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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Dice Rolls in Multiplayer Dialogue?
MikeB
Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555
One issue that has many fans wondering is how Star Wars: The Old Republic will be handling their "interactive dialogue system" aka multiplayer dialogue. Who speaks? When? How do I stop someone from griefing my story? These are all questions that come up when contemplating this feature. While it is unique to say the least, it's obviously also a can of worms.
The latest video documentary for The Old Republic focusing on the voice-over on the game may give us some clues as to how this system will work.
A blog following The Old Republic known as "Darth Hater" has gone and dissected the latest video documentary, and among all the little tidbits of information one in particular stood out: when two players are involved in a dialogue there are apparently dice rolls going on alongside the character portraits in the group window.
This leads the blogger, as well as myself, to wonder: Will dice rolls be handling who speaks in a group dialogue situation?
What do you make of it? Let us know in the comments.
Check out the full video dissection over at the Darth Hater blog.
Comments
I really hope that the story isn't decided on dice rolls. Aside from the obvious (you want control of your own story), dice rolling to see who "goes" is just going to limit a lot of enjoyability. What if you're working alongside someone who's a bit darker? Why can't you turn on them going "shut the hell up and stop being a dick to him!" Why wouldn't NPCs react to this infighting?
If the whole point of this system is immersion, but you can't even do something as simple as disagree with another player in your party because they want to say A and you want to say B, then what's the point of even creating a system that will make you feel like you're always at the mercy of your group mates?
Was wondering when a full detailed analysis was going to come up.
I can see the dice rolls in dialouge if you are going to make some skills akin to diplomacy. Persuade, Intimidate, Soothe, etc. The dice checks to see if you succeed in influencing the discussion to your vantage and failure means you have to try again or worse, lose diplomatic options to you for some time (or just altogether - combat or the NPC refuses to speak with you unless you build some faction up or something.)
Of course all this is speculative. But what else can we do until we see/ hear more?
This game is going to be a blast methinks.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
We shall see how they play this out. Will the conversation always go one on one? Meaning if you are in a group, one player cant mess up your direction of the conversation. Lets say Sith A and BH player B are chatting to the NPC. The BH is being naughty and acts hostile to the NPC. His dialouge spirals quickly into anger and the NPC says "Off with ya." The Sith is moving the conversation ahead and gets what he wants out of the dialogue, maybe a new objective or clue or reward. The BH does not receive the benefit of this like the Sith does, but they can still travel in the instance together and do what needs to be done.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
After watching the video doc I sure hope the game animations get smoother....eeek. Also, what is with the green boxy figures showing smugglers where to go for cover? Talk about holding a players hand. Plus the game play looks so linear. Like you ahve no choice but to do things a certain way and you must go here and you must go there and do this particular thing and that particular thing. Is there any freedom at all in the game regarding how, when and where we the player would like to take our character?
I know it sounds like I am knit-picking, but sheeesh...after watching those scenes it's as if everything is staged and your character is basically just along for the ride because the designers have all ready written what you'll be doing through out the game.
So my questions are.
Is there any freedom what so ever in this game?
How much MMO is there percentage wise to single player game?
Game looks like KoToR and seems to play like KoToR, now show us the MMO part of the game.
I could not have said this better myself..
Again, take this with a grain of salt. One gameplay video is not enough to surmise much with any credence.
I do not believe SW: TOR will be like a Mount and Blade / Darkfall where freedom is abound. The game seems to live and die by instances. Very Immersive, but very restrictive. I am hoping that they revise that cover ability as well, maybe they should take a lesson from typical FPS games where you can crouch/ hide anywhere, but the game tells you how much cover you have wherever you decide to hide. To tell us where you can/ cannot hide for cover is insulting to a gamer.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
Well many have asked how the game will handle dialogue options in a group situation and this seems to be one way they are doing it.
It seems to me like, like in this case with two players, they both select their option and which option goes through is decided by a dice roll. Would make sense, if players can actually opt out from the dice rolling and decide themselves. Easy way to accomplish this would be for the other person to just wait out, as in not to select an option (or was there an option like to pass turn?).
The dice rolling does seem to add a nice layer of randomness to the encounters, a good RPG element, where you might not always get what you want or the result you were expecting. Someone mentioned that it is important that "you control your story", but porting storytelling to MMO should probably do the opposite. I am sure you can still control the main story of your character. However, for side quests and such, this type of dialogue adds a level of roleplaying not available in any other MMO, were you can actually play a role with your character outside combat :P I most certainly would play my character how I would expect him to behave. Like playing a Sith and killing the captain for his failures, after all a failure like him has no further uses for me...plus a little bit of fear never hurts on a deck of Star Destroyer :P
You can also see in other parts options like "Persuade", which most likely is a unique option tied to a skill. And also there is a mention that some dialogue options only appear with certain classes. So this would add replayability to the missions/quests etc.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Lol, I can already see entirely new spaces for griefing!
Hey, wait I want to let him live... WAIT NO... NOOO... I DONT WANT HIM DEAD... Great, now his uncle and his 23 children and grandchildrena and former classmates and neighbors and all going after me, thank you very much...
All because of some dice roll? *__*
The point is, I can't imagine any OTHER way to make a MMO dialogue like this. Some will have to go along with that others decide, no matter what mechanism decides it. Maybe speech and diplo skills will add to it, or charisma or what. I bet thats another Pandora Box yet unopened.
I was under the impression that after all the E3 posts, this was a "flashpoint" A certain point in the game that is made just for your character (Group) that was no one else. Similar to how some story parts of LotRO is handled.
They mentioned in the same interview that they wanted huge open areas to explore and be seen, if I recall correctly, which seems directly opposite to the flashpoint storyline thingys.
This does not seem like a sandbox freedom game. This looks like they might heard you towards certain areas, but having no real data, they could keep it super handholding/linear like the first 25 or so levels of Aion. Or it could be very open, with only the flashpoints being very tied down to certain spots/areas/storylines.
I would not doubt the whole LotRO sort of "Epic book Quest", where many parts are solo, but is basically outside of the entire open world (Mostly), relative to the single player part. Of course, The Epic quests in LotRO were often group. Again without concrete info, these flashpoints could be only certain story line quests, or could be the entire game. It really is unknown at this point.
As to it looking like KotOR, well..yeah :P. I doubt we will see much MMO aprt of the game till much later. As mentioned in other threads, they really don't seem keen on letting other MMO's, especially blizzard, take their ideas before this game is released.
I would really dislike a whole, "roll" on where the conversation will go. Even if it is a good friend of mine I am playing with, if they are playing a different way, and what I choose affects their standings...Well...That would be unfun for both of us.
I'd also like to point to the irrational hate brigade (ie, NOT the person I'm quoting) that contrary to stupid belief that was in fact NOT a gameplay video but a video about the voice overs.
We have yet to see a genuine gameplay video.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
[quote]I would really dislike a whole, "roll" on where the conversation will go. Even if it is a good friend of mine I am playing with, if they are playing a different way, and what I choose affects their standings...Well...That would be unfun for both of us.[/quote]
I see that as a great way to actually allow a role-playing element in MMOs. It has never been done. There really are no interactive stories in MMOs. And about standing, I can easily see how that problem could be handled...where you only get points from your own actions. If the Sith player decides to cut down the captain, it should affect his "standings" and not yours.
You can also make the griefing argument, I can even appreciated as who the heck would like to be griefed. However, I would absolutely hate to see these potentially great features removed from a game due to a small number of idiots. You cannot stop idiots, sosiopaths or psycopaths from being born, but you can isolate them. And that has already been done to my satisfaction.
Let's look at the market leader for example, WoW, and how the group dynamics in instances work. The whole terminology that surrounds the issue around pick up groups. The game mechanisims allow you to remove people from a group and ignore any players you choose. That is good enough for me.
What is wrong with the evolution of MMO as a genre is quite accurately touched in the following article:
www.massively.com/2008/10/25/player-reactions-to-wow-zombie-plague-are-both-positive-and-nega
I felt kinda defeated when reading that article and tried really hard to understand those sentiments. In short, why is MMOs as a genre stagnated? It is partly due to players who do not like change or any kind of dynamic content. These are players who prefer familiarity and are quick to detest anything that would inconvinience them from their daily routine. Developers no longer dare to take risk because the lynch mob is outside waiting to hack their ideas to pieces. Not all ideas have to be great, but they are often killed before they even leave the drawing board.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
It seems the small numbers aren't dice rolls but more light/dark indication.
First the Sith goes up to 150, going over 100 for a dice roll would be unusual.
Then the numbers changes after the dialogues cut scenes.
For example the Sith goes from 50 before killing the captain to 150 after.
Also it seems depending on the answers choosen the small green circle goes lighter or darker.
Erm... it is done. In pen and paper games. At least those I know. The group makes the dialogue together and then everyone has to live with the results. Plus, those who have diplomacy, charisma or social standing influence the dialogue much more. BUT: in a pen and paper group it is usually the ever same team of friends; they know each other, they can make a break and talk to each others. But is THAT possible in a MMO? I honestly fear that will make it even LESS likely anyone will invite another player into his story adventure. "No thanks, I better take my NPC companion along, who has no wishes of his own"?
Now when every quest is unique, as we are always told, who will like to take people along, who may ruin your story?? I mean, why should I take that risk, unless it is a really good RL friend who I can trust to tag along with me? Hm.
I believe I was talking about MMOs.
And to your last point, I think I answered it already. But also why do you take people, even randoms, to instances with you in a WOW, knowing that they might take your piece of loot you and thus spoiling your goal? Simply, because it is acceptable behaviour within the game. No different for the dialogue options in my opinion.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Because just like on these forums, not everyone has the same oppinion. :-pwould make an interesting dynamic. Keep in mind this early footage they showed at e3 and things can and will change. For all we know the dice rolls are something you may only see in public type quests,or more than 2 players, but they just wanted to show it working in this event.
Yes, you are nitpicking. Nothing is optimized yet since the game is still in development. Things can and will change, including many of those scenes. They showed this stuff because people asked for it, even though it is too early. Keep in mind the real point of the video Voices of The Old Republic, and that you have to admit looks to be done well.
Also, nobody seem to have mentioned it, but all characters seem to have quite complex set of facial expressions and animations going along with dialogue in every scene.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I hate to find a bone of contention with Bioware but I have to totally agree with this statement they really need to add to the dialogue dynamic in the fashion you mention if the person who wins the die roll goes against your own desired response you should be able to make an "argument" there by giving you personally the reaction from that npc that you would have gotten had you won the die roll at least for future encounters. I for one am not going to be excited about the prospect of having some jerk off screw up the storyline for me
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The more I see the less interest I have in this game.
I really hope the graphics are better then what's being shown. I realize graphics don't make a game, but it increases the level of immersion. Being the marketed goal is "to immerse the player into the storyline" I seriously hope they aren't forgoing graphics as a gamble it'll be more playable to those who can't afford these games to begin with. It needs to scale upwards just as well as being able to scale downwards and I hope they're showing the lower graphical settings as they don't look nearly as good as they should.
in advance - AoC has increadible graphics, yes, but its percieved failure was due to the absence of rpg and MMO specific features not to mention many of what was present was outright broken. That game also had a LOT of voice overs and animated actors. If it were done right and the initial gripes voiced prior to launch were listend to it might have been THE only MMO to play, but that's history.
When I look at some of the screen shots and video diaries of this new Star Wars MMO it just leaves me with a lot more "Blah" then the nescesarry "Ooohs and Ahhhs".
p.s. Dare I admit to have liked the animated Clone Wars much more then the last three movies - the cartoons actualy had more life then some of the real actors.
That is one of the reasons I hope Bioware does not focus on graphics from here on. AOC is all graphics over game play that was company's policy since 2006/07 or whenever dx10 was announced.
Companies can always give a game a face lift, without affecting player base, but you can't do the same with game play.
People need to stop using AOC as a justification for having crappy graphics. The game is pretty damned good now, and it's nice to have our cake (graphics) and eat it too (gameplay).
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I've read through the other posts here and I'm honestly shocked no one has said this yet. I really don't think Bioware would allow storyline-changing events to be decided by someone besides the quest owner.
This video appears to be a Sith quest.
The dialogue switches between the Bounty Hunter and the Sith, but if you notice the Bounty Hunter is not the one that chooses to kill the captain, it is the Sith. The Bounty Hunter has a role in the dialogue, but does not make any game-changing decisions. I assume this is because it is not his quest, he is simply helping his Sith buddy.
After playing all of Bioware's other games I would be shocked if they did something as stupid as allow party members to determine your character's storyline.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."