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MMORPG with no leve cap?
Pkmn_knight
Member Posts: 60
Well I know I have some conflicting opinions myself on the matter, such as botters, no lifers beating casuals and all that.
But what are your opinions on the subject?
Comments
It depends on how it's implements. SWG Pre-NGE was great because it didn't rely on your "level" to determine what you could and couldn't fight. However, in games where there is a leveling system with no level cap, it's just like you're leveling to an oblivion. You have no purpose to play after a while and it just becomes a glorified chat client. A good example would be Asheron's Call. You just keep on leveling without a purpose after a while. You know you can kill most of the beasts out there, yet you're still killing the same stuff over and over again just to reach that next level.
Let it be known that I hate WoW with a passion and will defend almost any MMORPG against it.
Current: FFXI (PC/360)
Want: FFXIV, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online
Past: AC, AoC, AO, Atlantica Online, CoH/V, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, D&DO, EVE, Everquest I+II, FlyFF, GW (all), Lineage 2, LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maplestory, PSO (DC/Xbox/PC), PSU (PC/360), PlanetSide, RO, Shadowbane, SWG (Pre-NGE), SotNW, TR, UO, Warhammer Online, WoW, WWIIO
I think it would be awesome honestly. I'd be nice to have a game like that and to have awesome high level gear. Reason is it would be pretty cool to have that setting of hrmm....hard for me to explain....I guess unlike WoW (which not hating I play and love) where everyone is 80 and all have the same epic gear....well it doesn't feel that good and is common. Well it would be nice to have if you put that kind of time in to be able to be unique and powerful. I don't know of any mmo like that....havent come across one if their is one >.<
Well k3rnel (add .org for site) will have no level cap for it's vocations so i was asking to see people's opinions on no level cap..
I would say that would 100% be a very weak game.The best system ever created is FFXI's sub class system and we all have seen how it got stuck at 75 because any higher would break the game.If a game could go above and beyond,with unlimited levels it would have to have no system at all,just a bunch of continuous levels.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
In a sense realm rank (for those that have played other than if it's red it's dead FFA pvp) was that extra level(s)...and it really made the playing field unbearable for the majority of players who didn't have the time to hard core the game. For those who had the time, they just fed off of everyone who couldn't. So, while it's deserved that those with time should be rewarded in such a way - it seems difficult at best.
I would say that would 100% be a very weak game.The best system ever created is FFXI's sub class system and we all have seen how it got stuck at 75 because any higher would break the game.If a game could go above and beyond,with unlimited levels it would have to have no system at all,just a bunch of continuous levels.
I agree, and disagree. I think it could be done with a limit skills. Make it possible for someone to kill another who is quite a bit higher level then him. I would say higher levels could get you better gear, with would be your main source of def. and dps. This could still hurt the pve scene, but I think it is doable.
If you look at AC. If you played right you could kill players many levels higher, skills was a good factor in that.
Do you mean levels like in WoW or skill-levels?
EvE Online is capped at level 5 for each skills, but as you can train every skill in the game, there's basically no cap, as you'd need some 15 years to train all skills atm.
If there's no level cap, why have levels?
That is the real question in this thread.
If the levels didn't affect pvp I wouldn't mind, but if it did, it's not a game I would want to play.
If you dont have a level cap there will be so called "Runaway leader" which means if your in the lead you will get to much far ahead from people which makes you soon too powerful for other to even stand a chance. And if that was possible most people would quit since they would see there is no way they are every getting close. And there would hardly be any new players. So in that way level cap is good overall. And think of it " things to do wise" after you leveled passed everything do they have to make new content for just you and 3 others. And where would that money come from.
Like no cap to how high your character or skill level can be?
Personally I don't like leveling for its own sake. Leveling is a means to new abilities and new areas I was previously too weak to go to, and once there are no more areas or abilities I don't care much anymore. Plus how much of a factor are the levels, cause PvE and PvP could suffer from it too.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Easy. If system is based on level to improve stats in anyway, then no level cap only cause problems. However, do note that if a game is not based on level, then cap or not is moot point since level don't exist, then there is no such thing as cap.
NO!! Don't bother starting the "I want a game with no level system" crap. Most people that wants level-less system doesn't even know how to make a game much less a level-less system. However, I do always welcome intelligent and rational thoughts on any subject.
The only mmo I know atm that has a none level system is Entropia Universe, they got skills that you get more levels in when you use the item that is for the skill. Like if you do mining for instance you get all mining skills, and some general skill also move. If you do shooting you get skills in that. There is no cap atm, you get more hp and there is no HP cap either. But in this game everything costs money except "sweat gathering" making account is free and download also. But you can hardly do anything fun unless you put in money.
That still has levels, despite it being skills
There's always a total level in every game, despite having a Class and level system or Skill system.
Skills always have a level to measure it's power as it grows and so there's still a total level if you count up.
But A skill system would still be farer in that sense.
Please post guys, I'm trying to take these opinions to work out flaws.
This is kinda where I was going with my earlier post. Say later in the game it is only gear that allows you to do more dps or increase defence. Say gear is based on the character level, but character level doesn't effect skills. As long as there is not a huge jump in the gear, it should be possible for a player to kill someone higher level with some playing skills.
That still has levels, despite it being skills
There's always a total level in every game, despite having a Class and level system or Skill system.
Skills always have a level to measure it's power as it grows and so there's still a total level if you count up.
But A skill system would still be farer in that sense.
Please post guys, I'm trying to take these opinions to work out flaws.
Well, if you don't have levels at all then you might as well be using a glorified chat client because there's no sense of accomplishment. That is all "leveling up" does is give you a sense of accomplishment, and that's what keeps players coming back for more.
If you REALLY want to just strip away leveling up all together, then look at games like Second Life and Habbo Hotel. No leveling at all. The only thing you have to worry about is your own personal knowledge on how to get things done. I personally don't enjoy those, but that's just me.
Let it be known that I hate WoW with a passion and will defend almost any MMORPG against it.
Current: FFXI (PC/360)
Want: FFXIV, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online
Past: AC, AoC, AO, Atlantica Online, CoH/V, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, D&DO, EVE, Everquest I+II, FlyFF, GW (all), Lineage 2, LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maplestory, PSO (DC/Xbox/PC), PSU (PC/360), PlanetSide, RO, Shadowbane, SWG (Pre-NGE), SotNW, TR, UO, Warhammer Online, WoW, WWIIO
AC1 had as near to no cap as I've ever seen (275) and it took years for anyone to get there even with XP chains.
It was by far the best progression system I've ever seen in an MMORPG. Complete freedom to develop your character however you wanted. A level 50 could kill a level 80 or higher under the right circumstances, so levels didn't mean everything and people knew it. It was great.
That still has levels, despite it being skills
There's always a total level in every game, despite having a Class and level system or Skill system.
Skills always have a level to measure it's power as it grows and so there's still a total level if you count up.
But A skill system would still be farer in that sense.
Please post guys, I'm trying to take these opinions to work out flaws.
If you had played the game for like 3 year or more like I have you should know there is no level cap. So obviously you havent. None is max level even after 8 years and if anyone would reach the so called "cap" they would raise the cap so, youre talking about things you dont know. What people messure in this game is HP the one having most HP got around 330+ something. And no visible cap on skills either.
There is one upcoming game that will do that: Guildwars 2.
For me it depends on what levels let you do. If you get that extra armor points when someone of a lower level attacks you, then no.
I actually are against more hitpoints as you level also (of course I am against any hitpoints at all, they should be in your armor, getting hurt is always bad IRL). Get the same hitpoints but more points you can put into skills and feats.
As for gear I am against gear that you have to have a certain level for. But you could be forced to get a certain skill or feat that might need a lot of points in a tree to get.
Say that you have an armor tree where someone with no points in are a cloth user, and the better armor, the more points you need in the tree. And some classes might only place a certain amount of points in a specific tree, like a thief could only buy up to leather.
Anyways: Yes I think you can have a game with no levelcap but you couldn't take a game like Wow and remove the cap, there must still be same balance so some players wont become gods and kill all other players.
That still has levels, despite it being skills
There's always a total level in every game, despite having a Class and level system or Skill system.
Skills always have a level to measure it's power as it grows and so there's still a total level if you count up.
But A skill system would still be farer in that sense.
Please post guys, I'm trying to take these opinions to work out flaws.
Not really. A level is Skills, hit points, mana, being able to use certain better gear and possibly better attributes.
In a skill based game you will just get better at skills but then you could make a character with many maxed out skills that really cant fight.
Like haveing a thief that are an expert on disarming traps, pick locks, sneak and so on but who suck at combat since he avoids that. That is impossible in a level based game.
Just have a look on pen and paper games, the classic game Runequest invented how you balance a game without levels and it works great. The problem is that the MMO market is still were the pen and paper RPGs was in the 70s: With only D&D.
Some pen and paper games also succesfully mix levels and skillbased gameplay, like the Palladium RPG.
In a skill-based game (as opposed to level-based) you could avoid the need for skill caps with a system of skill decay. It would be impossible to maintain lots of skills at a high level so no character would become all-powerful. Tricky to balance such a game though I imagine.
A perma-death game could also dispense with level caps on the basis that no one is going to live forever anyway.
An even more off the wall suggestion would be to replace level caps with character aging. The ravages of advancing age would offset and eventually overtake the advantages of increasingly high levels. I guess some might see death by old age as a rather drastic alternative to level caps though hehe.
That is the real question in this thread.
levels are a way to classify how much experience a character has earned.
its not needed, but it does help break up the huge amout of work and time needed to hit endgame.
levels for me are not really dealbreakers, but i love to customize and character build, i wouldnt care if there were no levels if the game had plenty of skill points ect.
however it does make talking about my character easy, and grouping more effective.