HMM well lets see war still has better pvp than most mmos so you can't hardly go wrong there , however, the way most people talk in here you would think different. I think that is because its part of simple human nature to be bias and confuse one thing for another. Sure WAr's pvp is not wonderful, but compared to wow's pvp it looks super wonderful. Seeing as i believe they already have set in place pve strategies and goals id say mythic may help by lending workers. Artists, coders and the such, no biggy. That being said id rather see war pvp in it than wow pvp.
REally WAr is a good game (no a great game why pay every mother for just a good game?), its faults lie in two areas: one, its engine and the combat system they piled on it is trash; two, they made it noobz friendly for the wow heads and it failz (see quests no epic anythign etc.)
so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere.....
for crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types.....
HMM well lets see war still has better pvp than most mmos so you can't hardly go wrong there , however, the way most people talk in here you would think different. I think that is because its part of simple human nature to be bias and confuse one thing for another. Sure WAr's pvp is not wonderful, but compared to wow's pvp it looks super wonderful. Seeing as i believe they already have set in place pve strategies and goals id say mythic may help by lending workers. Artists, coders and the such, no biggy. That being said id rather see war pvp in it than wow pvp.
REally WAr is a good game (no a great game why pay every mother for just a good game?), its faults lie in two areas: one, its engine and the combat system they piled on it is trash; two, they made it noobz friendly for the wow heads and it failz (see quests no epic anythign etc.)
so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere.....
for crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types.....
did u 4 realz post this?
lets examine your post.
"so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere....."
They did want this, i don't blame them.
"or crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types....."
Your right their goal was to make money and allow more people.
So Now the question is simple: DID IT WORK. AND THIS IS WERE YOUR POST FAILZ.
They made it too easy, too simple, too boring. It wasn't a challenge a good player could do a lot but not much more than a 1/2 good player. little insentive to get better, after all there was nothing in the game to get better for it was that casual.
And this is why i was not being hostle to mythic, i was stateing they went the wrong way for pvp focused mmo. And the numbers prove it.
So while you can attack me, to defend mythic, for my attempt to defend mythic. The reality of WAR's subs and even ratings prove that i am more right than wrong.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Another funny proof how BioWare got no clue about MMORPG's if the ask Mythic how to create one - after WARhammers failure.
SW:TOR is a major disapppointment so far from a MMORPG perspective, it's sure cool as hell, from STAR WARS addict's perspective.
With the crew on board which successfully sank SWG's ship, I'd say they need a miracle to create a game where the MMO part is worth anything. Sure the RPG part will be the best we ever seen in MMO's.
I am surprised at all the negative posts on this thread. This could be a good thing. Remember Mark Jacobs is gone, could be some good ideas on the Mythic staff might help make Biowares game better.
To the poster who said "you would think BioWare would know better," BioWare may not have a lot of choice in the matter, considering that both fall under the EA umbrella.
That said, my hopes for this game, based on other Mythic properties I have played (personally, I didn't care for DAoC, but that is solely my opinon. I HATED Warhammer Online and still cannot find much good to say about that game after playing for more than 6 months because I believe that if I'm going to say a game is horrible, I ought to take more than 30 days to reach that conclusion ;P ), are now somewhere between "I hope it isn't completely horrible" and "God, please at least let it be better than SWG."
I suppose my question would be: what is EA thinking? BioWare is known for making exceptional games...Mythic, not so much. I can think of several ways EA could get the two companies to work together, but this game would not have been my first choice.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I am generally an optimist, so I try to find the good where I can.
The best thing about this is that Mythic now knows how not to make a game, and I have a feeling that small bit of knowledge could make the new Star Wars title a winner.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
OMFG... I still can't believe it. Doom! Armageddon! WOE UNTO THE DAMNED CITY OF LIECHFIELD!
OMFG....
Sorry. I am speechless. HOW could this happen?
I swear the day the send Paul Barnett to make videos about emo posh Jedi, I am OUTTA HERE.
How could this happen? Do we hand over the Justice Department to the Mafia? Do we hand over Porntube to the Vatican? Do we make Roseanne the boss of the Weight Watchers? NO! Then WHY do they let Mythic even get NEAR SWTOR?
OMFG...
Well... it was a nice dream while it lasted.
*hides in a corner and sobs*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Who has said that TOR is done already? Arent they still working on classes, in the game?
My reaction to Mythic lending a hand to Bioware is like Stevie Wonder helping Superman across the street. But who knows, guys? Let's not sink the ship before her maiden voyage.
I swear the day the send Paul Barnett to make videos about emo posh Jedi, I am OUTTA HERE.
Me too!
But look at it this way, maybe letting the press knows that Mythic can contribute to Bioware, helps out / boosting Mythic image? Sort of like giving people the impression that this company have started to pick up since MJ left and players can look for a better future in War?
This is confusing news....Mythic helping Bioware...hmmm. While we're at it why not let Kim Jong council Obama on how to reinvigorate our declining economy???
Attention EA middle manager types....stay out of Biowares way! Let them create the game and you take notes. If you want to send some MMO experts to help, bring someone from WOW or EVE online....They created Worlds....Warhammer was a soulless experiment in mindless emo-ness.
On a side-note, I have thorougly enjoyed this thread, here are some of my highlights...."Nerd Rage," ....."stevie wonder helping superman across the road"....and "emo sith and jedi totlers"...laughed my $$$ off. Thank you all and well done sirs.
Mythic is likely to have a lot more experience in departments such as server architecture, net code, etc etc - what's all this whining about oO WAR turned out to be a dissapointment for some/many (over-hype anyone?) - doesn't mean Mythic is not an overall competent Game Studio.
Haha...I've been trying to explain this point exactly, but too many people think Mythic took over BioWare is started developing SWTOR from scratch...it's not like BioWare's hand pick devs are not even in charge of making the game because they are now using Mythic for advice
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
I pray Mythic has no say in anything beyond perhaps server coding/architecture. Their game design skills stink (See DAOC and WAR).
Yes, I played both. From the start. WAR was a bit more polished, but in the end, endless PvP grinds? That's not an end game for me... DAOC? It was so horribly flawed at the beginning that I couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months.
I pray Mythic has no say in anything beyond perhaps server coding/architecture. Their game design skills stink (See DAOC and WAR). Yes, I played both. From the start. WAR was a bit more polished, but in the end, endless PvP grinds? That's not an end game for me... DAOC? It was so horribly flawed at the beginning that I couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months.
Mythic's skills at coding server is even worse than their design.
Just see how servers CAN NOT handle a 100 vs 100 battle on a Realm versus Realm game... and how laggy it is, or rahter the server just crashes.
While other MMO's could handle more people fighting that weren't RvR games.
About all the negativity, being negative pays off these days, since only like 20% of the MMO's are successful since the release of WoW. That monster isn't done yet, there probably wont be any other game that will kill it, it will kill itself in time though.
Lets hope its just assistance with some specific MMO related coding stuff. Things where Bioware lacks the experience. As long as Bioware handles content and artistic direction, I dont mind.
Warhammer is currently the 2nd most successful MMO developed in North America next to WoW.
Bioware has never made an MMO. Most of their online experience comes from Neverwinter Nights where the bulk of the content was created by players. Though their RPG's are top notch.
Some other tidbits you may not know:
All of the technology used to build and maintain ToR has been licensed from other companies. The engine, the tools to develop the game, the GM tools. Even the customer service tools. Bioware didn't make any of it. And maybe this is a good thing as they were able to focus on just building the game.
At E3 it was stated that 1/3 of the games voice acted dialoug was complete. There is as much spoken dialoug in 1/3 of ToR as there is in the ENTIRE Sopranos series. That's huge.
Actually WAR sucks because it didn't live up to its own hype via failed promises and actually turning out to be a WoW clone. Many of us were expecting DAoC meets Planetside type of PvP. The Ebb and Flow. The strategy and tactics. The idea that you were progressing the campaign more than your own toon. Did you WAR fanbois ever even make it to a city siege? When totally awesome epic climax involves sitting in the same spot spamming AoE for 6 hours because only enough defenders to fill out 2/10 instances is what you are working for all those months you get the impression that any shared ideas coming out of Mythic are something less than a boon to the Star Wars IP.
That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons of why people left .
The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat. Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.
I saw that coming a mile away.
I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.
Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.
And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.
This is confusing news....Mythic helping Bioware...hmmm. While we're at it why not let Kim Jong council Obama on how to reinvigorate our declining economy??? Attention EA middle manager types....stay out of Biowares way! Let them create the game and you take notes. If you want to send some MMO experts to help, bring someone from WOW or EVE online....They created Worlds....Warhammer was a soulless experiment in mindless emo-ness. On a side-note, I have thorougly enjoyed this thread, here are some of my highlights...."Nerd Rage," ....."stevie wonder helping superman across the road"....and "emo sith and jedi totlers"...laughed my $$$ off. Thank you all and well done sirs.
Not to completely de-rail but I think Obama is doing just fine ruining our economy on his own. Although I hear the used game market spikes in these times. I should break out my WAR acct and try to sell it on Craigslist :P
SW and Trek and Gamer Nerds are pretty hardcore and have inflated egos attached to someone else's accomplishments. Which is why you don't want to get in a forum fight with them but you can take on 5 in real life. I know. I'm a gamer. 5 of us couldn't take on this dude who was fishing.
Actually WAR sucks because it didn't live up to its own hype via failed promises and actually turning out to be a WoW clone. Many of us were expecting DAoC meets Planetside type of PvP. The Ebb and Flow. The strategy and tactics. The idea that you were progressing the campaign more than your own toon. Did you WAR fanbois ever even make it to a city siege? When totally awesome epic climax involves sitting in the same spot spamming AoE for 6 hours because only enough defenders to fill out 2/10 instances is what you are working for all those months you get the impression that any shared ideas coming out of Mythic are something less than a boon to the Star Wars IP.
That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons of why people left .
The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat. Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.
I saw that coming a mile away.
I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.
Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.
And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.
I wish I was paid! that would be great. However, it isn't so. War is everywhere in that you have scenerios, you have orvr, keep battles, fortress battles, city battles. War is indeed in every aspect of the game. At least the gameplay option is there. It is a core mechanic.
Blaming players isn't a worn out tactic. It's fact. Though not entirely the way you think and I think you took what I said alittle bit out of context so I'll try to clarify. In a pvp game your content IS the other players. The people you fight and the people you fight with. That's a fact. You can't have pvp without them. No matter how you look at it you need those players to do the same content you are doing. Because as you know, you can't pvp by yourself.
However the game should be designed in such a way that it encourages people to do that pvp. I always knew from the beginning that as people leveled their mains and alts that eventually the rvr in the lower tiers as well as the PQ's would dry up. That's just common sense. At some point people are done leveling and want to focus on the endgame so you just won't have many people in the lower tiers anymore.
I don't know how they could revitalize rvr in the lower tiers. Maybe you have some ideas to offer? Perhaps a henchman system such as in guildwars? If there aren't going to be a lot of players in those tiers anymore you will need NPC's to help make up the balance.
I never said YOU didn't give it an honest shot. I said most of the people who quit did not. But I would say that's true for most MMO's. Personally I hate learning a new MMO and tend to drop them fast and go back to what I was playing. Though I am good at seeing through the hype and what I want a game to see it as it really is. But most, not all, get hung up on their own personal hype, some personal vision they created a game to be after hearing about it that exists in their own minds. And then they bash it endlessly when it doesn't live up to that mythical personal hype(not saying that's you).
This game is coming along perfectly in my book and doesn't need ANY involvement from others who may pollute it with ideas that my corrupt its current direction.
Its the FIRST time I've not had a single gripe about the path a forthcoming game was taking - every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for and then due to the interference of gamers/publishers/bean counters/marketing it derailed into the same old tired morass that just about every other mmo has become with game play I refuse to waste my time and money on.
Allowing the ideas/ideals of a another developer whose concepts for an mmo deviates entirely from what Bioware has done thus far is a REAL cause for concern and I must say my steadfast resolve for this game is for the first time starting to become shaky.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
I see another Asheron's Call 2 happening here. With AC 2 struggling....Turbine won a contract to develope LOTR. Turbine moved resources toward creating LOTR and totally shutdown AC2. Could this be a sign for the end of WAR in a similar setting?
Not to completely de-rail but I think Obama is doing just fine ruining our economy on his own. Although I hear the used game market spikes in these times. I should break out my WAR acct and try to sell it on Craigslist :P
Really, so the fact that unemployment is skyrocketing is good?
The fact that obama's cabinet members said the stimulus packages were failures, that is good?
The fact that the government now owns more once private companies, that is good?
Here is a little fact for you government jobs DO NOT MAKE MONEY (this is not an argument about good vs bad gov., its a fact outright).
The creation of value is left up to entrepreneurs, china the communistic state understands this.
Obama's system IS IN THE DIRECTION THAT KIM JONG CURRENTLY UTILIZES. Governmental control and spending.
However, there are other states that formally used this almost solely its name is China. Wow how is China doing today?
CHINA IS DOING A BETTER JOB, AT JOB CREATION AND BUSINESS ENTERPRISE THAN THE US.
So if obama would take a few tips from the current state of china on economics i would be a happy man, because the more control individuals (as a people or state in whole [ie all of them]) have the more rich they are and the more rich their nation is and the more rich the lazy ass people who do nothing that leech off them are. This is an economic fact that is well established, despite more recent attempts of hack economist.
That being said i fear that these boards are filled with a lot of illogical ideologues. After all what western p2p mmos are totaly dominating WAR, wow ... I mean as # of subs go wars not that bad off. But no matter what it will never be good because the core of its combat system is whack.
But nothing was done to war to warrant hate of it, other than it wasn't the next wow. Did Mythic go through and massive change the game ruining it for the current players (infact they done a great job of upgrading and improving it), they didn't release a patch (nge nge nge) that made the game a new game, they didn't change the direction trying to balance 2v2 pvp ruining the pve experience over and over and dumbing down all high end pve content so those who don't want a challenge could do everything the people who do like challenges do.
Originally posted by imershon
This game is coming along perfectly in my book and doesn't need ANY involvement from others who may pollute it with ideas that my corrupt its current direction.
Its the FIRST time I've not had a single gripe about the path a forthcoming game was taking - every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for and then due to the interference of gamers/publishers/bean counters/marketing it derailed into the same old tired morass that just about every other mmo has become with game play I refuse to waste my time and money on.
Allowing the ideas/ideals of a another developer whose concepts for an mmo deviates entirely from what Bioware has done thus far is a REAL cause for concern and I must say my steadfast resolve for this game is for the first time starting to become shaky.
What ?
You mean you read like 5 articles about a game in alpha and its your perfect game?
Welcome to 30% of the other mmos already released. Don't believe ask a DF fanboy (there is only like 100 left in the world but hey, ask a former one. It is not hard to find them this forum is filled with them after all they were the shock troopers of mmorpg forums, now they are just a roaming band, unlead, and lost; but still willing to spit hate). Shadowbane, there is another one, lorto, AoC, vandguard, shall i keep type the number of games that sounded wonderful to hundred of thousands of people, when they felt that "every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for".
The reason the games "go bad" from when they are talkign about it towhen it goes gold, is not outside interference, the reason is because its easy to talk a big game but hard to produce one.
TOR is 100% in its big game category (this is not a flame, this is the facts). It maybe setting up to be a wonderful mmo or it may not be. Honestly, TOR has massive issues that people rarely address at this point because we (the fanbase/consumers /etc.) don't know all that tor is PLANED to be. But for point, what about pvp any mmo without a good pvp system will not be a wow killer, they can do well w/o one but not close and w/o a good pvp you lose many players right their. At the heyday of pvp in wow more were playing wow's end game pvp then the end game raids (they have made it so bad this is no longer true). Wows pvp was always bad tho. But in games like doac pvp was end game, and the best end game to date in any mmorpg. That is just one issue that bioware has not largely addressed, i believe they have some ideas but are still uncertain themselves what they will do pvp-wise if at all.
Ill finish saying don't take a used car salesman's word for it, test drive it yourself.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Comments
so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere.....
for crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types.....
so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere.....
for crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types.....
did u 4 realz post this?
lets examine your post.
"so they made it available to new players??? whaaaaaaaaaaat...oh my..how terrible..they would want more than just a hardcore few to play their game..how dare they......that is such an affront to gamers everywhere....."
They did want this, i don't blame them.
"or crying out loud, im so sick of some players denegrating companies and players just because they dont get what they want how they want it when they want it, so a company would want to make a profit and make it more accessible to a wider range of players..big deal..im actually glad some companies make games for more players..not every game is going to be hardcore only pvp small all new player types....."
Your right their goal was to make money and allow more people.
So Now the question is simple: DID IT WORK. AND THIS IS WERE YOUR POST FAILZ.
They made it too easy, too simple, too boring. It wasn't a challenge a good player could do a lot but not much more than a 1/2 good player. little insentive to get better, after all there was nothing in the game to get better for it was that casual.
And this is why i was not being hostle to mythic, i was stateing they went the wrong way for pvp focused mmo. And the numbers prove it.
So while you can attack me, to defend mythic, for my attempt to defend mythic. The reality of WAR's subs and even ratings prove that i am more right than wrong.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Another funny proof how BioWare got no clue about MMORPG's if the ask Mythic how to create one - after WARhammers failure.
SW:TOR is a major disapppointment so far from a MMORPG perspective, it's sure cool as hell, from STAR WARS addict's perspective.
With the crew on board which successfully sank SWG's ship, I'd say they need a miracle to create a game where the MMO part is worth anything. Sure the RPG part will be the best we ever seen in MMO's.
Sera
Darjani SWGE Galaxy
I am surprised at all the negative posts on this thread. This could be a good thing. Remember Mark Jacobs is gone, could be some good ideas on the Mythic staff might help make Biowares game better.
All we can do is wait and see.
To the poster who said "you would think BioWare would know better," BioWare may not have a lot of choice in the matter, considering that both fall under the EA umbrella.
That said, my hopes for this game, based on other Mythic properties I have played (personally, I didn't care for DAoC, but that is solely my opinon. I HATED Warhammer Online and still cannot find much good to say about that game after playing for more than 6 months because I believe that if I'm going to say a game is horrible, I ought to take more than 30 days to reach that conclusion ;P ), are now somewhere between "I hope it isn't completely horrible" and "God, please at least let it be better than SWG."
I suppose my question would be: what is EA thinking? BioWare is known for making exceptional games...Mythic, not so much. I can think of several ways EA could get the two companies to work together, but this game would not have been my first choice.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I am generally an optimist, so I try to find the good where I can.
The best thing about this is that Mythic now knows how not to make a game, and I have a feeling that small bit of knowledge could make the new Star Wars title a winner.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
"Abandon all hope, those who enter here."
Oh my fucking god...
OMFG... I still can't believe it. Doom! Armageddon! WOE UNTO THE DAMNED CITY OF LIECHFIELD!
OMFG....
Sorry. I am speechless. HOW could this happen?
I swear the day the send Paul Barnett to make videos about emo posh Jedi, I am OUTTA HERE.
How could this happen? Do we hand over the Justice Department to the Mafia? Do we hand over Porntube to the Vatican? Do we make Roseanne the boss of the Weight Watchers? NO! Then WHY do they let Mythic even get NEAR SWTOR?
OMFG...
Well... it was a nice dream while it lasted.
*hides in a corner and sobs*
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Who has said that TOR is done already? Arent they still working on classes, in the game?
My reaction to Mythic lending a hand to Bioware is like Stevie Wonder helping Superman across the street. But who knows, guys? Let's not sink the ship before her maiden voyage.
Me too!
But look at it this way, maybe letting the press knows that Mythic can contribute to Bioware, helps out / boosting Mythic image? Sort of like giving people the impression that this company have started to pick up since MJ left and players can look for a better future in War?
just my thoughts...
RIP Orc Choppa
This is confusing news....Mythic helping Bioware...hmmm. While we're at it why not let Kim Jong council Obama on how to reinvigorate our declining economy???
Attention EA middle manager types....stay out of Biowares way! Let them create the game and you take notes. If you want to send some MMO experts to help, bring someone from WOW or EVE online....They created Worlds....Warhammer was a soulless experiment in mindless emo-ness.
On a side-note, I have thorougly enjoyed this thread, here are some of my highlights...."Nerd Rage," ....."stevie wonder helping superman across the road"....and "emo sith and jedi totlers"...laughed my $$$ off. Thank you all and well done sirs.
Mythic is likely to have a lot more experience in departments such as server architecture, net code, etc etc - what's all this whining about oO
WAR turned out to be a dissapointment for some/many (over-hype anyone?) - doesn't mean Mythic is not an overall competent Game Studio.
Haha...I've been trying to explain this point exactly, but too many people think Mythic took over BioWare is started developing SWTOR from scratch...it's not like BioWare's hand pick devs are not even in charge of making the game because they are now using Mythic for advice
I Reject your Reality and Substitute it with My Own!
I pray Mythic has no say in anything beyond perhaps server coding/architecture. Their game design skills stink (See DAOC and WAR).
Yes, I played both. From the start. WAR was a bit more polished, but in the end, endless PvP grinds? That's not an end game for me... DAOC? It was so horribly flawed at the beginning that I couldn't stand it for more than a couple of months.
The only thing I want Mythic doing for Bioware is taking cofee orders and lunch runs.
I assume that WAR is now losing money so as many people as possible are being taken off that are being reassigned to TOR.
Mythic's skills at coding server is even worse than their design.
Just see how servers CAN NOT handle a 100 vs 100 battle on a Realm versus Realm game... and how laggy it is, or rahter the server just crashes.
While other MMO's could handle more people fighting that weren't RvR games.
About all the negativity, being negative pays off these days, since only like 20% of the MMO's are successful since the release of WoW. That monster isn't done yet, there probably wont be any other game that will kill it, it will kill itself in time though.
Sera
Darjani SWGE Galaxy
Lets hope its just assistance with some specific MMO related coding stuff. Things where Bioware lacks the experience. As long as Bioware handles content and artistic direction, I dont mind.
Warhammer is currently the 2nd most successful MMO developed in North America next to WoW.
Bioware has never made an MMO. Most of their online experience comes from Neverwinter Nights where the bulk of the content was created by players. Though their RPG's are top notch.
Some other tidbits you may not know:
All of the technology used to build and maintain ToR has been licensed from other companies. The engine, the tools to develop the game, the GM tools. Even the customer service tools. Bioware didn't make any of it. And maybe this is a good thing as they were able to focus on just building the game.
At E3 it was stated that 1/3 of the games voice acted dialoug was complete. There is as much spoken dialoug in 1/3 of ToR as there is in the ENTIRE Sopranos series. That's huge.
Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/
DAOC was a great MMO....
Sub to me on YouTube @ http://www.youtube.com/user/JJJK29isGaming?feature=mhee
That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons of why people left .
The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat. Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.
I saw that coming a mile away.
I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.
Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.
And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.
Not to completely de-rail but I think Obama is doing just fine ruining our economy on his own. Although I hear the used game market spikes in these times. I should break out my WAR acct and try to sell it on Craigslist :P
SW and Trek and Gamer Nerds are pretty hardcore and have inflated egos attached to someone else's accomplishments. Which is why you don't want to get in a forum fight with them but you can take on 5 in real life. I know. I'm a gamer. 5 of us couldn't take on this dude who was fishing.
consdering I hated Daoc, and Warhammer, this does not bode well, they might have well said they were getting help from SOE.
I sure hope they reconsider.
That is what YOU were expecting. That is your own personal hype. They never said that is what warhammer was going to be. You read what was said and interrupted it the way YOU wanted to. Which is exactly what I talked it about in my reasons of why people left .
The key to these type of games is the players. You can't force players to fill up ever queue for everything you want them to do. You provide the tools and the players carry it out. The problem in MMO's is the players are too dumb to fight with any kind of strategy or tactics. You are not so much relying on the game for the sort of combat you describe, you are relying on the other players to carry out this epic combat. Thing is, they don't want to or are too busy doing other things that matter to them.
I saw that coming a mile away.
I smell a paid employee by Mythic here. You seem to be ignoring the fact that WAR drove a huge advertising / hype campaign with the tag line "War is Everywhere!" which means War is Everywhere on 2/50 servers (IR and DC when I quit), completely lopsided due to pop imbalance and You have to be on the 1 T3 or T4 zones in either server that isn't empty.
Blaming players is a cheap and worn out tactic. You can blame layout, keep design (repetitive hello?), lack of NPC's etc. I mean if you're going to sit here and tell me it's the players fault that they don't want to traverse the same stale terrain without even having to avoid patrols or sit staring over a cliff waiting for a dude to pop by every 15 min. you can just keep your opinions to yourself. Relying on players to make the game fun is the sign of a weak game for all but the most hardcore. The lack of fun didn't come from rolling pugs or getting rolled by premades. That's where player strategy and tactics come in. If you need tactics just to find a fight then the point stands that the developers don't know what the hell they are doing.
And if you don't think I gave it an honest shot there were many times I logged on with only an hour to play and it was either take the que for SP or go hunt in open RvR. I chose oRvR 99% of the time and at least 75% I didn't see anyone whether in WB or solo. So apparently I "made fun" but it didn't happen so it's my fault and everyone else's fault to. That's the most retarded perspective I've ever encountered but its one that really came alive when WAR came out. Why? Because people are so desperate for players to achieve for them what devs should have.
I wish I was paid! that would be great. However, it isn't so. War is everywhere in that you have scenerios, you have orvr, keep battles, fortress battles, city battles. War is indeed in every aspect of the game. At least the gameplay option is there. It is a core mechanic.
Blaming players isn't a worn out tactic. It's fact. Though not entirely the way you think and I think you took what I said alittle bit out of context so I'll try to clarify. In a pvp game your content IS the other players. The people you fight and the people you fight with. That's a fact. You can't have pvp without them. No matter how you look at it you need those players to do the same content you are doing. Because as you know, you can't pvp by yourself.
However the game should be designed in such a way that it encourages people to do that pvp. I always knew from the beginning that as people leveled their mains and alts that eventually the rvr in the lower tiers as well as the PQ's would dry up. That's just common sense. At some point people are done leveling and want to focus on the endgame so you just won't have many people in the lower tiers anymore.
I don't know how they could revitalize rvr in the lower tiers. Maybe you have some ideas to offer? Perhaps a henchman system such as in guildwars? If there aren't going to be a lot of players in those tiers anymore you will need NPC's to help make up the balance.
I never said YOU didn't give it an honest shot. I said most of the people who quit did not. But I would say that's true for most MMO's. Personally I hate learning a new MMO and tend to drop them fast and go back to what I was playing. Though I am good at seeing through the hype and what I want a game to see it as it really is. But most, not all, get hung up on their own personal hype, some personal vision they created a game to be after hearing about it that exists in their own minds. And then they bash it endlessly when it doesn't live up to that mythical personal hype(not saying that's you).
Tribes 2 is back!!!! http://www.tribesnext.com/
And from the makers of tribes: Fallen Empire: Legions http://www.instantaction.com/
This game is coming along perfectly in my book and doesn't need ANY involvement from others who may pollute it with ideas that my corrupt its current direction.
Its the FIRST time I've not had a single gripe about the path a forthcoming game was taking - every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for and then due to the interference of gamers/publishers/bean counters/marketing it derailed into the same old tired morass that just about every other mmo has become with game play I refuse to waste my time and money on.
Allowing the ideas/ideals of a another developer whose concepts for an mmo deviates entirely from what Bioware has done thus far is a REAL cause for concern and I must say my steadfast resolve for this game is for the first time starting to become shaky.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
I see another Asheron's Call 2 happening here. With AC 2 struggling....Turbine won a contract to develope LOTR. Turbine moved resources toward creating LOTR and totally shutdown AC2. Could this be a sign for the end of WAR in a similar setting?
Really, so the fact that unemployment is skyrocketing is good?
The fact that obama's cabinet members said the stimulus packages were failures, that is good?
The fact that the government now owns more once private companies, that is good?
Here is a little fact for you government jobs DO NOT MAKE MONEY (this is not an argument about good vs bad gov., its a fact outright).
The creation of value is left up to entrepreneurs, china the communistic state understands this.
Obama's system IS IN THE DIRECTION THAT KIM JONG CURRENTLY UTILIZES. Governmental control and spending.
However, there are other states that formally used this almost solely its name is China. Wow how is China doing today?
CHINA IS DOING A BETTER JOB, AT JOB CREATION AND BUSINESS ENTERPRISE THAN THE US.
So if obama would take a few tips from the current state of china on economics i would be a happy man, because the more control individuals (as a people or state in whole [ie all of them]) have the more rich they are and the more rich their nation is and the more rich the lazy ass people who do nothing that leech off them are. This is an economic fact that is well established, despite more recent attempts of hack economist.
That being said i fear that these boards are filled with a lot of illogical ideologues. After all what western p2p mmos are totaly dominating WAR, wow ... I mean as # of subs go wars not that bad off. But no matter what it will never be good because the core of its combat system is whack.
But nothing was done to war to warrant hate of it, other than it wasn't the next wow. Did Mythic go through and massive change the game ruining it for the current players (infact they done a great job of upgrading and improving it), they didn't release a patch (nge nge nge) that made the game a new game, they didn't change the direction trying to balance 2v2 pvp ruining the pve experience over and over and dumbing down all high end pve content so those who don't want a challenge could do everything the people who do like challenges do.
What ?
You mean you read like 5 articles about a game in alpha and its your perfect game?
Welcome to 30% of the other mmos already released. Don't believe ask a DF fanboy (there is only like 100 left in the world but hey, ask a former one. It is not hard to find them this forum is filled with them after all they were the shock troopers of mmorpg forums, now they are just a roaming band, unlead, and lost; but still willing to spit hate). Shadowbane, there is another one, lorto, AoC, vandguard, shall i keep type the number of games that sounded wonderful to hundred of thousands of people, when they felt that "every other game started out sounding like THE game I've been waiting for".
The reason the games "go bad" from when they are talkign about it towhen it goes gold, is not outside interference, the reason is because its easy to talk a big game but hard to produce one.
TOR is 100% in its big game category (this is not a flame, this is the facts). It maybe setting up to be a wonderful mmo or it may not be. Honestly, TOR has massive issues that people rarely address at this point because we (the fanbase/consumers /etc.) don't know all that tor is PLANED to be. But for point, what about pvp any mmo without a good pvp system will not be a wow killer, they can do well w/o one but not close and w/o a good pvp you lose many players right their. At the heyday of pvp in wow more were playing wow's end game pvp then the end game raids (they have made it so bad this is no longer true). Wows pvp was always bad tho. But in games like doac pvp was end game, and the best end game to date in any mmorpg. That is just one issue that bioware has not largely addressed, i believe they have some ideas but are still uncertain themselves what they will do pvp-wise if at all.
Ill finish saying don't take a used car salesman's word for it, test drive it yourself.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine