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as good as DF is right now...
...i don't think we've seen close to the best of DF yet. there is really so many more things they can easily and rapidly add to the world now.
the difference here is other games are fundamentally limited by their architecture -- WOW took so long to support world PVP because their server and game architecture was never designed to scale, hence the heavy use of instances (which run on "instance farms", separate from the main world server) and why Lake Wintergrasp has largely been a failure due to bad lag, with only a fraction of the players of your garden-variety DF siege.
on the other hand, part of the reason DF took so long to come out was they clearly invested heavily in making a highly scaleable game world, allowing them the luxury of NO instancing, and large-scale battles. this is also what EVE did -- invest heavily in server and game architecture to make a huge world capable of supporting hug alliance-v-alliance wars. despite both EVE and DF having crappy launches, EVE's initial investment in architecture has clearly paid off - it is the only MMO to still be rapidly growing its sub base 5 years+ after release -- and i think DF will pay off in the same way.
by investing heavily in game and server architecture, the ceiling of what is achievable within the DF game world has barely even been scratched yet -- the latest DF expansion is just the tip of the iceberg. what will come next i predict is more filling in of major content/mechanics holes, like more/better melee skills, a proper out-of-game trade system, maybe local banks, maybe pets, maybe prestige classes, maybe rideable flying dragons... who knows.
from the big picture standpoint its pretty clear that DF has a lot more to give, and it's also clear that Aventurine are really listening to what the community wants -- pretty much every feature in every patch + the expansion can be directly linked back to threads on the official forum.
Comments
Isn't this your second QQ post..?
Bro, you whole post is rather embarrasing to read. You really have to stop with these over-the-top desperate posts. All you little white lies are so easily spotted. Typical gamers now have alot of knowledge and heavily biased posts that try and tie Darkfall to other success stories is not a legitamate way to sell Darkfall to the masses.
Darkfall must stand on it's own as a stand alone product. You decietfully keep trying to piggyback Darkfall's failure and bad start to EVE's succesfull release. One is an utter failure, one is a success story. Any and all can see the difference... yet you keep trying to use this tactics into fooling people that Darkfall is anything other than what it is.
Don't make excusses for Darkfall being a mindless Zerg fest... I thought that is what all you kids wanted. and dumbed down FPS game, focused HEAVILY on sieging. That all you wanted on the beta boards, thats all you wanted in game. And now.... when you realized you were all wrong (as veteran gamers had explained)... you now want to come here and pretend DFO's archetectures is robust and capable, when the exact opposite is true. The reason you don't have guards, but guard towers... is because Aventurine's archetecture and code is pathetic.
You're not even a good spin docter... you don't have the personal skills to fool anyone into buying Darkfall.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I don't know how good DF is as it hasn't been released
[Mod Edit]
No. The reason as to why it took so long is because they had no clue what they were doing and were and still are complete amateurs.
ummmm.....
Darkfall has been released for 5 months.....
ummmm....
Umm the OP is joking right?? took so long to implement a highly scalable world?
I think everyone excpet a handful know of AV's credit woes,this game took forever because they soaked the funds dry then had a hell of a time gaining credit to launch the game.
Anyone that read the initial description of the game knows AV used word for word the exact same description even though 50% of the stated ideas were not even in game.So AV was so lazy i doubt they even read the game description or figured out half the stated options were missing.
This was a venture that Tasos thought was ready to go and all he had to do was find the bank to loan enough cash to launch the servers,i strongly doubt there was ever more than 1% of the game worked on since about 5 years ago.This game was actually to be launched over 2 years ago because Tasos took out the loan to launch the servers,but he lost that money somehow,so the delay was another 2+ years.You can bet with no cash to work with,his game was recieving ZERO updates,it was stagnant for the last 2 years.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Thread cleaned up. Let's try and keep the discussion away from the personal attacks and such, and keep it more on Darkfall.
You do this and I'll love you all. Forever and ever.
you have a talent for fiction, you should write a book.
Thanks javac for having my other posts removed, yet your glorious post remains intact.
"on the other hand, part of the reason DF took so long to come out was they clearly invested heavily in making a highly scaleable game world, allowing them the luxury of NO instancing, and large-scale battles."
The reason DF took so long was that that team was incompetent. Luxury of no instancing and large-scale battles is because character models look crappy and with little/no variations between them. Imagine the comfort of representing the characters with dots! There would be epic battles with millions participating... dots!
"by investing heavily in game and server architecture, the ceiling of what is achievable within the DF game world has barely even been scratched yet"
DFO's website updated after how many months of the original's game release exactly? Muliply the number of months it took them by 1 year and you'll get the approximate time they'll start investing in sensible "game and server architecture". <--- That's a fact cause I say so. Makes any sense? It should for you since your way of thinking is the same as mine.
Bottom line is, everything has potential. My tard has better chances of evolving into something better than DFO though.
you have a talent for fiction, you should write a book.
With the actions AV and Tasos have taken so far your scenario/wishful thinking of DFO succeeding is not far from reality. It's much further. So with these undisputed facts in hand I can clearly say that you should write a book. (I compared DFO to EVE and came to these conclusions).
The question I have is: How can Avi add all these things if they don't get a lot larger playerbase ASAP?
It is true that the game will be a lot better in a year if they can keep the game running with the crew intact but that costs a lot of money and right now they have one of the smallest MMO playerbases there is. Even Vanguard have more players.
Darkfall need a miracle because ther is absolutley no way they can keep the game running with less than 50K subs. The only reason Vanguard is still up is that SOE have EQ 1 & 2 to get in money and they still have a skeleton crew for VG. Avi have no other income 'cept the DF subs.
So that US server must fill up fast.
I don't doubt that DF have some very fun features and that the gameplay can be great at times but I just don't see how they will be able to keep the game running if they don't get players. And I never heard of another MMO that had so few players 6 months after launch, Tabula rasa had a lot more.
The reason they have so few players could be discussed, bad marketting, bad launch, bad experience for new palyers or whatever but it doesn't really matter.
The sad thing is that you need cash to keep a MMO running and updating it. While DF was a lot cheaper compared to Wow and WAR, they will still need a rather large playerbase to continue running the game.
Saying that the game will get better in the future is not the way to get more subs, either they will have to spend cash on marketting, lower the price to buy the game, add a free trial or something else creative. Unless of course opening a US server will ten fold the player numbers in itself but I kinda doubt that.
100% correct.
If Darkfall can expand on its subs then they will have the means to put more into it. I appluad an indie for making any game, they have my backing there. As a player they do not have my backing for the thousand reasons already discussed on these forums,
I feel sorry for AV, not for the criticism they get about their game (that can be looked at and acted on to make the game better - a win for AV) not for the falling amount of players (This also gives AV a reason to get their act together to try and make the game better).
No, I feel sorry for AV and all their staff for having to read posts here (Lets face it guys, MMORPG.com is the only place this game is discussed really) from people like Javac, Dartraiden and that Sean guy.
I develope software and you NEED people pointing out your faults, after staring at a project, in a bubble for days and days you need that guy to look over your shoulder and say "Hmmm, wouldn't it be better if...?" the very very last thing you want is people saying "Hey man that rocks!" all the time, it just helps a car crash happen and is ultimatley very very bad.
So, you three that I highlighted, I know how AV will be feeling, reading your posts, it will be a mix of sorrow and pure, pure shame, I have been in their shoes and what you 'fans' type on here, constant praise for the game even when the mechanics are switched around from what you previously liked, will make even the most prefessional game devs be ashamed of you.
You offer zero input really, well, none of any use, so go you guys I guess, well done for doing more harm, causing the devs more shame than anyone else.
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
Well said.
Nothing more to add here.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
100% correct.
If Darkfall can expand on its subs then they will have the means to put more into it. I appluad an indie for making any game, they have my backing there. As a player they do not have my backing for the thousand reasons already discussed on these forums,
I feel sorry for AV, not for the criticism they get about their game (that can be looked at and acted on to make the game better - a win for AV) not for the falling amount of players (This also gives AV a reason to get their act together to try and make the game better).
No, I feel sorry for AV and all their staff for having to read posts here (Lets face it guys, MMORPG.com is the only place this game is discussed really) from people like Javac, Dartraiden and that Sean guy.
I develope software and you NEED people pointing out your faults, after staring at a project, in a bubble for days and days you need that guy to look over your shoulder and say "Hmmm, wouldn't it be better if...?" the very very last thing you want is people saying "Hey man that rocks!" all the time, it just helps a car crash happen and is ultimatley very very bad.
So, you three that I highlighted, I know how AV will be feeling, reading your posts, it will be a mix of sorrow and pure, pure shame, I have been in their shoes and what you 'fans' type on here, constant praise for the game even when the mechanics are switched around from what you previously liked, will make even the most prefessional game devs be ashamed of you.
You offer zero input really, well, none of any use, so go you guys I guess, well done for doing more harm, causing the devs more shame than anyone else.
Ayep...
I've pointed this out as well before, as have others.
Being a fan of a game *and* being critical of its development and management are not mutually exclusive. The usual suspects around here just can't seem to get that through their brains.
It's been so proven out just by their own actions over the past months - their non-stop spinning, obfuscating and flat out lying about every single thing that AV/Tasos does or doesn't do - that describing the behavior is pretty much superfluous.
For some reason, "being a fan of a game" to them requires:
- having absolutely 0 criticism of the game - unless it's spun into oblivion with a myriad of excuses and cop-outs.
- tolerate absolutely 0 criticism about any aspect of the game - even by people who otherwise enjoy it. Seriously... pay attention to some posts.. a person could say "I think DF is a great game, except I don't like "x".. There are a few here who will immediately flame them, calling them the usual battery of terms.. "carebear", "troll", etc.
- fawning profusely over every single aspect of the game - however buggy or poorly implemented, as though it's the most unique, revolutionary and brilliant thing ever.
- when the issues others point out do inevitably rise to the surface, they must spin, obfuscate, lie and let the ad hominems fly to derail the topic.
- treating Tasos like a diety, regarding everything the guy says (or anyone at AV for that matter) as absolute gospel truth, even when there's a lack of proof, or the proof contradicts what he's saying
- when anything Tasos or AV says - and they've sworn at fact - doesn't come to pass, deny it was ever said or that what they said actually meant something completely different.
The thing is... the main attraction of DF isn't DF to me anymore. It's still interesting to hear what's going on as that train-wreck keeps rolling. But the real entertainment is witnessing the handful of loyal followers Tasos and AV have in these forums fall all over themselves in their efforts to elevate DF to some kind of greatness that it has yet to come anywhere even *close* to beginning to realize. The people behind it simply aren't good enough, and have proven as much. Tasos and co. talk a far better game than they are capable of developing.
I mean.. look at javac's post... as well as a few of the other posts/reviews here recently - since this supposed "expansion" - which can only be categorized as blatant hype and advertising for the game...
I mean could you get any more obvious?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
wow just had some cheesy 90's love song pop into my head....aaaaanyway
It's pretty stupid to say that any game gets worse over time (so long as it has a team working on new content) as the game is always evolving. Sometimes it's a crap addition (NGE) and sometimes its an awesome addition (Mines of Moria), the point is it's still an addition.
In my eyes all Darkfall needs right now is to flesh out the world with more mobs and i think plenty more people would be playing the game.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
wow just had some cheesy 90's love song pop into my head....aaaaanyway
It's pretty stupid to say that any game gets worse over time (so long as it has a team working on new content) as the game is always evolving. Sometimes it's a crap addition (NGE) and sometimes its an awesome addition (Mines of Moria), the point is it's still an addition.
In my eyes all Darkfall needs right now is to flesh out the world with more mobs and i think plenty more people would be playing the game.
No point discussing Javac's pile of BS
It is not stupid to say games CAN go bad. SWG went very unpopular and lost 70% of its sub within months of NGE
DF is unique, with 300k signed up for beta but never filled up 1 server. Seems to be going all downhill there.
So if you look at sub alone, it is very possible to see game go down hill. Not many gain sub after release, WoW did, EvE did. Adding content does not necessarily mean gaining acclaim. Adding = changing and not all changes are popular. Sometimes adding content also hides some nerfing.
As for DF, it is clearly the worst game delivered in history compare to conception. Asian grinders built on a budget of 50k or 100k are just that. What they delivered is just that. DF claims a 12m loan, it should be better than this. In games, as in any product, delivery is all that matter, we pay for a game, we enjoy the game, not hot air about future grandeur of a game. The game can be great 1 million years later, but I am paying for it now? Is this the best DF can offer?
The budget of DF is AAA, the deliver of DF is FFF, that is epic failure. All talks about indies are stupid as they draw down 12m loan and claimed a world class products. All talks about future grand schemes are void as they already used up 12m and cannot go any further. They are broke.
Spin all you may, but fact is, DF failed, in an epic scale.
lol. that's why the game was sold out and essentially unpurchaseable for the first 3 months and until they buffed the server cluster there were server queues.
lol. so downhill they're opening an NA server, and have have released an expansion, new web site, new forums. yep it's CERTAINLY going downhill alright...
more reality distortion... EVE lost so many subs at release it almost closed. this is a well-known fact. EVE didn't start gaining subs until after their first expansion.
[Mod Edit]
EVE Online's servers are considered a super computer. One of the top 100 in the world. DF wont become that because when they hit 10k players online on one server, they will work to open a new server. Thats their goal (they have yet to hit).
AV is trying to start at the bottom and work their way up. They have accomplished that.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
"and have have released an expansion..."
Ummm...that "expansion" was less than 210 mb.
Please fill me in on any game where a download that small rates as an "expansion" . It's a patch, plain and simple.
I agree with you but at least we got some new stuff into Darkfall. It's better then nothing at all and much more will come later anyhow.
mmorpg's flop faster then mcdonalds cheese burgers these days.
sigh... i have written about this before... EVE's cluster isn't even in the top 500 supercomputers, let alone the top 100.
DF's and EVE's clusters are comparable. EVE's cluster has more backend DB power, DF's cluster has more raw CPU power (640xCPUs). EVE can support more players per CPU because EVE's world is fundamentally a whole bunch of instances joined together (by the stargates), EVE has extremely simple PVE AI, and EVE doesn't support FPS-style aiming (sticky targeting doesn't require complex hit calculation, hit chance is just RNG-based).
since when did download size mean anything? more than 90% of a game is textures and sound -- DF is a sandbox game, not a themepark, it doesn't just keep on adding land, it adds new game mechanics.
for the record, the definition of patch/expansion is that a patch brings fixes and changes to EXISTING content (this is why it's called a "patch") an expansion brings NEW content (this is why it's called an "expansion").
since when did download size mean anything? more than 90% of a game is textures and sound -- DF is a sandbox game, not a themepark, it doesn't just keep on adding land, it adds new game mechanics.
for the record, the definition of patch/expansion is that a patch brings fixes and changes to EXISTING content (this is why it's called a "patch") an expansion brings NEW content (this is why it's called an "expansion").
But didn't Tasos and the fans say that the stuff was implemented just turned off? I mean, when I turn off my car, it still exists. Next time I crank it up I'll remind my friends Im expanding it.
since when did download size mean anything? more than 90% of a game is textures and sound -- DF is a sandbox game, not a themepark, it doesn't just keep on adding land, it adds new game mechanics.
for the record, the definition of patch/expansion is that a patch brings fixes and changes to EXISTING content (this is why it's called a "patch") an expansion brings NEW content (this is why it's called an "expansion").
Rofl more than 90% of the game is textures and sound?? Lol Javac i swera u live in ur own little world So u syaing the game has less than 10% actual content, and all it is is a barren world with naked players running about? Man u need to get a grip on what an actual sandobx game is, GTA and spore are actual Sandbox games, having actual content does not make it any less of a sandbox game, hell im going to say wow is more a sandbox game than Darkfall.
Have a nice day my friendd. Dont bother replying back I wont be reading.
i live in the real world, not some clueless gamer world.
in terms of actual disk space consumed, 90%+ of the game is game media -- mainly textures and sound. game engines are typically less than 2MB compiled. the rest is game logic code.
I think they should call it a time warp....
hear me out....
they just expanded into the list of stuff that was feature complete like 2 years ago... thats mind bottling.
so clearly they have at least star trek like powers, they slingshotted around the sun took all the completed stuff forward in time, and just issued it. Why... i dont know....... but clearly this is the truth.
Let the OP stay in his dreamworld, i saw several of these types of fanboys in D&L section aswell, they defended it til the bitter end.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.