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Taking Risks- Why MMOs are "failing!"
SpittDragons
Member Posts: 3
Taking Risks
(Gaining Footing in a Cornered Genre)
MMORPG games have become the high school valedictorian that decided it didn’t need college. What happened? How did we get to this point? Long before the huge success of World of Warcraft, there were smaller but more “hardcore” games. Without arguing the validity of the word hardcore, lets simply state that they were very difficult for players that could not dedicate massive amounts of play time. Everquest was the first big title in the MMO genre and it was a great game for what it was meant to be. In time the game began to lose quality as level caps increased, gear itemization began to exceed intended stats and content become repetitive. Sony knew what was happening but not having the experience or past examples to follow, it was out of their hands. So Sony began their second project which they had hoped would not be a duplicate of the first, however the name had so much clout that Sony named the project Everquest 2.
Shortly after the fall of Everquest many titles were released copying the fantasy world and basic ideas put forth by Everquests example. One of those titles would take
the MMO genre to a new level. Streamlining the genre into a fresh smoother version. This was all good and fair, but the side effects that World of Warcraft had on the MMO industry have been felt since. The truth is that Blizzard followed the money trail and no one can blame them, it has paid off big time. Now boasting 11 million active accounts World of Warcraft will not be touched for the top grossing game ever.
But there in lies the problem, gaming companies have wasted an insane amount of money on similar MMO games, taking many things that Blizzard has done and attempting to pull players into their own versions. However no one wants to play a clone of another game unless it offers something new. Warhammer Online carved a niche of their own by catering to the PvP crowd. However most of the content was World of Warcraft ideas built upon with slight improvements, then those ideas were pasted over a weak framework. In fact 90% of the new games being released are just the same tired out ideas with slight improvements. This is the reason that so many MMO games have failed, and that failure has left the companies with the ability to do better way too MMO shy to try.
The problem is very clear, but regardless companies are unable to break the self destructive pattern of failed clones of WoW. What was from the first instance a grand platform for gaming has been funneled into a narrow view of the bigger picture. Where is the Pokemon MMO, the first person shooter MMO, or even the fantasy based MMO with a brand new system from start to finish. Why can’t we see an MMO game with no levels where a new player is on an even playing field with a veteran of the game? Why can’t we have a reactive fighting system that doesn’t rely on stats, critical hits, auto attack, and percent based combat?
Worst of all is that despite WoW’s massive player base, the game is in a state of constant dumbing down. This is partly to bring in more casual players and partly because WoW is on it’s way out. Blizzard knows that like Everquest, WoW is slowly imploding in the same way, gear stats are out of control, gold farming is destroying the games economy, and content is too easy for gamers and too hard for casuals. So it goes, the level cap increases and the grind begins again. Blizzards biggest problem is their saying that goes; “There is no such thing as too much power!” That attitude has given WoW the worst PvP balance of any MMO to date. This is not a shot at Blizzard or World of Warcraft, but as a long time fan of Blizzard Games and near 10 year Veteran of MMO games of all shapes and sizes, I am sadly disappointed with the current direction of the genre. The fact that WoW is on top makes them an easy target, I’m in no way attempting to belittle Blizzards MMO games. But there is a real issue with the current state of MMO games and something needs to be done.
So what is the solution? That’s the question all Gaming Companies, both big and small, should be asking themselves. However the answer that everyone should come to is take a risk. The future of the MMO genre has been going one direction for nearly 10 years but the straight path it follows comes to a brick wall and we are nearly there. Currently those games that attempt to copy, mimic or compete with World of Warcraft are failing horribly, and still gaming companies refuse to take “risks” on truly innovative games, because they are afraid to sink money into games that are not similar to WoW.
I should note that I have no game developing experience and that everything I am saying is either factual data or opinion, in fact what I’m about to say is all opinion. I believe that the solution to the current MMO slump is breaking the mold and taking huge risks on games nothing like current fantasy MMO games.
These are a few of the things I would like to see the MMO genre attempt to do.
- Attempt an MMO with no levels that is balanced and still has some form of progression.
- Attempt a collection MMO similar to Pokemon where players collect and battle with other creatures.
- Attempt an MMO in first person shooter set in space or WW3 setting.
- Create Feudal Japan setting rather than the middle age old english knights settings.
- Attempt a MMO game with out stats on gear.
- Attempt a game with 3 types of content each as rewarding as the other. Hardcore Core and Casual.
I am not asking for gaming companies to try it all at once, and by no means do I think that these are the best ideas out there or that this list is complete. Not to mention that you need to pump 3 times the money into these games as current MMO challangers do. You can search gaming site all over the internet. Every player from Asia to America has ideas, some of which are wonderful and others terrible. But that’s the idea, MMO games are full of endless possibilities and the more ideas you gather good or bad the better chance the genre has of surviving. Keeping in mind that rather than spending 25 million developing a game that will get a small following you will spend 75 million developing a game that could gain a bigger following. Why take small risks on games that can't match WoW? Take one huge risk on a game that can surpass WoW!
In the end if nothing changes then the next generation MMO will be whatever Blizzard decides to do next. They have learned from their mistakes and they know how to bring in the masses, if nothing else they have the money to make a huge mistake and still bounce back. If the genre comes down to who takes the bigger risks it is guaranteed that Blizzard will corner the MMO market for the next 10 years and while that is not necessarily a bad thing, it is a truly sad prospect that one group will control where we go from here.
Comments
Taking risks in the MMO industry are, well, risky. I mean part of the current problem is that MMORPGs take an obscene amount of time and money to develop, and if your game is a flop then nothing that can help you. It's not even like single player games where you may at least get back some revenue from single purchases because as an MMO you're going to have to count on people actually paying a subscription, or else your game will tank and you'll be fucked.
That being said I think we're starting to see some interesting things coming out. I do think the industry has realized that some of the current conceptions of an MMO just aren't working out, the problem of course is how to do it.
Here's my take on each of your ideas:
I wrote my thoughts on this a bit in another thread, but I think an MMO could very easily go to an achievement based progression system. The easiest way to compare this would be to look at the game Team Fortress 2, because essentially is has what you are asking for -- just in a smaller package and in FPS form. Not only do you have a class based game (which this idea could be translated into a sandbox easily) but you have one with various unlocks that also don't unbalance the game at all. (in fact, TF2 is probably one of the best balanced fps's out right now).
For those that don't know, the way the system works is that unlocks are based around achievements. (there are timed unlocks too, but we'll ignore that for now) What happens is that you'll hit a milestone in unlocks in which you'll be granted the weapon for that milestone. These weapons aren't more or less powerful versions, instead they are only meant for different situations. Like if you're a sniper, and are worried about getting backstabbed by spies? Use the razorback unlock. Or perhaps you want to get some more support as the class instead of just hanging in the back? Get jarate.
The idea is that a new player can get in the game and play on an even level as those who have all of the unlocks. On the flip side this provides character growth and progression for those who have been in the game for a while, which is perfect for an MMO (especially a PvP oriented one).
So obviously when you put this in an MMO context it would have to be much larger, and would probably be a lot more difficult to maintain. However I certainly could see it working out well, especially if the acheivements are well thought out -- it could get away from the notion of grinding.
As with most big businesses, the giants of the industry play it safe and mimic another comanies success rather that risk huge financial losses and push the envelope. However the MMO industry is not devoid of risk takers...you will find them in smaller independent games
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Aye the game I'm currently writing a proposal for is based on a set amount of Health, statless gear and a class built system where you pick one of .... well about 15 classes at the moment, but that number will likely go down. As you play the game and use abilities or see abilities used points unlock allowing you to pick up moves. After so many points unlock you have the ability to "upgrade" your class. Say you start out as a scout after so many points you can upgrade to say ranger or archer or spy there were 4 levels of basic upgrades. New moves are balanced based on the same ammount of health but some moves do more damage but take longer to preform. So an average attack might hit you for 125 damage and go off instantly, or you could use your heavy swing for 500 damage but take 3 seconds to hit. This played into the reactive system of actually having to block or dodge as an ability.
Anyway done this way players progressing up the tree do not become stronger than new players but still progress. This makes pvp excellent andskill based. As for PvE content, I think using the reactive system would allow developers to make all levels of content from solo play to raids and simply make it different and slightly harder forcing players to do more than dance around the boss and making it immpossible to just zerg bosses down.
But it is all theory at this point, a friend of mine plans to help me make a demo but it will be very rough and then I have to pitch the idea at gaming companies.
Anyway I will check out TF when I can, never heard of it prior to this may be a big help with my concept design.
Oh without a doubt, but thats the real issue. Smaller companies produce some of the best games I have ever played at least in concept, but if these big companies want a shot at Blizzards following they need to take those same risks on much larger scales.
Lots of games have already done exactly what you're asking.
There is a fine line between taking a risk and shooting your self in the head.
SOE took a risk with SWG by doing the NGE...Knowingly alienating and chucking their current playerbase for one that NEVER materialized.
This cost them thousands of paying customers and further tarnished their reputation. Not sure if you can even put a price tag on the tarnished reputation they garnered.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I agree with alot of what you're saying.
I wonder how many thousands of other players feel similarly; how many potential players there may be if a next gen mmo were made?
I wish you luck and hope your ideas get used!
I wouldn't play any of those. And yes, I do play MMORPGs, and I do give publishers my 14.95 when I find a game I like.
I don't want FPS MMO's, there are great First Person Shooters if I want to play that combat styel. Dont' want non-progression. Again, you just took out the RPG in MMO RPG.
If you don't want an MMO RPG, then sure design something else, but you're not asking for a better MMO RPG< you're asking for an MMO FPS, or MMO Trading card game, etc.
I'd rather have a better MMO RPG to play.
Lots of games have already done exactly what you're asking.
Yes, but none have incorporated the core number of ideas necessary to make the leap to the next generation of MMO.
Obviously, you don't and can't incorporate every one of the OPs ideas to make an MMO, but the poster hits upon a number of very good points that any MMO needs to tackle in order to be considered different from the current 800 lbs gorrilla in the room.
IMHO, WoW epitomizes (and if it can be considered a yardstick) in terms of income is the culmination of more than a decade of MMO evolution.
Where should MMOs go next? From reading around there seems to be certain ideas I keep noticing. To make another broad genaralization, something along the lines of EvE...(EvE certainly lacks alot of qualities that, imo, are required in an MMO, but it seems to be the closest healthy MMO I can think of.)
I hope I'm around to see it
I wouldn't play any of those. And yes, I do play MMORPGs, and I do give publishers my 14.95 when I find a game I like.
I don't want FPS MMO's, there are great First Person Shooters if I want to play that combat styel. Dont' want non-progression. Again, you just took out the RPG in MMO RPG.
If you don't want an MMO RPG, then sure design something else, but you're not asking for a better MMO RPG< you're asking for an MMO FPS, or MMO Trading card game, etc.
I'd rather have a better MMO RPG to play.
What is your idea then of a better MMO?
Keep in mind, I'm trying to get an idea of what the next generation of MMO should be like - not what a "better" MMO should be like.
In other words, I don't think the question is "How can a game like WoW be made better?", rather, "What will the next breakthrough in MMO composition be?"
Bearing that in mind, I'm wondering what would be the ingredients that a next-gen MMO would contain.
Lots of games have already done exactly what you're asking.
Most of the games you mention except Ultima and WoW haven't exactly been amazing by any stretch...and they weren't properly executed. I think this person is trying to say that he wants a well-funded, well-developed P2P model game using one of those themes in a deep world with the kind of content that will keep him or her satisfied with playing for a long period of time. I currently have yet to find an MMO which will keep me satisfied for a long period of time since Guild Wars, which even that didn't have the kind of depth that a P2P game would have had.
If we're talking about MMOs in general:
a MMORTS that is actually good.
Something like a DOTA mmo.
If we're talking about MMORPGs:
a story and character-driven mmo that actually feels meaningfull in a way.
Something like GTA4, Mass Effect, Kotor, or... well, Star Wars: The Old Republic, hopefully.
Hype train -> Reality
There are plenty of companies taking risks. But the gamers (you) are blind to them most of the time.
PotBS is a great multilayer ship based business simulator. - that was a risk. For those of you that say it was crap, compared to a single player equivalent, like Anno 1701/ 1701 AD (a highly respected game in the genre) PotBS was actually much better (imho).
The follow new games are trying something new:
Lego universe -
Build anything you want, by yourself or with other people. Explore what other people make, make your objects destructible if you wish. Purchase the legos for what you made in game, to make it in real life. One of the most innovative MMOs ever and how many of you people are going to check it out? Or are you just going to ignore it and continue to complain that nothing new is coming out?
The old republic – heavy emphasis on story with voice acted dialog, quests that give you choices.
CitiesXL – City building MMO.
The Agency – Real aiming, gear based classes.
And I'm sure there are others, I don't research every new game coming out.
New to the forums here. However I've played FFXI and WOW for years now, both offering something different. I'll offer up my opinions here to the original post, and I for me I'm very much thinking the same way. I've tried many others, Guild Wars, Warhammer, LOTRO, and many others listed on the site to get a feel for them, only to be disappointed because, one the game play and movements of the characters was crude, or it was a WoW clone with little imagination.
Something different has to happen with the MMO's. There are many themes / stories which could be turned into an MMORPG. I have a feeling these could be successful:
* a God of War era themed MMO: the backdrop for something like this where you battled Gods and Titans could be an impressive feat for players. I don't have much to elaborate, but this era is I think unexplored in the MMORPG world.
* I believe once the writter has completed the final book, the Inheritance Cycle's (Eragon book/movie) world could be an interesting one to roam around in. I think an MMORPG that would have a difinitive play time, say 3-4 years total, where the story actually unfolds around players, reguardless of level / status, in a timeline preset. Where the world and battles continue to exist and change around the player. The players who want to be part of the battles could enlist and help fight, where as casuals could be like "reserves" called upon when they login and play to go fight. You would never become the main characters of the books, rather you would assist them, and help them, and kind of like a WoW concept, once enough people helped only then could something in the world change. There's more ideas here but something like this could be a great concept. (really just an alive open world MMORPG)
* I think a gangster MMORPG, something like MafiaWars (yeah I know shhhhh) but transformed into a much more epic MMORPG. Something where you can progress through the game, while having interactions with everyone else, but at the same time playing your own game.
However - besides this, I think in the next 12-18 months we will be seeing some of those games with risks you talk about emerge. Remember to give any new MMO a shot takes years of development. So the fact that we are just not talking about this, means someone probably already realized this years ago, and started creating to some extent what we want. Look at the titles coming and tell me there isn't at least a hint of some of the things you talk about:
* FFXIV
* Star Wars Old Republic
* Agency
* Star Trek Online
* All Points Bulletin
* Stargate Worlds
I think we'll see the next generations of MMORPG's start 2010. I can only speculate, however given the success, could you imagine if Blizzards next rival MMORPG.... was Starcraft Online? I wouldn't be surprised, as it wouldn't interfer with WoW's cluster of fantasy based players who want to stay in the genre, they wouldn't compete with themselves, say as FFXI and FFXIV will be.
One other thing I forgot to mention...
In the Inheritance Cycle, Eragon story, magic is powerfull and yes as you learn and become more knowledgeable about the anchient language used to perform magic (the word is the thing, the thing is the word, to have control over the word, means you have control over the thing). However typically it was not how powerfull a magician was or the extent of one's knowledge, rather it was how cleaverly you combined the words, how you had to find weaknesses in your opponent. Also magic drained your strength, casting a spell too powerfull for your body to support, would kill you. A system based around a language of words, when combined you could produce new kinds of magic, and depending on how you combined them and in which way you combined them, the results would vary, and all would consume your strength. Could you imagine the ingenious methods people would come up with to combine words, and if the engine was written well enough, this would be an integral part of the game. Even a casual player could rival a player who played 24/7, because they though of something that player did not.
It wouldn't be easy, but if done right, that system would be unlike anything else in the MMORPG genre. You actually have to think and prepare for a battle, you don't just mash keys..
Lots of games have already done exactly what you're asking.
But we are talking Western developers here, F2P games is, hmm how should I put it a money grab from the Developers. its like the micro loans you can get over the phone a way to make cash of the player. I cant call these real games im sorry.
We need inovation that is for sure and the Developers are lacking in it big time, WOW = Lotro = WAR = AOC = Yawn.. okey AOC could have been a great game if they released it a year later...
and Tabula rasa was a bad game, so also was Darkfall as it had to little budget and jumpgate should never been done, sorry Net devil I allready know you will fail...
Acually im getting Bored of being right haha, when all these games where in develpment, Tabula Rasa, Darfall, Vanguard I said after taking a fast look at what they where doing, Im talking about when they started to make it now. I said THE WILL FAIL and i havent been wrong once...
second I said AOC and WAR will be a mess if they realase it like this and lets hope they can keep even half of thier subscribers, this was when I was in there Beta, nobody listened and what was it A FAIL.
I soo soo Tired of being right that its not fun anymore.
now future predictions, and remember I said this..
MORTAL = FAIL, they just dont have the money, great idee if I had a Billion swedish crowns I would give it to them so they could make the next gen MMO but sadly I do not so we have to list this on the FAIL list. If EA or Actavison or UBI SOFT want a hit mmo on thier hands give your money to these Devs please.
STAR TREK ONLINE = Might be good IF they dont realses it to soon, I expect they will and then its another FAIL
CHAMPIONS ONLINE = FAIL, they might bring a super game but that wont help them, Superhero MMOS are not HOT right now, we been feed just to mush of it on the big screen and it just dosent feel fresh to me.
THE OLD REPUBLIC = FAIL, sorry Starwars fans but I just cant see this going anywhere, All this talk about story, and setting it in the time that they have NO I dont feel it. Just like I dident feel the last three Starwars movies, horribal Lucas crushed all the myth in those last three movies. Made me cry that he said he made it for his doughters, did he think girls even like starwars? or even know what makes a good Scfi Movie? Lucas arts have also brought only subpar games over the years trying to cash in on the franshise. Maybe Bioware can save it but, the hole we have come up with the Third wheel " that is Story" got me spooked that they are way way off base of what the MMO public wants or needs.
JUMPGATE = as I said before its a FAIL.
I hope Im wrong about my predictions, But sadly I dont think im going to Bee.
All in all I see myself playing EVE for the next 5 years untill the industry finaly catches on and start to understand what the PUBLIC realy wants.
Without completely changing what an MMO is, a lot of games are trying new things. Are you even noticing?
CoX/Champions Online: User created content with Mission Architect and Nemisis system respectively.
Chronicles of Spellborn: Statless gear, combat wheel.
SW:TOR: Story- driven, 100% voice acted.
Fallen Earth: 95% player crafted items. 6 factions, FPS/RPG hybrid combat
The Secret World: Classless, story driven, mystery solving.
Heroes Of Telara: Real world changing mass events, 1 character can be all classes
All Points Bulletin: Import MP3's, customize your phat wheels. Wreak havoc.
And look at all the non-fantasy genres being represented; sci-fi, gang/GTA, post-apocalyptic, horror. That in and of itself is thrilling me.
These are just a few, and I don't even like all of them, so I am not fanboiing ( is that a word? :0 ). Devs are trying new things all the time, but they are NOT reinventing the wheel. And if they did would it still be a wheel, and would you want that? Unlikely.
I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the Eragon idea.
I think if there was an interactive story going on whilst the characters played/joined, it would make the MMO absolutely amazing.
No level progression? I hate that idea, unless it's in the Eragon idea. I want some more NexusTK/DarkAges type of MMORPGs..I don't know why, those games were more addictive than cocaine.
Thanks alot for the hint with lego universe i will definitly have a look at it.
I have been looking for a more sandbox like game where the environment interacts with player behaviour. I think the big derail that has happened in the genre is that the new games are more linear theme parks than open worlds. With the certain attractions feeling very static and repetitive being boring very fast.
MMO's are about the communities (at least for me)
Some risks developers should think about that come to my mind are:
When MMOs cost 30 million+ to produce, taking a risk isnt exactly what shareholders want to hear. It's a business first.
If you're going to pump 30 million+ into an MMO, and come up with another version WoW, why bother?
Chances are your game won't be as polished as WoW, have a built in audience like WoW, and why would anyone who plays WoW leave? I don't play WoW, but I play a pretty similiar clone of it, even if the devs don't want to admit it..
Do I want to go play Aion? Why would I? From what I am gathering, its essentially another clone..
Seems to me that making another vanilla boring game just like all the others with maby one different feature is a risk all in itself. At least if you make something out of a radical idea, people will go to that because there is nothing like it.
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)
If you're going to pump 30 million+ into an MMO, and come up with another version WoW, why bother?
Chances are your game won't be as polished as WoW, have a built in audience like WoW, and why would anyone who plays WoW leave? I don't play WoW, but I play a pretty similiar clone of it, even if the devs don't want to admit it..
Do I want to go play Aion? Why would I? From what I am gathering, its essentially another clone..
And apparently it is very successful in Asia. I think it is a myth that people don't want clones. How many versions of Madden Football are out there now?
Incremental improvement on gameplay + new setting + new graphics = win in market place. Halo3, Gear of War 2, Half Life2 .. these are all good games.
LOTR did that with flying colors. It is no wow and it makes money. Lineage II I think is also doing well and it is a sequal.
If you're going to pump 30 million+ into an MMO, and come up with another version WoW, why bother?
Chances are your game won't be as polished as WoW, have a built in audience like WoW, and why would anyone who plays WoW leave? I don't play WoW, but I play a pretty similiar clone of it, even if the devs don't want to admit it..
Do I want to go play Aion? Why would I? From what I am gathering, its essentially another clone..
And apparently it is very successful in Asia. I think it is a myth that people don't want clones. How many versions of Madden Football are out there now?
Incremental improvement on gameplay + new setting + new graphics = win in market place. Halo3, Gear of War 2, Half Life2 .. these are all good games.
LOTR did that with flying colors. It is no wow and it makes money. Lineage II I think is also doing well and it is a sequal.
Most of the games you mentioned don't require a $15 monthly fee...
Also, I'm not talking sequels, I'm talking about MMOs that when i pull them out of the box, play like World of Warcraft, with new skins, and perhaps some slightly different content.
As far as Aion in Asia, yes, I hear its doing well, do you happen to know how many subs it has? I honestly don't know.. As compared to Warcraft as well?
Though i believe Warcraft has a lil mess in Asia right now, or did, not sure how that panned out, or if it did already...