Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Ramifications of owning your own avatar.
Veridic
Member Posts: 72
Before this gets going, I would like to please ask that if you do reply- reply from both sides. Pros and cons, at least for your first reply.
As someone who has been a part of the MMO scene for quite some time, I find myself dissatisfied with the fact that even though the games I've played were entertaining- the pride in my characters that I once clinged to seems sad. Not because "it's just a game" or that games are purely for entertainment value- but because those characters I am proud of, are technically not my own.
Coming to this realization was not a pleasant trip for me. Every time I log into a game- I sink time and effort into bettering a character that is not my own and at any time it could be taken back or simply erased. (I've known this for quite some time, but it did not hit me until reading a recent post about someone being banned that struck a chord).
This spurred me to wonder what if a game company actually gave you the rights to your character (avatar and name) within the limits and reaches of its individual gaming world and community... Of course one would not be entitled to the code or actually anything more than its account, image, contents, name, and upkeep (paying a proper fee), but the gamer would be the actual "owner" of said character/account.
Pro:
Giving the consumer another level of attachment to said game- most likely keeping them paying/playing longer, aiding in the game being better longer.
Building a true market value for the gamer's time spent playing games.
Cons:
The added strain on a company knowing if something goes wrong they could be held liable for the loss of property/damages. (Though I'm sure some EULA working could be inserted to indemnify the company themself from unforeseeable losses).
An even more rampant market for accounts/characters/in game items for real money (I personally do not see this as a con, merely playing devil's advocate).
I won't ramble or delve too deep into either side because that would take the fun away from my morning trolls and avid thought slingers 
.
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
Comments
You need to clarify what rights you are referring to.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Well i fail to see why you think any developer might take or delete your character on purpose. This comes back also to ownership of virtual property, something that does not exist. I do understand the attachment to characters made in the games, I feel this is a pointless thread.
The paragraph threw me off a cliff, I am sorry. I don't get your main point.
Are you talking about:
1. The right to own a character to use in various different game.
2. The right to ownership of the data of the character in one game. <--- I am betting on thsi but not 100% sure.
Well 1 is basically impossible in a free economy so lets just ignore that.
Well 2 is as followed:
Pro:
Game company is happy from extra income for just maintaining the character.
You get to own your character including the rights to protect it as your property. Which means you can't get banned, I think this one is also a con.
Con:
Insane lawsuit ramifications for the game company.
Additional payment soley for the ownership of an account and avatar for a single game.
Various practicality issues that will result in more problem than it is worth for a company. Especially once the game get into a certain vintage age.
I don't understand what you get that you don't have now.
Obviously owning your character won't make any difference if the developer shuts down the game, and you can't expect a developer to promise to keep the game going if they are losing money, just because you "own" your character.
So I don't think you're asking for a developer to promise to keep the game going for as long as you live and own your character.
But if not, then what? As mentioned above, a developer isn't going to erase your character for no good reason, they want you to come back and pay a subscription fee.
Also, if you're not playing it, why do you want it? Maybe they could give players a program that lets you download your character and look at it.
So you can't use this program to upload anything to the game, but you can just run the program and look at the paperdoll of your character, his stats, equipment, ablitiies, etc. That should be pretty easy to do.
Then, you could keep that forever if you like. How about that?
I am sorry for not being very clear about what exactly the rights would be and to what- I was hoping that would develop in the thread (if I knew the answer to my own quandry I would have no need to ask).
Also sorry you see this as a pointless thread- it was not made because I fear that a company would randomly delete my character but as it stands I do know people who have truly been banned for reasons to this day that are still unknown to them. Again I would appreciate actual input into this topic and not my lack of knowledge on the subject matter- I did not intend for this to be a "I think it should be this way, why not" and I am pretty sure I did not convey it as such.
And Neosai yes, 2- you got what I was saying.
I am curious how long it will take for people to rationally debate subjects that are sloughed off as a non factor because it will never happen- when in fact it will never happen if it is not debated (this in reference to ownership of virtual property).
Thanks for the replies either way
Anyone else?
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
As I mentioned above, how can you own something that does not exist. It is not the same as intellectual property, and as someone said. If they shut the servers down, then what?
As for friends being randomly banned, well I dont really believe that, what benefit is that to the likes of SOE, Blizzard, EA etc.., its more likely they got caught doing something and wont admit it.
What data do you want the right to? The database entry? What would you do with it? I'm trying to understand what it is that you are looking for rights to and so far you haven't explained that. If Neosai's point #2 is what you are referring to, could you explain what you mean by that?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Firstly, thank you Imhotepp- I mostly enjoy your posts
I suppose it would be that you could sell your character, and account without worrying about the company banning it. Though I am pretty sure I am looking for something more than that, as that really doesn't interest me much... Heh, I really do enjoy the idea of perhaps a small stand alone client that runs locally allowing you to view your character/achievments/stats etc. even after the game has closed... Then maybe even a site that interacts with that data where you could store it and show it off to others or even use it as a collection tool- you could go and view characters from games you've played and dominated... like a testament to the time you put in.
I've taken thousands of screenshots over the years, and invetably lost each one =/.
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
What data do you want the right to? The database entry? What would you do with it? I'm trying to understand what it is that you are looking for rights to and so far you haven't explained that. If Neosai's point #2 is what you are referring to, could you explain what you mean by that?
I honestly wish I knew... I keep trying to type it out, but nothing I am typing is sounding right when I read it back... It's all just code and scripted mess I know but... Meh... maybe he's right, this is a pointless thread.... I just have some want- some urge to own whatever it is I used to connect with other people, and shared so much enjoyment through over the years. Because when I think about it, and put it all into perspective, in the end it was nothing more than an interactive movie that amounts to basically nil. Sure the people you meet is great- or can be, but the story you were a part of in whatever world it may have been should be accessible somehow other than memories.
Maybe I just need to write some fantasy novel ... *sigh* this is turning out to be a dreary look into my head rather than an outward discussion of intellectual property and virtual property.
Does anyone get what I am saying?
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
Czarre has a site you may like: http://www.theburialgrounds.com/
I used to write stories about my character's adventures. Stuff like this: Knees Deep in Elves (Lineage 2)
Maybe doing something like that would work for you?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The problem is, whether you own the character or not is mostly irrelevant. It's not a physical thing that you can remove - except by deleting - from the game and use elsewhere, as if it were a character sheet you could just use in some other GM's game. There is nothing you can do with that game character besides play it, in that game. And if in the hypothetical situation it becomes yours, you can still have it banned or deleted because it is a part of a game that is NOT yours. You can't sell the character itself as most games don't allow the transfer of specific characters, and though you can sell the account, it's usually declared illegal in the EULA.
The most "owning" your pixels would do is allow you to profit from the art/fiction involving them. By companies stating ownership of avatars, they reserve the right to use those avatars, but when have you EVER heard of this happening? It doesn't, and it's little more than legal buffer. This is because, even if you did own the character, you wouldn't/couldn't own the name, you wouldn't own any items they're equipped with (owned by the game), you wouldn't own the setting (owned by the game), or really even the character's history since that develops as you play the game. There's no real way for you to own that character even if the company were willing to give it to you, and there's really no incentive to want to own it. As for selling your fan-art or publishing your fan-fiction, go right ahead; I see CoH/WoW fan-art on DA with prints for sale/commission all the time and the companies couldn't care less, it's technically free publicity. I'm unclear of the line on fan-fiction though. I'm sure you couldn't publish an actual book on it, but I see plenty of free fiction out there.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I think everyone understands to one degree or another the conection with your characters, but well sum above, its not just your character, its the game. Just be grateful you own the memories is the soppy finish!
I used to write stories about my character's adventures. Stuff like this: Knees Deep in Elves (Lineage 2)
Maybe doing something like that would work for you?
Very cool! I love the idea, but seeing the actual character itself would be the tits. And as for the stories- I definately think I am going to give it a whirl. Thanks alot Lynx
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
Yea... I suppose- but the notion of fan-art and fan-fiction is an idea I have yet to toy with... immortalizing and owning my characters through a story other than the one in my memories is a great idea- I suppose I would have to change the names of the places, but the character names could be the same... so long as I wasn't grouping with "Popsi cola" "Mista miagi" and "Volde mort" at the time eh? Hah!
Thanks ^ ^
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
First off, you can take a screenshot of your chraracter and his stats and equipment and keep that forever. No one can take it from you.
Second, as I see it, the character represents data in your account. Technically that data is attached to an account and not necesserily a character. You lease the account ( for lack of a better term, I do not believe you own an account ) and as long as you follow the EULA and TOS you should not have an issue maintaining or keeping the account.
Should you stop leasing the account the company should have the right to reclaim the space required to maintain the data. Most of them do not as they understand the attachment of players to their characters and will usually maintain the database as is for player retention or comback.
I guess the main question is what is it you want to OWN? I know of no other game company that will sell YOUR account to another customer even after said account has been inactive for a period of time. Essentially this is giving you and you only the rights to that data and that account. It would not be good industry practice for a company to RE-SELL used accounts.
The data is not useable outside of the enviornment in which it was intended. It is just data that includes information on how to display the character in a physical form that is not useable outside of the game environment.
Giving you the rights to this data would allow you to personally sell the account on EBAY or some other venue. Most game publishers frown on this behavior if not actively pursue legal measures against the parties involved. For this reason alone you will NEVER have rights to the account by most game developers standards.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
It would also be a waste of time since eh programmers can easily generate thousands of accounts and characters at different levels and with different gear whenever they want. There is no practical reason to reuse an old character except maybe as a template.
This would be the best/only way IMO to do it, because sooner or later the game will get shut down
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/user/BettyofDewm/videos
Did this idea happen to come from "Sony's ban challenged in court" threadf?