Honestly, I'm sick of the F2P discussions. I wish there was a way to disable viewing F2P games, add's, and content on this site.
I have tried F2P games and this is how they have all broken down for me:
1) They look and feel cheap or like cheap knock-off's of other titles. I would liken F2P games to 'swapmeet louis (vuitton)'. Sure, nearly every game on the market takes ideas from the games that came before it... but for me, F2P's all seem like generic, gub'ment cheese versions.
2) F2P games = bait and switch, imho. Free to play, pay to win.
3) Grinders. Maybe in other regions of this planet 'group grinding' is cool. For me, however, it's not. No, I'm not looking for instant gratification, but I'm not looking to spend 2-3 hours a night in a region with 3-4 other people killing the same mobs. That's not fun and it's not the type of experience that will keep me playing a game.
Again, I wish MMORPG.COM were able to offer 2 sections... a F2P game section and another for subscription based games. When I want to look over the fence and check out the F2P games, I can. Just sick of having them in my face everytime I come to this site.
I don’t think Richard is a plant for Asian grinders, but on his own admission he seems to have never played a subscription game. And as certain fact, if he has he did not get past the first few levels as that’s all he ever plays.
He is then far more in touch with the people who make and run MMO’s than he is with the players, hence his reception here. What goes down well at the company water cooler will often get short shrift from the players.
I think we are a little hard on Richard here. I may not agree with the guy, but I don't think he's a plant for the asian grinders or anything like that. The industry is changing, and Richard is only discussing the changes, as we are here. Personally, I think the changes in the industry are for the worse, because the focus from the MMO publishers is so different today than what it once was. I remember when MMOs first went mainstream back in the early '90s with UO. The game wasn't designed to extract money from the players. It was designed to be a great game, and sold on the shelves alongside other games. To tell you the truth, if those guys at Origin had it their way, they wouldn't charge the monthly at all, because the monthly kept the game out of many hands (my own included). The monthly wasn't about making uber-cash back then. The monthly was about paying the bills. And I remember the whole way they tried to sell the monthly to us in the FAQs of that time. Specifically, the monthly would be used to make the game better. The way they made money was through the boxes, not the monthly. And as a result, we got a lot of nice staff to solve CS issues, run live events, and create content during that era. We paid more, but we also got more. Somewhere along the line, the publishers stopped thinking about the monthly as a way to pay the bills, and started to think about the monthly as the thing they sold. The monthly was no longer justified to players as a thing that made the game better, but more like a player's "membership dues." Anything extra was an extra charge, most commonly in the form of expansion packs you'd get off the shelf. We pay a lot more now, but we get so much less today. Staff has been cut, development is funneled into $30 and $15 expansion packs, and the games are no longer a synergy between developers and players like it once was. The only thing a box buys us these days is an opportunity to buy a sub. And the only thing a sub buys us is server access. Buying into a subscription-based MMO today makes a whole lot less sense today than it did back then...and even then it didn't make much sense. We've gotten used to the idea, but the whole mindset of the publishers today is about giving us the least amount of game possible for the most amount of money possible. And that's the real thing that stinks about the microtransaction games. It's not about financing a well-designed game, like in the old days. It's about designing a game around a finance model, which means that the game is purposely designed to be a disappointment unless you throw more money into it. The only reason I picked up SWG in 2003 was that it gave me more game for less money than I would otherwise spend. Since that time, so many other games have stepped up their operations to include all the things that made MMOs such a good value...like frequent content updates and online play over common servers...and get this...all for one single payment of $50 or less that you spend at the counter at your local Best Buy! Compared with that, WoW looks like a scam. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm all about what Richard is trying to say when he wants to take down the "entry costs" to this form of internet entertainment. However, I'm not sure that microtransactions are the way to make this genre appealing. And the reason is this: offering "more game for more money" isn't the thing that made MMOs appealing in the early days. It was the fact that MMOs gave a person "more game for less money" that made MMOs better than online peer-to-peer and single player. But it seems today that this whole concept is better met by the new peer-to-peer and single player games; games that offer a whole lot more game for a much lower cost to the consumer than a similar experience in an MMO.
Agreed, most mmos really dont gie you much, i mean look at wow theirs a content what once every 2 years? and it cost you 30 bucks?
But a few got it right.
Look at LoTRO Book 8 is free, the mines of Moria cost and is really only for max level character. Then theres city of heroes.
16 free issues in 5 years: which added inventions (customizing power effects), lots of nerfs, new classes and powers, Mission creation, power customization, weapon customization, PVP zones, and much more all for free. The only Add on? City of Villians whick let you make well Villians, and going Rogur which lets you explore a new zone (pretoria) and switch sides
I think a lot of people are being a little naive about the whole F2P cash shop system. I don't blame people for forming a negative opinion of it, because the MMO market is flooded with sub-par titles and asian grindfest MMOs. The flaw isn't in the cash shop system, it's in the games themselves, or the developers of the games.
Does cash shop have anything to do with a completely unimaginative world, recycled gameplay mechanics, and poor polish? I don't necessarily believe that. For instance, Atlantica Online, while it may not be a STELLAR game, still has it's good points and was indeed inventive with the turn-based battle system.
Does cash shop have anything to do with people spending extra money on their MMO? Far from the truth. It's obvious that PLENTY of people each day spend money for WoW gold, EVE ISK, and GW platinum. In fact, from the latest headline about the end of Chinese gold farming, it was a multi-billion yuan a year industry! Plenty of people get online and spend real money on in game currency so they can twink characters, craft the new epic pieces, buy the new cool mount, etc. It's a fact of life, people WANT to spend the money to get the items.
The REAL problems with F2P games is that they are cookie-cutter and unimaginative. I don't know how many F2P games I've tried and thought, "Wow, this again?" or, "Gee, warrior, priest, or mage, Oh My!" I also hate to see the same whack-a-mole style gameplay, but even that is reiterated in P2P games.
Granted, plenty of the F2P games have the unfair advantages of XP potions, no Death Penalty potions, extra damage, etc etc etc. But there are a few F2P games out there that don't have these items. That the cash shop is for cosmetics, access to new zones, etc. And, in the end, this is not so far off from a P2P game. You pay a monthly fee that funds the developers to create that new content for you to visit, and in these F2P titles, you're doing the very same thing, only at your own pace, not at the pace the developer chooses for you.
I think F2P has a ways to come before being a solid investment or worth mentioning next to a P2P title, but the fact is MMOs are migrating in this direction. I hope to see better management of a cash shop, and peope spending money on that cash shop so the developers make the money they need to put out quality games and content. Just not in the fashion that past Asian MMO grinders have portrayed them to be.
"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life." Simone Weil
I've played a few web-based online games that are F2P but with 'currency' you buy with real cash to get stuff-- all kinds of stuff! I can see how that is cool for the people who buy the coinage and reap the rewards, but a lot of people who play F2P games are playing them because, well, they are Free to Play. If they could pay, they'd play something else. I know it doesn't cost *too* much, but for people with moths flapping out of their wallets, spending a few bucks on game-coinage is sure to cause guilt, as that money could have gone to bills, food, clothes, or some RL entertainment that lasts longer than five minutes. Sure, most of those games offer ways to acquire the 'currency' through somewhat normal gameplay, but in the games I have played, it is very difficult and a very small amount. I don't knock the people who pay-- that is the point! That is what the creators want you to do, and it keeps the game/site running (and perhaps funds further development). So if you can and want to, go for it and have a blast!
I played DDO a couple years ago and I enjoyed it greatly. I only stopped playing because of LOTRO's release. I find it hard to picture it as a F2P game and to buy something like access to the zone of Waterworks, when said zone was always there, but it is their game and if they think they will get more players and money that way, go right ahead! Like I said, I play LOTRO now, so it doesn't affect me.
Anyhow, my rambles are explanatory and my point is this: Subscription AND F2P in one game? I take it you meant you pay monthly and then pay more for extras. I am absolutely horrified at this idea. You are shelling out fifty bucks or more to get the game, then fifteen a month for however long. Are you telling me that you want the company to then charge us additional money to get some cool stuff? So all the richer folk are bedecked and bedazzled from all their bought gear/items/points/whatever, and the normal folk have to suffer with unbalance and crappier things, because you can bet everything will be nerfed so that the truly good items are in the store and everything else is garbage. Isn't it bad enough to deal with that situation in the real world, without having it spill over into the virtual worlds we escape to precisely to forget such troubles for a while?
Subscription + Store = Worst thing that could happen to any game, let alone my precious MMOs. You just leave them alone!
My only thought is that if you are calling it "free to play" then make sure it is truly free to play. No hidden you need to buy x or y in order to go here or do this or that. That is not free. That is restricted play unless you play. Be honest and upfront about in your advertising.
If you're going to be free to play, make sure you have sponsors and advertisers to cover your costs. Don't build in a bunch of hidden crap that you find out after the fact costs you real world dollars to gain acess to.
That's as close to false advertising as I think you can get and I'm surprised no one has sued over it yet (other than the fact that it is games)
I think a lot of people are being a little naive about the whole F2P cash shop system. I don't blame people for forming a negative opinion of it, because the MMO market is flooded with sub-par titles and asian grindfest MMOs. The flaw isn't in the cash shop system, it's in the games themselves, or the developers of the games. Does cash shop have anything to do with a completely unimaginative world, recycled gameplay mechanics, and poor polish? I don't necessarily believe that. For instance, Atlantica Online, while it may not be a STELLAR game, still has it's good points and was indeed inventive with the turn-based battle system. Does cash shop have anything to do with people spending extra money on their MMO? Far from the truth. It's obvious that PLENTY of people each day spend money for WoW gold, EVE ISK, and GW platinum. In fact, from the latest headline about the end of Chinese gold farming, it was a multi-billion yuan a year industry! Plenty of people get online and spend real money on in game currency so they can twink characters, craft the new epic pieces, buy the new cool mount, etc. It's a fact of life, people WANT to spend the money to get the items. The REAL problems with F2P games is that they are cookie-cutter and unimaginative. I don't know how many F2P games I've tried and thought, "Wow, this again?" or, "Gee, warrior, priest, or mage, Oh My!" I also hate to see the same whack-a-mole style gameplay, but even that is reiterated in P2P games. Granted, plenty of the F2P games have the unfair advantages of XP potions, no Death Penalty potions, extra damage, etc etc etc. But there are a few F2P games out there that don't have these items. That the cash shop is for cosmetics, access to new zones, etc. And, in the end, this is not so far off from a P2P game. You pay a monthly fee that funds the developers to create that new content for you to visit, and in these F2P titles, you're doing the very same thing, only at your own pace, not at the pace the developer chooses for you. I think F2P has a ways to come before being a solid investment or worth mentioning next to a P2P title, but the fact is MMOs are migrating in this direction. I hope to see better management of a cash shop, and peope spending money on that cash shop so the developers make the money they need to put out quality games and content. Just not in the fashion that past Asian MMO grinders have portrayed them to be.
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
I think a lot of people are being a little naive about the whole F2P cash shop system. I don't blame people for forming a negative opinion of it, because the MMO market is flooded with sub-par titles and asian grindfest MMOs. The flaw isn't in the cash shop system, it's in the games themselves, or the developers of the games. Does cash shop have anything to do with a completely unimaginative world, recycled gameplay mechanics, and poor polish? I don't necessarily believe that. For instance, Atlantica Online, while it may not be a STELLAR game, still has it's good points and was indeed inventive with the turn-based battle system. Does cash shop have anything to do with people spending extra money on their MMO? Far from the truth. It's obvious that PLENTY of people each day spend money for WoW gold, EVE ISK, and GW platinum. In fact, from the latest headline about the end of Chinese gold farming, it was a multi-billion yuan a year industry! Plenty of people get online and spend real money on in game currency so they can twink characters, craft the new epic pieces, buy the new cool mount, etc. It's a fact of life, people WANT to spend the money to get the items. The REAL problems with F2P games is that they are cookie-cutter and unimaginative. I don't know how many F2P games I've tried and thought, "Wow, this again?" or, "Gee, warrior, priest, or mage, Oh My!" I also hate to see the same whack-a-mole style gameplay, but even that is reiterated in P2P games. Granted, plenty of the F2P games have the unfair advantages of XP potions, no Death Penalty potions, extra damage, etc etc etc. But there are a few F2P games out there that don't have these items. That the cash shop is for cosmetics, access to new zones, etc. And, in the end, this is not so far off from a P2P game. You pay a monthly fee that funds the developers to create that new content for you to visit, and in these F2P titles, you're doing the very same thing, only at your own pace, not at the pace the developer chooses for you. I think F2P has a ways to come before being a solid investment or worth mentioning next to a P2P title, but the fact is MMOs are migrating in this direction. I hope to see better management of a cash shop, and peope spending money on that cash shop so the developers make the money they need to put out quality games and content. Just not in the fashion that past Asian MMO grinders have portrayed them to be.
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
I would be okay with hour plans. In fact there are several models I would be okay with. When the business model starts envading in game though, I will not play. I don't play games to have real life money to affect my in game experience. I play games to be in that world and out of this one for a bit for some immersion and fun. I want my character to have earned everything he has or if he didn't how would it be believable or realisticaly did he just obtain that gold or item? Swiping a credit card isn't video gaming to me. That ruins all immersion. My character obtaining a sword automatically in his inventory because I swiped a credit card outside of game is the farthest thing you can get from a fun gaming experience.
If they can make money out of gameplay fine by me. I will never play f2p games with item shops and I will definitely not play P2P games with item shops. Not only that shows the ultimate greed, I find it silly for all the reasons I listed above. Now lets discuss better alternatives than these ignorant item shops.
1. Pay by the hour option - Instead of paying monthly maybe someone that doesn't play as much could opt to pay by the hour. Of course if you played all month the monthly plan should come out a little cheaper for incentive to pay for the whole month. This is nothing more than an extension of the current plans but in a smaller scale. Currently most games offer monthy, 3 months, 6 months, etc plans.
2. Advertisements - If advertisements are not in the game itself but on the game webpage, forums, loading screens, and login screen it doesn't affect me in the game world.
3. Sell out of game merchandise - Maybe the games should sell speciality design keyboards that are really efficent for their game, t-shirts, mugs, etc
I am sure there are many more ideas but there are some ideas I can think of that are not invasive like the item shops.
Don't support Sony Online with play Everquest and other such games. They are the ones pushing this greed on us. Not only they want us to pay the normal 15/month which other games ask. They also added an item shop to milk their playerbase further. While other games give you all content with your sub, SOE has decided to milk it's players for items that would be obtained in other games included with your sub or would have a better alternative.
Point me to a F2P (RMT) MMO that is as good as LotR, AoC, CoH or WoW. For all their faults our subscription based games leave the RMT MMO's in their wake.
So on what basis are RMT's going to give us better games?
ty so much MR. RICHARD .AFTER READING YOUR TOPICS ON F2P I GAVE A TRY TO MANY F2P GAMES AND I FOUND DRAGONICA SOUTH EAST ASIA .IT HAS A MICROTRANSACTION MODEL BUT ITS CHEAP AS U HAVE TO PAY IN MALAYSIAN RINGIT .AND ALSO I BELONG TO PKAISTAN .SO ASIA SERVER MEAN LESS LAG FOR ME. TY SO MUCH AGAIN.
Point me to a F2P (RMT) MMO that is as good as LotR, AoC, CoH or WoW. For all their faults our subscription based games leave the RMT MMO's in their wake. So on what basis are RMT's going to give us better games?
runes of magic is a triple A f2p MMO, thus proving your all idiots who went against my post. Runes proves you can make quality with an item mall, making it a free to play worth playing.
I never said some F2P were not better than others, I have heard Atlantica online like RoM is quite good. But as good as our best subscription games, I think not!
I never said some F2P were not better than others, I have heard Atlantica online like RoM is quite good. But as good as our best subscription games, I think not!
rom isnt = to wow yet for small issue but dont party yet because come september the minimum rom will be is = to any game out there yes even wow
i can say for a beta ,yep rom is a beta game ,its an insally good one
if i compare it to aion beta
it = quality but in my view more fun feature in rom
1 small problem plague rom
it has to do with all and i mean all transition point from starting game to going in instance
when you transit it make other player in area lag the more transfer point in your area the worst
the more player in the area make it even worst
logar is the worst i saw yet but logar is always packed with player and there is at least 3 transit point in logar area
so it lag pretty bad at time but it isnt too invasive
one advice if you used curse.com auto update add-on program for wow in the past dont used it yet in rom
I never said some F2P were not better than others, I have heard Atlantica online like RoM is quite good. But as good as our best subscription games, I think not!
You are correct they are not good games at all. Runes of Magic is nothing but a cheap copy of WoW.
What's the point of playing a mmo if at the end, you can buy stuff otherwise you'll have to work for it ? There is no achievement feeling in paying RL money for an ingame item. However working hard to get that special item that very few peoples have, now that's something. How much money you can spend in a virtual game should not affect how powerful/succesful you are in that game. For me RMT games are for the lazy.
i totally agree, i would rather spend my hard playing hours working toward my goal of certain items then instead of being lazy and just paying money for it. I want to have fun playing a game, not to have it just handed to me cuz i have the money.
A thought For your Buying items dillema. Most mmos Gold shops or whatever you wanna call em are Rip's. Making you buy items to even be able to advance in the game. Were otheres sell things like. Using PWI as an Example.
50% more exp for 30 mins.
Or Special mounts.
or special clothing.
Or Mabie instead of spending 10 hours Farming Materials for trade skills. if you have the money you can go buy them.
Not to mention some of them. You can use in game money you have collected to buy money for the "shop" So you technically don't need to spend real money ever.
Comments
Honestly, I'm sick of the F2P discussions. I wish there was a way to disable viewing F2P games, add's, and content on this site.
I have tried F2P games and this is how they have all broken down for me:
1) They look and feel cheap or like cheap knock-off's of other titles. I would liken F2P games to 'swapmeet louis (vuitton)'. Sure, nearly every game on the market takes ideas from the games that came before it... but for me, F2P's all seem like generic, gub'ment cheese versions.
2) F2P games = bait and switch, imho. Free to play, pay to win.
3) Grinders. Maybe in other regions of this planet 'group grinding' is cool. For me, however, it's not. No, I'm not looking for instant gratification, but I'm not looking to spend 2-3 hours a night in a region with 3-4 other people killing the same mobs. That's not fun and it's not the type of experience that will keep me playing a game.
Again, I wish MMORPG.COM were able to offer 2 sections... a F2P game section and another for subscription based games. When I want to look over the fence and check out the F2P games, I can. Just sick of having them in my face everytime I come to this site.
More articles about new F2P system in coming DDO:U
www.massively.com/2009/06/30/massivelys-ddo-unlimited-developer-tour/
www.tentonhammer.com/node/69960
www.tentonhammer.com/node/70586
Polish Sword Coast Legends Portal http://www.swordcoast.pl/
SwordCoast.pl Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SwordCoastPL/
SwordCoast.pl Twitter: https://twitter.com/SwordCoastPL
Polish Neverwinter Portal http://www.neverwinter.com.pl/
Polish D&D Online Portal http://www.ddopl.com
DDOpl Twitter: http://twitter.com/DDOpl
Great DDO PodCast by Jerry & co. http://www.ddocast.com
I don’t think Richard is a plant for Asian grinders, but on his own admission he seems to have never played a subscription game. And as certain fact, if he has he did not get past the first few levels as that’s all he ever plays.
He is then far more in touch with the people who make and run MMO’s than he is with the players, hence his reception here. What goes down well at the company water cooler will often get short shrift from the players.
Agreed, most mmos really dont gie you much, i mean look at wow theirs a content what once every 2 years? and it cost you 30 bucks?
But a few got it right.
Look at LoTRO Book 8 is free, the mines of Moria cost and is really only for max level character. Then theres city of heroes.
16 free issues in 5 years: which added inventions (customizing power effects), lots of nerfs, new classes and powers, Mission creation, power customization, weapon customization, PVP zones, and much more all for free. The only Add on? City of Villians whick let you make well Villians, and going Rogur which lets you explore a new zone (pretoria) and switch sides
Any form of micro transaction is just no go.... not ethical ...
The games aren't F2P either because the game constitutes the elements you have to pay for which means you are just playing a taster.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I think a lot of people are being a little naive about the whole F2P cash shop system. I don't blame people for forming a negative opinion of it, because the MMO market is flooded with sub-par titles and asian grindfest MMOs. The flaw isn't in the cash shop system, it's in the games themselves, or the developers of the games.
Does cash shop have anything to do with a completely unimaginative world, recycled gameplay mechanics, and poor polish? I don't necessarily believe that. For instance, Atlantica Online, while it may not be a STELLAR game, still has it's good points and was indeed inventive with the turn-based battle system.
Does cash shop have anything to do with people spending extra money on their MMO? Far from the truth. It's obvious that PLENTY of people each day spend money for WoW gold, EVE ISK, and GW platinum. In fact, from the latest headline about the end of Chinese gold farming, it was a multi-billion yuan a year industry! Plenty of people get online and spend real money on in game currency so they can twink characters, craft the new epic pieces, buy the new cool mount, etc. It's a fact of life, people WANT to spend the money to get the items.
The REAL problems with F2P games is that they are cookie-cutter and unimaginative. I don't know how many F2P games I've tried and thought, "Wow, this again?" or, "Gee, warrior, priest, or mage, Oh My!" I also hate to see the same whack-a-mole style gameplay, but even that is reiterated in P2P games.
Granted, plenty of the F2P games have the unfair advantages of XP potions, no Death Penalty potions, extra damage, etc etc etc. But there are a few F2P games out there that don't have these items. That the cash shop is for cosmetics, access to new zones, etc. And, in the end, this is not so far off from a P2P game. You pay a monthly fee that funds the developers to create that new content for you to visit, and in these F2P titles, you're doing the very same thing, only at your own pace, not at the pace the developer chooses for you.
I think F2P has a ways to come before being a solid investment or worth mentioning next to a P2P title, but the fact is MMOs are migrating in this direction. I hope to see better management of a cash shop, and peope spending money on that cash shop so the developers make the money they need to put out quality games and content. Just not in the fashion that past Asian MMO grinders have portrayed them to be.
"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life."
Simone Weil
I've played a few web-based online games that are F2P but with 'currency' you buy with real cash to get stuff-- all kinds of stuff! I can see how that is cool for the people who buy the coinage and reap the rewards, but a lot of people who play F2P games are playing them because, well, they are Free to Play. If they could pay, they'd play something else. I know it doesn't cost *too* much, but for people with moths flapping out of their wallets, spending a few bucks on game-coinage is sure to cause guilt, as that money could have gone to bills, food, clothes, or some RL entertainment that lasts longer than five minutes. Sure, most of those games offer ways to acquire the 'currency' through somewhat normal gameplay, but in the games I have played, it is very difficult and a very small amount. I don't knock the people who pay-- that is the point! That is what the creators want you to do, and it keeps the game/site running (and perhaps funds further development). So if you can and want to, go for it and have a blast!
I played DDO a couple years ago and I enjoyed it greatly. I only stopped playing because of LOTRO's release. I find it hard to picture it as a F2P game and to buy something like access to the zone of Waterworks, when said zone was always there, but it is their game and if they think they will get more players and money that way, go right ahead! Like I said, I play LOTRO now, so it doesn't affect me.
Anyhow, my rambles are explanatory and my point is this: Subscription AND F2P in one game? I take it you meant you pay monthly and then pay more for extras. I am absolutely horrified at this idea. You are shelling out fifty bucks or more to get the game, then fifteen a month for however long. Are you telling me that you want the company to then charge us additional money to get some cool stuff? So all the richer folk are bedecked and bedazzled from all their bought gear/items/points/whatever, and the normal folk have to suffer with unbalance and crappier things, because you can bet everything will be nerfed so that the truly good items are in the store and everything else is garbage. Isn't it bad enough to deal with that situation in the real world, without having it spill over into the virtual worlds we escape to precisely to forget such troubles for a while?
Subscription + Store = Worst thing that could happen to any game, let alone my precious MMOs. You just leave them alone!
My only thought is that if you are calling it "free to play" then make sure it is truly free to play. No hidden you need to buy x or y in order to go here or do this or that. That is not free. That is restricted play unless you play. Be honest and upfront about in your advertising.
If you're going to be free to play, make sure you have sponsors and advertisers to cover your costs. Don't build in a bunch of hidden crap that you find out after the fact costs you real world dollars to gain acess to.
That's as close to false advertising as I think you can get and I'm surprised no one has sued over it yet (other than the fact that it is games)
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
I would be okay with hour plans. In fact there are several models I would be okay with. When the business model starts envading in game though, I will not play. I don't play games to have real life money to affect my in game experience. I play games to be in that world and out of this one for a bit for some immersion and fun. I want my character to have earned everything he has or if he didn't how would it be believable or realisticaly did he just obtain that gold or item? Swiping a credit card isn't video gaming to me. That ruins all immersion. My character obtaining a sword automatically in his inventory because I swiped a credit card outside of game is the farthest thing you can get from a fun gaming experience.
If they can make money out of gameplay fine by me. I will never play f2p games with item shops and I will definitely not play P2P games with item shops. Not only that shows the ultimate greed, I find it silly for all the reasons I listed above. Now lets discuss better alternatives than these ignorant item shops.
1. Pay by the hour option - Instead of paying monthly maybe someone that doesn't play as much could opt to pay by the hour. Of course if you played all month the monthly plan should come out a little cheaper for incentive to pay for the whole month. This is nothing more than an extension of the current plans but in a smaller scale. Currently most games offer monthy, 3 months, 6 months, etc plans.
2. Advertisements - If advertisements are not in the game itself but on the game webpage, forums, loading screens, and login screen it doesn't affect me in the game world.
3. Sell out of game merchandise - Maybe the games should sell speciality design keyboards that are really efficent for their game, t-shirts, mugs, etc
I am sure there are many more ideas but there are some ideas I can think of that are not invasive like the item shops.
Don't support Sony Online with play Everquest and other such games. They are the ones pushing this greed on us. Not only they want us to pay the normal 15/month which other games ask. They also added an item shop to milk their playerbase further. While other games give you all content with your sub, SOE has decided to milk it's players for items that would be obtained in other games included with your sub or would have a better alternative.
Point me to a F2P (RMT) MMO that is as good as LotR, AoC, CoH or WoW. For all their faults our subscription based games leave the RMT MMO's in their wake.
So on what basis are RMT's going to give us better games?
ty so much MR. RICHARD .AFTER READING YOUR TOPICS ON F2P I GAVE A TRY TO MANY F2P GAMES AND I FOUND DRAGONICA SOUTH EAST ASIA .IT HAS A MICROTRANSACTION MODEL BUT ITS CHEAP AS U HAVE TO PAY IN MALAYSIAN RINGIT .AND ALSO I BELONG TO PKAISTAN .SO ASIA SERVER MEAN LESS LAG FOR ME. TY SO MUCH AGAIN.
runes of magic is a triple A f2p MMO, thus proving your all idiots who went against my post. Runes proves you can make quality with an item mall, making it a free to play worth playing.
I never said some F2P were not better than others, I have heard Atlantica online like RoM is quite good. But as good as our best subscription games, I think not!
rom isnt = to wow yet for small issue but dont party yet because come september the minimum rom will be is = to any game out there yes even wow
i can say for a beta ,yep rom is a beta game ,its an insally good one
if i compare it to aion beta
it = quality but in my view more fun feature in rom
1 small problem plague rom
it has to do with all and i mean all transition point from starting game to going in instance
when you transit it make other player in area lag the more transfer point in your area the worst
the more player in the area make it even worst
logar is the worst i saw yet but logar is always packed with player and there is at least 3 transit point in logar area
so it lag pretty bad at time but it isnt too invasive
one advice if you used curse.com auto update add-on program for wow in the past dont used it yet in rom
wait till its fixed
manually install add-on instead
You are correct they are not good games at all. Runes of Magic is nothing but a cheap copy of WoW.
i totally agree, i would rather spend my hard playing hours working toward my goal of certain items then instead of being lazy and just paying money for it. I want to have fun playing a game, not to have it just handed to me cuz i have the money.
A thought For your Buying items dillema. Most mmos Gold shops or whatever you wanna call em are Rip's. Making you buy items to even be able to advance in the game. Were otheres sell things like. Using PWI as an Example.
50% more exp for 30 mins.
Or Special mounts.
or special clothing.
Or Mabie instead of spending 10 hours Farming Materials for trade skills. if you have the money you can go buy them.
Not to mention some of them. You can use in game money you have collected to buy money for the "shop" So you technically don't need to spend real money ever.