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The Good and Bad of WAR
cybertrucker
Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
So I have played WAR on and off since week 2 of CLOSED beta.. I have watched the game take many turns some for good some for bad. I even played a roll in getting the devs to implement dual targeting since I had come from Vanguard and pushed hard on the closed beta forums for the devs to take a look at it. Which they eventually did.
As for WAR and how it turned out and in its current state. I figured I would write a small review on the good and the bad aspects of the game. Currently I am playing but as stated before its been a on again off again type of relationship for me with this game.
The GOOD: Well for start regardless of what alot of people say the game world I personally feel looks great. Now I realize its not the most advanced graphics engine on the market being utilized but it is stylized. It fits the whole Warhammer fantasy theme great. I have been a WFB (warhammer fantasy battle) table top gamer since about 1990.. and I believe Mythic did a fairly decent job recreating the world that has been displayed artistically throughout the books.
I also believe that while some tweaking still needs to be addressed I believe the game is actually fairly balanced. I have read countless times about how badly balanced this game is and well I have to say I cant disagree more with that. The thing is WAR was balanced around TEAM play not solo play. When you log onto a destruction character and play the game up you hear the exact same arguments that you hear on the Order side. Its a win some lose some type of game. Not a one class or 2 class dominates all kinda of game. After you run some Scenarios you will see that teams that launch the Scenario and play a TEAM will dominate. There are all kinds of GROUP synergies that players can come up with between multiple classes that just do well. Also most the time losing teams are the ones that dont communicate. Go in with a group of friends and use Ventrillo or teamspeak and you will see a HUGE difference in outcome.
Open RVR has improved Dramatically they give reasons now to defend keeps this is one of the things that has been addressed and its a good thing it has. You actually just as much of reward for defending as you do for taking keeps. This has drawn people into ORVR in droves.
Last but definately not least is Character customization. This game has probably some of the best character customization I have seen in any game. Its slightly different than the AA system or feat or talent system. The Mastery System is just great. The way they have Morales and Tactics with only limited slots really lets you distinguish your play style from other people who play the same class as you. Granted sometimes I wish I could slot all my tactics lol.. But I think by limiting the number you can have actualy improves the game play and individual play styles. Also the dyes well. I personally believe EVERY game should have gear dye..
ok on the BAD things. Overall I think PVE in the game is really just lacking. I realize this game is promoting RVR. But its nice to be able to take a break from RVR and running quests and if you like the lore of a world getting to learn how they have presented it. However In PVEing at all you really gimp your character. 1. You dont earn ANY reknown which is an alternate type of advancement. Some of the best gear in the game comes from Reknown. which you only earn thru PVP/RVR. Those peices of gear not only a certain character level but a reknown level as well. Not to mention if your level 30 or 40 and your reknown rank is lower than the person standing next to you he not only is most likely going to have superior gear but he is going to have more Reknown abilities which means higher stats.. more gold whatever. the alternate advancement that comes from reknown can add alot. This REALLY needs to be addressed.. Quests and PQs should really give reknown
Another note on PVE is mob AI.. this game probably has some of the WORST mob AI i have ever seen in ANY game. I urged them to add BAF mob style in this game during the early stages of beta. (BAF is bring a friend) the mobs just stand there dumbly as you pull another mob close to them... Its pretty retarded. You do see a few BAF mobs in the higher levels but BAF adds challenge... Something the PVE in this game is severely lacking.. PQs mobs are tougher for sure.
Last but not least in the bad side is the engine of the game definately needs tweaking. Vanguard and Age of Conan run smoother on my computer than WAR does and both of those games are way more graphically demanding than WAR is... There are memory leaks that will cause crashes and stutter. I usually crash once or twice a night. This needs to be addressed.
Well I will end my list of good and bad with that. I will also note that even with its imperfections the game overall can be fun. Especially if played with friends. I am looking forward to the content expansion coming soon. It will be nice to see them mix more PVE with RVR, as I like both.
Well thats it for now.. be safe all and good hunting.
ohh yes and DEATH to Destruction... I absolutely love my SwordMaster. A class in the game you hear so many people whine about being underpowered... My suggestion is to learn how to play your Swordmaster lol..
Comments
I see two sides to the issue of balance. As a team game any character seems balanced when focus is placed on the group and not the contribution of the individual class. Team combat is fun and it is easier to overlook issues in this manner, but it doesn't mean things are balanced.
When people say the game isn't balanced I think they are making reference to a few things. One of which is the predetermined nature of many fights. There is more than enough small scale fightings between 1 vs 1 or similar for it to be an important factor in the game. Many of those fights outcomes are already determined just by the classes squaring off. The whole rock-paper-scissors isn't really balanced in the game at all. For a game that is supposed to be skill based, class plays the most important factor.
Also the part where you say one or two classes don't turn the tide of battle I have to disagree. Brightwizards and sorcerors sure did make the most impact on defending keeps for example. Warrior priests with group heals sure made much more impact than say a team with nothing by archmages. The introduction of choppas and slayas sure did alter the entire combat system and actually made some classes obsolete.
The balance is playable, but it isn't really a well designed scheme yet. There is still way to much ae (damage and cc) on one side compared to another just for example.
I see two sides to the issue of balance. As a team game any character seems balanced when focus is placed on the group and not the contribution of the individual class. Team combat is fun and it is easier to overlook issues in this manner, but it doesn't mean things are balanced.
When people say the game isn't balanced I think they are making reference to a few things. One of which is the predetermined nature of many fights. There is more than enough small scale fightings between 1 vs 1 or similar for it to be an important factor in the game. Many of those fights outcomes are already determined just by the classes squaring off. The whole rock-paper-scissors isn't really balanced in the game at all. For a game that is supposed to be skill based, class plays the most important factor.
Once again though this game was not and is not balanced on a 1v1 fight. And I cant think of any MMORPG that every class or every build is balanced completely in a 1v1 fight there are certain classes in every game that do extraordinary well and those that dont. The devs repeated time and time again though they were not balancing them for 1v1.. that is what people fail to remember. Also while this game is a game of skill it is also a game of random numbers. True "SKILL" based games are first person shooters where random numbers dont play as big a roll. I know that against an equal level class with my SwordMaster I can usually hold my own. Sometimes I win sometimes I dont. Healers usually pose the biggest problem but I have died to nasty DPSers as well, occasionally.
Also the part where you say one or two classes don't turn the tide of battle I have to disagree. Brightwizards and sorcerors sure did make the most impact on defending keeps for example. Warrior priests with group heals sure made much more impact than say a team with nothing by archmages. The introduction of choppas and slayas sure did alter the entire combat system and actually made some classes obsolete.
Brightwizards and Sorcerors are class cannons... yes they can turn the tide of battle but after nerfs to AOE that doesnt happen as often. Also they are easy to take out.. If your Warband is prepared they shouldnt cause that much of a problem.. A well placed cannon shot or 2 takes them out fairly easily. Which anyone can contribute with. As for group heals IE the Warrior Priests and Disicples of Khaine they are being addressed... Shatter Enchantment is my best friend vs DoKs I hear people complain about how insanely powerful they are however after shattering their enchantments they just dont seem so tough. I have take out my fair share. I am assuming your talking about classes like whom? Which hunters? I run with a which hunter who is insane in single target take outs. Archmages are HoT spike healers... they can make a a HUGE difference when your getting nuked to death by multiple nukers.
The balance is playable, but it isn't really a well designed scheme yet. There is still way to much ae (damage and cc) on one side compared to another just for example.
Ok the one thing that does need to be addressed and I will agree with completely. is CC there are to many disorient, stun and knockback effects in game. They could easily add diminishing returns on them to help take care of that problem. This is one thing that does need to be addressed. In time I am sure they will.
I understand this game is not based on 1v1 and the excuse for class balance being so out of whack is "this is a team based game". Saying those words is not an excuse for some classes to stand head and shoulders above their counterparts. Individual class design is important and it is important how classes stack up to each other both from combat standpoint and raid composition.
I could build a warband and exclude several classes and my warband would be stronger for it. There are to many classes that are a step down in overtall team performance and replacing them with another class that fits the same job description (tank, healer, melee, ranged) will be a significant upgrade to the team. Likewise most fights are predetermined not by players skill, but simply by the classes they chose at character creation. There are far to many of these situations to call the game balanced. It takes far to much out of the combat when you can safely predict the outcome of a fight before the first blow has even landed.
I never claimed other games get everything perfectly balanced as you so glibly put it. However saying a game is balanced for team play is just glossing over the importance of individual class contribution and comparison of classes. Like it or not, there is far to much small scale encounters in this game to ignore it and hide it under the blanket of team balance. It isn't like you can balance the team without balancing the individuals first. Saying the team is balanced doesn't justify 5 classes being less capable than their respective counterparts. Personally I don't even think they have team balance down yet.
So give me one example of a class that is underpowered in your opinion? on Order first then on Destruction. Or not balanced well enough..I can guarentee I can show exactly the opposite of what that class is designed for... Will there be some classes that stand out more in Solo PVP sure.. The only 2 classes that I can think of that might need some tweaking atm really are Choppas and Slayers.. And really not that much tweaking. I have already stated that there is some minor tweaking that could be done but overall the game is balanced for what the game was designed to be.
Ohh and for your point about picking certain classes to create a warband. Well there are classes that have great synergy with other classes. I for example Play a Sword Master Khaine Spec One of my friend Plays A Knight of the Blazing sun. We almost always run together when we are both on. During such times he changes his tactics to synergize with my damage bonuses and crit chances. You have to learn how to play with each class you are grouped with. Thats how this game is designed. Lets see When grouped with my friend who is the Knight I I run consistantly with a +25% damage with 2 handers and bump up to 55% damage bonus after a taunt which I always use just before I use ether dance. 5 hits in 3 seconds (not counting auto attacks) with plus 55% damage on each they are also Perfect balance moves which I get a plus 20% chance to crit on each hit however with him in the group that bumps up to +40% chance to crit on each hit! I usually hit with each hit for around 500 damage per swing spirit damage(which I have already debuffed on my target.) however usually 3 of those hits end up as criticals causing me to do roughly 1k on the crits usually causing well over 4k in damage not to mention the fact that I auto attack and they will get the plus 40% crit chance and 55% damage increase as well. I have watched myself in the first 6 seconds of a battle do over 7k damage as a tank, and most people think SMs are one of the weaker tanks in the game.
This is just one example of learning synergy. Which is what this game is all about. One class alone doesnt bring all that to the table it is classes learning to play together that do.
I find this post very well thought out and a good read. I agreed with about 90% of it. I disagreed with the character customization aspect. To me, the whole mastery tree seems so simple and weak, not complex and big. Then again, the other half of the customization is the reknown side and if they give more versatile ways of earning reknown (PQs and such) then this might make it a bit more complex. Right now it isn't though. My Archmage feels like every other archmage out there.
But yes, the PVE aspect, while the PQs are great, no one runs them so they sit unused and wasted. AI is ATROCIOUS. Talk about dumbed down. I actually find it hard to level past 20, because it seems all cut and paste with each new zone. NOthing really stands out for me in each, as it's all the same. Rinse and repeat over and over. Even running scenarios has the same feel. It is THIS which is killing the game. It has potential, but without changing these large issues I don't see it utilizing that potential.
Another side note, small to some, HUGE to me. Music. Recently there has been more music. But each stinking zone, depending on race has the same stinking music. One of the things I love about WoW, LOTRO, EQ2 and AoC is that each zone has its own music and feel to it. WAR does not have this. If they changed this one aspect, I'd be more willing(not much but some) to plod through the boring PVE as I'd at least be entertained by different music and scenery.
There's good?
They screwed up and made the game too hard in the wrong places and too easy in the wrong places, and released it 60% finished.
Good news is now that its been 10 months or so since release the game is now 90% complete... bad news is that 50-60% of the original playerbase is gone and 90% of that 60% will never come back even if they give away the farm.
I play more than casually i quit with 4 40s 3 in full sentinel all renown rank 40+... in the time it took me to make the 3 alts and get them to 40 and renown rank them all up they still did not create anything productive to do.
I agree with cybertrucker, the PVE in this game needs a major tune up. They either need to make quests give you renown too or they should make quests give you a whole lot more experience and let you lvl faster. I have also noticed how dumb the mobs seem. I can walk up to a group of them and easily pull them one by one. Despite these few downfalls I am loving Warhammer.
RVR IS AWESOME!
Mr. Bagguns
There are alot of things they need to change but overall its still a fun game to play.
One thing I will mention is about elite mobs, you would normally think they would drop better loot but its the same standard loot most times. No extra silver or anything.
The bad news is... that 10% that's not complete?
That's still the endgame with queing, some crashing and lockouts. And AION is releasing very, very soon.
Warhammer is the proverbial "No news is good news" born true these days. Even LOTD doesn't sound like things are going good. Huge amounts of complaints it seems.
Mythic just released this as the top five priorities:
Having client and server stability as the #2 issue you need to fix 10 months out is bad. Very bad.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Fantastic, unbiased review by a non-WOWtroll? Incredible!
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.