When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"
You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".
These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.
Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)
FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk" You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore". These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it. Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke) FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore") Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Agree 100%. The "hardcore" internet tough guys definitely cry the loudest.
MO is not a PvP game. It's a sandbox MMO, that will have FFA PvP as part of the gameplay. It's an enormous difference.
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk" You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore". These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it. Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke) FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore") Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd, just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk" You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore". These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it. Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke) FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore") Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk" You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore". These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it. Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke) FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore") Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.
Some of the griefer guilds number in the thousands of members. Blood in AC, as an example.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
PK !=Griefing. PK is the very mechanic that makes a PvP game PvP-- the ability to kill a fellow player. There's nothing wrong with PK. There's everything in the world about griefing. You want to grief? Fine. Grief away until, as a previous poster so succinctly put it, you're left with nothing but a server full of naked lowbies.
I'm just curious. When did it become okay for the FPS crowd to come in and take over our genre? I thought RPGs represented the more intelligent, admittedly geeky, but overall reasonable crowd who just want to enjoy a little escapism in a fantasy world that DOESN'T necessarily involve 24/7 mindless killing and LOLOLOLOLO I TBAGGED U N00B!!!
Seriously, guys, there needs to be some kind of nerd uprising and a retaking of our baby. Who's with me? Wave yer pocket protectors in the air!
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Madeux I hope you are right baout people getting together in anti griefing guilds but I think the MMo community today is not made up of the same decent people from UO. At least in UO you could usually get some people together to smack the griefers around for being oxygen thieves. I just have serious doubt if the mmo community of today is anything more than the virtual equivalent of a violent prison population always looking out for the fresh meat.
You can melee a Big Daddy to death with no bad consequence in Bioshock. You created no hand kills in COD4. You ruined TF2. You play WoW to achieve what everyone else has. You quit FFXI after the Japanese players wouldn't give you free handouts. You laugh at UO's bad graphics and pass it off as a bad game for that reason. You made fun of EVE online because there is no clear goal after the tutorial. Why do you continue to encourage companies to pump out easy clones of other games?
I just want to scam tough guy PK guilds like I did in Eve. I want to make Guilds suffer through the betrayal of my trust. Ha, I am a corp theif and I want to make internet tough guys cry as I steal their virtual property and sell it off to the highest bidder.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd,just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk" You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore". These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it. Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke) FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore") Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd,just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game. I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit. What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever. How many players said screw it and quit? Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft. There are few wolves and plenty of sheep. Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd,just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game. I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit. What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever. How many players said screw it and quit? Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft. There are few wolves and plenty of sheep. Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
That's a reasonable prediction, and is taken much better without the bluster of your original post. Still, it remains to be seen. If MO has a goal of maintaining say 100,000 subscriptions to be profitable, I'm willing to bet 100,000 people will be willing to face the dangers of a FFA PVP game. It still all boils down to the community at large and what they make of the game. It's going to be anarchy at first, but once large guilds establish themselves, some form of player-establish system of law and order emerges, and decent roleplayers start forming, acting out, and spreading some kind of compelling narrative in the game, stability will come. Hopefully, at least.
Myself, I don't mind being ganked here and there. Comes with the territory. However, if senseless griefing becomes the norm, the only fun will be had by the predators. I'm quite certain there aren't enough griefing asstards out there to sustain a profitible game, so hopefully people will be reasonable.
Note that reasonable does not equal carebear. Kill me, take my loot, and hell, teabag me if that's how you get your jollies. Just do your thing and then move on to the next guy, or I'm going to be forced to decide if my $15 per month is worth having to constantly deal with assholes.
EDIT: That last part is just a general statement, and not directed solely at you, -Zeno-
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Originally posted by -Zeno- MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game). So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
When you use phrases like "you ruined", "you cried" etc. , it sounds like your intend is to mock/blame the players who quit the game or the players who never tried the game in the first place. If games can't retain players, is that the fault of the players or the game? Are you trying to send the message that people will ruin the game or that there are alot of people who THINK they will enjoy the game but won't like a PVP-centric game once they actually experience it? If it's the latter, just say so, without the bluster. You could just say that it will suffer "the mordred problem", just like Darkfall, and leave it at that. http://brokentoys.org/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/
That being said, Mortal Online will have a flagging and stat-loss system similar to pre-trammel UO. The intent is to allow open PVP but discourage PVP that is non-consensual. Will that be enough? Only time will tell on that one.
Let's these carebears cry and left, who cares, they arent' so important. Ia a niche game for people who like FFA/PVP and full loot specifically, there is no space left for wow crybabies bored of their grindfest themepark.
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
This post doesnt rly make any sence to me...
Whats so hardcore about Red Alert.. its not even an mmo >.<
Never played UO but I guess this part is rational
Mordred?
I heard Shadowbane was very shit at release, thats why it became free.
Whats so hardcore bout AoC and its community and patches... its pretty much a themepark mmo with some gore?
I didnt laugh at Darkfall for trying... I cried.
This is true, I do laugh at EvE because I hate spaceships..
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
Thats why they have Counterstrike & Battlefield ....!
Every MMORPG since Everquest/Ashron's Call has been softcore... as even these games have gone softcore themselves in hopes of grabbing the -Zeno- newbie crowd..!
Let me guess, you started playing UO 4 years after it was released.... ~ seems like you've never played a full fledged MMORPG before. There is more to do in a real mmorpg than just combat..!
Let-alone just pvp...
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
You know what? You can blame the victim all you want, but anyone who has enough sense to analyze a situation knows that it's the griefers that make policy in PvP change, not the people whose fun you ruin by being an ass.
If MO goes that path, know that it's not the general player's fault or even the REAL hardcore player's fault, its people like YOU who ruin games like this because you feel some sense of achievement from taking advantage of people.
Then when you're sitting there scratching your head and wondering why nobody will log on and let you stab them, you'll only have yourself to blame., and I garuntee that YOU will be the one not playing in three months.
Kinda funny this thread... for all those people who played UO back when it came out, and i mean really think on this, the game was never advertised to be a FFA PVP game, what i find intresting is that MO hasnt said that they are marketing this as a FFA pvp game either. its marketed as a open seemless world made with skills and real life mechanics, im curious where all the sudden people think that just because its a FFA that it automatically makes it a PvP centric game, ever think that maybe its just a virtual world with the same abilities to kill someone in the real world?
Just like every other hardcore game you have tried. You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert. You created Trammel. You ruined Mordred. You quit Shadowbane at release. You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community. You laughed at Darkfall for trying. You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game. Why try another hardcore game?
AT LEAST WE WILL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO BUY THIS GAME HOOOOOOOOOOOO!
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
Anyway, your main point seems based around these games actually being good. Sorry to tell you but people quite these because they were SHIT, nothing to do with PK. I think I might have been killed 4 times on my way to 80 in AoC on aquilonia. Its just a shit game. Darkfall? Cant even bring my self to insult it, its worse than soulja boy and you know how bad he is? He's so bad he can be mocked using spongebob squarepants videos. THATS FUCKING SHIT! Now mortal, could be actually be a good game, but this is something you like to overlook, you are preparing for it to fail by readying this crazy idea that we are going to quit because of griefers. You dont know very much abut this game do you?
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Originally posted by -Zeno- MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game). So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
When you use phrases like "you ruined", "you cried" etc. , it sounds like your intend is to mock/blame the players who quit the game or the players who never tried the game in the first place. If games can't retain players, is that the fault of the players or the game? Are you trying to send the message that people will ruin the game or that there are alot of people who THINK they will enjoy the game but won't like a PVP-centric game once they actually experience it? If it's the latter, just say so, without the bluster. You could just say that it will suffer "the mordred problem", just like Darkfall, and leave it at that. http://brokentoys.org/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/
That being said, Mortal Online will have a flagging and stat-loss system similar to pre-trammel UO. The intent is to allow open PVP but discourage PVP that is non-consensual. Will that be enough? Only time will tell on that one.
Without the player, there is no game. Players will ruin the game. It does not matter how the developers create it or what options they give. Yes, some of the options will detract from the game (for me it would be first person view in this game).
Its odd, you go around and never hear bad things about UO. Various people who played it years ago say its the best game ever, and went downhill after trammel was created. Trammel was created to have safe zones. WoW is the same, full of safe zones. How many people say WoW is the best game ever? Very few, its a fast food MMO, its good for passing time, and looking neat.
MO is going to join the niche market, can the developers and investers handle that? Well, I can answer that, most likely a yes. Shadowbane paid for itself, and look at it now (dead), but they did not use middleware to create the game. Its not the only thing dead now, DAoC Mordred is down.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
well MO is created to be RPG, not a FFA PvP gank fest, even if am sure there will be some, if not alot, "red flagged", even if there is alot of "legal" PvP, MMOs should be social or there really isnt anything special about them....create the us against the enemy (to be created, if it would be guilds, other races, or thieves), so as long there is something to fight over, one happy person here.
Atleast in this game there is alot of focus on the PvE side as well....main thing needed to avoid the gank fest, if PvP is the only thing to do, it would be a online CS
Without the player, there is no game. Players will ruin the game. It does not matter how the developers create it or what options they give. Yes, some of the options will detract from the game (for me it would be first person view in this game).
Its odd, you go around and never hear bad things about UO. Various people who played it years ago say its the best game ever, and went downhill after trammel was created. Trammel was created to have safe zones. WoW is the same, full of safe zones. How many people say WoW is the best game ever? Very few, its a fast food MMO, its good for passing time, and looking neat.
MO is going to join the niche market, can the developers and investers handle that? Well, I can answer that, most likely a yes. Shadowbane paid for itself, and look at it now (dead), but they did not use middleware to create the game. Its not the only thing dead now, DAoC Mordred is down.
Players will ruin the game? Are you advocating that they never release the game so that it can remain in its imaginary perfected state? Or saying that if the developers take players requests and change the game without gibing much thought to the direction of the game that it will make the game worse in the long run? Obviously some people will try the game and decide they don't like it (because of the open PVP, or because its first-person perspective, or whatever) Without trying the game in the first place, they'll never figure out if they like it or not. It sounds like you are trying to warn people away from MO because they may not like it, or that if the game is good, it will get changed (Trammelized, if you like the term) at which point they won't like it anymore.
Compared to WOW, MO most likely will "join the niche market". It's good to make sure people understand what the game is about so they can have some idea of whether it appeals to them, but vague warnings that "You, reading this, will quit MO." is pretty useless. Some people will and some won't . To find it's niche, though, people have to try it in the first place. "Can the developers and investors handle that?" You give the examples of Shadowbane and Mordred, both of which have tanked. As another example there is EVE which has found it's niche. It's been going 6 years and is still going strong (and it's subscriber base is continuing to grow if I understand correctly).
As for "using middle-ware", well it may make operating the game more expensive, but it does help to cut the development time significantly. The Unreal engine has been used in plenty of other games, so obviously that factor by itself won't kill it.
If you think there is something specific wrong with Mortal Online, come out and say it, instead of all this nihilistic prophecy of failure. All I can say is, if the game sounds appealing to someone and they are willing to deal with open PVP (but not free-for-all PVP) then they should go ahead and try it.
I guess I don't understand your point. Are you warning people that they won't like they game and it will fail, or are you trying to keep them away so they don't change it in a way you don't like.
Comments
When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"
You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".
These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.
Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)
FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")
Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.
Agree 100%. The "hardcore" internet tough guys definitely cry the loudest.
MO is not a PvP game. It's a sandbox MMO, that will have FFA PvP as part of the gameplay. It's an enormous difference.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd, just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.
Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.
I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.
Some of the griefer guilds number in the thousands of members. Blood in AC, as an example.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
PK !=Griefing. PK is the very mechanic that makes a PvP game PvP-- the ability to kill a fellow player. There's nothing wrong with PK. There's everything in the world about griefing. You want to grief? Fine. Grief away until, as a previous poster so succinctly put it, you're left with nothing but a server full of naked lowbies.
I'm just curious. When did it become okay for the FPS crowd to come in and take over our genre? I thought RPGs represented the more intelligent, admittedly geeky, but overall reasonable crowd who just want to enjoy a little escapism in a fantasy world that DOESN'T necessarily involve 24/7 mindless killing and LOLOLOLOLO I TBAGGED U N00B!!!
Seriously, guys, there needs to be some kind of nerd uprising and a retaking of our baby. Who's with me? Wave yer pocket protectors in the air!
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Madeux I hope you are right baout people getting together in anti griefing guilds but I think the MMo community today is not made up of the same decent people from UO. At least in UO you could usually get some people together to smack the griefers around for being oxygen thieves. I just have serious doubt if the mmo community of today is anything more than the virtual equivalent of a violent prison population always looking out for the fresh meat.
You can melee a Big Daddy to death with no bad consequence in Bioshock.
You created no hand kills in COD4.
You ruined TF2.
You play WoW to achieve what everyone else has.
You quit FFXI after the Japanese players wouldn't give you free handouts.
You laugh at UO's bad graphics and pass it off as a bad game for that reason.
You made fun of EVE online because there is no clear goal after the tutorial.
Why do you continue to encourage companies to pump out easy clones of other games?
Playing: EVE
and you better care
I just want to scam tough guy PK guilds like I did in Eve. I want to make Guilds suffer through the betrayal of my trust. Ha, I am a corp theif and I want to make internet tough guys cry as I steal their virtual property and sell it off to the highest bidder.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd, just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
well said
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd, just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game. I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit. What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever. How many players said screw it and quit? Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft. There are few wolves and plenty of sheep. Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post. Nice. Another carebears beware post.
I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane. So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......
I guess I don't understand. Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them? Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?
I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games. Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.
Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group. Following the corwd, just like good little sheep. You won't last in MO.
You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.
The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is.
If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way. All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.
I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game. I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit. What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever. How many players said screw it and quit? Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft. There are few wolves and plenty of sheep. Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
That's a reasonable prediction, and is taken much better without the bluster of your original post. Still, it remains to be seen. If MO has a goal of maintaining say 100,000 subscriptions to be profitable, I'm willing to bet 100,000 people will be willing to face the dangers of a FFA PVP game. It still all boils down to the community at large and what they make of the game. It's going to be anarchy at first, but once large guilds establish themselves, some form of player-establish system of law and order emerges, and decent roleplayers start forming, acting out, and spreading some kind of compelling narrative in the game, stability will come. Hopefully, at least.
Myself, I don't mind being ganked here and there. Comes with the territory. However, if senseless griefing becomes the norm, the only fun will be had by the predators. I'm quite certain there aren't enough griefing asstards out there to sustain a profitible game, so hopefully people will be reasonable.
Note that reasonable does not equal carebear. Kill me, take my loot, and hell, teabag me if that's how you get your jollies. Just do your thing and then move on to the next guy, or I'm going to be forced to decide if my $15 per month is worth having to constantly deal with assholes.
EDIT: That last part is just a general statement, and not directed solely at you, -Zeno-
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
When you use phrases like "you ruined", "you cried" etc. , it sounds like your intend is to mock/blame the players who quit the game or the players who never tried the game in the first place. If games can't retain players, is that the fault of the players or the game? Are you trying to send the message that people will ruin the game or that there are alot of people who THINK they will enjoy the game but won't like a PVP-centric game once they actually experience it? If it's the latter, just say so, without the bluster. You could just say that it will suffer "the mordred problem", just like Darkfall, and leave it at that. http://brokentoys.org/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/
That being said, Mortal Online will have a flagging and stat-loss system similar to pre-trammel UO. The intent is to allow open PVP but discourage PVP that is non-consensual. Will that be enough? Only time will tell on that one.
Let's these carebears cry and left, who cares, they arent' so important. Ia a niche game for people who like FFA/PVP and full loot specifically, there is no space left for wow crybabies bored of their grindfest themepark.
This post doesnt rly make any sence to me...
Whats so hardcore about Red Alert.. its not even an mmo >.<
Never played UO but I guess this part is rational
Mordred?
I heard Shadowbane was very shit at release, thats why it became free.
Whats so hardcore bout AoC and its community and patches... its pretty much a themepark mmo with some gore?
I didnt laugh at Darkfall for trying... I cried.
This is true, I do laugh at EvE because I hate spaceships..
So... Why not?
Thats why they have Counterstrike & Battlefield ....!
Every MMORPG since Everquest/Ashron's Call has been softcore... as even these games have gone softcore themselves in hopes of grabbing the -Zeno- newbie crowd..!
Let me guess, you started playing UO 4 years after it was released.... ~ seems like you've never played a full fledged MMORPG before. There is more to do in a real mmorpg than just combat..!
Let-alone just pvp...
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
You know what? You can blame the victim all you want, but anyone who has enough sense to analyze a situation knows that it's the griefers that make policy in PvP change, not the people whose fun you ruin by being an ass.
If MO goes that path, know that it's not the general player's fault or even the REAL hardcore player's fault, its people like YOU who ruin games like this because you feel some sense of achievement from taking advantage of people.
Then when you're sitting there scratching your head and wondering why nobody will log on and let you stab them, you'll only have yourself to blame., and I garuntee that YOU will be the one not playing in three months.
Kinda funny this thread... for all those people who played UO back when it came out, and i mean really think on this, the game was never advertised to be a FFA PVP game, what i find intresting is that MO hasnt said that they are marketing this as a FFA pvp game either. its marketed as a open seemless world made with skills and real life mechanics, im curious where all the sudden people think that just because its a FFA that it automatically makes it a PvP centric game, ever think that maybe its just a virtual world with the same abilities to kill someone in the real world?
AT LEAST WE WILL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO BUY THIS GAME HOOOOOOOOOOOO!
MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).
So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.
Anyway, your main point seems based around these games actually being good. Sorry to tell you but people quite these because they were SHIT, nothing to do with PK. I think I might have been killed 4 times on my way to 80 in AoC on aquilonia. Its just a shit game. Darkfall? Cant even bring my self to insult it, its worse than soulja boy and you know how bad he is? He's so bad he can be mocked using spongebob squarepants videos. THATS FUCKING SHIT! Now mortal, could be actually be a good game, but this is something you like to overlook, you are preparing for it to fail by readying this crazy idea that we are going to quit because of griefers. You dont know very much abut this game do you?
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
When you use phrases like "you ruined", "you cried" etc. , it sounds like your intend is to mock/blame the players who quit the game or the players who never tried the game in the first place. If games can't retain players, is that the fault of the players or the game? Are you trying to send the message that people will ruin the game or that there are alot of people who THINK they will enjoy the game but won't like a PVP-centric game once they actually experience it? If it's the latter, just say so, without the bluster. You could just say that it will suffer "the mordred problem", just like Darkfall, and leave it at that. http://brokentoys.org/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/
That being said, Mortal Online will have a flagging and stat-loss system similar to pre-trammel UO. The intent is to allow open PVP but discourage PVP that is non-consensual. Will that be enough? Only time will tell on that one.
Without the player, there is no game. Players will ruin the game. It does not matter how the developers create it or what options they give. Yes, some of the options will detract from the game (for me it would be first person view in this game).
Its odd, you go around and never hear bad things about UO. Various people who played it years ago say its the best game ever, and went downhill after trammel was created. Trammel was created to have safe zones. WoW is the same, full of safe zones. How many people say WoW is the best game ever? Very few, its a fast food MMO, its good for passing time, and looking neat.
MO is going to join the niche market, can the developers and investers handle that? Well, I can answer that, most likely a yes. Shadowbane paid for itself, and look at it now (dead), but they did not use middleware to create the game. Its not the only thing dead now, DAoC Mordred is down.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
well MO is created to be RPG, not a FFA PvP gank fest, even if am sure there will be some, if not alot, "red flagged", even if there is alot of "legal" PvP, MMOs should be social or there really isnt anything special about them....create the us against the enemy (to be created, if it would be guilds, other races, or thieves), so as long there is something to fight over, one happy person here.
Atleast in this game there is alot of focus on the PvE side as well....main thing needed to avoid the gank fest, if PvP is the only thing to do, it would be a online CS
Without the player, there is no game. Players will ruin the game. It does not matter how the developers create it or what options they give. Yes, some of the options will detract from the game (for me it would be first person view in this game).
Its odd, you go around and never hear bad things about UO. Various people who played it years ago say its the best game ever, and went downhill after trammel was created. Trammel was created to have safe zones. WoW is the same, full of safe zones. How many people say WoW is the best game ever? Very few, its a fast food MMO, its good for passing time, and looking neat.
MO is going to join the niche market, can the developers and investers handle that? Well, I can answer that, most likely a yes. Shadowbane paid for itself, and look at it now (dead), but they did not use middleware to create the game. Its not the only thing dead now, DAoC Mordred is down.
Players will ruin the game? Are you advocating that they never release the game so that it can remain in its imaginary perfected state? Or saying that if the developers take players requests and change the game without gibing much thought to the direction of the game that it will make the game worse in the long run? Obviously some people will try the game and decide they don't like it (because of the open PVP, or because its first-person perspective, or whatever) Without trying the game in the first place, they'll never figure out if they like it or not. It sounds like you are trying to warn people away from MO because they may not like it, or that if the game is good, it will get changed (Trammelized, if you like the term) at which point they won't like it anymore.
Compared to WOW, MO most likely will "join the niche market". It's good to make sure people understand what the game is about so they can have some idea of whether it appeals to them, but vague warnings that "You, reading this, will quit MO." is pretty useless. Some people will and some won't . To find it's niche, though, people have to try it in the first place. "Can the developers and investors handle that?" You give the examples of Shadowbane and Mordred, both of which have tanked. As another example there is EVE which has found it's niche. It's been going 6 years and is still going strong (and it's subscriber base is continuing to grow if I understand correctly).
As for "using middle-ware", well it may make operating the game more expensive, but it does help to cut the development time significantly. The Unreal engine has been used in plenty of other games, so obviously that factor by itself won't kill it.
If you think there is something specific wrong with Mortal Online, come out and say it, instead of all this nihilistic prophecy of failure. All I can say is, if the game sounds appealing to someone and they are willing to deal with open PVP (but not free-for-all PVP) then they should go ahead and try it.
@Zeno:
I guess I don't understand your point. Are you warning people that they won't like they game and it will fail, or are you trying to keep them away so they don't change it in a way you don't like.