp myself. It lags to hell and really cannot enjoy it.
Overall i think the game hasn't really evolved that much from the orignal game in its ideas. It mainly just regurgitated stuff. I am hoping they are saving all their brand spanking new ideas for the new MMORPG with its own IP.
To me its still one of the best done games out there polished, stable and fun it to play which whats important.
expansions for making the game too easy. Only about 1% of the guilds raided Naxx in 60, I was in one of them. Don't give me the talk about wow always having been easy because it's not true.
I doubt they ll be able to boast that amount of subs if the game does nt improve and soon . They got things right in the short term by making it easier but long term might be a different matter .
That is the same thing people have been saying for 3 years now. Let me know how it turns out...
Ahh yes but for every year that passes wow gets older looks older and blizzard manage to mess up the gameplay more and more . Its really only a matter of time now before something comes along and steals its thunder . You would have to be stupid to believe any mmo can maintain such levels of popularity forever . Things always move on otherwise we d all still be playing pac man , pong and space invaders . The same will and does apply to mmos . Your just plain wrong if you think the status quo can continue . Warcraft will see a decline and sooner than you think . It may at best manage to keep its current popularity for a couple of years before something else takes it place . All it takes is some decent competition . Theres been a lot of let downs but that does nt mean that will continue to be the case .Warcraft will continue of course proberbly for another decade but the amount of people playing it will decrease . Thats the way things go , get used to it .
WoW is a great game. I dont agree with all the decisions the developers have made, but all in all WoW is the best PvE game of all time.
And if WoW is so easy, why get our party keep getting wiped? Maybe we is stupit.
Time sink does not equal "hard". Im glad WoW doesnt have more time sinks.
I had to vote for other i cant say that W.O.W is a bad game but its loosing its luster IMO the fact that evrey year or two. You scrap your gear you spent the year b4 grinding endless dungons due to the fact that player crafting pales deeply vs salveged loot who knows how old in some dank dungon just to find some green/blue x times better then what you had that i dont mind so much because hey you got a new goal bull rush to 80 so you can hurry up and do it again ><.
But honestly I still like wow and
to play it just because It's my home away from home per say my guildies are like kin to me in some ways (mhe so i dont have much of a RL social life) but like life all things must come to an end i'm not wishing evil on wow but i am looking for somthing fresh and hopefully as social wow is.
But as arthen999 puts it
the community has suffered because of this in terms of the attitude you get from players . i definatly think its time for blizzard to impliment adult servers . i mean if you had a chat room activly promoting adults and children sharing the same space there would be an out cry .
If kids are online or even have access to the internet #1 parents are responsible even if it had a E rateing its still online. I also give a hand to young players who in my mind anyway seem to act alot better then pug groups who refuse to listen to anyone.
dont mean to double post but as qweniden put it they did make it a whole lost easier to lvl up to 80 (no you dont need to rush though to lvl the point is to have fun, more so if your really a newb) thats due to the fact that the bulk of the content is at max lvl pvp/raids/arenas.
now the only way I've seen a roundabout on this type is if you do what COX does (or some other mmo's but i dont have any names to put down off the top) that have a budy system or "lacky" as coh puts it. If they would use a system like that then they could slow down levling for the people to enjoy the game.
If i'm repeating my self sue me but like i said levling process in wow 1-80 now is mostly just so you get to know your char' for those who love the lore you can follow quest chains up and down and what i really love due to the fact that i like some of the lore is you can do old quest even if you out level it.
To the OP - your opinion is exactly that, *your* opinion.
Several million players apparently disagree with you, and Blizzard pulls in almost 2 *BILLION* dollars in sub fees per year.
So your question about "where did warcraft go wrong" is not valid from any view that matters.
just cause i'm bored and i'm trolling anyway you can subtract 1-2% of that on gold farmers thogh bliz is doing a good job at cuting that down.
just cause i'm bored and i'm trolling anyway you can subtract 1-2% of that on gold farmers thogh bliz is doing a good job at cuting that down.
Most gold farmers still subscribe to the game though so it is still $$ in Blizzard's pocket.
thats true but i dont considter them player's
lol guys everything posted anywhere in these forums is a personal opinion . my opinions are nothing new . you can look anywhere in these forums and find plenty of people saying the same thing .
actually in warcraft itself if you take the time to talk to people they ll proberbly agree . how many times have you heard people complaining about classes like paladins being over powered or ended up in a battleground finding player dont bother to learn the tactics . try leveling an alt on most servers you ll have huge problems getting a group together . all you have to do is look at the general chat to see that the community has gone downhill . i mean it always did have a few people with a bad attitude but now its a lot worse
the one thing i will agree on level 60 + warcraft still offers a relativly decent pve experiance and it would still offer a decent experiance prior to that if everyone was nt leveling so quickly nowdays .before level 60 you may as well be in a korean grinder on most servers .admitedly the instances are there still but try getting a group together to do them .an mmo is not all about the endgame its partly about enjoying the journey getting there .
warcraft may be still a success in terms of the numbers of subs it has but that does nt automatically make everything blizzard has done in terms of its gameplay for the good of the game and actually proberbly long term it wont be for the good of blizzard either . if some of you took your fanbois blinkers off you d realise that thier is some validity to the issues i ve brought up .
Just because you hate the doesn't mean they are losing the war or mad ea bad game, maybe in your opinion they failed but unless WoW loses 3/4 of their population over night I think they are still beating every would be threat that has come across their thresh hold.
People on this site say the game is a failure because to them it has failed what they wanted out of a MMO and they are looking for something else to fill their MMO void, I come to check on how other MMOs are trying to progress, that and SWTOR interest me.
my 2 cents here
i dont think the game failed at all i think they were very sucsessfull i played through beta and through the games life right up until about 2 months before wrath released played very sucsessfully with my guild pre BC before i stepped down the hardcore level due to the ease of the raids after that cause lets face it a 5 year old could run the raids in BC they were just too simple so i guess in a sense that was a failure for me
but other than that for me i think the game was great..until they released wrath..haveing not played it and not wanted to due to the game becomeing much much easier and casual player freindly and in my eyes a total /spit in the face of warcraft lore being a fan of the lore and writen some of my own work i jsut feel that the "added" lore of wrath is a bit of a joke i wont go into detail because i can sit here all day pointing out the flaws :P
so to reiterate the game has not gone wrong it has just failed to deliver specific things to specific players and at the end of the day you cant feed an army from just one plate
have a nice day
hmm nice reply
oops i ment flame
make a note that i am very polite in my posts not to flame others unlike yourself
so lets start with where your oh so wrong before you get too far ahead of yourself
1. i said I dont play WOTLK my GF does so even though i dont play the game i still offer up my advice number crunching and stuff to her during raids ect so dont sit there telling me i dont know what im talking about.
2. and as for lore i have followed warcraft lore for most of my teenage and adult life and i can date the warcraft lore history back 10,000 years if you read the books and follow it correctly not to mention writen my own storys acording to the lore and funny enough im writeing one now
3. spelling im not even going to make an excuse i dont use the spell check mabey i should but i dont but the fact that you need to degrade it when im trying to make a simple veiw as to where i THINK blizz went wrong being MY sole opinion just goes to show your level of positive input into these forums and as such i dont think that any for your future posts will hold any intrest to me because of your lack of open mindedness and politeness of this subject
have a nice day
p.s. to keep these forums in high regard and in a good name any further flames or comments please pm them to or add me to hotmail and we can disscuss what you dissagree with in detail as i dont like the fact that a good site and forum is dragged through the mud during incidents like this
thank you
i voted other.
lore, balance leveling xp etc are all fine for me.
i think 1 of the main mistakes blizz made is in its pvp i am not a pvp'er but i do like to have the odd horde killing spree
i have no idea how they could make pvp better for the not so hardcore pvp'ers but back in the day i used to love the hillsbrad battles etc that was fun even if it made the server act like a stoned old wrinkly on a zimmer frame.
Or people with jobs who cant raid for 12 hours straight to have a chance for a roll on a piece of armor........
Hello,
Knowing that you always try to back up your statements with some kind of proof (stats, researches) I would like to ask you something. How do you know how many players can be online in WoW's realm? Where do you get such an info? Can you post a link? Thanks in advance.
By the way, I would like to disagree that 3.5k is the current limitation. In Russian Lineage 2 retail servers there are 5k+ players online every evening. Here is the photo of the server stats that you can check at anytime. You may ask why is there an 5000 player cap so I'll answer in advance. It is created because Russian retail follows an F2P model. If you want to login when there are more than 5000 players online, you have to pay.
Ilgauskas
WoW went wrong for me when it became nothing but raiding for end game. This is a problem I have found in every MMO I've played so far, but it was a much greater disappointment in WoW because of it's early dedication to casual game play and ended up doing a complete 180. It was a sense of great betrayal for me.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
i am not sure if someone posted what i am about to say, but frankly...i don't have the will to read every post about this.
Simply put,
It is a business. Sure, they could've done this should've done that. Whatever. Bottom line is, people played it, loved it and a lot are still playing it.
I am not anymore, i used to love this game. Quit after BC. one of the few to have downed Rag,Nef,Cthun, and KT. So don't brand me as fanboi, because i don't like this game anymore
The game went wrong when expansions came out. Shit is too easy now.
By this Logic, Brittney Spears is the greatest singer EVER!! Sales don't mean everything.
Oh, and I chose "faster leveling" as the worst, but it looks like I'm in the manority. The expansion option was my second choice (a very close second). Not to compare the games, but I remembered thinking how I liked GW expansion setup over the WoW method.