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General: Sanya Weathers: No Endgame For MMO Devs
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Sanya Weathers takes a look at the cult of game developer celebrity and player perception of them. Is it fair for one guy to take all the credit or blame or a single game? In light of recent events, Sanya breaks it down.
In video games, particularly MMOs, the phenomenon is such a regular occurrence that we should expect to see it once a year like some kind of unholy groundhog day. In the past few years, weve seen it happen to Jeff Anderson, Brad McQuaid, Bill Roper, Richard Garriott, and Mark Jacobs, among others. All five of those guys were strongly associated with their studios. All five were hit professionally, for varying reasons with varying degrees of culpability, and then shredded by the chattering classes with a savagery normally exhibited by feral cats and Walmart shoppers going after flatscreen TVs.
But these are MMO people, and theres no such thing as a final chapter in an MMO. Jeff and Bill are already back in action. Brad has launched a blog, en route to his comeback. Richard Garriott has several new hobbies. Mark is not the type to sit quietly and fade away.
So, what creates these dramas with their multiple acts?
The full column is here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Nice writeup. I also can't help but think there's a bunch of hidden jabs at Mark Jacob.
I enjoyed the article Sanya. We as players don't really see all that is going on behind the scenes of an MMO. Ultimately heads will roll if the product doesn't live up to expectations and it seems like in today's mmo world you have about 3 to 6 months to deliver those expectations or you're in trouble. Also, do you know Haden Blackman? If so would you be kind enough to kick him hard in the twig and berries for me when you see him? Thanks!
Always a excellent read! ++
Nice article. Familiar to those of us who have worked in the corporate world and some insight to the younger crowd that has never worked or those who have worked in the civilian private sector but just didn't pay attention.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
This went through ten drafts. If there were hidden jabs at anyone, I either deleted them or made them more obvious.
That's actually part of my motivation for writing this column - the anonymous dillweeds taking hidden jabs. My actual friends in the industry have their names on their posts, or spell out their job titles, past and present.
But that's another rant.
Sanya M. Weathers
Director of Community
Undead Labs
Nicely written humorous article. And I love the drunken ferret.
Isn't that one of the sea otters from Sea World, except with beer instea of a Pepsi/Coke/sponsered beverage?
This went through ten drafts. If there were hidden jabs at anyone, I either deleted them or made them more obvious.
That's actually part of my motivation for writing this column - the anonymous dillweeds taking hidden jabs. My actual friends in the industy have their names on their posts, or spell out their job titles, past and present.
But that's another rant.
Wait. So, would we (and by "we" I mean forum goers, game players) fall into that "anoymous dillweed" category for the things we say about them? Cause I have done so on more than a few occaisions (stating that they've lost touch with the spark that created this genre, etc...an example can be found here that I wrote today.) If so, don't get me wrong, I'm not upset at being called a dillweed (been called much worse, lol!!), I just don't put my real name out there because of you never know when something you write will piss someone off enough that they come after you. Sure, I have 8 years Army behind me and my home is a miniature armory, but have you ever tried to clean blood out of a carpet?
That and I don't think most of my jabs are hidden, lol.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nice article, and ultimately common knowledge to anyone who has held down a job in the real world. Though I did find the following rather telling as to why the games are the same, year after year, release after release:
The same hundred people see each other at the same five conferences, year after year. I used to call E3 “summer camp,” and the Austin Game Conference my “high school reunion.” Everyone knows everyone else. Half of the group has a supersized personality, half of *those* people have supersized personality disorders, and many people are drinking heavily. For three days straight.
Sounds like your average high school clique. And people wonder why most of the games are uninspiring carrot-chasing grind fests.
Good insight & an appreciated article
...Designs on napkins, bug issues on post-its...thats my dream one day *sniff*
No, and I'm not explaining myself well.
Right now, on several forums, there are people posting under newly created identities just to make cheap shots at someone they don't know, and they've made no effort to talk to anyone informed. That's a dillweed.
People who say "die in a fire" over a video game in any sense but an ironic one are dillweeds.
But I don't think an observation counts as dillweed behavior. And I clearly don't think using a forum handle is in and of itself dillweed behavior, although it is often a contributing factor.
I do think that if you are part of the game industry, you have a responsibility to identify yourself as such, either by affiliation or by your actual name. But plenty of people that I love and respect feel differently about this, and I don't claim to be walking the one true path or anything. For myself, I have made a point for the last eight years of using some variation of my real name everywhere that I post, and if I'm posting on behalf of a studio, then I use "NameOfProduct RealName" as my handle. Just so everyone knows where and for what I stand.
I didn't always feel that way, but I like to think I learned from my youthful idiocy.
Sanya M. Weathers
Director of Community
Undead Labs
No, and I'm not explaining myself well.
Right now, on several forums, there are people posting under newly created identities just to make cheap shots at someone they don't know, and they've made no effort to talk to anyone informed. That's a dillweed.
People who say "die in a fire" over a video game in any sense but an ironic one are dillweeds.
But I don't think an observation counts as dillweed behavior. And I clearly don't think using a forum handle is in and of itself dillweed behavior, although it is often a contributing factor.
I do think that if you are part of the game industry, you have a responsibility to identify yourself as such, either by affiliation or by your actual name. But plenty of people that I love and respect feel differently about this, and I don't claim to be walking the one true path or anything. For myself, I have made a point for the last eight years of using some variation of my real name everywhere that I post, and if I'm posting on behalf of a studio, then I use "NameOfProduct RealName" as my handle. Just so everyone knows where and for what I stand.
I didn't always feel that way, but I like to think I learned from my youthful idiocy.
Well maybe I misread but I thought your initial comment was about people from the game industry. Who make these jabs without ID'ing themselves. As you said right after that "my friends in the industry have their names on their posts" or close to that.
Its easy as a "customer" to get caught in some things. Yet I try to keep a small tidbit of logic even in my rants (if anyone ever thinks I said something bad about WAR they didn't see my NGE posts). Some of this has to do with I don't like games that don't do well or are changed in ways that hurt them. Mostly this is due to the fact that "failure" does not encourage investment or taking risk instread of "use what works". So my passion comes from the fact I want the industry to survive and not be real life version of "clone wars".
I've never held a personal grudge against anyone that created an entertainment product. If "Aradune" or "Lord British" as I still call them.. came out with a new product that I enjoyed. Well I would play that product until I no longer enjoyed it. Tho I was disturbed by some things that were done, you have to move on. (RG had so many titles I loved with Origin System Inc.. well Tabula Rasa is just one thing that happened. It doesn't erase everything else.)
When I read forums quite often .. well I'll just end this by saying.. I am quite often disturbed by some things I read on them.
This one was a nice read.
At least part of the problem steps from all these "big names" only actually have one successful MMO to their name. I wouldn't pay special attention to a movie director for just one good movie. Usually I need to see around three good movies by that director before I memorize their name and start watching movies purely on the recommendation that they were directing it. Just one is a fluke or maybe the result of someone else's work.
No, and I'm not explaining myself well.
Right now, on several forums, there are people posting under newly created identities just to make cheap shots at someone they don't know, and they've made no effort to talk to anyone informed. That's a dillweed.
People who say "die in a fire" over a video game in any sense but an ironic one are dillweeds.
But I don't think an observation counts as dillweed behavior. And I clearly don't think using a forum handle is in and of itself dillweed behavior, although it is often a contributing factor.
I do think that if you are part of the game industry, you have a responsibility to identify yourself as such, either by affiliation or by your actual name. But plenty of people that I love and respect feel differently about this, and I don't claim to be walking the one true path or anything. For myself, I have made a point for the last eight years of using some variation of my real name everywhere that I post, and if I'm posting on behalf of a studio, then I use "NameOfProduct RealName" as my handle. Just so everyone knows where and for what I stand.
I didn't always feel that way, but I like to think I learned from my youthful idiocy.
I somewhat agree with you in that it is our responsibility within the industry to let people know where our opinions stand. However, for those of us that work for smaller studios that may be working on projects for several larger studios at a time, it is difficult for us to explain our honest opinions, without catching hell for it. Namely because what you say online these days, can and will haunt you if you even mention a disagreement with the way a client handles things, or even a boss- and on rare occasion, a boss complaining about one of his employees (that employee will sue for defamation, I've seen it). That is the primary reason I personally use a handle while playing other's games, or posting on fine websites such as this, unless it is the official forum for a game that I am working on. I guess it is different though for community reps and leads, since theirs are inevetably more public areas. However, I am just a graphic artist/animator and don't have to deal with the interviews and such regularly (unless a reporter stops by and is watching me build a world, or a character). That said, I have tried to indicate that I am within the industry in some of my posts in the past, just so people know where I come from in my critique or praise of a game/ studio/ biggie-sized personality.
However, I will agree wholeheartedly with the article. It is a fine window into our world, for those on the outside.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Thanks for an entertaining and informative read Sanya, your honest is refreshing! It is very evident that you are well schooled in "human nature" a difficult subject at best . :-)
What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.
but thats me..
I can promise you this - there are no statements in that entire article that apply to one single individual. What I said applies, for better or for worse, to multiple people. And I'm told that the same is true across many industries, which vaguely depresses me.
People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.
Sanya M. Weathers
Director of Community
Undead Labs
Though I've been in the game industry 6 years or so, I have still spent a majority of my career outside of it. Sanya, that article was a fantastically accurate microcosm of the MMO mini-verse.
Great job!
Rich "Tisirin" Weil
Community Director
Cartoon Network
I can promise you this - there are no statements in that entire article that apply to one single individual. What I said applies, for better or for worse, to multiple people. And I'm told that the same is true across many industries, which vaguely depresses me.
People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.
That will not save you, if these people is half the crazy you describe. People can mistake any reference, as a personal reference, and get angry. Ref: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118954/
Also, ##CODE ERROR##!.. you *hardly* know everyone in the industry. North America? maybe.. but I doubt you are friends with most Korean dev's, or the guys of Adventurine, or the guys of Taikodom. Hahaha.. :-)
Very amuseing article and like you have said the additudes found in a MMO company is not limited to just that industry, but is prevaliant in all industries. I have worked in the food industry, and the medical industry and the additudes are the same ( I do not think you want to hear about how ugly a group of women in a office setting can get......and I'm a guy who does not get involved in ANYONES drama..... so I'm sure you can guess how well liked I AM lol).
One thing I have noticed in some gaming forums is that sometimes a dev will make a change in a sandbox style MMO just because the players are not playing their mission, not because it will improve the game. Then there was the NGE ( I was on the forums when the NGE hit and it was more beause of the comments the DEVs made that made me quit then the changes they made to the game). And it was not just SWG that I saw this additude on.
OF cource the players are even worse, I am constantly amazed at how many players forget that they are playing a GAME, and that is you are not playing it their way then you have no right to even say the games name much less be a DEV on it.
I don't understand this. Clarification, please.
So is there alot of devs taking money from gold farmers or what?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I can promise you this - there are no statements in that entire article that apply to one single individual. What I said applies, for better or for worse, to multiple people. And I'm told that the same is true across many industries, which vaguely depresses me.
People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.
Ok, I really enjoy your articles. Sometimes the posts even more. I think I may have to steal that one. If someone said it please let me know.
People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.
Gotta Love it!
Interesting and well-written read as always.
This whole idea of "celebrity", when applied to people who are largely unknown to the general population has always puzzled me. Celebrity, or fame, is actually a purely relative term. There will be individuals who are "famous" in their school, their village, their golf club. People in their milieu will gossip about them and use them as examplars or dire warnings as if those people stood somehow outside or above the set.
It scales up from there. I was pretty heavily involved in comics fandom through the 1980s and there was a clear hierarchy of celebrity, not only within comics professionals but within comics fandom itself. All the behavior you describe took place in a microcosm at countless conventions and weekenders. The big difference then was that it's outward expression was through fanzines, which came out sporadically but never more often than monthly, and often only reached a local audience, whereas nowadays reaction and opinion is instantaneous and global.
I used to question then whether any of those "stars" of comics were really stars in any meaningful way. They certainly weren't stars in the way Clint Eastwood or Jane Fonda were. I wondered, then, if they would ever have the gravitas outside the field that other creative artists had achieved: could they compete in fame in the wider world with Borges or Braque, or even Judy Blume or Ralph Steadman?
At the time I doubted it, but now that I work with a bunch of people who aren't comic fans but hold Alan Moore as some kind of god, and when our national press routinely gives half-page obituaries even to fairly minor comics greats, I have to admit that maybe that celebrity did have some reality.
In games, I'm not so sure. The whole process, as you mention, is just so collaborative that the handful of names that float to the surface are inevitably either actual publicists or self-publicists. Film is a similarly collaborative enterprise, but it has lead actors on whom we focus and a director who, rightly or wrongly, is conventionally ascribed creative responsibility. In games, Mario and Lara Croft become the genuine, undeniable celebrities, not the guys who sat in a cubicle for months making them happen.
MMOs don't even have those fictional characters as surrogate stars, because in MMOs the hero is YOU. What really changed it for comics, in my opinion, was the adoption by Hollywood of comics as a prime source of material. The quality of the movies didn't matter, it was the budgets spent on making and promoting them that pushed comic characters and their creators right into the mainstream. Games, though, could possibly unseat movies as the world's first-choice entertainment medium, in which case there will be some real celebrity to be grabbed by those most able to stick their names on the outside of the box.
Typically great article, Sanya. It's nice to see insight into the industry. Seems very much like the travel or general marketing industries - maybe a bit geekier.
One particular paragraph stands out to me:
"Beyond all of that, there is the basic fact that without a great deal of effort, people at the top of any field lose touch with the things that made them great. The first to go is usually empathy for ordinary people, which unfortunately makes up the bulk of the potential customers and employees – all people who rely on you to care. Perspective goes next, because of the all encompassing bubble of pleasant sounding people who avoid confronting you. Creative thinking goes at some point, or at least the proof of it, because risks cannot be taken with millions of dollars of other peoples’ money. And one’s sense of fun disappears when someone is isolated, which is just death to a game maker. But simple things stop being enjoyable, until finally “fun” is limited to things beyond the range or experience of the average gamer."
This made complete sense to me and explained a ton, right up until the last sentence. Just looking at what has been released over the past 5 years, "fun" is definitely limited, but at least to me not at all beyond anyone's range or experience. Quite the opposite, actually. The average gamer, at least in the eyes of today's developers, is a 17-year-old boy who never emotionally matured past age 8. Instant gratification is rampant, and appears to be the result of a combination of people whining about the "grind" and random focus groups who are merely asked "So, would you like something nice later, or would you like it now?" and are rarely, if ever, shown the complete package objectively. While I don't think games should necessarily be designed to make calculus seem like Candy Land, it'd be nice if some of these designers would come down from their clouds you so eloquently described them on, get back to their roots, and maybe take a look at what people who actually have disposable income and a modicum of intelligence enjoy.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum