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Interesting thread on the Official Forums
Here is the link... but I doubt it will be live for long. I will paste it below as well. It appears that some of the players of DarkFall are upping the ante a bit. Should be interesting to see Tasos's response to this turn of events.
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
The following was brought up in a thread by frOg and I feel it deserves to be clearly displayed for those that feel wronged/upset with AV's current NA server decisions. I've copy and pasted my reply from there to here and modified it to make it easy for those that wish to do so to speak out.
While I agree that AV's initial statements are ultra vague and do NOT truely expect anything to happen, I have filed an official complaint through econsumer and highly recommend everyone else who is upset with how this all has worked out to do the same. If for no other reason than maybe with enough complaints it will force game producers to be VERY clear upfront about this type of thing in the future.
If you feel you have been scammed by a bait and switch tactic, file a complaint against Aventurine here(it only takes a minute):
http://www.econsumer.gov/
If you wish to use it, here is a copy of my complaint anyone can use by pasteing it into the comments section at the bottom of the complaint form:
Aventurine is the creater of an online game called Darkfall Online. The game is hosted on an european server. When Aventurine initially released this game, they stated that North American players would be able to play on the EU server and that they would accomadate their move to the NA servers when such servers were launched. They also said that players would be allowed 1 character per server. NA players bought the initial game($50) and payed for monthly access($15 per month) with the understanding they would be able to move to the NA servers and play there instead once launched. Aventurine has just recently announced that NA players who wish to play on the new server at launch must now buy a new copy of the game(account) and that the game is no longer 1 character per server, but rather 1 character per account. Had this information been clearly stated initially many NA players, myself included, would not have bought the game at all and/or paid for the monthly subscription. Aventurine clearly changed their single character per server agreement, which is why I initially decided to buy the game, after I had already bought the game and had been paying for multiple months of service.
This thread is not for the discussion of what was implied or refered from AV's inital quotes. The 1 thing that really can not be argued is that AV clearly changed their stance on 1 character per server and changed their FAQ in regards to this after the fact.
If you wish to /sign or state that you have filed a complaint to bump the thread and keep it easy to find for others please do so.
If you want to discuss what was implied or meant by the initial quotes from AV and/or flame those that are upset about this all please do so in the multiple threads that already exist for just that purpose.
__________________
Comments
His complaint sounds very much like what I posted to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3.gov) against Av, and I suggest others follow the same path.
Lets see how well they hold together when Interpol and other agencies start anal probing them and turning over the rocks to see what other slime is living under them.
That's a little to far, I think. It's bad buisness practice, sure. But that's nothing you can sue for. Plus, the company is based in Greece, it's doubtful the US gov can do anything about their buisness practices over there. The most you could do, which is very unlikely, is stop the launch in America, but trust me, that wont happen
Can I get called a fanboy now for pointing out the truth?
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
First off I just want to say that I totally agree with the OP and that I really do hope you get somewhere.
To play devils advocate though, they (they being the company) ususally cover their collective asses by stating that your experiences may change during gameplay. This is usually in the EULA and translates to "We'll do what we like, if you don't like it, stop playing." I personally think this is a crummy way to do business, but with everyone out there vying for MMO dollars, I'm not really surprised.
I wish you all the best in your quest for justice and I'd REALLY like to see how you make out, for better or worse. If nothing else, we'll know not to give our money to Adventurine.
Pretty much. Look at you're Everquest, SWG, AoC boxes, and see if they're exactly what they described on the box.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
It's different.
Because this IS a bait and switch tactic.
But they can do something about their practices here in the U.S. once the NA version is launched. Including forcing them to remove the product from U.S. availabilty. Which would mean NA players would have to go back to playing in the EU srvers and AV would lose any income they may have made from the NA servers.
i don't know ... they are indeed a bunch of shifty individuals and did some horribly wrong stuff, but i was satisfied enough to just charge my money back.
i think that hurts them enough and i'm pretty sure i wasn't the only one who charged back. man i can't wait for the 7th july, either they fix the game to a playable state or we will have a huuuuuge nerdraging mob of dissapointed players that will flood their forum and the game will "finally" die.
jedi mind - heavenly divine, steadily shine in '99!
comeon, get your heads out your asses and think for a sec. . its a greek company. The world could´nt care less about your laws. We know you like to think otherwise, we get it, but still we dont care.
No one will care, no one will change their business practises because of it, all you do is waste your time.
If the majority of the playerbase lives in North America... And America prevents the game from "launching" due to shady business practices, do you really think they're going to stick around with an awful lag?
Also, I HATE people like this, who try and discourage others from getting back at shady companies / governmental bodies because "YOU WON'T DO ANYTHING." One person may not, but the thousands backing him up will.
This mentality of not doing anything when you believe there are some very wrong decisions involved seeking pure profit is purely BS.
The more people show its support, more chances it will receive attention.
Good luck.
If the majority of the playerbase lives in North America... And America prevents the game from "launching" due to shady business practices, do you really think they're going to stick around with an awful lag?
Also, I HATE people like this, who try and discourage others from getting back at shady companies / governmental bodies because "YOU WON'T DO ANYTHING." One person may not, but the thousands backing him up will.
Or.......you could just stop playing (and therefor paying).
Naaaa, let's all file a lawsuit. Yeah, that'll work.
Well slow here , if theres a fraud accusation it wont simply be settled by saying US Courts have no Juristiction . Be sure
the next steps could be taken by ppl sueing AV over EU courts , and Greece is part of the EU.
just an fyi...
the only ones who come out ontop in a class-action lawsuit are the lawyers.
well the first thing i have to ask is this game even released yet?
the second thing is that the http://www.econsumer.gov/ doesnt have greece on as one of the country that supports it
So complaining there might be a waste of time.
See people have to remember you pay to play their game not yours . when someone is gonna ask them someone about this topic they simply say they have technical difficulties and we cant do it at this time.
now someone said about loring in customers in the game. Companies do this all the time, like when you go to get some food at the store and you see a box pizza on for half price your like that is awesome and you get 2 and when you are ready to pay for it, it was the wrong kind of pizza and both are at full price. Companies always try to lorer people in to buy thier products.
About being a shady company ... Maybe but maybe not. Again its their game your paying to play the game. They are allowed to do anything they want with thier game and im pretty sure you cant sue or anything about it.
But if the OP is that mad about it either leave the game or try in sueing them i bet the lawyers will love you then.
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The existence of a NA publisher for Darkfall makes it possible to file complaints for the lack of a promissed service (that is, if they truly and expressively did state you would have free character transfers as soon as NA servers went online).
The NA Publisher didnt promiss any service,it was AV that did it.So your complaint will fall short in US.
Consider it done.
Aventurine S.A.
Athens, Greece
Contact Person: Anastasias "Tasos" Flampouras
http://www.aventurine.gr/
contact@aventurine.gr
Aventurine S.A. is the creator of an online game called Darkfall Online. The game is hosted on an european server. When Aventurine initially released this game, they stated that North American players would be able to play on the EU server and that they would accomadate their move (account transfer) to the NA (North American) servers when a North American supporter is identified and when such servers were launched. There was no mention or consideration communicated to their purchasers that anything other than a one-time product purchase/account purchase fee would be garnered. Aventurine also told subscribers, that were purchasing a service/product that was promoted to have more than one server to access in the near future, that they (subscribers/account purchasers) would be allowed 1 character per server (not per purchased account). NA players bought the initial game($50) and payed for monthly access($15 per month over 4 months, equalling an additional $60) with the understanding they (subscribers to the service) would be able to transfer to the NA server and take advantage of the product there instead, once launched. Aventurine has just recently announced that NA players who wish to play on the new North Amercian server, since a North American partner has been found, at launch must now buy a new copy of the game (account) and that the game is no longer 1 character per server, but rather 1 character per account. The blatent misleadings by Aventurine S.A., I consider to be a bait and switch tactic. Had this information been clearly stated initially many NA players, myself included, would not have bought the game at all, nor paid for the monthly subscription. Aventurine not only deceived the North American subscriber market, Aventurine S.A has deceptively placed the consumer in a position to purchase their product twice; a second time now that a North American server is opening. Aventurine S.A. clearly changed their single character per server agreement, which is why I initially decided to buy the game, after I had already bought the game and had been paying for multiple months of service.
Complaint Confirmation
Thank you. Your reference #xxxxxxx
Can anyone link something from AV where they "promised" to people who started on the EU servers join the NA server "on the first day of lauch" and "for free"
I've not see it and without such statements there's nothing for this complaint to stand on.
If you misinterpreted vague statements they made that left them lots of wiggle room, odds are you'll fail in court.
But even more importantly, no reasonable person could have taken anything at face value said by AV/Tasos with their long history of obscure promises if not outright lies.
There's a saying, let the buyer beware, and even US courts sometimes expect consumers to use their brains once in a while.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm under the impression that the FAQ change is the main complaint.
But they can do something about their practices here in the U.S. once the NA version is launched. Including forcing them to remove the product from U.S. availabilty. Which would mean NA players would have to go back to playing in the EU srvers and AV would lose any income they may have made from the NA servers.
Thanks for not reading the line below what you highlighted...?
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
In a purely legal sense it's debatable if anything can, or will, be done. However, any games consumer reading this, or one of many other sites, will soon know that AV have garnered a reputation for extremely dubious business practices (or can I say they're just flat-out lying fucks?!)
Whether they get taken to task legally should become a moot point. People saying "buyer beware", like it exonerates AV from any blame, should realise that, sooner or later, the buyer will be aware that this bunch of fuck-witted, fly by night cowboys are NOT to be trusted with pretty much anything.
Then they'll be held to account in the only court that matters to them, that of the consumers money. DF is going to die, not due to it being a half finished, bug and hack ridden game (ok, not only because of that), but because people simply won't trust them.
Do DF fans really think that people who are either sitting on the fence about buying it, or who have been pissed over by Tasos from his pedestal of bullshit will think twice about paying for an NA copy of DF when Mortal Online is right around the corner?
To me, this smacks of AV realising that their laughable sub numbers are going to nosedive into oblivion when MO releases, so they're trying to claw as much cash in as possible.
I never wanted any game to fail, and I don't want DF to fail. However I do want AV to fail for being the incompetent, duplicitous, shylock cock-monkeys that they are.
I am so very upset.
DarkFall is the best game ever made.
The owners are greedy.
I would not do this, but you can get help from your credit card company.
please do not kill the best game ever made
If the game gets killed it will likely be from lack of subs..from shite like changing to 1 toon per sub after saying otherwise. I seriously doubt if it will be shut down because of E-complaints. Those things probably go straight into the junkmail folder and subsequently deleted after an auto response. Face it...the U.S. government only throws more money at bad business while shaking it's finger like a scolding parent. And sending bitchnotes to the F.B.I....lol...a bit extreme... besides..they couldn't even bother to read through the faxed warnings,proposals, essays and evidence of terrorist activities..until something drastic happened. So ...unless all the PCs running Darkfall simultaneously explode..killing thousands(providing there are that many subs)...then good luck.
Even if the PCs running DF simultaneously explode, it will kill no one. Afk macroers typically do not sit in front of the computer.
On the other hand, the PC retail services will gloify DF, as it brings a few thousand new orders, assuming there are still a few thousand afk macroing.
In all fairness, and I pointed it out a long time ago when the initial 'faq is totally innacurate' threads started appearing.
EU distance selling legislation (which includes direct purchases via the internet , such as this) is far more strict than the equivalent US law.
The misleading FAQ itself was a clear breach, the current EU/US server situation more so.
However, The company itself seems heavily in debt, short on income, so the likely outcome would be they would just close down.