If you don't enjoy levelling, don't play RPG's. That IS the game. What are you wanting to be max level for? That's when the game ends. Don't tell me raids, PvP, or other nonsense. The journey IS the game, and if u find it boring, play an FPS, or RTS. Stop whining about levelling. your half right...an rpg is about advancing your character, however your talking about enjoying for example 1-49th level in a 50 level rpg. all the equipment etc youve collected becomes obsolete at 50 so taking your time enjoying the grind and equipment farming that is going to become obsolete is a waste of time. the object truely is get to 50 because that is really when the game actually begins 1-49 is a end to a new beginning. thanks for your input though i appreciate you chiming in your .0002 cent and declaring me a whiner when all i have made is solid valid points.
Ok per your example you have reached level 50 you will get no more skills, levels, talents, or even better equipement from now on out. How is that exactly when "The Game actually begins"? What exactly then is there left to look forward too a month or 2 of top end contentand then just do the same content again and again and again? gee and you say the level grind is boring?
Fortunately for the rest of us you forgot one important thing. fairly soon after you hit 50 (if the designers are any good) The level cap will be raised to 60 or higher to prevent the game from dying of stagnantion. So in effect the game will always be about the journey and you my friend will never be happy unless the developers basically say ok this is it max level XX we aren't doing anything more or developing this game any further! (ie the end)
I think the problem is here your not looking at all angles and really thinking things through. it really sounds like your so busy trying to get to the top that you missed the point and are more then alittle burnt out because developers keep raising Caps preventing you from being Most uber end game guy for any real length of time. My apologies if that came across harsh.
Don't feel bad i remember reading abunch of angry WoW players complaining when the first expansion came out and they had to start grinding for the Phat loot again. (Somehow they thought once they maxed out in the original they would just always be at max?)
IMO and yes it is just my opinion, once a game stops having goals to aim for (ie you are max level, have the best gear, skills maxed out seen/done all the cool content at least once etc.) the game is over. Of course i've seen others whose idea of fun is standing on top of a mail box in a crowded town in thier uber gear dancing. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
at level cap the game begins for me because normally im playing a pvp server or a game with talent point or skill progression post level cap like eq2 etc.
your half right...an rpg is about advancing your character, however your talking about enjoying for example 1-49th level in a 50 level rpg. all the equipment etc youve collected becomes obsolete at 50 so taking your time enjoying the grind and equipment farming that is going to become obsolete is a waste of time. the object truely is get to 50 because that is really when the game actually begins 1-49 is a end to a new beginning. thanks for your input though i appreciate you chiming in your .0002 cent and declaring me a whiner when all i have made is solid valid points.
And what do you do after you reach max level? You grind for equipment upgrades. And what happens to those equipment upgrades? They become obsolete when new content is released or as soon as you are able to start grinding for the next set of upgrades.
If you don't like leveling up but you do like grinding for equipment upgrades you should be asking for a game that has no levels but just has equipment progression. If you don't like equipment progression either you should be asking for game that has no progression at all.
It's been a long time since I've been able to stick with a mmorpg all the way to max level (even with the incredibly fast leveling they have these days) but it has nothing to do with the leveling being too slow. It's because I don't like the gameplay. It's not fun for me. I don't give a flying f-ck about showing off my max level toon or bragging about all the phat lewt I have, if I'm not having fun none of that crap matters to me at all.
And honestly I think that part of the problem with the gameplay is a product of the fast leveling model we have these days. In order to provide such fast leveling everything has to be quick and easy. There can't be any death penalty. You are led around by the nose and told exactly what to do. It has to be all solo or so heavily weighted towards soloing that it's pointless to try to play it any other way. It's all an anti-social rush to the end and then what? Then it's a miserable, petty, bickering gear grind with your in-game boss yelling at you over vent. No thanks. I don't play just to get to the end and if the journey to the end isn't any fun then what's the point of playing at all?
OP a what DEV's do you think will come here to read these posts? Just a thought
seeing as this is one of the if not the largest mmo chat communitys i would guess alot..........you see all the advertisement on the pages as you cruise the forum they werent sponsored by players.......................
...and what game took 5 hours to level killing the same mob? Im guessing this is an exageration.
The exaggeration is in that it is the exception not the norm, but there are several MMOs where it can take 5 hours or longer to make a level. I think in the high 70's (85 is cap) a Lineage 2 player probably is looking at gaining about 3% of a level per hour.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
How many of you on here do the same im guessing theres alot of us that are the people who find grinding the same mob for 5 hours to get 1 level doesnt sound exciting.
Have not played an mmo that took me 6 months to level to cap. Also I have yet to quit an mmo if I haven't played atleast one character to level cap. Basically I disagree with your points, and what game took 5 hours to level killing the same mob? Im guessing this is an exageration.
Not at all. In Lineage 2 you can, if you are so inclined stay in the same hunting ground for many levels. Especially if it gives good exp. I was at one place for an extremely long time... 5 levels I think? Forsaken plain. One could try to find another place but sometimes certain areas are crowded a particular area works well for your class.
So not an exageration at all.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
...and what game took 5 hours to level killing the same mob? Im guessing this is an exageration.
The exaggeration is in that it is the exception not the norm, but there are several MMOs where it can take 5 hours or longer to make a level. I think in the high 70's (85 is cap) a Lineage 2 player probably is looking at gaining about 3% of a level per hour.
Everquest / Lineage 2 all can easily take 10 hours to reach the final level.
If you solo in WoW, levels can easily take over 2 hours too.
If you don't enjoy levelling, don't play RPG's. That IS the game. What are you wanting to be max level for? That's when the game ends. Don't tell me raids, PvP, or other nonsense. The journey IS the game, and if u find it boring, play an FPS, or RTS. Stop whining about levelling.
Haha, I can see you just dusting your hands saying, 'that's the end of that chapter!'
Well, I must admit, sometimes in the early years I found levelling somewhat relaxing. I also agree that the journey is just as important as the destination. It's where I made most of my in-game friends.
ALL of the game should all be FUN. You can't expect to have a game that is crappy to play until end-game, just the same as you can't have a game that is crappy at end-game. BUT, who says levelling is the way to go?
AFAIK there has been NO MMO's (with the exception of EVE) that has changed the way a character advances.
And please remember that this is a forum..It is our duty to whine!
darkfall does have a crafting system the economy is actually decent, and as for gathering its more of a grind than leveling in most mmo's
Nothing, that can even remotely be compared to what EvE Online offers, or what's ananounced for Earthrise.
Another thing, why Darkfall and Mortal Online can't be compared is, that they have multiple servers and not the single game-world for everyone that EvE Online offers.
Multiple servers split up the community. What you do is of no value to the whole game-world etc.
Don't fool yourself please.
What a MMO needs, to be attractive for several years is a "single world sandbox approach", where everything you do matters (besides questing and killing mobs).
Even the whole economy in EvE is PvP, there's nothing to be bought from NPCs besides blueprints or POS-modules. Anything you buy or sell is in direct competition to other players, where things like ressource-cost and availability counts. Holding space and harvest the available ressources in these player-controlled territories effects the whole playerbase etc.
So to make it more visible as a list, of what a MMO needs, that attracts player for more then a few month:
single world (single worldwide server)
no instances, but seemless world
open world FFA PvP, with some areas, where it's safe (police-patrolled, CONCORD in EvE)
harvestable ressources, but not like in WoW or anything like that, but real industrial harvesting like minig or moon-harvesting in EvE Online
conquestable territories, with the possibility to build your own city (industrial buildings like factories; denfensive and automated structures, to protect your territory, warehouses, etc)
player-driven economy, every item in the game is player-crafted (no item-drops from NPCs)
modifying of items, with dozens of possibilities to enhance items in one or the other direction
item-decay -> constant need of new items being produced
full loot with insurance-system (see again how it's done in EvE Online)
faction-standings that determine which NPCs will shoot you and which not, with the possibility to change sides
open skill-system, that let's you train everything you want (crafting- and combat-skills alike)
equipment-limited use of skills, you can change your role and be a melee today or a sniper tomorrow, but you can't do it all at the same time
That's only for starters and not in detail, but that's far from what Darkfall or MO are offering.
Will this attract millions of players? Maybe not, but as EvE Online prooves, it is attracting enough of players to make a succesful MMO.
Will people stay longer then the usual few month? Definately YES, as it doesn't get boring once you've hit end-game. These kind of games actually start getting interesting, once you hit end-game.
While a game like that would be great, it's just too expensive to build with current technology if it is a classic mmo, that is an mmo with a player avatar in a fully fledged fantasy world. Eve Online can pull it off because its world is basically empty. They could be adding new star systems every day with minimal work, worrying only about balance issues. That's not the case when you have to design and texture the whole world. But hopefully one day, Eve will be translated to a more accessible setting.
Go check out Earthrise, it has all the stuff I mentioned there.
Atleast they announced it to be this way and from what the Devs keep saying in the forums, it seems to be like announced.
However, I'm not sure, if they are going with a single server. It seems, that they're aiming for one server per continent atm. But that's good enough for me aswell.
For someone who looks for an FPS-style MMO, this won't cut it, I'll give you that, but Earthrise was never announced to be a shooter, but having RPG-mechanics.
darkfall does have a crafting system the economy is actually decent, and as for gathering its more of a grind than leveling in most mmo's
Nothing, that can even remotely be compared to what EvE Online offers, or what's ananounced for Earthrise.
Another thing, why Darkfall and Mortal Online can't be compared is, that they have multiple servers and not the single game-world for everyone that EvE Online offers.
Multiple servers split up the community. What you do is of no value to the whole game-world etc.
Don't fool yourself please.
What a MMO needs, to be attractive for several years is a "single world sandbox approach", where everything you do matters (besides questing and killing mobs).
Even the whole economy in EvE is PvP, there's nothing to be bought from NPCs besides blueprints or POS-modules. Anything you buy or sell is in direct competition to other players, where things like ressource-cost and availability counts. Holding space and harvest the available ressources in these player-controlled territories effects the whole playerbase etc.
So to make it more visible as a list, of what a MMO needs, that attracts player for more then a few month:
single world (single worldwide server)
no instances, but seemless world
open world FFA PvP, with some areas, where it's safe (police-patrolled, CONCORD in EvE)
harvestable ressources, but not like in WoW or anything like that, but real industrial harvesting like minig or moon-harvesting in EvE Online
conquestable territories, with the possibility to build your own city (industrial buildings like factories; denfensive and automated structures, to protect your territory, warehouses, etc)
player-driven economy, every item in the game is player-crafted (no item-drops from NPCs)
modifying of items, with dozens of possibilities to enhance items in one or the other direction
item-decay -> constant need of new items being produced
full loot with insurance-system (see again how it's done in EvE Online)
faction-standings that determine which NPCs will shoot you and which not, with the possibility to change sides
open skill-system, that let's you train everything you want (crafting- and combat-skills alike)
equipment-limited use of skills, you can change your role and be a melee today or a sniper tomorrow, but you can't do it all at the same time
That's only for starters and not in detail, but that's far from what Darkfall or MO are offering.
Will this attract millions of players? Maybe not, but as EvE Online prooves, it is attracting enough of players to make a succesful MMO.
Will people stay longer then the usual few month? Definately YES, as it doesn't get boring once you've hit end-game. These kind of games actually start getting interesting, once you hit end-game.
While a game like that would be great, it's just too expensive to build with current technology if it is a classic mmo, that is an mmo with a player avatar in a fully fledged fantasy world. Eve Online can pull it off because its world is basically empty. They could be adding new star systems every day with minimal work, worrying only about balance issues. That's not the case when you have to design and texture the whole world. But hopefully one day, Eve will be translated to a more accessible setting.
Well except for ffa pvp I could enjoy that. I hear ffa pvp I think great a whole game of people who at one point in time I have either put in prison or at least arrested.
It's not the MMO developers' faults you have a short attention span. Also, no modern MMOs take 6 months to get to max level... perhaps you're just not that good a player.
I sympathize with the OP. Here you have the OP suggesting something, and people crap on him for it. I've read these posts, and can say as a casual player (I spend more time on this site than playing), the OP's point is valid. I play LotR right now, and have been for two months. I am level 17. I'm enjoying the game a lot. But, I know that once i hit level 30, the experience will begin to creep to halt simply because I don't put in three hours of game time a night. I like to take my time, explore, do one quest at a time to get into the story. Nothing more. It's fun for me that way.
As far as implementing the OP's idea, why not have one dedicated server for it. The others can level normally. Let people who like to play two or three hours a week experience the big fights. Also concerning implementation, I can think of no other game that would be better served for this than DDO. I have gone back to that game three times because I like its ideas and system. However, I never go above fifth level. I cannot stomach doing the same dungeon over and over and over just to level. It's ridiculous. (I know there are some naysayers out there who will say otherwise, but yes - you DO have to repeat dungeons over and over to level.)
Lastly, I think when Guild Wars came out, both my friend and I reached level 20 (max at the time) rather quickly. In one month or so. It certainly didn't hurt our experience with the game. In fact, just as the OP said, I believe it rather enhanced it and made me want to play more.
For me personally, levelling is the part of a MMORPG that I most enjoy. However I do think that the vast majority of MMO players (though not on this forum) would prefer to see faster levelling and more end-game as the OP suggests.
However, it also seems to me that the majority of MMO players would actually prefer to be playing some form of gear based MMOFPS rather than a MMORPG.
I hate games, where it's all about grinding for the best epic items. That's the worst thing ever done in MMOs.
Provide us with a decent skill-system instead, that let's us choose and modify our abilities out of hundreds available possibilities instead. That's what guarantees unique characters.
If you don't enjoy levelling, don't play RPG's. That IS the game. What are you wanting to be max level for? That's when the game ends. Don't tell me raids, PvP, or other nonsense. The journey IS the game, and if u find it boring, play an FPS, or RTS. Stop whining about levelling.
Sometimes I think these games are not the games they are enjoying so they come up with all these "fixes" to the game. If you don't like a game or a type of game move on.
What is it with mmo creators that they dont realize why people quit their games? most mmo's out there are actually pretty fun, that is until you reach about 1/3 to 1/2 way through their leveling system. How many games have you quit or rerolled 2-5 times once you reach levels 20-25? It may seem like a different reason for each game but overall it really the same reason the level grind becomes mindless grinding doesnt matter what game you play their system varies only in how many quests they cram in throughout to lessen the mob grind.
You've pretty much described my entire history of playing MMOs. There's two things I wonder, though...
1) are you and I in the majority or minority? I'm thikning the latter as wehenver I join an MMO, almost everyone in the guild I am in has no problem leveling to the cap and even getting there before I am even half way.
2) even if the leveling was accelerated, would I still be playing more than the 6-9 months? I mean, maybe that's just the point we get to when we are sick of the game, and the level ceiling we are hitting is just an incidental result of the playstyle. If after 6 months I'm going to be moving on anyway, no level change would fix that.
I would prefer a more shallow leveling curve.
I will grind mobs a little bit longer at level 1, if you will let me grind mobs a lot less to get from level 49 to level 50.
It's when everything is nothing more than +1 that it gets hard to keep going.
At first you get new abilities. Wow, I can fly now, or do an area effect spell, or use weapons two handed, etc. That was worth grinding for a week or two.
But grinding for a month to get area effect spell +1, flying +1, two handed weapon +1? Gets boring really fast.
AFAIK there has been NO MMO's (with the exception of EVE) that has changed the way a character advances.
UO has learn by doing and even had learning just by being near someone who is doing.
Puzzle Pirates (Y!PP) has player skill based advancement. Whereas in most MMOs you can suck at bashing rats but as long as you kill them, you'll advance in level, in Y!PP, unless you get better at the task you are doing, you will never increase your rank. I'd say Y!PP has about the most hardcore advancement system out there... and its players sem to be mostly Moms and kids.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The good thing with EvE Onlines skill-system is, that you train up your skills in real-time without having to be online doing something. This favours all those, who don't got alot of time to play.
I like this very much, allthough I've got tons of time to play. Usually playing 40+ hours a week. But this system let's me play other games aswell inbetween, without falling back in advancement.
The system of UO is also a nice one, and basically I favour any system that is skill-based.
Leveling your 3rd to toon to LvL80 in WoW or any game like this is really the maximum of boredom a game can provide, which is why I quit eventually, after I cleared the content and got full T7.5 equipment for my first two toons.
I tried resubbing, when Ulduar went live, but I really couldn't be bothered to do so.
I agree totally. I highly enjoy going and finding new places on lotro. I am currently playing it also and am liking it alot. However lvling is also a very fun thing that i enjoy almost as much as exploring.. I think the best mmorpg game is the blend of both of these concepts. But I like LOTRO alot.. have been enjoying it alot.
darkfall and mortal online both have your idea in use and on the way also and what ends up happening is everyone maxes all skills and everyone is the same. people all chose the cookie cutter skill model best for the game and everyone ends up playing the same way doing the same thing basically a fps style game with a longer leveling curve, it fits some people but the model is flawed read some posts on the darkfall forums its probably the most entertaining forums around.
Darkfall or Mortal Online don't even have 50% of the things in use I was talking about there.
They're FPS-style games without any content then killing each other.
No economy, no crafting-system, no ressource-gathering (big style!) no nothing.
Maybe that's true for Darkfall but it ceirtainly isn't true for Mortal Online. In Mortal Online you can have a career of only being a crafter, for instance there are over 200 MILLION weapons you can craft and some rediculous number of armour - I think it was 20*10^20.
no offense... but what is with people who actually WANT TO LEVEL? That just seems ludicrous to me. There is an argument that hardcore gamers should have a clear advantage over casual yada yada yada, but NO ONE should want longer leveling times. Leveling/grinding is almost NEVER fun. This is coming from a hardcore gamer. The only reason people do this is so they can have a clear cut advantage over people who don't play as much as them, even when they alreadyd o considering the better ger they get from playing more often.
Leveling has been boring in every single MMO I have ever played, and I think most people agree. Endgame is where the fun starts and ends, nobody wants to have to grind to get there.
Comments
Ok per your example you have reached level 50 you will get no more skills, levels, talents, or even better equipement from now on out. How is that exactly when "The Game actually begins"? What exactly then is there left to look forward too a month or 2 of top end contentand then just do the same content again and again and again? gee and you say the level grind is boring?
Fortunately for the rest of us you forgot one important thing. fairly soon after you hit 50 (if the designers are any good) The level cap will be raised to 60 or higher to prevent the game from dying of stagnantion. So in effect the game will always be about the journey and you my friend will never be happy unless the developers basically say ok this is it max level XX we aren't doing anything more or developing this game any further! (ie the end)
I think the problem is here your not looking at all angles and really thinking things through. it really sounds like your so busy trying to get to the top that you missed the point and are more then alittle burnt out because developers keep raising Caps preventing you from being Most uber end game guy for any real length of time. My apologies if that came across harsh.
Don't feel bad i remember reading abunch of angry WoW players complaining when the first expansion came out and they had to start grinding for the Phat loot again. (Somehow they thought once they maxed out in the original they would just always be at max?)
IMO and yes it is just my opinion, once a game stops having goals to aim for (ie you are max level, have the best gear, skills maxed out seen/done all the cool content at least once etc.) the game is over. Of course i've seen others whose idea of fun is standing on top of a mail box in a crowded town in thier uber gear dancing. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
at level cap the game begins for me because normally im playing a pvp server or a game with talent point or skill progression post level cap like eq2 etc.
OP a what DEV's do you think will come here to read these posts? Just a thought
And what do you do after you reach max level? You grind for equipment upgrades. And what happens to those equipment upgrades? They become obsolete when new content is released or as soon as you are able to start grinding for the next set of upgrades.
If you don't like leveling up but you do like grinding for equipment upgrades you should be asking for a game that has no levels but just has equipment progression. If you don't like equipment progression either you should be asking for game that has no progression at all.
It's been a long time since I've been able to stick with a mmorpg all the way to max level (even with the incredibly fast leveling they have these days) but it has nothing to do with the leveling being too slow. It's because I don't like the gameplay. It's not fun for me. I don't give a flying f-ck about showing off my max level toon or bragging about all the phat lewt I have, if I'm not having fun none of that crap matters to me at all.
And honestly I think that part of the problem with the gameplay is a product of the fast leveling model we have these days. In order to provide such fast leveling everything has to be quick and easy. There can't be any death penalty. You are led around by the nose and told exactly what to do. It has to be all solo or so heavily weighted towards soloing that it's pointless to try to play it any other way. It's all an anti-social rush to the end and then what? Then it's a miserable, petty, bickering gear grind with your in-game boss yelling at you over vent. No thanks. I don't play just to get to the end and if the journey to the end isn't any fun then what's the point of playing at all?
seeing as this is one of the if not the largest mmo chat communitys i would guess alot..........you see all the advertisement on the pages as you cruise the forum they werent sponsored by players.......................
The exaggeration is in that it is the exception not the norm, but there are several MMOs where it can take 5 hours or longer to make a level. I think in the high 70's (85 is cap) a Lineage 2 player probably is looking at gaining about 3% of a level per hour.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Have not played an mmo that took me 6 months to level to cap. Also I have yet to quit an mmo if I haven't played atleast one character to level cap. Basically I disagree with your points, and what game took 5 hours to level killing the same mob? Im guessing this is an exageration.
Not at all. In Lineage 2 you can, if you are so inclined stay in the same hunting ground for many levels. Especially if it gives good exp. I was at one place for an extremely long time... 5 levels I think? Forsaken plain. One could try to find another place but sometimes certain areas are crowded a particular area works well for your class.
So not an exageration at all.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The exaggeration is in that it is the exception not the norm, but there are several MMOs where it can take 5 hours or longer to make a level. I think in the high 70's (85 is cap) a Lineage 2 player probably is looking at gaining about 3% of a level per hour.
Everquest / Lineage 2 all can easily take 10 hours to reach the final level.
If you solo in WoW, levels can easily take over 2 hours too.
Haha, I can see you just dusting your hands saying, 'that's the end of that chapter!'
Well, I must admit, sometimes in the early years I found levelling somewhat relaxing. I also agree that the journey is just as important as the destination. It's where I made most of my in-game friends.
ALL of the game should all be FUN. You can't expect to have a game that is crappy to play until end-game, just the same as you can't have a game that is crappy at end-game. BUT, who says levelling is the way to go?
AFAIK there has been NO MMO's (with the exception of EVE) that has changed the way a character advances.
And please remember that this is a forum..It is our duty to whine!
Nothing, that can even remotely be compared to what EvE Online offers, or what's ananounced for Earthrise.
Another thing, why Darkfall and Mortal Online can't be compared is, that they have multiple servers and not the single game-world for everyone that EvE Online offers.
Multiple servers split up the community. What you do is of no value to the whole game-world etc.
Don't fool yourself please.
What a MMO needs, to be attractive for several years is a "single world sandbox approach", where everything you do matters (besides questing and killing mobs).
Even the whole economy in EvE is PvP, there's nothing to be bought from NPCs besides blueprints or POS-modules. Anything you buy or sell is in direct competition to other players, where things like ressource-cost and availability counts. Holding space and harvest the available ressources in these player-controlled territories effects the whole playerbase etc.
So to make it more visible as a list, of what a MMO needs, that attracts player for more then a few month:
That's only for starters and not in detail, but that's far from what Darkfall or MO are offering.
Will this attract millions of players? Maybe not, but as EvE Online prooves, it is attracting enough of players to make a succesful MMO.
Will people stay longer then the usual few month? Definately YES, as it doesn't get boring once you've hit end-game. These kind of games actually start getting interesting, once you hit end-game.
While a game like that would be great, it's just too expensive to build with current technology if it is a classic mmo, that is an mmo with a player avatar in a fully fledged fantasy world. Eve Online can pull it off because its world is basically empty. They could be adding new star systems every day with minimal work, worrying only about balance issues. That's not the case when you have to design and texture the whole world. But hopefully one day, Eve will be translated to a more accessible setting.
Go check out Earthrise, it has all the stuff I mentioned there.
Atleast they announced it to be this way and from what the Devs keep saying in the forums, it seems to be like announced.
However, I'm not sure, if they are going with a single server. It seems, that they're aiming for one server per continent atm. But that's good enough for me aswell.
For those praising Earthrise.
Dont forget one big thing:
SERVER SIDED TWITCH GAMEPLAY.
If you know the difference between server sided twitch gameplay and client based twitch gameplay.
Not many people, even amongst the veterans know it, so dont feel ashamed to ask and search what it is.
If you dont know, good luck and have fun haha.
For someone who looks for an FPS-style MMO, this won't cut it, I'll give you that, but Earthrise was never announced to be a shooter, but having RPG-mechanics.
Nothing, that can even remotely be compared to what EvE Online offers, or what's ananounced for Earthrise.
Another thing, why Darkfall and Mortal Online can't be compared is, that they have multiple servers and not the single game-world for everyone that EvE Online offers.
Multiple servers split up the community. What you do is of no value to the whole game-world etc.
Don't fool yourself please.
What a MMO needs, to be attractive for several years is a "single world sandbox approach", where everything you do matters (besides questing and killing mobs).
Even the whole economy in EvE is PvP, there's nothing to be bought from NPCs besides blueprints or POS-modules. Anything you buy or sell is in direct competition to other players, where things like ressource-cost and availability counts. Holding space and harvest the available ressources in these player-controlled territories effects the whole playerbase etc.
So to make it more visible as a list, of what a MMO needs, that attracts player for more then a few month:
That's only for starters and not in detail, but that's far from what Darkfall or MO are offering.
Will this attract millions of players? Maybe not, but as EvE Online prooves, it is attracting enough of players to make a succesful MMO.
Will people stay longer then the usual few month? Definately YES, as it doesn't get boring once you've hit end-game. These kind of games actually start getting interesting, once you hit end-game.
While a game like that would be great, it's just too expensive to build with current technology if it is a classic mmo, that is an mmo with a player avatar in a fully fledged fantasy world. Eve Online can pull it off because its world is basically empty. They could be adding new star systems every day with minimal work, worrying only about balance issues. That's not the case when you have to design and texture the whole world. But hopefully one day, Eve will be translated to a more accessible setting.
Well except for ffa pvp I could enjoy that. I hear ffa pvp I think great a whole game of people who at one point in time I have either put in prison or at least arrested.
I sympathize with the OP. Here you have the OP suggesting something, and people crap on him for it. I've read these posts, and can say as a casual player (I spend more time on this site than playing), the OP's point is valid. I play LotR right now, and have been for two months. I am level 17. I'm enjoying the game a lot. But, I know that once i hit level 30, the experience will begin to creep to halt simply because I don't put in three hours of game time a night. I like to take my time, explore, do one quest at a time to get into the story. Nothing more. It's fun for me that way.
As far as implementing the OP's idea, why not have one dedicated server for it. The others can level normally. Let people who like to play two or three hours a week experience the big fights. Also concerning implementation, I can think of no other game that would be better served for this than DDO. I have gone back to that game three times because I like its ideas and system. However, I never go above fifth level. I cannot stomach doing the same dungeon over and over and over just to level. It's ridiculous. (I know there are some naysayers out there who will say otherwise, but yes - you DO have to repeat dungeons over and over to level.)
Lastly, I think when Guild Wars came out, both my friend and I reached level 20 (max at the time) rather quickly. In one month or so. It certainly didn't hurt our experience with the game. In fact, just as the OP said, I believe it rather enhanced it and made me want to play more.
Agreed at this point the only games that will be real successful will be those that minimize leveling and maximize endgame content.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
For me personally, levelling is the part of a MMORPG that I most enjoy. However I do think that the vast majority of MMO players (though not on this forum) would prefer to see faster levelling and more end-game as the OP suggests.
However, it also seems to me that the majority of MMO players would actually prefer to be playing some form of gear based MMOFPS rather than a MMORPG.
Gear based?!? Please NOOOOO!!!
I hate games, where it's all about grinding for the best epic items. That's the worst thing ever done in MMOs.
Provide us with a decent skill-system instead, that let's us choose and modify our abilities out of hundreds available possibilities instead. That's what guarantees unique characters.
Sometimes I think these games are not the games they are enjoying so they come up with all these "fixes" to the game. If you don't like a game or a type of game move on.
You've pretty much described my entire history of playing MMOs.
There's two things I wonder, though...
1) are you and I in the majority or minority? I'm thikning the latter as wehenver I join an MMO, almost everyone in the guild I am in has no problem leveling to the cap and even getting there before I am even half way.
2) even if the leveling was accelerated, would I still be playing more than the 6-9 months? I mean, maybe that's just the point we get to when we are sick of the game, and the level ceiling we are hitting is just an incidental result of the playstyle. If after 6 months I'm going to be moving on anyway, no level change would fix that.
I would prefer a more shallow leveling curve.
I will grind mobs a little bit longer at level 1, if you will let me grind mobs a lot less to get from level 49 to level 50.
It's when everything is nothing more than +1 that it gets hard to keep going.
At first you get new abilities. Wow, I can fly now, or do an area effect spell, or use weapons two handed, etc. That was worth grinding for a week or two.
But grinding for a month to get area effect spell +1, flying +1, two handed weapon +1? Gets boring really fast.
UO has learn by doing and even had learning just by being near someone who is doing.
Puzzle Pirates (Y!PP) has player skill based advancement. Whereas in most MMOs you can suck at bashing rats but as long as you kill them, you'll advance in level, in Y!PP, unless you get better at the task you are doing, you will never increase your rank. I'd say Y!PP has about the most hardcore advancement system out there... and its players sem to be mostly Moms and kids.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The good thing with EvE Onlines skill-system is, that you train up your skills in real-time without having to be online doing something. This favours all those, who don't got alot of time to play.
I like this very much, allthough I've got tons of time to play. Usually playing 40+ hours a week. But this system let's me play other games aswell inbetween, without falling back in advancement.
The system of UO is also a nice one, and basically I favour any system that is skill-based.
Leveling your 3rd to toon to LvL80 in WoW or any game like this is really the maximum of boredom a game can provide, which is why I quit eventually, after I cleared the content and got full T7.5 equipment for my first two toons.
I tried resubbing, when Ulduar went live, but I really couldn't be bothered to do so.
I agree totally. I highly enjoy going and finding new places on lotro. I am currently playing it also and am liking it alot. However lvling is also a very fun thing that i enjoy almost as much as exploring.. I think the best mmorpg game is the blend of both of these concepts. But I like LOTRO alot.. have been enjoying it alot.
Andrew Kody Johnston
They are very awake, but short sighted:
Darkfall or Mortal Online don't even have 50% of the things in use I was talking about there.
They're FPS-style games without any content then killing each other.
No economy, no crafting-system, no ressource-gathering (big style!) no nothing.
You should really have a look at http://www.play-earthrise.com/ to know what kind of sandbox MMO I'm talking about.
Maybe that's true for Darkfall but it ceirtainly isn't true for Mortal Online. In Mortal Online you can have a career of only being a crafter, for instance there are over 200 MILLION weapons you can craft and some rediculous number of armour - I think it was 20*10^20.
no offense... but what is with people who actually WANT TO LEVEL? That just seems ludicrous to me. There is an argument that hardcore gamers should have a clear advantage over casual yada yada yada, but NO ONE should want longer leveling times. Leveling/grinding is almost NEVER fun. This is coming from a hardcore gamer. The only reason people do this is so they can have a clear cut advantage over people who don't play as much as them, even when they alreadyd o considering the better ger they get from playing more often.
Leveling has been boring in every single MMO I have ever played, and I think most people agree. Endgame is where the fun starts and ends, nobody wants to have to grind to get there.