I see posts like this all the time. Will this game kill Wow? Will that game kill Wow? The fact is the amount of people saying this is a clear indication that the normal mmorpger wants to see Wow fail. They also want to see Blizzard land right on their fat asses.
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
A new MMO is launching in a couple of months, it has a lot of hype, but this time people are actually playing it (arguably the worst part of the game) and it's launching with 10months worth of patches. Can it possibly go any smoother?
.......and who shows up?? The usual guy.
It might never become a WoW killer, and any sensible person doesn't want it to be (for the very obvious reasons) but it's clear he's kinda concerned. Things not looking good in the East, a smooth, polished, and popular game is launching in the West... Not the best of times indeed for our friend.
WoW is not a mmo, its a daycare, if you got rid of all the 12 year olds who just play WoW to not be serious and mess around WoW would have 800k tops
btw this game has like 3 mil in asian regions, so it pretty much is stealing 3 mil from WoW since thats where they would be if they didnt have aion, aion has taken and arm and a leg from WoW and WoW can do nothing about it because its old and tired trash game now
for the record no game has ever killed any other game, the only games that die are the piss poor ones that are killing themselves to begin with
I see posts like this all the time. Will this game kill Wow? Will that game kill Wow? The fact is the amount of people saying this is a clear indication that the normal mmorpger wants to see Wow fail. They also want to see Blizzard land right on their fat asses. Now why would anyone what for a company that has developed such great titles like Starcraft, Warcraft and such to just fail ? After going over it i came to this conclusion. People are just tired of Blizzard and for whatever reasons there are. For them they are just sick of Blizzard. The fact is hardcore mmorpgers like yourself and I will be the only thing that kills Wow. It's clear enough people are just sick of Blizzard and are waiting for an escape to what they think will be a better and greater mmorpg. Will Aion be that mmorpg ? Imho i really don't see it. For some this is a wonderful game. For others this game blows chunks. For me I believe the only mmorpg that will come close to my heart like how old Wow was will be TOR for about the first year after release. How i feel about Wow now is simple. It's failed me as a player. Aion on the other hand feels like a bit of fresh air from my time playing it, however i don't believe this will be the game that keeps me playing it for very much longer. In the end only people like you and me will kick Blizzard off it's throne and that's probably about the only thing that will do it.
Like I said: you better play games - the better ones - instead of "hating Blizzard or Wow".
This answer above is very clear and painful. You are not even playing Aion , you are playing a game to "dethrone Blizzard". Which is a laugh actually.
As you guys aren't going to kill Blizzard nor WOW.
The moment you'll understand this, the moment you'll enjoy playing games again.
You know the one with the 50+ personal flying mounts with griffons and dragons instead of wings growing out of shoulders as a gimmick....
I have been playing Battlefield Heroes and TF2 as of lately. Am i playing them for the same reasons ? Not at all. Like anyone that would love to have a career in video games, I am trying to play every type of game and find something great about it. When it comes to Wow the amount of great things I found about it are killed because, of what has happened over my near 5 years of playing the game. Lets be honest. Wow was a awesome game and still has some very cool things about it yet, things like how specs and classes change all the time and the flood of endless epic loot lists are getting to be too much. Well that's how i feel. The first 2 years of Wow was wonderful to a degree for me. However as it is right now I am not too sure that it's the game for me any longer.
Aion is great for what it is. Personally i just don't think it's the game for me. It's a bit too flamboyant for my taste. Not saying it's not for you. It's just not for me. When I look over the years of mmorpgs that i have played some just stand out. Maybe not because they have the best graphic but, because the content placed in them. Back in EQ and Knight Online you didn't really have instances. It was a battle to camp a Bosses spawn, get the group together and fight off others while trying to kill the boss. Those where the Hardcore games. Aion, Wow have great things going for them. I don't know of any other mmorpg that blows others out of the water for raiding content like Wow. Jeff has done an amazing job when it comes to Pve raiding content but, i feel drops the ball on loot distribution where Turbine got a 2 thumbs up from me with DDO because, they set the loot to that player not the group. Probably the reason why DDO has a friendly community where Wow community is like the Tatooine of all mmorpgs.
Secondly I'm just getting tired of raiding. I do enjoy it and I had a lot of fun downing bosses but, personally the whole system is starting to feel redundant. I don't want to have my character to be part of the story any longer. I would much rather him/her be the story. Aion doesn't have this. TOR on the other hand looks like it's all about it. Blizzard only touched on this with Arthas in Grizzly Hills, Zul'drak and Ice Crown and left me wanting more like a fat kid needed bag Doritos .
Reason to be in a guild and to stay with that guild doesn't hold strong much anymore to me as a player and only using Pve raiding content and small scale Pvp to large scale Pvp seems kind of weak. I believe we as players need more reasons now do to the nature of how mmorpgs evolved. Imho grouping now also needs to evolve.
When it comes right down to it we are all children at a playground. If some of us do not find the swing all that fun it isn't our fault for feeling that way. We didn't have any say how it was designed and it's hard to enjoy the swing when we can only find 1 or 2 things we like about the swing and 10 other things we hate about it.
I strongly believe the same can be said about mmorpgs like when i was a child when looking at aspects about the playground i enjoy and things i do not. Like all children, we grow up and now as an adult I can't find anything interesting about the same playground i use to love when i was a child. The slide isn't that wonderful anymore and it's the same redundant standard structure. This is what i am finding with not only Aion but, other mmorpgs except what Bioware is putting out there with TOR.
I get the feeling that the designer of slides is standing next to me with a cart of different materials for the slide asking me "What would you like to make this slide more to your liking ?". Bioware has tapped into something that all Zelda games have. It talks to the player and not at the player. Well that's my understanding so far when you look at TOR. Aion is following World of Warcraft and placing the same redundant swing and repetitive slide giving the user little to no functional use out of it.
These are just my opinions so far about Aion. Feel free to disagree.
500k, apparently you don' t know anything about hype. At the launch of a new game the quality of Aion. The number will be much higher. However, how long they can sustain it remain to be seen. Since NCsoft doesn't have the millions of Blizzard fans to back them. WoW was a phenomenon not because it is an incredible game, but because it is made by Blizzard and it is derived from the ever popular Warcraft series.
Plus there are no need for Aion to compete with WoW. No one is saying Aion will kill WoW except the WoW fanboi or the WoW hater. Basically, stop it., seriously. No game will kill any other game completely as long as there are a stable player base that generates profit. Only games that gets cancelled and stopped are games that are not generating any profit, or are indeed way too old to genrate enough profit to sustain it's operational cost.
I see posts like this all the time. Will this game kill Wow? Will that game kill Wow? The fact is the amount of people saying this is a clear indication that the normal mmorpger wants to see Wow fail. They also want to see Blizzard land right on their fat asses.
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
You have to also consider another factor. Blizzard is making a new mmorpg. What this means is Wow is not longer producing the results that Blizzard was hoping for and they know Wow is dying on it own. It's also now starting to become a learning tool for younger developers considering the B-Team is in charge. Jeff is working on the new mmorpg and when your lead designers start taking off to make new games those old games start to cool off and goes through a world of hurt with trial and error.
They take players feed back about different aspects that the B-team has made changes too a applies the good feedback in the new mmorpg.
Take the first Doom for example. Do people still play that game ? Sure from time to time you can catch a few pwning it up but, overall the game is in a dead state meaning the numbers of people playing have cooled off. Same will happen with Wow and we players will be it's downfall and no longer play it.
I have noticed mmorpger are leap froggers. They jump from 1 mmorpg to the next depending on the hype. I can find 5 mmorpgs right now that have better interaction then what Wow has in some aspects yet, those games have little to no hype. Aion right now considering it's the closes mmorpg to be release will be the FOTM for most mmorpger when it's release. Like every mmorpg before it and after Wow the numbers will die off considering there isn't anything really different when you compare it to Wow.
A mmorpg that will break this cycle will be one that has aspects about it no mmorpg has and a lot of it.
Aion isnt a WoW killer, infact no MMO will ever kill WoW. The only thing that is going to really be serious competition for WoW is Time.
Having said that though, personally i think AIon a lot more fun then WoW. It just has a very different feel to it and thats something that is missing in many MMOs today.
I dont care what other people are playing. If i find something more fun and enjoyable then i will play that. For me that is Aion.
Originally posted by Cypryss Originally posted by green13 Originally posted by Cypryss I see posts like this all the time. Will this game kill Wow? Will that game kill Wow? The fact is the amount of people saying this is a clear indication that the normal mmorpger wants to see Wow fail. They also want to see Blizzard land right on their fat asses.
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority. WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch. You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
Wrong.
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition: World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
I bolded the important parts for you so you wouldn't get lost.
I see posts like this all the time. Will this game kill Wow? Will that game kill Wow? The fact is the amount of people saying this is a clear indication that the normal mmorpger wants to see Wow fail. They also want to see Blizzard land right on their fat asses.
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
Wrong.
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition:
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
I bolded the important parts for you so you wouldn't get lost.
According to ign. Fair enough but, i still say it's embellish considering i know people with more then 1 account. I am talking about head counts here not how much someone has paid into the mmorpg. If 1 person buys three accounts divide that by 11 million. It's still impressive in sells don't get me wrong. However I'm not that impressed when you consider who might be buying those accounts. As we all know you have to take into account other variables like aka gold farmers and such.
Since some people care so much about subscription numbers, you must be pretty sad, with Chinese servers offline that number gets halved or even smaller as they haven't released the new numbers yet, why would they?
Does that indicate the upcoming death of WoW (even if it is by the hands of Blizzard's new MMO that probably won't be coming out within the next 3 years)? I don't care and you also shouldn't.
Originally posted by EricDanie Good wording, it HAD 11.5m subscribers. Since some people care so much about subscription numbers, you must be pretty sad, with Chinese servers offline that number gets halved or even smaller as they haven't released the new numbers yet, why would they? Does that indicate the upcoming death of WoW (even if it is by the hands of Blizzard's new MMO that probably won't be coming out within the next 3 years)? I don't care and you also shouldn't.
I must be pretty sad? Did I own a piece of Blizzard and not know about it? HOLY SHIT. I OWN A PIECE OF BLIZZARD AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT!!!! OMG WHAT'S THAT!!! WE JUST LOST 6MILLION SUBSCRIBERS. ZOMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!.
Oh wait. What's that now? The Chinese only account for a very small fraction of WoW's income because they pay considerably less for game-time coupled with the fact that The9 as the licensee receives the lion's share of the profits? So you mean to tell me that WoW is still making more money than God, the Devil, or AION could imagine? Well shizzle my nizzle it seems my BILLIONS are safe.
Carry on then Eric, I'm sure there's countless other threads out there that could use your sparkling intellect to help shiny up the place. God knows, if it wasn't for you, I'd never have been made aware that I'm a majority owner in Blizzard stocks. I'd buy you something real nice but well you know how it is...I can' be seen mingling with the poor. What would Doris at the Country Club have to say to about that. Nothing pleasant I tell you, nothing pleasant.
There aren't 500K's worth of PvP oriented, hardcore, grind tolerant players in the U.S.A.
WoW is the grindiest mmo I've ever played.
Six weeks of raid-grinding the same instance at end-game just about made me want to stick a fork in my eye. And that doesn't even take into account the many reputation grinds...
Aion looks to be cut from the same cloth, but at least mixes it up potentially more interesting PvP.
And FYI - there is life beyond the USA :P
and yet less than 20% of WoW gamers raid, but there is plenty of other stuff to do besides PvP, which is another niche play style in itself, unlike Aion after level 25.
Considering the 500K reference was about US subscriptions stated by other posters, I'm not sure what your point is. Seperate markets, seperate points.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Since some people care so much about subscription numbers, you must be pretty sad, with Chinese servers offline that number gets halved or even smaller as they haven't released the new numbers yet, why would they?
Does that indicate the upcoming death of WoW (even if it is by the hands of Blizzard's new MMO that probably won't be coming out within the next 3 years)? I don't care and you also shouldn't.
I must be pretty sad? Did I own a piece of Blizzard and not know about it? HOLY SHIT. I OWN A PIECE OF BLIZZARD AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT!!!! OMG WHAT'S THAT!!! WE JUST LOST 6MILLION SUBSCRIBERS. ZOMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!.
Oh wait. What's that now? The Chinese only account for a very small fraction of WoW's income because they pay considerably less for game-time coupled with the fact that The9 as the licensee receives the lion's share of the profits? So you mean to tell me that WoW is still making more money than God, the Devil, or AION could imagine? Well shizzle my nizzle it seems my BILLIONS are safe.
Carry on then Eric, I'm sure there's countless other threads out there that could use your sparkling intellect to help shiny up the place. God knows, if it wasn't for you, I'd never have been made aware that I'm a majority owner in Blizzard stocks. I'd buy you something real nice but well you know how it is...I can' be seen mingling with the poor. What would Doris at the Country Club have to say to about that. Nothing pleasant I tell you, nothing pleasant.
Blizzard hasn't lost anything in terms of sells. If anything they have made back the money 10 fold. By not listening to the masses, by making everything a angry experience for some. Blizzard has sealed there fate.
If you pissed me off with stuff in Wow what makes you think I or any of my friends are going to touch your new mmorpg let alone your new rpg and rts ? For ever one person Blizzard pissed off say goodbye to 4 of his friends. It's simple marketing and only Blizzard is to blame. With that aside i truly hope Aion does listen to their player base because people like you and I that wake up every day, turn on the computer and login for the next 18 hours drive the market. Casual players are good for a quick buck but, do not invest the amount of time or money like us crazies do.
In order for a game to finally achieve "WoW killer" status, it will have to be simplistic enough to lure away the braindead masses, thus being of no real interest to players such as myself, who don't want it all on a silver platter.
Indeed, I am thankful that Aion will not be a WoW killer.
There aren't 500K's worth of PvP oriented, hardcore, grind tolerant players in the U.S.A.
WoW is the grindiest mmo I've ever played.
Six weeks of raid-grinding the same instance at end-game just about made me want to stick a fork in my eye. And that doesn't even take into account the many reputation grinds...
Aion looks to be cut from the same cloth, but at least mixes it up potentially more interesting PvP.
And FYI - there is life beyond the USA :P
and yet less than 20% of WoW gamers raid, but there is plenty of other stuff to do besides PvP, which is another niche play style in itself, unlike Aion after level 25.
Considering the 500K reference was about US subscriptions stated by other posters, I'm not sure what your point is. Seperate markets, seperate points.
I know that WOW has many varieties of end-game grinds (see my original post above). And that kind of variety is smart design-wise, because it improves the likelihood that there'll be some kind of grind that people like.
But it's still grind.
You really think that less than 20% of WOW gamers raid? I haven't played for a few years, but everyone who could raided when I used to play. No crafted or pvp gear came anywhere near being as good as raid gear. And from what friends who kept playing after I left have told me, they made a lot changes to raids to make it easier for people, so I'd have thought more would be doing it.
The 500k in US is from the OP - fair enough. That's not on the same page as your post and not clear in it.
In order for a game to finally achieve "WoW killer" status, it will have to be simplistic enough to lure away the braindead masses, thus being of no real interest to players such as myself, who don't want it all on a silver platter. Indeed, I am thankful that Aion will not be a WoW killer.
Define silver platter. Do you mean being a GL that just take what he wants regardless or someone that spends hours killing the same mobs for rep to get an item of his choice ? Imho it has and always should be about time vs reward.
I spend a week grinding w.e (quests, storyline, rep ect) i should get a cutting edge progression item. I'll be damned if i ever find myself sucking a tit of a person i have nerver meet for a vitural item that will increase my classes performance for a short amount of time like many of you do. I maybe sad that i keep vent recordings around just to make me feel better knowing that there is way more pathetic people in this world then i am for a good laugh but w.e. Keep sucking the tit i guess. I'll just bitch and cry to the devs about how shitty the game is that forces me to preform such a pathetic act of self sacrifice to progress the class i am playing.
What can I say, the only way you will discover how far off you are regarding (good) guilds is by running one yourself. Then you'll realise that in most (good) guilds, the guild leader and officers are usually the ones putting most of the work and reaping the least of the benefits to make the whole thing happen. Some also pay from their own pockets from benefits outside the game, like ventrilo/TS servers, web space etc.
Would you want somebody with your attitude in your guild? That's an interesting question you need to answer for yourself.
Ugh, another WoW Killer thread? What a surprise....
Everyone needs to stop complaining about WoW being a giant skyscraper of cards just waiting to be blown over. It's getting old. No matter what the game, the chances of it completly dying out are slim. Aion will not be a WoW killer. The only game that can kill WoW is inevitably itself. In a few years, it will be outdated like any other game. It may keep a dedicated few who still enjoy the game, but another game will simply take it's crown. It's the circle of life in the MMO world. But who knows? Aion may just pull a sly one and maintain over 4 million subs and then steal another 4 off of WoW. If you like Aion, fine. If you like WoW, that's dandy. If you like both, than big props to you for standing out in both crowds!
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Tera, Kingdoms of Amular, Firefall
Kudos on your (lack of) social skills ...? What can I say, the only way you will discover how far off you are regarding (good) guilds is by running one yourself. Then you'll realise that in most (good) guilds, the guild leader and officers are usually the ones putting most of the work and reaping the least of the benefits to make the whole thing happen. Some also pay from their own pockets from benefits outside the game, like ventrilo/TS servers, web space etc. Would you want somebody with your attitude in your guild? That's an interesting question you need to answer for yourself.
I have ran guilds (pvp ones) and I have also been a officer in others (pve ones). I think I do understand. I get a pretty clear picture why so many enjoy being a part of a collective group of gamers. I also respect this to a degree because, i also find myself partaking in such groups. I just feel that it's being over emphasized way too much and is being used as a form of abuse "You don't like this guy, expect to not get anywhere:". Imho one player should never hold any power over another player in any mmorpg unless it's compared against skill on the battlefield.
Personally why should i care who does what and when or gets whatever they are after and why should you ? Really there Is real reason too. Logically that is.
In the end though i have to agree with you. It comes down to the people you are grouped with. I just do not agree that the game should empowers those people over the masses of the whole mmorpg's community. What i believe is a misunderstanding problem is that any mmorpg should have that element that the paper and pen D&D environment had. It's sort of flawed when you introduce it to the Internets. For example,
Back when D&D was the in thing to do. People that enjoyed grouping wih random people would only do so once in a blue moon. Going to events and places to meet new people and that's great but, it didn't happen all the time and that's what made it special.
In games like Aion and Wow they take that small wonderful random encounter and milk it to a degree where it become almost making a normal person wanting to drill their temple out with a corkscrew to relieve themselves from that squeaky vocal person on the other side of ventrilo or spamming the crap out of your chatbox with colored text.
Now don't get my wrong, i do group and i enjoy it most of the time but, it's not a matter about social interaction. It's the matter of controlling that social interaction that matters to me as a player. Everything in a Mmorpg is individuale base. Armor, Weapons, enchantments ects are all directed toward 1 person and not a group effort or benifit. True that person might help you out the next time you go into an encounter and then his progression becomes yours if you get something out of it but, overall and at it's root it's a very much individuale based progression game. Why the need for this much group game play is beyond me.
Personally Mmorpg just means that. A place i can go where a mass amount of people are playing the same game. Co-op on the otherhand i view to be better directed towards fps like TF2 and Battlefield for obvious reasons. I just don't see Co-op being a large part of any mmorpg other then a means to an end and not a place i would enjoy a social grathing of fellow players interaction.
Athene said it best imho
"I play the game to pwn noobs." I don't see Aion being any different.
People are going to check out other games besides WoW, people are waiting for AION, people are waiting for the upcoming Star Wars MMO, people are waiting for this, people are waiting for that... GOOD!!! I'm glad to see that the PC game market has become so active and competitive!
Not too long ago the PC gaming market was being hailed as on it's way out and dying. Along comes an easily accessible game like WoW and breathes a new breath of life into a fading and tired industry, and presto, we're all back to clamoring over the huge selection of games before us once again, with some people making ridiculous claim that "this one will be the WoW killer!" /eyeroll
We should all be happy that something has raised the bar within the industry so high that every other game developer is scrambling to beat it with something better. Blizzard, as well as a few other important and clever developers (i.e. CCP "EVE Online"), have really raised the bar for the entire industry, and the rewards are ours to reap as we begin to see a vast selection of other MMOs hit the market that have something to offer for so many varied and individual tastes.
Personally, I'm enjoying my time in the AION beta very much, and I will be playing it when it goes live, but I bear Blizzard no ill will. Their creative development team and incredible advancements in designing very intuitive and easy-to-use User Interfaces have made me appreciate what WoW brought to the market, and it has set a standard for other MMOs that will follow it. It's also one of the few MMOs to tackle so many different environments for exploration, from swimming mechanics to flying mechanics and everything else in between.
I can only hope that AION will take notes and meet or surpass many of the expectations that people will have, in order for it to succeed and survive post-WoW.
People are going to check out other games besides WoW, people are waiting for AION, people are waiting for the upcoming Star Wars MMO, people are waiting for this, people are waiting for that... GOOD!!! I'm glad to see that the PC game market has become so active and competitive! Not too long ago the PC gaming market was being hailed as on it's way out and dying. Along comes an easily accessible game like WoW and breathes a new breath of life into a fading and tired industry, and presto, we're all back to clamoring over the huge selection of games before us once again, with some people making ridiculous claim that "this one will be the WoW killer!" /eyeroll We should all be happy that something has raised the bar within the industry so high that every other game developer is scrambling to beat it with something better. Blizzard, as well as a few other important and clever developers (i.e. CCP "EVE Online"), have really raised the bar for the entire industry, and the rewards are ours to reap as we begin to see a vast selection of other MMOs hit the market that have something to offer for so many varied and individual tastes. Personally, I'm enjoying my time in the AION beta very much, and I will be playing it when it goes live, but I bear Blizzard no ill will. Their creative development team and incredible advancements in designing very intuitive and easy-to-use User Interfaces have made me appreciate what WoW brought to the market, and it has set a standard for other MMOs that will follow it. It's also one of the few MMOs to tackle so many different environments for exploration, from swimming mechanics to flying mechanics and everything else in between. I can only hope that AION will take notes and meet or surpass many of the expectations that people will have, in order for it to succeed and survive post-WoW.
Yes we all can thank Blizzard for those key points but, I hope when other Devs look at Wow they don't consider everything in that game to be the standard to making a mmorpg or we will be right back where we started before wow was released when it comes to mmorpgs.
I don't think that a WoW killer is a smart thing to desire, if you want choices in the available MMOs released and developed. Therefore, Aion not being an WoW killer is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather we have 5-10 MMOs that all together share the WoW market force than one MMO that will recreate the WoW phenomenon.
Regarding the previous poster. For me, MMOs are about collaboration and cooperation. Athene's philosophy is an abomination in my eyes that doesn't fit anywhere, PvE or PvP. It will take great guilds, aka great collaborators, to maintain the hold of castles in Aion and will take great cooperators to beat the PvE encounters of the game. And of course, this is not strictly Aion related, as for me, it is a philosophy that enchances gameplay in all MMOs I've played. It may also come as surprise to some, but I've met people in MMOs, that have became very dear friends in RL, long after I quit playing those games. So the relationships developed in these social games are not like a TV switch, which you switch off and they disappear once you stop gaming.
Have played in the betas so far, and it's a fun game, but is no WoW killer. I would put this game at 500k tops in the US 6 months after it's release. Before you all start with the WoW = lowest common denominator flaming understand there needs to be some balance between pain in the arse, and easy as hell. And while this game isn't over the top difficult, the questing is a pain along with a few other items that will cause it to lose about half of it's player base withing the first half year. Not to worry though, there will be enough players to keep the game rolling myself included.
All mmo have trouble with balance in the beginning, if you played enough of them you should know that. Even WoW had that and is still having that id might add, but that is the way they want it, othervise they wouldnt make one class best then next month or patchday another class best. These are facts.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.
Personally, I don't care what kills WoW. My PC couldnt handle EQ2 way back when, so I went to wow and loved it.(for a while)I'm a long time EQ / DAoC gamer and I am LOVING Aion. It will be a breath of fresh air for all the people who are just sick of playing wow. I for one am one of them, along with a lot of people I know personally, and a lot of people here. The people who tried WAR / AoC will move to wow. Every old school DAoC player will be in Aion. Oh, and for the most part, most of these people who first mentioned the words "wow killer" are wow players themselves. People sick of wow just don't care what happens to it.
I don't think that a WoW killer is a smart thing to desire, if you want choices in the available MMOs released and developed. Therefore, Aion not being an WoW killer is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather we have 5-10 MMOs that all together share the WoW market force than one MMO that will recreate the WoW phenomenon. Regarding the previous poster. For me, MMOs are about collaboration and cooperation. Athene's philosophy is an abomination in my eyes that doesn't fit anywhere, PvE or PvP. It will take great guilds, aka great collaborators, to maintain the hold of castles in Aion and will take great cooperators to beat the PvE encounters of the game. And of course, this is not strictly Aion related, as for me, it is a philosophy that enchances gameplay in all MMOs I've played. It may also come as surprise to some, but I've met people in MMOs, that have became very dear friends in RL, long after I quit playing those games. So the relationships developed in these social games are not like a TV switch, which you switch off and they disappear once you stop gaming.
How can you compare tactical strategies in numbers to be on the same level as someones individual's progression ? Last i checked in Aion if you equipped a weapon i do not receive the benefits from that item. How does group ramification matter ? It's all about who has what and how good they are with it. In the end it's about beating the guy in front of you to a blood pulp and hold your own.
You are only as strong as your weakest link in group pvp. Are you the weakest link ? As for the Athene part I think you misunderstood what he meant. The final goal or whatever for him was playing his best for the content he enjoyed the most. What kept him playing was the ability to keep progressing in his favorit content given how hard the class he was playing was to play. I can till you this right now. No one plays a game for other people. Being a gamer a mmorpger in this case. You keep doing it for selfish reasons whatever they might be. I merely pointed out that i can relate to Athene when it comes to playing mmorpgs because that's my selfish reason for playing them too.
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That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
Ohh it's THAT time again!
A new MMO is launching in a couple of months, it has a lot of hype, but this time people are actually playing it (arguably the worst part of the game) and it's launching with 10months worth of patches. Can it possibly go any smoother?
.......and who shows up?? The usual guy.
It might never become a WoW killer, and any sensible person doesn't want it to be (for the very obvious reasons) but it's clear he's kinda concerned. Things not looking good in the East, a smooth, polished, and popular game is launching in the West... Not the best of times indeed for our friend.
Welcome back, we missed you!
WoW is not a mmo, its a daycare, if you got rid of all the 12 year olds who just play WoW to not be serious and mess around WoW would have 800k tops
btw this game has like 3 mil in asian regions, so it pretty much is stealing 3 mil from WoW since thats where they would be if they didnt have aion, aion has taken and arm and a leg from WoW and WoW can do nothing about it because its old and tired trash game now
for the record no game has ever killed any other game, the only games that die are the piss poor ones that are killing themselves to begin with
Like I said: you better play games - the better ones - instead of "hating Blizzard or Wow".
This answer above is very clear and painful. You are not even playing Aion , you are playing a game to "dethrone Blizzard". Which is a laugh actually.
As you guys aren't going to kill Blizzard nor WOW.
The moment you'll understand this, the moment you'll enjoy playing games again.
You know the one with the 50+ personal flying mounts with griffons and dragons instead of wings growing out of shoulders as a gimmick....
I have been playing Battlefield Heroes and TF2 as of lately. Am i playing them for the same reasons ? Not at all. Like anyone that would love to have a career in video games, I am trying to play every type of game and find something great about it. When it comes to Wow the amount of great things I found about it are killed because, of what has happened over my near 5 years of playing the game. Lets be honest. Wow was a awesome game and still has some very cool things about it yet, things like how specs and classes change all the time and the flood of endless epic loot lists are getting to be too much. Well that's how i feel. The first 2 years of Wow was wonderful to a degree for me. However as it is right now I am not too sure that it's the game for me any longer.
Aion is great for what it is. Personally i just don't think it's the game for me. It's a bit too flamboyant for my taste. Not saying it's not for you. It's just not for me. When I look over the years of mmorpgs that i have played some just stand out. Maybe not because they have the best graphic but, because the content placed in them. Back in EQ and Knight Online you didn't really have instances. It was a battle to camp a Bosses spawn, get the group together and fight off others while trying to kill the boss. Those where the Hardcore games. Aion, Wow have great things going for them. I don't know of any other mmorpg that blows others out of the water for raiding content like Wow. Jeff has done an amazing job when it comes to Pve raiding content but, i feel drops the ball on loot distribution where Turbine got a 2 thumbs up from me with DDO because, they set the loot to that player not the group. Probably the reason why DDO has a friendly community where Wow community is like the Tatooine of all mmorpgs.
Secondly I'm just getting tired of raiding. I do enjoy it and I had a lot of fun downing bosses but, personally the whole system is starting to feel redundant. I don't want to have my character to be part of the story any longer. I would much rather him/her be the story. Aion doesn't have this. TOR on the other hand looks like it's all about it. Blizzard only touched on this with Arthas in Grizzly Hills, Zul'drak and Ice Crown and left me wanting more like a fat kid needed bag Doritos .
Reason to be in a guild and to stay with that guild doesn't hold strong much anymore to me as a player and only using Pve raiding content and small scale Pvp to large scale Pvp seems kind of weak. I believe we as players need more reasons now do to the nature of how mmorpgs evolved. Imho grouping now also needs to evolve.
When it comes right down to it we are all children at a playground. If some of us do not find the swing all that fun it isn't our fault for feeling that way. We didn't have any say how it was designed and it's hard to enjoy the swing when we can only find 1 or 2 things we like about the swing and 10 other things we hate about it.
I strongly believe the same can be said about mmorpgs like when i was a child when looking at aspects about the playground i enjoy and things i do not. Like all children, we grow up and now as an adult I can't find anything interesting about the same playground i use to love when i was a child. The slide isn't that wonderful anymore and it's the same redundant standard structure. This is what i am finding with not only Aion but, other mmorpgs except what Bioware is putting out there with TOR.
I get the feeling that the designer of slides is standing next to me with a cart of different materials for the slide asking me "What would you like to make this slide more to your liking ?". Bioware has tapped into something that all Zelda games have. It talks to the player and not at the player. Well that's my understanding so far when you look at TOR. Aion is following World of Warcraft and placing the same redundant swing and repetitive slide giving the user little to no functional use out of it.
These are just my opinions so far about Aion. Feel free to disagree.
500k, apparently you don' t know anything about hype. At the launch of a new game the quality of Aion. The number will be much higher. However, how long they can sustain it remain to be seen. Since NCsoft doesn't have the millions of Blizzard fans to back them. WoW was a phenomenon not because it is an incredible game, but because it is made by Blizzard and it is derived from the ever popular Warcraft series.
Plus there are no need for Aion to compete with WoW. No one is saying Aion will kill WoW except the WoW fanboi or the WoW hater. Basically, stop it., seriously. No game will kill any other game completely as long as there are a stable player base that generates profit. Only games that gets cancelled and stopped are games that are not generating any profit, or are indeed way too old to genrate enough profit to sustain it's operational cost.
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
You have to also consider another factor. Blizzard is making a new mmorpg. What this means is Wow is not longer producing the results that Blizzard was hoping for and they know Wow is dying on it own. It's also now starting to become a learning tool for younger developers considering the B-Team is in charge. Jeff is working on the new mmorpg and when your lead designers start taking off to make new games those old games start to cool off and goes through a world of hurt with trial and error.
They take players feed back about different aspects that the B-team has made changes too a applies the good feedback in the new mmorpg.
Take the first Doom for example. Do people still play that game ? Sure from time to time you can catch a few pwning it up but, overall the game is in a dead state meaning the numbers of people playing have cooled off. Same will happen with Wow and we players will be it's downfall and no longer play it.
I have noticed mmorpger are leap froggers. They jump from 1 mmorpg to the next depending on the hype. I can find 5 mmorpgs right now that have better interaction then what Wow has in some aspects yet, those games have little to no hype. Aion right now considering it's the closes mmorpg to be release will be the FOTM for most mmorpger when it's release. Like every mmorpg before it and after Wow the numbers will die off considering there isn't anything really different when you compare it to Wow.
A mmorpg that will break this cycle will be one that has aspects about it no mmorpg has and a lot of it.
Aion isnt a WoW killer, infact no MMO will ever kill WoW. The only thing that is going to really be serious competition for WoW is Time.
Having said that though, personally i think AIon a lot more fun then WoW. It just has a very different feel to it and thats something that is missing in many MMOs today.
I dont care what other people are playing. If i find something more fun and enjoyable then i will play that. For me that is Aion.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
Wrong.
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition:
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
I bolded the important parts for you so you wouldn't get lost.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43735/World-of-WarCraft-11-5-Million-Subscribers
WoW had 11.5M paying customers. Deal.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
That may be true for some, but it wouldn't be for the majority.
WOW is a phenomenon in the MMO industry. It has outperformed even Blizzard's expectations probably by a magnitude of at least 10. They had, what 500k boxes ready for sale at launch? And they've now managed to pass 11 million subscribers. Most other mmos are happy if they simply maintain the same of subscribers as the number of boxes they sell at launch.
You don't have to hate them to speculate on how they'll fall. Simple curiosity is enough for that.
"11 million subscribers" was a buzz word and that's all that is. All that means is 11 million people have made a account and have tried the game. That also includes trial accounts. That doesn't include box sells or continuous use of the subscription account over a continuous amount of time. Got to love marketing, they always over embellish the size. The actual amount would probably be closer to 2 maybe 3 million people world wide that actually play. It's still impressive as far as mmorpgs go.
Wrong.
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition:
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.
I bolded the important parts for you so you wouldn't get lost.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43735/World-of-WarCraft-11-5-Million-Subscribers
WoW had 11.5M paying customers. Deal.
According to ign. Fair enough but, i still say it's embellish considering i know people with more then 1 account. I am talking about head counts here not how much someone has paid into the mmorpg. If 1 person buys three accounts divide that by 11 million. It's still impressive in sells don't get me wrong. However I'm not that impressed when you consider who might be buying those accounts. As we all know you have to take into account other variables like aka gold farmers and such.
It's not that big of deal guys.
Good wording, it HAD 11.5m subscribers.
Since some people care so much about subscription numbers, you must be pretty sad, with Chinese servers offline that number gets halved or even smaller as they haven't released the new numbers yet, why would they?
Does that indicate the upcoming death of WoW (even if it is by the hands of Blizzard's new MMO that probably won't be coming out within the next 3 years)? I don't care and you also shouldn't.
I must be pretty sad? Did I own a piece of Blizzard and not know about it? HOLY SHIT. I OWN A PIECE OF BLIZZARD AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT!!!! OMG WHAT'S THAT!!! WE JUST LOST 6MILLION SUBSCRIBERS. ZOMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!.
Oh wait. What's that now? The Chinese only account for a very small fraction of WoW's income because they pay considerably less for game-time coupled with the fact that The9 as the licensee receives the lion's share of the profits? So you mean to tell me that WoW is still making more money than God, the Devil, or AION could imagine? Well shizzle my nizzle it seems my BILLIONS are safe.
Carry on then Eric, I'm sure there's countless other threads out there that could use your sparkling intellect to help shiny up the place. God knows, if it wasn't for you, I'd never have been made aware that I'm a majority owner in Blizzard stocks. I'd buy you something real nice but well you know how it is...I can' be seen mingling with the poor. What would Doris at the Country Club have to say to about that. Nothing pleasant I tell you, nothing pleasant.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
WoW is the grindiest mmo I've ever played.
Six weeks of raid-grinding the same instance at end-game just about made me want to stick a fork in my eye. And that doesn't even take into account the many reputation grinds...
Aion looks to be cut from the same cloth, but at least mixes it up potentially more interesting PvP.
And FYI - there is life beyond the USA :P
and yet less than 20% of WoW gamers raid, but there is plenty of other stuff to do besides PvP, which is another niche play style in itself, unlike Aion after level 25.
Considering the 500K reference was about US subscriptions stated by other posters, I'm not sure what your point is. Seperate markets, seperate points.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I must be pretty sad? Did I own a piece of Blizzard and not know about it? HOLY SHIT. I OWN A PIECE OF BLIZZARD AND DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT!!!! OMG WHAT'S THAT!!! WE JUST LOST 6MILLION SUBSCRIBERS. ZOMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!.
Oh wait. What's that now? The Chinese only account for a very small fraction of WoW's income because they pay considerably less for game-time coupled with the fact that The9 as the licensee receives the lion's share of the profits? So you mean to tell me that WoW is still making more money than God, the Devil, or AION could imagine? Well shizzle my nizzle it seems my BILLIONS are safe.
Carry on then Eric, I'm sure there's countless other threads out there that could use your sparkling intellect to help shiny up the place. God knows, if it wasn't for you, I'd never have been made aware that I'm a majority owner in Blizzard stocks. I'd buy you something real nice but well you know how it is...I can' be seen mingling with the poor. What would Doris at the Country Club have to say to about that. Nothing pleasant I tell you, nothing pleasant.
Blizzard hasn't lost anything in terms of sells. If anything they have made back the money 10 fold. By not listening to the masses, by making everything a angry experience for some. Blizzard has sealed there fate.
If you pissed me off with stuff in Wow what makes you think I or any of my friends are going to touch your new mmorpg let alone your new rpg and rts ? For ever one person Blizzard pissed off say goodbye to 4 of his friends. It's simple marketing and only Blizzard is to blame. With that aside i truly hope Aion does listen to their player base because people like you and I that wake up every day, turn on the computer and login for the next 18 hours drive the market. Casual players are good for a quick buck but, do not invest the amount of time or money like us crazies do.
In order for a game to finally achieve "WoW killer" status, it will have to be simplistic enough to lure away the braindead masses, thus being of no real interest to players such as myself, who don't want it all on a silver platter.
Indeed, I am thankful that Aion will not be a WoW killer.
Which FF Character Are You?
WoW is the grindiest mmo I've ever played.
Six weeks of raid-grinding the same instance at end-game just about made me want to stick a fork in my eye. And that doesn't even take into account the many reputation grinds...
Aion looks to be cut from the same cloth, but at least mixes it up potentially more interesting PvP.
And FYI - there is life beyond the USA :P
and yet less than 20% of WoW gamers raid, but there is plenty of other stuff to do besides PvP, which is another niche play style in itself, unlike Aion after level 25.
Considering the 500K reference was about US subscriptions stated by other posters, I'm not sure what your point is. Seperate markets, seperate points.
I know that WOW has many varieties of end-game grinds (see my original post above). And that kind of variety is smart design-wise, because it improves the likelihood that there'll be some kind of grind that people like.
But it's still grind.
You really think that less than 20% of WOW gamers raid? I haven't played for a few years, but everyone who could raided when I used to play. No crafted or pvp gear came anywhere near being as good as raid gear. And from what friends who kept playing after I left have told me, they made a lot changes to raids to make it easier for people, so I'd have thought more would be doing it.
The 500k in US is from the OP - fair enough. That's not on the same page as your post and not clear in it.
Define silver platter. Do you mean being a GL that just take what he wants regardless or someone that spends hours killing the same mobs for rep to get an item of his choice ? Imho it has and always should be about time vs reward.
I spend a week grinding w.e (quests, storyline, rep ect) i should get a cutting edge progression item. I'll be damned if i ever find myself sucking a tit of a person i have nerver meet for a vitural item that will increase my classes performance for a short amount of time like many of you do. I maybe sad that i keep vent recordings around just to make me feel better knowing that there is way more pathetic people in this world then i am for a good laugh but w.e. Keep sucking the tit i guess. I'll just bitch and cry to the devs about how shitty the game is that forces me to preform such a pathetic act of self sacrifice to progress the class i am playing.
Kudos on your (lack of) social skills ...?
What can I say, the only way you will discover how far off you are regarding (good) guilds is by running one yourself. Then you'll realise that in most (good) guilds, the guild leader and officers are usually the ones putting most of the work and reaping the least of the benefits to make the whole thing happen. Some also pay from their own pockets from benefits outside the game, like ventrilo/TS servers, web space etc.
Would you want somebody with your attitude in your guild? That's an interesting question you need to answer for yourself.
Ugh, another WoW Killer thread? What a surprise....
Everyone needs to stop complaining about WoW being a giant skyscraper of cards just waiting to be blown over. It's getting old. No matter what the game, the chances of it completly dying out are slim. Aion will not be a WoW killer. The only game that can kill WoW is inevitably itself. In a few years, it will be outdated like any other game. It may keep a dedicated few who still enjoy the game, but another game will simply take it's crown. It's the circle of life in the MMO world. But who knows? Aion may just pull a sly one and maintain over 4 million subs and then steal another 4 off of WoW. If you like Aion, fine. If you like WoW, that's dandy. If you like both, than big props to you for standing out in both crowds!
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Tera, Kingdoms of Amular, Firefall
I have ran guilds (pvp ones) and I have also been a officer in others (pve ones). I think I do understand. I get a pretty clear picture why so many enjoy being a part of a collective group of gamers. I also respect this to a degree because, i also find myself partaking in such groups. I just feel that it's being over emphasized way too much and is being used as a form of abuse "You don't like this guy, expect to not get anywhere:". Imho one player should never hold any power over another player in any mmorpg unless it's compared against skill on the battlefield.
Personally why should i care who does what and when or gets whatever they are after and why should you ? Really there Is real reason too. Logically that is.
In the end though i have to agree with you. It comes down to the people you are grouped with. I just do not agree that the game should empowers those people over the masses of the whole mmorpg's community. What i believe is a misunderstanding problem is that any mmorpg should have that element that the paper and pen D&D environment had. It's sort of flawed when you introduce it to the Internets. For example,
Back when D&D was the in thing to do. People that enjoyed grouping wih random people would only do so once in a blue moon. Going to events and places to meet new people and that's great but, it didn't happen all the time and that's what made it special.
In games like Aion and Wow they take that small wonderful random encounter and milk it to a degree where it become almost making a normal person wanting to drill their temple out with a corkscrew to relieve themselves from that squeaky vocal person on the other side of ventrilo or spamming the crap out of your chatbox with colored text.
Now don't get my wrong, i do group and i enjoy it most of the time but, it's not a matter about social interaction. It's the matter of controlling that social interaction that matters to me as a player. Everything in a Mmorpg is individuale base. Armor, Weapons, enchantments ects are all directed toward 1 person and not a group effort or benifit. True that person might help you out the next time you go into an encounter and then his progression becomes yours if you get something out of it but, overall and at it's root it's a very much individuale based progression game. Why the need for this much group game play is beyond me.
Personally Mmorpg just means that. A place i can go where a mass amount of people are playing the same game. Co-op on the otherhand i view to be better directed towards fps like TF2 and Battlefield for obvious reasons. I just don't see Co-op being a large part of any mmorpg other then a means to an end and not a place i would enjoy a social grathing of fellow players interaction.
Athene said it best imho
"I play the game to pwn noobs." I don't see Aion being any different.
People are going to check out other games besides WoW, people are waiting for AION, people are waiting for the upcoming Star Wars MMO, people are waiting for this, people are waiting for that... GOOD!!! I'm glad to see that the PC game market has become so active and competitive!
Not too long ago the PC gaming market was being hailed as on it's way out and dying. Along comes an easily accessible game like WoW and breathes a new breath of life into a fading and tired industry, and presto, we're all back to clamoring over the huge selection of games before us once again, with some people making ridiculous claim that "this one will be the WoW killer!" /eyeroll
We should all be happy that something has raised the bar within the industry so high that every other game developer is scrambling to beat it with something better. Blizzard, as well as a few other important and clever developers (i.e. CCP "EVE Online"), have really raised the bar for the entire industry, and the rewards are ours to reap as we begin to see a vast selection of other MMOs hit the market that have something to offer for so many varied and individual tastes.
Personally, I'm enjoying my time in the AION beta very much, and I will be playing it when it goes live, but I bear Blizzard no ill will. Their creative development team and incredible advancements in designing very intuitive and easy-to-use User Interfaces have made me appreciate what WoW brought to the market, and it has set a standard for other MMOs that will follow it. It's also one of the few MMOs to tackle so many different environments for exploration, from swimming mechanics to flying mechanics and everything else in between.
I can only hope that AION will take notes and meet or surpass many of the expectations that people will have, in order for it to succeed and survive post-WoW.
Yes we all can thank Blizzard for those key points but, I hope when other Devs look at Wow they don't consider everything in that game to be the standard to making a mmorpg or we will be right back where we started before wow was released when it comes to mmorpgs.
I don't think that a WoW killer is a smart thing to desire, if you want choices in the available MMOs released and developed. Therefore, Aion not being an WoW killer is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather we have 5-10 MMOs that all together share the WoW market force than one MMO that will recreate the WoW phenomenon.
Regarding the previous poster. For me, MMOs are about collaboration and cooperation. Athene's philosophy is an abomination in my eyes that doesn't fit anywhere, PvE or PvP. It will take great guilds, aka great collaborators, to maintain the hold of castles in Aion and will take great cooperators to beat the PvE encounters of the game. And of course, this is not strictly Aion related, as for me, it is a philosophy that enchances gameplay in all MMOs I've played. It may also come as surprise to some, but I've met people in MMOs, that have became very dear friends in RL, long after I quit playing those games. So the relationships developed in these social games are not like a TV switch, which you switch off and they disappear once you stop gaming.
All mmo have trouble with balance in the beginning, if you played enough of them you should know that. Even WoW had that and is still having that id might add, but that is the way they want it, othervise they wouldnt make one class best then next month or patchday another class best. These are facts.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.
Personally, I don't care what kills WoW. My PC couldnt handle EQ2 way back when, so I went to wow and loved it.(for a while)I'm a long time EQ / DAoC gamer and I am LOVING Aion. It will be a breath of fresh air for all the people who are just sick of playing wow. I for one am one of them, along with a lot of people I know personally, and a lot of people here. The people who tried WAR / AoC will move to wow. Every old school DAoC player will be in Aion. Oh, and for the most part, most of these people who first mentioned the words "wow killer" are wow players themselves. People sick of wow just don't care what happens to it.
How can you compare tactical strategies in numbers to be on the same level as someones individual's progression ? Last i checked in Aion if you equipped a weapon i do not receive the benefits from that item. How does group ramification matter ? It's all about who has what and how good they are with it. In the end it's about beating the guy in front of you to a blood pulp and hold your own.
You are only as strong as your weakest link in group pvp. Are you the weakest link ? As for the Athene part I think you misunderstood what he meant. The final goal or whatever for him was playing his best for the content he enjoyed the most. What kept him playing was the ability to keep progressing in his favorit content given how hard the class he was playing was to play. I can till you this right now. No one plays a game for other people. Being a gamer a mmorpger in this case. You keep doing it for selfish reasons whatever they might be. I merely pointed out that i can relate to Athene when it comes to playing mmorpgs because that's my selfish reason for playing them too.