I don't agree that LOTRO is a WoW clone. I've played both for a very long time and they do not share the same deep core elements as each other. LOTRO could be 10 times better than it is, but Turbine is weak compared to Blizzard.
Wen I say a game is a "WoW clone", I don't mean that wow invented the formula. I mean that follow the same formula than WoW. I also think is accurate description, because most WoW clones are wow wanabees. Wen I read people that say "no, Is not a Wow clone, is a MMO clone" I feel sad. And I think that person have not played enough MMO games. There are wildly different MMO's games that play really different. Skill based, world mmos, games with space ships (like EVE), games about crafting (like A Tale in the Deset). I feel sad that exist people that think all games are like WoW. LOTRO is a good game, but at the time, was designed to be as similar as WOW as posible, withouth breaking the law. At it shows.
Wow's "formula" was developed from taking concepts from games that came out before it such as Everquest and Asheron's Call and improving upon those ideas and making them more casual player friendly. So they actually do have a point when they gripe about people balking about games being a "WoW clone".
I will agree with you about Eve though. That game is about as different as you can get from other mmos. I don't care for the game, but my hat goes off to them for making a unique game compared to the norm. Outside of that one however they all seem to follow the same formula from what I have seen when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it. Some mmos offer different mechanics, level of "difficulty", soloability variation, but the inherent concepts tend to be the same whether you're talking about Rings, WoW, Final Fantasy, etc.
Frankly, I love the genre so it works for me. At this point those that complain about this just seem to be burned out on these types of games in general and probably just need a break from them for a while. Others want something that could never really exist because it just isn't realistically possible at least at this point in time.
EDIT: Wow, should have read back a bit farther. Gestalt's post explains it far better than I ever could have. Very well said although I think Rings fits the model as well but I'm fine with that. Whether they want to admit it or not most of the other games people try saying don't fit into that model do as well.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree that LOTRO gameplay is faintly familiar to WoW. But WoW is familiar to several other MMO's that came out before it. It is what happens in a stale industry like the current MMO market. Think of it like movies... X-Men came out and did extremley well, before you knew it we had a flood of movies based off the same principals. Music is the same way.... A new band comes out that everyone loves the sound of, next thing you know there are 20 other bands that have the same style popping up out of no where. Unlike the music industry, it seems the MMO industry is unable to get away from one base. In music you have so many different styles you do have a choice. MMO market is much different (with the exception of EVE as pointed out). They see what has been a huge hit and emulate it hoping to strike it big as well. This leads to terrible stagnation as is evident. Give it a few more years and someone will come out with something that will redefine the industry once again (I had hopes for Richard Garriott... we saw how that ended... FAIL).
I know I ramble, but hopefully you understood the post lol.
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"I like wow, I like aion and I like AoC all for different reasons.....the later cause i get to see boobs, but still its a reason!!" - Sawlstone
Now LOTRO on the other hand does not only provide 100% identical classes, 100% identical items, 100% identical stats but also - and thats the killer: almost 100% identical carreers. There is no such thing as a choice for your own carreer. That history was already pre-written by turbine designers and is set in stone. In Eve you can choos to be a miner, bounty hunter, research and what not in the big pool of identical stats and skills you can create a unique carreer. In LOTRO you can't, you follow the identical quest lines - its like mass tourist attractions, you are herded through the theme park on iron rails with near to 0 alternatives. The canalised design is exagerated to a degree that even different classes share most of the carreer.
Very well put.
Many who did not like lotro could not put their finger on, why exactly. Because at first glance it is a solid game - good graphics, no obvious bugs and nice setting. What you say about LOTRO carreers is right, they are identically following the storylines and sharing most of the rewards. One big reason why i found it unintresting and boring.
The high rating here made me wander back to have another look at the game.
I have to agree with the OP. It's irritatingly lagtastic (I've given up on ever reaching level 20 without dying) , the graphics are so so, etc. etc. It's by no means an awful game, but it doesn't come close to deserving the top rating it has here.
The rune keeper class is a nice addition though. It'll broaden the game's appeal.
First off, I'd like to mention that all I've done is the 14-day trial, so I'm in no way an expert on LOTRO. I may not have played enough to be fully immersed in the game, but I felt like sharing my thoughts nonetheless.
As the title states, I don't think this game should have such a high rating. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it (I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I learned to read, and felt that the game perfectly complemented the books and movies); however, I don't think LOTRO is anything special. I could spend all day listing the similarities it has with WoW, but that would get boring, and most of you probably noticed them anyway. Mostly, though, I just thought LOTRO quickly got boring. The graphics are great; they're what drew me in initially. But for anyone who has ever played WoW, or any of its seemingly infinite clones, everything about this game will seem very redundant. In my 14 days of playing, I found absolutely nothing new or innovative. There was definitely nothing worth another $15 a month. So, does anyone out there agree with me? Feel free to share your thoughts.
Its not a Wow clone remember Wow clone everquest so.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
If done both WoW and LotRO since launch. Dropped WoW for LotRo and then tried all the others and came back to LotRO. Other people have stated it best, the professions are the same, the equipment is the same, the quest and lore are the same, which will ultimately doom LotRO. Some pluses and problems:
1. LotRO is graphically a beautiful game, when you set the settings on ultra high and just look at the scenery its beautiful, not cartoony like WoW.
2. In the beginning at least, you can go through an entire area (like the shire) and do minimual combat. Its not as grinding at the start, when you leave the shire and enter bree then it the grinding begins. The grindfest however never ends. Quests are always kill X mob and/or get X item from a mob. And deed grinding is the worst in the game.
3. What keeps most players playing is the end game. 90% of the game from levels 1-50 are pretty much solo with some exceptions. Heck you can go all 60 levels and NEVER join a group. But once you hit moria and you want the best gear and equipment you have no choice but to group, and this is why people keep playing it. Because they want to see how their class is in a group. Many many people have a ton of alts on the game (I have 4) and the biggest thrill was seeing for the first time how my class was in a group in a tough fight. I think that is what keeps people playing all the different classes. Learning how differently a champ, guard, warden and capt can tank is a big thrill to people in the game. I know when I was in a group with a captain I thought how cool was that, so I rolled up a captain just to see how cool he is end game.
4. The Lore. The lore is great in this game. Its a mixture of what happens to frodo and the company and a lot of backstory that isnt fleshed out in the books or movies. Yet the story is compelling. WoW can make up its own lore and no one would really care.
5. Crafting. I never liked it (I was an explorer) thought it was a waste of time, and still do. It will ultimately either make the game or break it. Right now, the best gear and equipment can not be player made, which is a shame. The crafting system needs to be reworked so that if you cant run a 12 man raid and get lucky to get the best weapon that the next best thing can be made for you. Everyone running around with the same armor and gear makes for boring play. The weapon system tried to vary that but it still is lame. You start with such a wide range of options and then it gets narrowed down to one thing that everyone wants.
6. Which is the theme of the game, and will doom it as well. The game starts very wide open. You can start in one of several areas, and you can level up in any of them, then it narrows you down as everyone funnels to Bree for quests, then it North Downs and Lonelands and then it opens up again around 35. You can go to misty mountains, trollshaws, angmar, or forochel and level up before everyone goes into moria.The game needs, after lothlorien, to open up again give u the option to explore rohan or mirhwood or another area instead of going on this linear track. Another poster touched on this, and I agree we are all being hearded around, and the game needs to open up and allow us to go where we want.
7. Finally, this game is starting to go through the best build syndrome. Every class was unique and different and you could play it that way within your own class. That has changed since people started to yell about DPS, the game is forcing players to a cookie cutter mold. Take RK's. Most people yelled that they were overpowered, yet you could be a damage specialist in fire, or frost or lightning and it was fun, you could enjoy yourself. After the new book, turbine has drastically increase the power requirements, the result all the RKs are now scrambling to get more power. The originiality and fun are gone. Almost all captains run around with the same trait, the same gear, etc. ...result: each captain is the same they are all healing slotted this ruins the ability of the class to be original. Which is funny because turbine's other game, ddo, is the complete opposite. No two classes are alike and people love to build unique classes. Turbine took a great idea (have three different options within each classes) and killed it. You wont see a sword and board champ or captain and if u do, most people wont group with them. When 99% of a class are slotted, traited the same way, there is no thought.
I love LotRO but I can see myself cancelling if book 9 doesnt make some serious fundamental changes to the game.
If done both WoW and LotRO since launch. Dropped WoW for LotRo and then tried all the others and came back to LotRO. Other people have stated it best, the professions are the same, the equipment is the same, the quest and lore are the same, which will ultimately doom LotRO. Some pluses and problems: 1. LotRO is graphically a beautiful game, when you set the settings on ultra high and just look at the scenery its beautiful, not cartoony like WoW. 2. In the beginning at least, you can go through an entire area (like the shire) and do minimual combat. Its not as grinding at the start, when you leave the shire and enter bree then it the grinding begins. The grindfest however never ends. Quests are always kill X mob and/or get X item from a mob. And deed grinding is the worst in the game. 3. What keeps most players playing is the end game. 90% of the game from levels 1-50 are pretty much solo with some exceptions. Heck you can go all 60 levels and NEVER join a group. But once you hit moria and you want the best gear and equipment you have no choice but to group, and this is why people keep playing it. Because they want to see how their class is in a group. Many many people have a ton of alts on the game (I have 4) and the biggest thrill was seeing for the first time how my class was in a group in a tough fight. I think that is what keeps people playing all the different classes. Learning how differently a champ, guard, warden and capt can tank is a big thrill to people in the game. I know when I was in a group with a captain I thought how cool was that, so I rolled up a captain just to see how cool he is end game. 4. The Lore. The lore is great in this game. Its a mixture of what happens to frodo and the company and a lot of backstory that isnt fleshed out in the books or movies. Yet the story is compelling. WoW can make up its own lore and no one would really care. 5. Crafting. I never liked it (I was an explorer) thought it was a waste of time, and still do. It will ultimately either make the game or break it. Right now, the best gear and equipment can not be player made, which is a shame. The crafting system needs to be reworked so that if you cant run a 12 man raid and get lucky to get the best weapon that the next best thing can be made for you. Everyone running around with the same armor and gear makes for boring play. The weapon system tried to vary that but it still is lame. You start with such a wide range of options and then it gets narrowed down to one thing that everyone wants. 6. Which is the theme of the game, and will doom it as well. The game starts very wide open. You can start in one of several areas, and you can level up in any of them, then it narrows you down as everyone funnels to Bree for quests, then it North Downs and Lonelands and then it opens up again around 35. You can go to misty mountains, trollshaws, angmar, or forochel and level up before everyone goes into moria.The game needs, after lothlorien, to open up again give u the option to explore rohan or mirhwood or another area instead of going on this linear track. Another poster touched on this, and I agree we are all being hearded around, and the game needs to open up and allow us to go where we want. 7. Finally, this game is starting to go through the best build syndrome. Every class was unique and different and you could play it that way within your own class. That has changed since people started to yell about DPS, the game is forcing players to a cookie cutter mold. Take RK's. Most people yelled that they were overpowered, yet you could be a damage specialist in fire, or frost or lightning and it was fun, you could enjoy yourself. After the new book, turbine has drastically increase the power requirements, the result all the RKs are now scrambling to get more power. The originiality and fun are gone. Almost all captains run around with the same trait, the same gear, etc. ...result: each captain is the same they are all healing slotted this ruins the ability of the class to be original. Which is funny because turbine's other game, ddo, is the complete opposite. No two classes are alike and people love to build unique classes. Turbine took a great idea (have three different options within each classes) and killed it. You wont see a sword and board champ or captain and if u do, most people wont group with them. When 99% of a class are slotted, traited the same way, there is no thought.
I love LotRO but I can see myself cancelling if book 9 doesnt make some serious fundamental changes to the game.
I am quoting your post solely for the purpose of showing all the trolls who have already posted here to show them WHY they are only trolling, and how/why you are not.
Sir, your post is an excellent form of fair criticism. Wish we could see this instead of the frustrated hater-posts already spoiling this thread.
I still love lotro, that does not mean that I don't agree with most of your points. Myself I am a little worried about the game, and are now taking a break from it again, hoping that there will be something new again to draw me back....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I'm a lifer so can't rly quit . But defenately agree that with Moria Lotro is not same anymore.
Although I do like Moria. But miss that feeling of exploration when I first entered ME. With Book9 they should bring more then just Mirkwood. New areas, same size as SOA.
2. In the beginning at least, you can go through an entire area (like the shire) and do minimual combat. Its not as grinding at the start, when you leave the shire and enter bree then it the grinding begins. The grindfest however never ends. Quests are always kill X mob and/or get X item from a mob. And deed grinding is the worst in the game. 5. Crafting. I never liked it (I was an explorer) thought it was a waste of time, and still do. It will ultimately either make the game or break it. Right now, the best gear and equipment can not be player made, which is a shame. The crafting system needs to be reworked so that if you cant run a 12 man raid and get lucky to get the best weapon that the next best thing can be made for you. Everyone running around with the same armor and gear makes for boring play. The weapon system tried to vary that but it still is lame. You start with such a wide range of options and then it gets narrowed down to one thing that everyone wants. 6. Which is the theme of the game, and will doom it as well. The game starts very wide open. You can start in one of several areas, and you can level up in any of them, then it narrows you down as everyone funnels to Bree for quests, then it North Downs and Lonelands and then it opens up again around 35. You can go to misty mountains, trollshaws, angmar, or forochel and level up before everyone goes into moria.The game needs, after lothlorien, to open up again give u the option to explore rohan or mirhwood or another area instead of going on this linear track. Another poster touched on this, and I agree we are all being hearded around, and the game needs to open up and allow us to go where we want. 7. Finally, this game is starting to go through the best build syndrome. Every class was unique and different and you could play it that way within your own class. That has changed since people started to yell about DPS, the game is forcing players to a cookie cutter mold. Take RK's. Most people yelled that they were overpowered, yet you could be a damage specialist in fire, or frost or lightning and it was fun, you could enjoy yourself. After the new book, turbine has drastically increase the power requirements, the result all the RKs are now scrambling to get more power.
Okay, going to attempt to address the criticisms, even though I can partially agree with some.
2. Like any MMO, LotRO is exactly as "grindy" as you make it. Yes, there are a lot of mindless quests, they are there to speed the levelling process and encourage the players who need direction. There are also some very very cool quests with mechanics I rarely see in other games....you don't *have* to do either. Same thing for deeds, you can obsess and power grind...or wander through smelling the roses. It is easy enough to level in LotRO that I have *never* felt the pressure to do everything in each zone as I hit it, but there are lots of challenges along the way. This ties into a later point, grouping isn't only for 60ths! Want a challenge, try actually pulling together groups and raids for the sub-50th content on the way through. Great Barrows, Fornost Erain, Goblin Town, Annuminias and others etc can all be great raiding experiences.
5. I have to disagree completely on crafting. I have several characters (at 60th) who mostly adventure geared out almost totally in top end crafted armor, I have several crafted legendary items; on a regular basis when grouping/raiding I consume player made food, potions, scrolls, chants, shield spikes, oils, traps and the like. The shieldsI just made for my guardian and my wifes minstrel are some of the best in the game and are selling for 5-10gold on the auction house when they are even available.
Now, I do have some complaints with gear and radiance gating especially - but LotRO is one of the most crafter friendly endgames out there - anyone who says otherwise hasn't played to that point or hasn't played the competition.
6. I think the poster here is simply missing something: Perspective. When the game came out, there was ONE path to 50th. Everyone forgets this, there was no Forochel, no Eregion and many other areas were smaller or missing. Turbine has done a great job of expanding the game, for free. Moria is still damn new (and huge)- level 60 is still fairly new....and new content is being added constantly. I have levelled 3 characters to 60th through Moria and none of them took the same path, it really is that big. My 4th is on the way and he is already doing things differently than the previous 3.
7. This one ALWAYS frosts me, in any game: it is PLAYERS who flock to the "best build" syndrome...don't like it, then don't put up with it! I've never tailored any of my characters to a "best build" template in LotRO and never will - why? Because I don't need to. Obviously some abilities are better than others and I focus on what I need to play my classes better, but who cares if some tweeker from Podunk has 2% better dps than me? I sure don't and it's never affected my gameplay. I've *never* had someone inspect my gear and say "you can't raid with us, newb" or criticize my performance in a group.
Every game has optimization, how far you let it drive you is entirely up to you.
P.S. I have to take a huge slam at the EVE fanatics on this one, "no cookie cutter" builds my arse. Any serious PvP pilot in a given ship type will have the same set of weapons skills to 5, tech 2 and supporting skills to 4-5, the same tanking skills to 5, supporting skills to 4-5 the same speed and manuever skills to 4-5 etc. The differences are in ships/specs you are qualified on (driven by skillpoint totals which equals age of character) and in non-combat production, interaction or fluff skills. Take any two good Maelstrom pilots (minny Battleship) for example and their relevent skills will be a 95% match.
I like Wow a lot and I like LotRO a lot. It's sickening this WoW clone nonsense that is all over the forums. There really is only one way to define a wow clone and that would be wow itself. If you want to talk about similarities than by all means go for it. But it's not the same game and it's not a clone. No MMO is a clone of something else. If it was, there would be a lawsuit. It's just really sad and makes the MMO community look very stupid and closed minded. That's all.
The only game that I would say is very similar to WoW is Runes of Magic. I have a friend that play s and I when I watch him play it is very close. Nothing is a clone though. As to LOTRO, I think the game was pretty good during the original game. The expansion they tried to change the classes too much, the game design too much .. same old story from other MMOs and it lost appeal for me. I don't like the game enough to play it now.
Originally posted by arrgy 7. Finally, this game is starting to go through the best build syndrome. Every class was unique and different and you could play it that way within your own class. That has changed since people started to yell about DPS, the game is forcing players to a cookie cutter mold. Take RK's. Most people yelled that they were overpowered, yet you could be a damage specialist in fire, or frost or lightning and it was fun, you could enjoy yourself. After the new book, turbine has drastically increase the power requirements, the result all the RKs are now scrambling to get more power. The originiality and fun are gone. Almost all captains run around with the same trait, the same gear, etc. ...result: each captain is the same they are all healing slotted this ruins the ability of the class to be original. Which is funny because turbine's other game, ddo, is the complete opposite. No two classes are alike and people love to build unique classes. Turbine took a great idea (have three different options within each classes) and killed it. You wont see a sword and board champ or captain and if u do, most people wont group with them. When 99% of a class are slotted, traited the same way, there is no thought.
I love LotRO but I can see myself cancelling if book 9 doesnt make some serious fundamental changes to the game.
Only if you want to be. I've never expected a class I group with to be traited or slotted a certain way and I haven't experienced any issues completing content. Hell, one of the main people I group with is a fellow minstrel and him and I are specced,/traited about as different as you can get. He's geared/traited for dps and damage mitigation/evasion. I'm specced for overall crit maxing/healing/icpr. We have completed almost everything including some content that is supposed to be 3 manned with just the 2 of us (haven't done the new Bk 8 content yet but short of that we've done everything else currently in game in grouped with our builds).
To be honest, his build is probably more versatile than mine because he can't heal near as well as me but his overall survivability is much better so while he might have to rethink things for a few scenarios generally speaking his build works for just about everything. Mine does work for everything across the board but I have to be a lot more careful than him.
We play our classes and spec our classes nothing like each other and they both work quite well for both grouping in general and our own enjoyment of the game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Only if you want to be. I've never expected a class I group with to be traited or slotted a certain way and I haven't experienced any issues completing content. Hell, one of the main people I group with is a fellow minstrel and him and I are specced,/traited about as different as you can get. He's geared/traited for dps and damage mitigation/evasion. I'm specced for overall crit maxing/healing/icpr. We have completed almost everything including some content that is supposed to be 3 manned with just the 2 of us (haven't done the new Bk 8 content yet but short of that we've done everything else currently in game in grouped with our builds). To be honest, his build is probably more versatile than mine because he can't heal near as well as me but his overall survivability is much better so while he might have to rethink things for a few scenarios generally speaking his build works for just about everything. Mine does work for everything across the board but I have to be a lot more careful than him. We play our classes and spec our classes nothing like each other and they both work quite well for both grouping in general and our own enjoyment of the game.
Im not saying that you can't slot differently. If your best buddy or kin want you to slot your minnie for DPS thats great, go for it. What I was stating is that in most situations when you run instances or you solo, your role is very limited. How many captains run a rad run slotted as DPS vs. HoH (heaing?) Minnies are expected of course to heal. Unless you have another guard, he runs in protective mode no OP for him. RKs if going DPS will go fire usually or heal, etc. The versitility among the classes is gone. There are many classes, that don't even use one of the three trait lines given to them, and some only use one exclusively. I can't even remember if I traited anything on my hunter on the trapper line.
As for crafting, I just don't think there is enough of it for the end gamers. Crafters should have the ability to make their own recipes instead of using the cookie cutter ones found in drops from mobs. Players should be able to pick and choose what stats they want modified in a balanced system. The LI system kinda tried to do that with the legacies, which works ok, but it needs to be expanded for all gear. If I want to run around with overmaxed agility and no other stat, that should be my choice, this would allow for much greater freedom and differences with classes. Now people wont complain as much if they dont DPS as well, because the remedy would be to craft more +might gear. Also, crafters, good ones, would be in more demand.
It's not a question of what others want him to do. Its what he wants to do. The point was you don't have to be a cookie cutter build. Yes, if you're the only healer you're going to be expected to heal. That doesn't mean your gear or traits have to be slotted for that. That's a matter of choice. You can still do the required job if that's what they need-it'll just be tougher for you than it would me if I'm geared/specced for it. Yes, if you're a tanking class then chances are if you're in a group and you're the only tank-you're going to be expected to tank. That's no different than how it was before though nor is it different from how other games are.
The only thing in this game that necessitates a required need regardless of what you would prefer far as trait or gear selection is the watcher instance far as I have seen because whehter you like it or not you have to be wearing the rad gear to have a go at him.
I do agree with you about the crafting and stat items though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Only if you want to be. I've never expected a class I group with to be traited or slotted a certain way and I haven't experienced any issues completing content. Hell, one of the main people I group with is a fellow minstrel and him and I are specced,/traited about as different as you can get. He's geared/traited for dps and damage mitigation/evasion. I'm specced for overall crit maxing/healing/icpr. We have completed almost everything including some content that is supposed to be 3 manned with just the 2 of us (haven't done the new Bk 8 content yet but short of that we've done everything else currently in game in grouped with our builds). To be honest, his build is probably more versatile than mine because he can't heal near as well as me but his overall survivability is much better so while he might have to rethink things for a few scenarios generally speaking his build works for just about everything. Mine does work for everything across the board but I have to be a lot more careful than him. We play our classes and spec our classes nothing like each other and they both work quite well for both grouping in general and our own enjoyment of the game.
Im not saying that you can't slot differently. If your best buddy or kin want you to slot your minnie for DPS thats great, go for it. What I was stating is that in most situations when you run instances or you solo, your role is very limited. How many captains run a rad run slotted as DPS vs. HoH (heaing?) Minnies are expected of course to heal. Unless you have another guard, he runs in protective mode no OP for him. RKs if going DPS will go fire usually or heal, etc. The versitility among the classes is gone. There are many classes, that don't even use one of the three trait lines given to them, and some only use one exclusively. I can't even remember if I traited anything on my hunter on the trapper line.
My captain is usually dps traited when doing "rad-runs" but if we dont have a minstrel I go hands of healing. And my RK is lightning traited.
Ive heard no complains with my traiting so far
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
No offense, but on the crafting you are asking for something that is beyond what any game out there offers. The closest that anyone has ever implemented was old (pre-NGE) SWG crafting. Nothing out there today even comes close to what you are asking for. Out of what there is, LotRO is one of the best if not the best.
No offense, but on the crafting you are asking for something that is beyond what any game out there offers. The closest that anyone has ever implemented was old (pre-NGE) SWG crafting. Nothing out there today even comes close to what you are asking for. Out of what there is, LotRO is one of the best if not the best
Actually LotRo does offer what I propose with the settings. If you want more of a stat just pop that legacy into your weapon. So why can that not be expanded? Also, why are we "stuck" at character generation with the pre-made stats for each class and race? Turbine's other game ddo. allows you to customize a 28 or 32 pt stat build which forms the basis of your characters skills at character creation. So, why can't LotRo do that. Allow us to custom put a base number of points into each category. That would help the game a lot.
I think LotRO is the best mmorpg game out there for now, but I can see a huge drop of players on the horizon, and I am just suggesting ways to make it better.
i wish lotro had learnt a bit more from wow . the side story to the lord of the rings design really missed the boat imo . a middle earth onlinegame which was unconstrained by the lord of the rings storyline would have been better . what codemasters have offered us with lotro is something far too limited in its scope . ( same as ddo ) .this company had the two biggest fantasy world franchises in its hands and they managed to mess them both up to some degree . i think that says an awful lot about them and how they do buisnss and view the creative proccess . when i played lotro i found it all but impossible to get groups together which really defeats the purpose . the one think i would say is that it has a great community most people i met were very helpful and friendly . its just there was nt an awful lot of them .
No offense, but on the crafting you are asking for something that is beyond what any game out there offers. The closest that anyone has ever implemented was old (pre-NGE) SWG crafting. Nothing out there today even comes close to what you are asking for. Out of what there is, LotRO is one of the best if not the best
Actually LotRo does offer what I propose with the settings. If you want more of a stat just pop that legacy into your weapon. So why can that not be expanded?
It probably can, and that might be the direction they are going to go with crafting beyond Moria - too soon to say really. But that's not really the same as 'creating new recipes' - you'd basically just have the same sort of recipes as now and choose which ones to make/slot in and you wouldn't be able to customize them beyond that.
There are a lot of things I wish LotRO had done differently - heck starting with the entire premise, I'd much rather have played an open sandbox Middle Earth....but what they have works for what it is, a tour guided themepark. It's far too late to make serious game altering changes, that would simply be a repeat of an NGE-style execution.
First off, I'd like to mention that all I've done is the 14-day trial, so I'm in no way an expert on LOTRO. I may not have played enough to be fully immersed in the game, but I felt like sharing my thoughts nonetheless.
As the title states, I don't think this game should have such a high rating. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it (I've been a Tolkien fan ever since I learned to read, and felt that the game perfectly complemented the books and movies); however, I don't think LOTRO is anything special. I could spend all day listing the similarities it has with WoW, but that would get boring, and most of you probably noticed them anyway. Mostly, though, I just thought LOTRO quickly got boring. The graphics are great; they're what drew me in initially. But for anyone who has ever played WoW, or any of its seemingly infinite clones, everything about this game will seem very redundant. In my 14 days of playing, I found absolutely nothing new or innovative. There was definitely nothing worth another $15 a month. So, does anyone out there agree with me? Feel free to share your thoughts.
And so the Music lives on with the WOW clone...Gets your fact straight..WOW is the Clone of EQ..So Its a EQ Clone and not a WOW..
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Why do people insist on referring to everything as a WoW clone? Because video games have, generally, the same elements?
Would you call football, hockey, soccer, and any other team-oriented sport a baseball clone because they have two opposing teams, use a scoring system, and use some type of object as the focal point of the game? No, you wouldn't.
Would you call China, or any other country that is becoming a first world country, an USA clone? Just because the USA was first world first? No, you wouldn't.
Saying that any game is a WoW clone is being just plain ignorant, because WoW wasn't there before everything else. WoW is simply the flavor of the month (although it's been that way for the past 5 years). Before WoW came Everquest. Let's see what Everquest and WoW have in common (all of which Everquest had first):
Raids
Mounts
Buffs
Equipment with static stat value's
The ability to add enhancements to items
Crafting
Auto attack combat
Auction house? (Though, Everquest does not have one, they have a bazaar, which is the same concept, except the person selling must be online to sell the item)
Guilds
PvP combat
Right click dead corpse to loot
Skill ups from using your weapon in combat
-----
The list goes on and on. The bottom line is, look at everything that was there before WoW. WoW really had nothing new and innovative. It had cartoony graphics, more linear play, and curb appeal for the kids with low attention spans and insufficient intelligence to take on the learning curve.
Now, lets explore this a little more. Where were all of the things found in ANY MMO today originally inspired from? Everquest surely wasn't the first to come up with the idea of making such a game (If you set aside using graphics, and an internet connection to make playing with people world-wide possible).
Dungeons and Dragons. Had every game mechanic that MMO's use (stats, rolls (though, you do not roll a dice in the MMO, but a RNG does so for you), weapons, armor, etc etc)
Does this make every MMO with a fantasy concept a D&D clone? No.
Every idea today borrows idea's off of something else. Movie's, music, clothing style's, tv shows, even games! What in MMO's can really be new without destroying their chances for a player base? What idea can be used in a new MMO, that won't be implemented into another MMO that already exists? If a game has something in it before WoW, but WoW decides to put a similar feature into their game... how many people would say that the game which originally had the idea was just copying off of WoW? Most likely all the ignorant fan boys who have no clue about life and anything in it.
In short; calling any game a WoW clone is just showing that you lack the knowledge of where everything really came from. Start looking at games for what they are, not what else they may seem like.
Why do people insist on referring to everything as a WoW clone? Because video games have, generally, the same elements? Would you call football, hockey, soccer, and any other team-oriented sport a baseball clone because they have two opposing teams, use a scoring system, and use some type of object as the focal point of the game? No, you wouldn't. Would you call China, or any other country that is becoming a first world country, an USA clone? Just because the USA was first world first? No, you wouldn't. Saying that any game is a WoW clone is being just plain ignorant, because WoW wasn't there before everything else. WoW is simply the flavor of the month (although it's been that way for the past 5 years). Before WoW came Everquest. Let's see what Everquest and WoW have in common (all of which Everquest had first): Raids Mounts Buffs Equipment with static stat value's The ability to add enhancements to items Crafting Auto attack combat Auction house? (Though, Everquest does not have one, they have a bazaar, which is the same concept, except the person selling must be online to sell the item) Guilds PvP combat Right click dead corpse to loot Skill ups from using your weapon in combat ----- The list goes on and on. The bottom line is, look at everything that was there before WoW. WoW really had nothing new and innovative. It had cartoony graphics, more linear play, and curb appeal for the kids with low attention spans and insufficient intelligence to take on the learning curve. Now, lets explore this a little more. Where were all of the things found in ANY MMO today originally inspired from? Everquest surely wasn't the first to come up with the idea of making such a game (If you set aside using graphics, and an internet connection to make playing with people world-wide possible). Dungeons and Dragons. Had every game mechanic that MMO's use (stats, rolls (though, you do not roll a dice in the MMO, but a RNG does so for you), weapons, armor, etc etc) Does this make every MMO with a fantasy concept a D&D clone? No. Every idea today borrows idea's off of something else. Movie's, music, clothing style's, tv shows, even games! What in MMO's can really be new without destroying their chances for a player base? What idea can be used in a new MMO, that won't be implemented into another MMO that already exists? If a game has something in it before WoW, but WoW decides to put a similar feature into their game... how many people would say that the game which originally had the idea was just copying off of WoW? Most likely all the ignorant fan boys who have no clue about life and anything in it. In short; calling any game a WoW clone is just showing that you lack the knowledge of where everything really came from. Start looking at games for what they are, not what else they may seem like.
Why waste your first post for something that has been repeated 200 times within this thread but still isnt the full truth?
You almost understood it - but only almost.
WoW did many things new, the main thing being they added game content refreshingly fast and for the casual player (or as you call em: the idiots with short attention spans) Take pvp battlefields for example. It was also not just the cartoony graphics, WoW did in fact take itself so serious. At the time WoW came out the old games felt too serious to many players. It got forgotten that its games - WoW brought that spirit back. It was the first fantasy MMO with shotguns and there was a HUGE discussion on the EQ forums all over why EQ did not have that for gnomes with their tinkering. It was the first game where you could solo almost every class to max level and not needing 3 years for it. EQ always forced to group it is the concept of EQ teamplay. The EQ bazaar was invented after WoW and i saw it as a bitter compromise - it was alot more fun before some idiot invented auction houses for hzthjthjMMO's At the time WoW came out these where massive changes and NEW things compared to the EQ / DAoC settings. If you forgot that and only look at dry game mechnics now, it is you that shows you have no clue.
This in mind, LOTRO is far closer to WoW than it will ever be to EQ - as you almost understood it for yourself, WoW was far more and i quote you: "linear" than EQ. LOTRO is even more linear than WoW - so in fact it is further away from EQ and older titles than WoW.
And just to have it straight, WoW sucked - LOTRO sucks more. Comparing LOTRO with EQ is an insult for EQ in fact, so stick to the OP and compare it to the other rubbish game for people with short attention spans (lol i like that one)
Get your facts straight - EQ had it's bazaar released shortly after the launch of luclin. Luclin was launched in late 2001, 3 months later the bazaar was fully functional.
WoW was launched in 2004? Please tell me.. did EQ travel forward in time to snag this concept only to implement it before WoW could even be announced? Please, humor me some more.
EDIT: I forgot to add.. EQ was EQ because it wasn't linear. It granted you the option to explore and make the game what you wanted it to be, it wasn't always "get x level and have y set of gear" hell, leveling up in the old days... how many stat increasing items did you find in the early game? Barely any. So I take back my statement that WoW is more linear... WoW is just plain linear. The developers give you a strand to follow from one area to the other.
I guess I have a soft spot for EQ, it was my first MMO, and will always remain in my mind as the super giant that set the bar far above any other MMO I've ever played (Note: I also have a soft spot for Lineage 2, great game)
My original post was not to compare apples to oranges, but rather to further explain that there is no way to possibly do so, and that you cannot refer to everything new as something that is the same as the old, albeit how closely similar it may look or feel... in games, there are things that just work, and should be a main element of every MMO, if not a slight variation of it.
Comments
I don't agree that LOTRO is a WoW clone. I've played both for a very long time and they do not share the same deep core elements as each other. LOTRO could be 10 times better than it is, but Turbine is weak compared to Blizzard.
Wow's "formula" was developed from taking concepts from games that came out before it such as Everquest and Asheron's Call and improving upon those ideas and making them more casual player friendly. So they actually do have a point when they gripe about people balking about games being a "WoW clone".
I will agree with you about Eve though. That game is about as different as you can get from other mmos. I don't care for the game, but my hat goes off to them for making a unique game compared to the norm. Outside of that one however they all seem to follow the same formula from what I have seen when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it. Some mmos offer different mechanics, level of "difficulty", soloability variation, but the inherent concepts tend to be the same whether you're talking about Rings, WoW, Final Fantasy, etc.
Frankly, I love the genre so it works for me. At this point those that complain about this just seem to be burned out on these types of games in general and probably just need a break from them for a while. Others want something that could never really exist because it just isn't realistically possible at least at this point in time.
EDIT: Wow, should have read back a bit farther. Gestalt's post explains it far better than I ever could have. Very well said although I think Rings fits the model as well but I'm fine with that. Whether they want to admit it or not most of the other games people try saying don't fit into that model do as well.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Two words: Ultima Online
I agree that LOTRO gameplay is faintly familiar to WoW. But WoW is familiar to several other MMO's that came out before it. It is what happens in a stale industry like the current MMO market. Think of it like movies... X-Men came out and did extremley well, before you knew it we had a flood of movies based off the same principals. Music is the same way.... A new band comes out that everyone loves the sound of, next thing you know there are 20 other bands that have the same style popping up out of no where. Unlike the music industry, it seems the MMO industry is unable to get away from one base. In music you have so many different styles you do have a choice. MMO market is much different (with the exception of EVE as pointed out). They see what has been a huge hit and emulate it hoping to strike it big as well. This leads to terrible stagnation as is evident. Give it a few more years and someone will come out with something that will redefine the industry once again (I had hopes for Richard Garriott... we saw how that ended... FAIL).
I know I ramble, but hopefully you understood the post lol.
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"I like wow, I like aion and I like AoC all for different reasons.....the later cause i get to see boobs, but still its a reason!!" - Sawlstone
Very well put.
Many who did not like lotro could not put their finger on, why exactly. Because at first glance it is a solid game - good graphics, no obvious bugs and nice setting. What you say about LOTRO carreers is right, they are identically following the storylines and sharing most of the rewards. One big reason why i found it unintresting and boring.
The high rating here made me wander back to have another look at the game.
I have to agree with the OP. It's irritatingly lagtastic (I've given up on ever reaching level 20 without dying) , the graphics are so so, etc. etc. It's by no means an awful game, but it doesn't come close to deserving the top rating it has here.
The rune keeper class is a nice addition though. It'll broaden the game's appeal.
Its not a Wow clone remember Wow clone everquest so.
Sic semper tyrannis "Democracy broke down, not when the Union
ceased to be agreeable to all its constituent States, but when it was upheld, like any other Empire, by force of arms."
If done both WoW and LotRO since launch. Dropped WoW for LotRo and then tried all the others and came back to LotRO. Other people have stated it best, the professions are the same, the equipment is the same, the quest and lore are the same, which will ultimately doom LotRO. Some pluses and problems:
1. LotRO is graphically a beautiful game, when you set the settings on ultra high and just look at the scenery its beautiful, not cartoony like WoW.
2. In the beginning at least, you can go through an entire area (like the shire) and do minimual combat. Its not as grinding at the start, when you leave the shire and enter bree then it the grinding begins. The grindfest however never ends. Quests are always kill X mob and/or get X item from a mob. And deed grinding is the worst in the game.
3. What keeps most players playing is the end game. 90% of the game from levels 1-50 are pretty much solo with some exceptions. Heck you can go all 60 levels and NEVER join a group. But once you hit moria and you want the best gear and equipment you have no choice but to group, and this is why people keep playing it. Because they want to see how their class is in a group. Many many people have a ton of alts on the game (I have 4) and the biggest thrill was seeing for the first time how my class was in a group in a tough fight. I think that is what keeps people playing all the different classes. Learning how differently a champ, guard, warden and capt can tank is a big thrill to people in the game. I know when I was in a group with a captain I thought how cool was that, so I rolled up a captain just to see how cool he is end game.
4. The Lore. The lore is great in this game. Its a mixture of what happens to frodo and the company and a lot of backstory that isnt fleshed out in the books or movies. Yet the story is compelling. WoW can make up its own lore and no one would really care.
5. Crafting. I never liked it (I was an explorer) thought it was a waste of time, and still do. It will ultimately either make the game or break it. Right now, the best gear and equipment can not be player made, which is a shame. The crafting system needs to be reworked so that if you cant run a 12 man raid and get lucky to get the best weapon that the next best thing can be made for you. Everyone running around with the same armor and gear makes for boring play. The weapon system tried to vary that but it still is lame. You start with such a wide range of options and then it gets narrowed down to one thing that everyone wants.
6. Which is the theme of the game, and will doom it as well. The game starts very wide open. You can start in one of several areas, and you can level up in any of them, then it narrows you down as everyone funnels to Bree for quests, then it North Downs and Lonelands and then it opens up again around 35. You can go to misty mountains, trollshaws, angmar, or forochel and level up before everyone goes into moria.The game needs, after lothlorien, to open up again give u the option to explore rohan or mirhwood or another area instead of going on this linear track. Another poster touched on this, and I agree we are all being hearded around, and the game needs to open up and allow us to go where we want.
7. Finally, this game is starting to go through the best build syndrome. Every class was unique and different and you could play it that way within your own class. That has changed since people started to yell about DPS, the game is forcing players to a cookie cutter mold. Take RK's. Most people yelled that they were overpowered, yet you could be a damage specialist in fire, or frost or lightning and it was fun, you could enjoy yourself. After the new book, turbine has drastically increase the power requirements, the result all the RKs are now scrambling to get more power. The originiality and fun are gone. Almost all captains run around with the same trait, the same gear, etc. ...result: each captain is the same they are all healing slotted this ruins the ability of the class to be original. Which is funny because turbine's other game, ddo, is the complete opposite. No two classes are alike and people love to build unique classes. Turbine took a great idea (have three different options within each classes) and killed it. You wont see a sword and board champ or captain and if u do, most people wont group with them. When 99% of a class are slotted, traited the same way, there is no thought.
I love LotRO but I can see myself cancelling if book 9 doesnt make some serious fundamental changes to the game.
Every time you throw around "WoW clone", UO and EQ /wrists.
wait the mounted combat (hope so) and we gonna talk about clone stuff XD
LOTRO player
I am quoting your post solely for the purpose of showing all the trolls who have already posted here to show them WHY they are only trolling, and how/why you are not.
Sir, your post is an excellent form of fair criticism. Wish we could see this instead of the frustrated hater-posts already spoiling this thread.
I still love lotro, that does not mean that I don't agree with most of your points. Myself I am a little worried about the game, and are now taking a break from it again, hoping that there will be something new again to draw me back....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Arrgy ... excellent post.
I'm a lifer so can't rly quit
. But defenately agree that with Moria Lotro is not same anymore.
Although I do like Moria. But miss that feeling of exploration when I first entered ME. With Book9 they should bring more then just Mirkwood. New areas, same size as SOA.
Okay, going to attempt to address the criticisms, even though I can partially agree with some.
2. Like any MMO, LotRO is exactly as "grindy" as you make it. Yes, there are a lot of mindless quests, they are there to speed the levelling process and encourage the players who need direction. There are also some very very cool quests with mechanics I rarely see in other games....you don't *have* to do either. Same thing for deeds, you can obsess and power grind...or wander through smelling the roses. It is easy enough to level in LotRO that I have *never* felt the pressure to do everything in each zone as I hit it, but there are lots of challenges along the way. This ties into a later point, grouping isn't only for 60ths! Want a challenge, try actually pulling together groups and raids for the sub-50th content on the way through. Great Barrows, Fornost Erain, Goblin Town, Annuminias and others etc can all be great raiding experiences.
5. I have to disagree completely on crafting. I have several characters (at 60th) who mostly adventure geared out almost totally in top end crafted armor, I have several crafted legendary items; on a regular basis when grouping/raiding I consume player made food, potions, scrolls, chants, shield spikes, oils, traps and the like. The shieldsI just made for my guardian and my wifes minstrel are some of the best in the game and are selling for 5-10gold on the auction house when they are even available.
Now, I do have some complaints with gear and radiance gating especially - but LotRO is one of the most crafter friendly endgames out there - anyone who says otherwise hasn't played to that point or hasn't played the competition.
6. I think the poster here is simply missing something: Perspective. When the game came out, there was ONE path to 50th. Everyone forgets this, there was no Forochel, no Eregion and many other areas were smaller or missing. Turbine has done a great job of expanding the game, for free. Moria is still damn new (and huge)- level 60 is still fairly new....and new content is being added constantly. I have levelled 3 characters to 60th through Moria and none of them took the same path, it really is that big. My 4th is on the way and he is already doing things differently than the previous 3.
7. This one ALWAYS frosts me, in any game: it is PLAYERS who flock to the "best build" syndrome...don't like it, then don't put up with it! I've never tailored any of my characters to a "best build" template in LotRO and never will - why? Because I don't need to. Obviously some abilities are better than others and I focus on what I need to play my classes better, but who cares if some tweeker from Podunk has 2% better dps than me? I sure don't and it's never affected my gameplay. I've *never* had someone inspect my gear and say "you can't raid with us, newb" or criticize my performance in a group.
Every game has optimization, how far you let it drive you is entirely up to you.
P.S. I have to take a huge slam at the EVE fanatics on this one, "no cookie cutter" builds my arse. Any serious PvP pilot in a given ship type will have the same set of weapons skills to 5, tech 2 and supporting skills to 4-5, the same tanking skills to 5, supporting skills to 4-5 the same speed and manuever skills to 4-5 etc. The differences are in ships/specs you are qualified on (driven by skillpoint totals which equals age of character) and in non-combat production, interaction or fluff skills. Take any two good Maelstrom pilots (minny Battleship) for example and their relevent skills will be a 95% match.
The only game that I would say is very similar to WoW is Runes of Magic. I have a friend that play s and I when I watch him play it is very close. Nothing is a clone though. As to LOTRO, I think the game was pretty good during the original game. The expansion they tried to change the classes too much, the game design too much .. same old story from other MMOs and it lost appeal for me. I don't like the game enough to play it now.
Only if you want to be. I've never expected a class I group with to be traited or slotted a certain way and I haven't experienced any issues completing content. Hell, one of the main people I group with is a fellow minstrel and him and I are specced,/traited about as different as you can get. He's geared/traited for dps and damage mitigation/evasion. I'm specced for overall crit maxing/healing/icpr. We have completed almost everything including some content that is supposed to be 3 manned with just the 2 of us (haven't done the new Bk 8 content yet but short of that we've done everything else currently in game in grouped with our builds).
To be honest, his build is probably more versatile than mine because he can't heal near as well as me but his overall survivability is much better so while he might have to rethink things for a few scenarios generally speaking his build works for just about everything. Mine does work for everything across the board but I have to be a lot more careful than him.
We play our classes and spec our classes nothing like each other and they both work quite well for both grouping in general and our own enjoyment of the game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Im not saying that you can't slot differently. If your best buddy or kin want you to slot your minnie for DPS thats great, go for it. What I was stating is that in most situations when you run instances or you solo, your role is very limited. How many captains run a rad run slotted as DPS vs. HoH (heaing?) Minnies are expected of course to heal. Unless you have another guard, he runs in protective mode no OP for him. RKs if going DPS will go fire usually or heal, etc. The versitility among the classes is gone. There are many classes, that don't even use one of the three trait lines given to them, and some only use one exclusively. I can't even remember if I traited anything on my hunter on the trapper line.
As for crafting, I just don't think there is enough of it for the end gamers. Crafters should have the ability to make their own recipes instead of using the cookie cutter ones found in drops from mobs. Players should be able to pick and choose what stats they want modified in a balanced system. The LI system kinda tried to do that with the legacies, which works ok, but it needs to be expanded for all gear. If I want to run around with overmaxed agility and no other stat, that should be my choice, this would allow for much greater freedom and differences with classes. Now people wont complain as much if they dont DPS as well, because the remedy would be to craft more +might gear. Also, crafters, good ones, would be in more demand.
It's not a question of what others want him to do. Its what he wants to do. The point was you don't have to be a cookie cutter build. Yes, if you're the only healer you're going to be expected to heal. That doesn't mean your gear or traits have to be slotted for that. That's a matter of choice. You can still do the required job if that's what they need-it'll just be tougher for you than it would me if I'm geared/specced for it. Yes, if you're a tanking class then chances are if you're in a group and you're the only tank-you're going to be expected to tank. That's no different than how it was before though nor is it different from how other games are.
The only thing in this game that necessitates a required need regardless of what you would prefer far as trait or gear selection is the watcher instance far as I have seen because whehter you like it or not you have to be wearing the rad gear to have a go at him.
I do agree with you about the crafting and stat items though.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Im not saying that you can't slot differently. If your best buddy or kin want you to slot your minnie for DPS thats great, go for it. What I was stating is that in most situations when you run instances or you solo, your role is very limited. How many captains run a rad run slotted as DPS vs. HoH (heaing?) Minnies are expected of course to heal. Unless you have another guard, he runs in protective mode no OP for him. RKs if going DPS will go fire usually or heal, etc. The versitility among the classes is gone. There are many classes, that don't even use one of the three trait lines given to them, and some only use one exclusively. I can't even remember if I traited anything on my hunter on the trapper line.
My captain is usually dps traited when doing "rad-runs" but if we dont have a minstrel I go hands of healing. And my RK is lightning traited.
Ive heard no complains with my traiting so far
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
No offense, but on the crafting you are asking for something that is beyond what any game out there offers. The closest that anyone has ever implemented was old (pre-NGE) SWG crafting. Nothing out there today even comes close to what you are asking for. Out of what there is, LotRO is one of the best if not the best.
Actually LotRo does offer what I propose with the settings. If you want more of a stat just pop that legacy into your weapon. So why can that not be expanded? Also, why are we "stuck" at character generation with the pre-made stats for each class and race? Turbine's other game ddo. allows you to customize a 28 or 32 pt stat build which forms the basis of your characters skills at character creation. So, why can't LotRo do that. Allow us to custom put a base number of points into each category. That would help the game a lot.
I think LotRO is the best mmorpg game out there for now, but I can see a huge drop of players on the horizon, and I am just suggesting ways to make it better.
i wish lotro had learnt a bit more from wow . the side story to the lord of the rings design really missed the boat imo . a middle earth onlinegame which was unconstrained by the lord of the rings storyline would have been better . what codemasters have offered us with lotro is something far too limited in its scope . ( same as ddo ) .this company had the two biggest fantasy world franchises in its hands and they managed to mess them both up to some degree . i think that says an awful lot about them and how they do buisnss and view the creative proccess . when i played lotro i found it all but impossible to get groups together which really defeats the purpose . the one think i would say is that it has a great community most people i met were very helpful and friendly . its just there was nt an awful lot of them .
Actually LotRo does offer what I propose with the settings. If you want more of a stat just pop that legacy into your weapon. So why can that not be expanded?
It probably can, and that might be the direction they are going to go with crafting beyond Moria - too soon to say really. But that's not really the same as 'creating new recipes' - you'd basically just have the same sort of recipes as now and choose which ones to make/slot in and you wouldn't be able to customize them beyond that.
There are a lot of things I wish LotRO had done differently - heck starting with the entire premise, I'd much rather have played an open sandbox Middle Earth....but what they have works for what it is, a tour guided themepark. It's far too late to make serious game altering changes, that would simply be a repeat of an NGE-style execution.
And so the Music lives on with the WOW clone...Gets your fact straight..WOW is the Clone of EQ..So Its a EQ Clone and not a WOW..
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
First time poster, long time reader...
Why do people insist on referring to everything as a WoW clone? Because video games have, generally, the same elements?
Would you call football, hockey, soccer, and any other team-oriented sport a baseball clone because they have two opposing teams, use a scoring system, and use some type of object as the focal point of the game? No, you wouldn't.
Would you call China, or any other country that is becoming a first world country, an USA clone? Just because the USA was first world first? No, you wouldn't.
Saying that any game is a WoW clone is being just plain ignorant, because WoW wasn't there before everything else. WoW is simply the flavor of the month (although it's been that way for the past 5 years). Before WoW came Everquest. Let's see what Everquest and WoW have in common (all of which Everquest had first):
Raids
Mounts
Buffs
Equipment with static stat value's
The ability to add enhancements to items
Crafting
Auto attack combat
Auction house? (Though, Everquest does not have one, they have a bazaar, which is the same concept, except the person selling must be online to sell the item)
Guilds
PvP combat
Right click dead corpse to loot
Skill ups from using your weapon in combat
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The list goes on and on. The bottom line is, look at everything that was there before WoW. WoW really had nothing new and innovative. It had cartoony graphics, more linear play, and curb appeal for the kids with low attention spans and insufficient intelligence to take on the learning curve.
Now, lets explore this a little more. Where were all of the things found in ANY MMO today originally inspired from? Everquest surely wasn't the first to come up with the idea of making such a game (If you set aside using graphics, and an internet connection to make playing with people world-wide possible).
Dungeons and Dragons. Had every game mechanic that MMO's use (stats, rolls (though, you do not roll a dice in the MMO, but a RNG does so for you), weapons, armor, etc etc)
Does this make every MMO with a fantasy concept a D&D clone? No.
Every idea today borrows idea's off of something else. Movie's, music, clothing style's, tv shows, even games! What in MMO's can really be new without destroying their chances for a player base? What idea can be used in a new MMO, that won't be implemented into another MMO that already exists? If a game has something in it before WoW, but WoW decides to put a similar feature into their game... how many people would say that the game which originally had the idea was just copying off of WoW? Most likely all the ignorant fan boys who have no clue about life and anything in it.
In short; calling any game a WoW clone is just showing that you lack the knowledge of where everything really came from. Start looking at games for what they are, not what else they may seem like.
Why waste your first post for something that has been repeated 200 times within this thread but still isnt the full truth?
You almost understood it - but only almost.
WoW did many things new, the main thing being they added game content refreshingly fast and for the casual player (or as you call em: the idiots with short attention spans) Take pvp battlefields for example. It was also not just the cartoony graphics, WoW did in fact take itself so serious. At the time WoW came out the old games felt too serious to many players. It got forgotten that its games - WoW brought that spirit back. It was the first fantasy MMO with shotguns and there was a HUGE discussion on the EQ forums all over why EQ did not have that for gnomes with their tinkering. It was the first game where you could solo almost every class to max level and not needing 3 years for it. EQ always forced to group it is the concept of EQ teamplay. The EQ bazaar was invented after WoW and i saw it as a bitter compromise - it was alot more fun before some idiot invented auction houses for hzthjthjMMO's At the time WoW came out these where massive changes and NEW things compared to the EQ / DAoC settings. If you forgot that and only look at dry game mechnics now, it is you that shows you have no clue.
This in mind, LOTRO is far closer to WoW than it will ever be to EQ - as you almost understood it for yourself, WoW was far more and i quote you: "linear" than EQ. LOTRO is even more linear than WoW - so in fact it is further away from EQ and older titles than WoW.
And just to have it straight, WoW sucked - LOTRO sucks more. Comparing LOTRO with EQ is an insult for EQ in fact, so stick to the OP and compare it to the other rubbish game for people with short attention spans (lol i like that one)
/cheers
Get your facts straight - EQ had it's bazaar released shortly after the launch of luclin. Luclin was launched in late 2001, 3 months later the bazaar was fully functional.
WoW was launched in 2004? Please tell me.. did EQ travel forward in time to snag this concept only to implement it before WoW could even be announced? Please, humor me some more.
EDIT: I forgot to add.. EQ was EQ because it wasn't linear. It granted you the option to explore and make the game what you wanted it to be, it wasn't always "get x level and have y set of gear" hell, leveling up in the old days... how many stat increasing items did you find in the early game? Barely any. So I take back my statement that WoW is more linear... WoW is just plain linear. The developers give you a strand to follow from one area to the other.
I guess I have a soft spot for EQ, it was my first MMO, and will always remain in my mind as the super giant that set the bar far above any other MMO I've ever played (Note: I also have a soft spot for Lineage 2, great game)
My original post was not to compare apples to oranges, but rather to further explain that there is no way to possibly do so, and that you cannot refer to everything new as something that is the same as the old, albeit how closely similar it may look or feel... in games, there are things that just work, and should be a main element of every MMO, if not a slight variation of it.