Think of it as life in a game versus no life in a game.
When I load up, for example, Halo, the game world starts running. When I turn it off, the Halo "environment" stops running and nothing can happen in that "environment".
In a Persistent game, when you turn it off, the "environment" continues to be active and things can continue to happen in the "environment". Its a simple as that. Static versus Dynamic have nothing to do it. Whether something actually happens in the "environment" doesn't matter. The problem I think some of you are having is you're applying the broad definition of "persistent" in a static sense rather than a relative sense. Nothing, from a static perspective, is persistent in a virtual environment. Simply remove power from the source providing the virtual environment, and you've no longer got a persistent environment.
On the other hand, relative to an individual, something like an MMORPG is persistent as the MMORPG (as long as its running) continues to be an active environment in which things CAN (not necessarily will) happen regardless of the individual. If it is impossible for something to happen even when the individual is not interacting with the game (most single-player games) then it is not persistent in any sense of the word.
"Edit: look, I am well aware of the English meaning of the word. In my opinion the definition of "persistent" in context of games, implies change to the game's world while you're not there. The more drastic the change, the more persistent the game world feels."
I think you're honestly thinking of dynamic. Because what you've just said is basically what dynamic is. The more drastic the change, the more dynamic the world feels.
The game IS persistant. No matter what it feels like. It just is. It's like saying is their air or not? You can't see it, taste it, smell it ect ect, but it IS there. It's a fact. The same with Persistance. The world IS persistant no matter what it feels like.
However, people keep trying to add the word dynamic to the word persistant, and make them 1 definition. They're just not. They are two seperate words, with two different meanings. One can be related to the other, but they are not inherantly related.
"Edit: look, I am well aware of the English meaning of the word. In my opinion the definition of "persistent" in context of games, implies change to the game's world while you're not there. The more drastic the change, the more persistent the game world feels." I think you're honestly thinking of dynamic. Because what you've just said is basically what dynamic is. The more drastic the change, the more dynamic the world feels. The game IS persistant. No matter what it feels like. It just is. It's like saying is their air or not? You can't see it, taste it, smell it ect ect, but it IS there. It's a fact. The same with Persistance. The world IS persistant no matter what it feels like.
However, people keep trying to add the word dynamic to the word persistant, and make them 1 definition. They're just not. They are two seperate words, with two different meanings. One can be related to the other, but they are not inherantly related.
The words "persistent" and "dynamic" are two separate words. However, when used in context of video games, the term is "persistent world" and words "dynamic" and "static" are words describing that term.
Pay especially close attention to this "A persistent world is influenced by the actions of the players that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those players, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that things are different than when he left."
Persistent worlds feel more persistent when they are dynamic because the fact that the game always changes (EVE), emulate our world much closer then games with static worlds (WoW).
Again, I'm not talking about the English language definition of the words "static," "dynamic" and "persistent." I'm talking about the term "persistent world" and how static and dynamic relate to it.
"Edit: look, I am well aware of the English meaning of the word. In my opinion the definition of "persistent" in context of games, implies change to the game's world while you're not there. The more drastic the change, the more persistent the game world feels." I think you're honestly thinking of dynamic. Because what you've just said is basically what dynamic is. The more drastic the change, the more dynamic the world feels. The game IS persistant. No matter what it feels like. It just is. It's like saying is their air or not? You can't see it, taste it, smell it ect ect, but it IS there. It's a fact. The same with Persistance. The world IS persistant no matter what it feels like.
However, people keep trying to add the word dynamic to the word persistant, and make them 1 definition. They're just not. They are two seperate words, with two different meanings. One can be related to the other, but they are not inherantly related.
The words "persistent" and "dynamic" are two separate words. However, when used in context of video games, the term is "persistent world" and words "dynamic" and "static" are words describing that term.
Pay especially close attention to this "A persistent world is influenced by the actions of the players that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those players, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that things are different than when he left."
Persistent worlds feel more persistent when they are dynamic because the fact that the game always changes (EVE), emulate our world much closer then games with static worlds (WoW).
Again, I'm not talking about the English language definition of the words "static," "dynamic" and "persistent." I'm talking about the term "persistent world" and how static and dynamic relate to it.
The quote you offer is a description of a persistent world, not a definition of one. Let me re-word that quote in a way that says the exact same thing, but without any "dynamic" implications.
"A persistent world is influenced by the actions of an individual that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those individuals, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that nothing is different than when he left."
Still true because a persistent world, even by the description you quoted, doesn't have to change. Merely has the capability of changing. At no point does a "persistent world" have to change an inch for it to gain its "persistent" qualification. It merely has to have the capability.
Out of pure curiosity, how can something feel more "persistent"? A world can feel more dynamic via your definition, but there is no scale of "persistent" there is only "persistent" and "not persistent".
You can use the word in several different contexts like you did to have it mean various different things, but ultimately is means something that is continuous. You could use the webster.com meaning of "to continue to exist especially past a usual, expected or normal time."
I think the meaning the way you were explaining will come from what you are currently in reference to...such as the stats for a team or the world in an online game...perhaps even the consumption of coke. It's all relative and can be used in many different contexts.
The words "persistent" and "dynamic" are two separate words. However, when used in context of video games, the term is "persistent world" and words "dynamic" and "static" are words describing that term. I didn't make this term up. Read this: www.journalism.wisc.edu/~mjchen/spring2007/david/doom.htm Pay especially close attention to this "A persistent world is influenced by the actions of the players that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those players, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that things are different than when he left." Persistent worlds feel more persistent when they are dynamic because the fact that the game always changes (EVE), emulate our world much closer then games with static worlds (WoW). Again, I'm not talking about the English language definition of the words "static," "dynamic" and "persistent." I'm talking about the term "persistent world" and how static and dynamic relate to it.
Ah. Now I understand. Thanks for taking time to explain that, Heartless!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Well that's just freakin magical... Heartless won the thread. Now what the hell are we supposed to do?
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Comments
Think of it as life in a game versus no life in a game.
When I load up, for example, Halo, the game world starts running. When I turn it off, the Halo "environment" stops running and nothing can happen in that "environment".
In a Persistent game, when you turn it off, the "environment" continues to be active and things can continue to happen in the "environment". Its a simple as that. Static versus Dynamic have nothing to do it. Whether something actually happens in the "environment" doesn't matter. The problem I think some of you are having is you're applying the broad definition of "persistent" in a static sense rather than a relative sense. Nothing, from a static perspective, is persistent in a virtual environment. Simply remove power from the source providing the virtual environment, and you've no longer got a persistent environment.
On the other hand, relative to an individual, something like an MMORPG is persistent as the MMORPG (as long as its running) continues to be an active environment in which things CAN (not necessarily will) happen regardless of the individual. If it is impossible for something to happen even when the individual is not interacting with the game (most single-player games) then it is not persistent in any sense of the word.
"Edit: look, I am well aware of the English meaning of the word. In my opinion the definition of "persistent" in context of games, implies change to the game's world while you're not there. The more drastic the change, the more persistent the game world feels."
I think you're honestly thinking of dynamic. Because what you've just said is basically what dynamic is. The more drastic the change, the more dynamic the world feels.
The game IS persistant. No matter what it feels like. It just is. It's like saying is their air or not? You can't see it, taste it, smell it ect ect, but it IS there. It's a fact. The same with Persistance. The world IS persistant no matter what it feels like.
However, people keep trying to add the word dynamic to the word persistant, and make them 1 definition. They're just not. They are two seperate words, with two different meanings. One can be related to the other, but they are not inherantly related.
The words "persistent" and "dynamic" are two separate words. However, when used in context of video games, the term is "persistent world" and words "dynamic" and "static" are words describing that term.
I didn't make this term up.
Read this:
www.journalism.wisc.edu/~mjchen/spring2007/david/doom.htm
Pay especially close attention to this "A persistent world is influenced by the actions of the players that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those players, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that things are different than when he left."
Persistent worlds feel more persistent when they are dynamic because the fact that the game always changes (EVE), emulate our world much closer then games with static worlds (WoW).
Again, I'm not talking about the English language definition of the words "static," "dynamic" and "persistent." I'm talking about the term "persistent world" and how static and dynamic relate to it.
The words "persistent" and "dynamic" are two separate words. However, when used in context of video games, the term is "persistent world" and words "dynamic" and "static" are words describing that term.
I didn't make this term up.
Read this:
www.journalism.wisc.edu/~mjchen/spring2007/david/doom.htm
Pay especially close attention to this "A persistent world is influenced by the actions of the players that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those players, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that things are different than when he left."
Persistent worlds feel more persistent when they are dynamic because the fact that the game always changes (EVE), emulate our world much closer then games with static worlds (WoW).
Again, I'm not talking about the English language definition of the words "static," "dynamic" and "persistent." I'm talking about the term "persistent world" and how static and dynamic relate to it.
The quote you offer is a description of a persistent world, not a definition of one. Let me re-word that quote in a way that says the exact same thing, but without any "dynamic" implications.
"A persistent world is influenced by the actions of an individual that are in the game at any particular point in time, even capable of being altered by those individuals, such that when our example player reconnects to the game world, he may find that nothing is different than when he left."
Still true because a persistent world, even by the description you quoted, doesn't have to change. Merely has the capability of changing. At no point does a "persistent world" have to change an inch for it to gain its "persistent" qualification. It merely has to have the capability.
Out of pure curiosity, how can something feel more "persistent"? A world can feel more dynamic via your definition, but there is no scale of "persistent" there is only "persistent" and "not persistent".
You can use the word in several different contexts like you did to have it mean various different things, but ultimately is means something that is continuous. You could use the webster.com meaning of "to continue to exist especially past a usual, expected or normal time."
I think the meaning the way you were explaining will come from what you are currently in reference to...such as the stats for a team or the world in an online game...perhaps even the consumption of coke. It's all relative and can be used in many different contexts.
-Thafireball
Look, this is really a pointless discussion.
You: "A Persistent world continues even when your character is not present."
Me: "Yes"
Me: "A persistent world feels more 'real' (for the lack of better word), when it's dynamic."
You: "Dynamic and persistent are different words."
Me: "Dynamic and static are used to describe the term 'persistent world' therefore in this context they are related."
You: "The game world doesn't have to be dynamic to be persistent."
I'm trying to understand where the miscommunication is occurring. Maybe I've had a few too many?
Ah. Now I understand. Thanks for taking time to explain that, Heartless!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
No problem, man. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining myself maybe that's why this whole confusion lasted so long.
Well that's just freakin magical... Heartless won the thread. Now what the hell are we supposed to do?
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-