Well just can not help it. I told you so! It was a few months ago I said that Free Realms would be a huge hit for SOE and help position them at the forfront of mmos again. I remember people here laughing at me and going into all the Smedly crap. Well with over 4,000,000 register players already my prediction was correct. With DC Universe and The Agency coming out, both of which look great I think all the SOE "haters" need a new job. You have been working hard to kill SOE since SWG-NGE and you did not even put a dent in them. Free Realms is a great game for all ages and experience levels. SOE made a bold move to go more to RMT in games and it looks like it will pay off, get use to it, it also looks like it is the future of mmos. Congrats SOE with Free Realms you deserve it. Your hard works shows in this game. Now make me a Free Realms for adults.
Registered players mean crap. Hell, I'm registered. You know how many times I've logged in? At the 1 million, 2 million, and 3 million mark. Just to get the free crap. That's 3 times. Haven't spent a dime and haven't ever left the first area.
Ya people read into what they want and obviously SOE wants positive press. I'm not saying anything bad about Free Realms.
There is a difference between "registered user" and "user paying for something".
I'd be more than happy for SOE if most of those 4 million accounts were paying something. Yet when I consider they just announced reducing their full time work force by 5% (SOE specific).. I would tend to think most of those accounts are not paying.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
Daffodil11 actually posted proof of her arguments with the screenshot of the server list, so I would tend to side with her. Evidence and proof goes a long way in proving a point.
I'm with the crowd who is saying registered users doesnt mean much. MMORPG.com has almost 1.1 million registered users, yet i dont see more then 500 online at once.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
didn't you hear? Hating microsoft is old news...its now cool to hate SOE!
umm welcome to 4 years ago ....
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Perhaps it seemed that way to you because you were looking for conflict? What I posted was as neutral as you can get with regard to presenting facts about SOE, and might have been an interesting factoid to those who hadn't yet heard about it, given the way SOE is trumpeting their success with Free Realms.
You're right about one thing though, captain obvious probably wasn't the descriptor for you. Dickhead might be a little closer to the mark.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yes they did and for good reason.
The OP was trying to imply that SOE had millions of people paying to play Free Realms. As opposed to registered "free accounts"...
Using that implication.. Free Realms would be making more money monthly than EVERY other MMO SOE has ever had combined. So yes it would be a bit shocking that anyone got laid off...
In the sense of reality no its not shocking. Your reply about the "real" current economic condition is correct. It just has nothing to do with the topic here. Tthis thread was started by a specific person, about a specific topic and a specific implication they made. The other responses were in response to the OP and the implication they made.
I'm not sure why you don't somehow quite grasp that....
*edited to add*
A free realms subscription is around $5 if you buy nothing else. 4 million X $5 = 20 million a month.
EQ1 at its peak had around 450,000 subscribers... which at basicly $15 each would be: 6,750,000 a month.
Which is the basis of the OP implication versus why lay anyone off at the moment.
The main issue being your response was outside of the Original Post because you didn't like what someone said.. as opposed to seeing it as a reply to something you apparantly were ok with (even tho it made no sense).
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
Apparently not on this topic...lol. I've addressed your concerns and why I responded harshly...and perhaps unjustifiably. However...I will state that not all recession layoffs are because the company is suffering...some (probably more than we know) are to create cash buffers to ensure the big wig's end of the year bonuses...while others are preemptive ...just in case money gets tight. At least ..I've experienced these two reasons personally...I wasn't the one getting canned at the time..so I guess the stupid management felt they could tell me their dirty secrets..lol. No risk of "going postal"
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yes they did and for good reason.
The OP was trying to imply that SOE had millions of people paying to play Free Realms. As opposed to registered "free accounts"...
Using that implication.. Free Realms would be making more money monthly than EVERY other MMO SOE has ever had combined. So yes it would be a bit shocking that anyone got laid off...
In the sense of reality no its not shocking. Your reply about the "real" current economic condition is correct. It just has nothing to do with the topic here. Tthis thread was started by a specific person, about a specific topic and a specific implication they made. The other responses were in response to the OP and the implication they made.
I'm not sure why you don't somehow quite grasp that....
*edited to add*
A free realms subscription is around $5 if you buy nothing else. 4 million X $5 = 20 million a month.
EQ1 at its peak had around 450,000 subscribers... which at basicly $15 each would be: 6,750,000 a month.
Which is the basis of the OP implication versus why lay anyone off at the moment.
The main issue being your response was outside of the Original Post because you didn't like what someone said.. as opposed to seeing it as a reply to something you apparantly were ok with (even tho it made no sense).
I understand what you are saying. It is possible , however. for a corporation to be profitable and experience layoffs. It is during recessions...(the perfect cover and lessens the "bad corporation" stigma of layoffs).....where they generally trim the fat...to start...in anticipation of growth and maximized profit.(not saying that is what SOE is doing..but they have a few older and perhaps tired franchises and probably many redundant jobs they could eliminate or merge.)
Anyway...I admit going a bit off topic..but i did see it as pertinent to the OP and subsequent replies. I also admit to being frustrated at doomspeak...but i guess that should be expected by now and naive of me to hope otherwise. I apologize to anyone I've pissed off. I meant no offense though the tone of my written replies indicates otherwise..again I must admit it has been a shitty week for me and that's nobodys problem but my own.
Game on! ...(meant more in the sense of 'Anchor's away" to all gamers and not a threatening challenge ...just making sure my tone is not ill percieved)
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
yeah this simply is not true. Companies overtime grow in employees shall we say "outwards" they take on jobs and start new projects and so they hire people. Then the jobs are over or a department closes due to lack of need . Redundant positions kinda need to be weeded out every so often.
A great time to do this is well when there is a recession mind you in my time on this earth I have never found a situation or time that i can remember off of the top of my head where there isn't some kind of recession.
In any event loosing money is only one of several reasons to get rid of employees. We are talking about a company that puts money into developing new things as they do so the employee list grows temporarily. Some pepel are hired on contract but others are given jobs with no contract, but I hate to say it the only situation where I can think of where people are kept on when there is no work for them to do is in the goverment lol. (okay that was part joke, but its true) Eventually even then they start letting people go.
I still dont see how handing out pink slips has much to do with any company being poor. Its only one cause, but not the only one, but there is this need to state worste case scenario on message boards like this and leave out all other possibilities. That doesn't mean that the more likely posibilies exist other then a company which is pouring huge amounts of cash into television ads and other things in this case. I dont see them not having cash I kinda see the opposite and i see growth. For awhile this company stagnated I dont see that as being the case right now and so its kinda unlikely the reason for them letting people go has to do with no money and more likely that they simply were not needed anymore right now.
Originally posted by ummax I dont see them not having cash I kinda see the opposite and i see growth. For awhile this company stagnated I dont see that as being the case right now and so its kinda unlikely the reason for them letting people go has to do with no money and more likely that they simply were not needed anymore right now.
Why would they not be needed anymore?
Out of all of their mmos, there are a few that are very small teams that are not really affected by this and the rest of their games are still in production/development. SWG/VG/PS/EQOA combined don't even make up the number of people layed off and you couldn't cut there withou almost eliminating the team. EQ/EQ2 are received expansions so no overlap there. DCU/Agency and the rumored flagship game all need their own teams, so not there either.
There are 28 positions listed on the career page right now, with about a dozen of those being senior/lead positions. They obviously have need of more employees by their own actions.
It might be possible these 41 cuts are somehow to overlapping positions or is it more likely they are a result of their steady decline in customers base for all their mmos and the lack of performance from free realms which only has 1 decently populated server. You talk about this in some tone of class room theory about a company that makes imaginary widgets and ignore the the specifics about this company that make its situation what it is.
The closing of the matrix online, thrusting RMT everywhere they can, getting restructured under another division of the company, layoffs and various other things all suggest things are not going so well.
Where is the growth and why would a company cut staff when they are growing as you think they are? Why would the most profitable division of sony cut staff?
Originally posted by ummax I dont see them not having cash I kinda see the opposite and i see growth. For awhile this company stagnated I dont see that as being the case right now and so its kinda unlikely the reason for them letting people go has to do with no money and more likely that they simply were not needed anymore right now.
Why would they not be needed anymore?
Out of all of their mmos, there are a few that are very small teams that are not really affected by this and the rest of their games are still in production/development. SWG/VG/PS/EQOA combined don't even make up the number of people layed off and you couldn't cut there withou almost eliminating the team. EQ/EQ2 are received expansions so no overlap there. DCU/Agency and the rumored flagship game all need their own teams, so not there either.
There are 28 positions listed on the career page right now, with about a dozen of those being senior/lead positions. They obviously have need of more employees by their own actions.
It might be possible these 41 cuts are somehow to overlapping positions or is it more likely they are a result of their steady decline in customers base for all their mmos and the lack of performance from free realms which only has 1 decently populated server. You talk about this in some tone of class room theory about a company that makes imaginary widgets and ignore the the specifics about this company that make its situation what it is.
The closing of the matrix online, thrusting RMT everywhere they can, getting restructured under another division of the company, layoffs and various other things all suggest things are not going so well.
Where is the growth and why would a company cut staff when they are growing as you think they are? Why would the most profitable division of sony cut staff?
why would they keep people they dont need anymore?
why would they keep the staff of matrix around when they close the game down?
why would they keep staff for planetside around when they are sunsetting the game?
They started new projects and shuffled some people around and had some to spare? you think they should pay people to do nothing?
dont be ridiculous.
They are in the business of making money . "That's business"
The matrix staff was 1 person and he was moved from the project long before it the closure was announced. Planetside doesn't even have a full time staff member. Even if you want to obfuscate things in this manner, that is 2 people. Where did the other 39 come from?
You have to ask yourself what is the reason for shuffling people around if that is what you think is happening? It isn't like soe kept 41 useless people employed for no reason. These new projects have been in the works for years, so there wasn't some sudden need to reshuffle people like you speculate. Their other games are running the same course they have been for years. A slapped together expansion, some rmt loot cards and normal updates. Nothing needing reorganization there.
Like you said they are in business to make money, so why do they not need these people now when nothing really changed?
The only way your theory makes sense is if you ignore the specifics about soes performance and analyze it like some generic corporation in a classroom setting. Soe isn't making widgets and selling it to theoritical people. They are making mmos and those mmos have been declining for some time now. Free realms is struggling to fill up one server so it isn't raking in money as people might think it is.
You want to ignore everything about what is happening and at the same time claim they are growing despite layoffs? I mean your bank guy told you soe was the most profitable division of sony and the main reason the stock is holding its value, so why would they need to lay off people?
You want to ignore everything about what is happening and at the same time claim they are growing despite layoffs? I mean your bank guy told you soe was the most profitable division of sony and the main reason the stock is holding its value, so why would they need to lay off people?
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
...... continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
You want to ignore everything about what is happening and at the same time claim they are growing despite layoffs? I mean your bank guy told you soe was the most profitable division of sony and the main reason the stock is holding its value, so why would they need to lay off people?
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
......
continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
okay the bbml thingy goes nuts in my browser so here is the rest
fact - they are developing how many games?
are they growing? who knows what is a myth those is that they are shrinking
are they loosing money? you say yes (another guess on your part?)
they are laying off people because they are poor and loosing money according to you is this a face? Nope another guess on your part
All indications point to growth
they have purchase pox nora
they have just released a massive kids mmorpg, have now started a comic book to sell in stores and are selling a paper tcg card set. They had a ton of commericals on the disney channel
they are developing and getting close to releasing - DC online and the Agency.
Is it just a little bit possible that they overhired? what seeing as they had an ad up just awhile back to hire people for "a flagship product"?
If your version of "truth" actualy true? nope its just a doom and gloom approach. Fact is they seem to have enough money to create and produce not 1 not 2 but 3 new mmorpgs , market on the TV disney channel and publish a comic book and ship it for sale in the UK even. Is that the sign of a company in trouble? nope.
I'm not sure I said SOE is losing money, but I think I can safely say they are not put back into a leadership position with the release of free realms as the original poster thinks they are. I think it is also true that they have lost a massive amount of market share over the last several years and I doubt it can be even imagined that they have not. This isn't the first time they have cut/lost staff, but it is the first time they have since their restructuring under SCE division.
As to your facts:
Yes they are developing several games. That would indicate future growth if they do well. However, they are still posting job opening for various levels of developers for those games. From entry to senior. Time will tell if this means growth or not.
They also bought pax nora. Remember they also bought the matrix and vanguard, so lets see how their newest purchase does for them? It does suggest growth though, which the virtual/rmt card aspect of their division seems to be the only growth area.
They had television commercials on cartoon network and disney (haven't seen one in a while though). Ok, does that prove they are making money or spending money. That shows they are spending. Looking at free realms and seeing 1-2 popular servers, and 8 dead servers leads me to believe they are not seeing a good return on that investment. I'm sure they spent a fair amount of money on free realms and its release, but 2 servers is not growth for a company at this level.
Having things for sale in a store doesn't mean making money. It looks like they are diversifying. Growth or trying to find a market they can succeed in. Who knows?
The agency and dcu are not out yet, so no growth there. When they release we can look at how those do.
Cutting staff to eliminate cost suggests that yes, they are losing money or not making enough to pull their weight. That is what staff cuts mean. Companies don't lay people off when they are growing and are actualy in need of more staff (as suggested by their job posting page).
I'm sorry if you feel I am all doom and gloom, but you will not find me trying to twist job layoffs into some message of growth for a company. Nor will you find me fabricating stories about stock tips from a bank to make my position look favorable. Sorry, but that story discredits you beyond imagination.
The code here can be frustrating at times. That I fully agree on.
You want to ignore everything about what is happening and at the same time claim they are growing despite layoffs? I mean your bank guy told you soe was the most profitable division of sony and the main reason the stock is holding its value, so why would they need to lay off people?
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
......
continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
okay the bbml thingy goes nuts in my browser so here is the rest
fact - they are developing how many games?
are they growing? who knows what is a myth those is that they are shrinking
are they loosing money? you say yes (another guess on your part?)
they are laying off people because they are poor and loosing money according to you is this a face? Nope another guess on your part
All indications point to growth
they have purchase pox nora
they have just released a massive kids mmorpg, have now started a comic book to sell in stores and are selling a paper tcg card set. They had a ton of commericals on the disney channel
they are developing and getting close to releasing - DC online and the Agency.
Is it just a little bit possible that they overhired? what seeing as they had an ad up just awhile back to hire people for "a flagship product"?
If your version of "truth" actualy true? nope its just a doom and gloom approach. Fact is they seem to have enough money to create and produce not 1 not 2 but 3 new mmorpgs , market on the TV disney channel and publish a comic book and ship it for sale in the UK even. Is that the sign of a company in trouble? nope.
This was essentially what i was getting at...but my post was admittedly jaded by the pre conception that people were failing SOE out of embitterment...which is the usual on this forum. Growth....ask any economist and they will tell you that recessions are a prime time for business expansion and growth...of course for those that are capable. Unfortunately this may or may not involve restructuring and layoffs.
Free realms has 2 servers with any decent population.
Now maybe soe is growing in other areas and in some twisted way layoffs do somehow equate to a growing company in some theoretical way economists talk about faceless examples, but would you base an "I told you so" thread on that? Would you call soe a leader in the mmo industry based on the performance of any of the above games? Would you claim that soe is the most profitable division of sony and they are keeping the stock value as high as it is?
Call it doom and gloom, embitterment or any other thing you would like, at least it is acknowledging the actual state of their games and glossing over the specifics with classroom theories.
I wouldn't say little kids, just more childish/family friendly. You comment is very sad and should be removed because I know you were trying to be nasty and not be serious with that question.
Comments
messed up the edit...nvm
Registered players mean crap. Hell, I'm registered. You know how many times I've logged in? At the 1 million, 2 million, and 3 million mark. Just to get the free crap. That's 3 times. Haven't spent a dime and haven't ever left the first area.
Ya people read into what they want and obviously SOE wants positive press. I'm not saying anything bad about Free Realms.
There is a difference between "registered user" and "user paying for something".
I'd be more than happy for SOE if most of those 4 million accounts were paying something. Yet when I consider they just announced reducing their full time work force by 5% (SOE specific).. I would tend to think most of those accounts are not paying.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
I'm with the crowd who is saying registered users doesnt mean much. MMORPG.com has almost 1.1 million registered users, yet i dont see more then 500 online at once.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
umm welcome to 4 years ago ....
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Perhaps it seemed that way to you because you were looking for conflict? What I posted was as neutral as you can get with regard to presenting facts about SOE, and might have been an interesting factoid to those who hadn't yet heard about it, given the way SOE is trumpeting their success with Free Realms.
You're right about one thing though, captain obvious probably wasn't the descriptor for you. Dickhead might be a little closer to the mark.
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yes they did and for good reason.
The OP was trying to imply that SOE had millions of people paying to play Free Realms. As opposed to registered "free accounts"...
Using that implication.. Free Realms would be making more money monthly than EVERY other MMO SOE has ever had combined. So yes it would be a bit shocking that anyone got laid off...
In the sense of reality no its not shocking. Your reply about the "real" current economic condition is correct. It just has nothing to do with the topic here. Tthis thread was started by a specific person, about a specific topic and a specific implication they made. The other responses were in response to the OP and the implication they made.
I'm not sure why you don't somehow quite grasp that....
*edited to add*
A free realms subscription is around $5 if you buy nothing else. 4 million X $5 = 20 million a month.
EQ1 at its peak had around 450,000 subscribers... which at basicly $15 each would be: 6,750,000 a month.
Which is the basis of the OP implication versus why lay anyone off at the moment.
The main issue being your response was outside of the Original Post because you didn't like what someone said.. as opposed to seeing it as a reply to something you apparantly were ok with (even tho it made no sense).
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
Apparently not on this topic...lol. I've addressed your concerns and why I responded harshly...and perhaps unjustifiably. However...I will state that not all recession layoffs are because the company is suffering...some (probably more than we know) are to create cash buffers to ensure the big wig's end of the year bonuses...while others are preemptive ...just in case money gets tight. At least ..I've experienced these two reasons personally...I wasn't the one getting canned at the time..so I guess the stupid management felt they could tell me their dirty secrets..lol. No risk of "going postal"
Yeah...SOE and hundreds of thousands of other companies. Read a newspaper. It's called a recession. You can't single out one turd in a world of shit and expect it to support your argument. If most everything else was a bountiful bouquet and SOE one of the few weeds..then fine...but businesses , in general, are all suffering these days.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm well aware of the recession, seeing as how I've had to let a couple of my own employees go over the past couple of months. Sorry if my pointing out an interesting factoid distresses you.
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Yes they did and for good reason.
The OP was trying to imply that SOE had millions of people paying to play Free Realms. As opposed to registered "free accounts"...
Using that implication.. Free Realms would be making more money monthly than EVERY other MMO SOE has ever had combined. So yes it would be a bit shocking that anyone got laid off...
In the sense of reality no its not shocking. Your reply about the "real" current economic condition is correct. It just has nothing to do with the topic here. Tthis thread was started by a specific person, about a specific topic and a specific implication they made. The other responses were in response to the OP and the implication they made.
I'm not sure why you don't somehow quite grasp that....
*edited to add*
A free realms subscription is around $5 if you buy nothing else. 4 million X $5 = 20 million a month.
EQ1 at its peak had around 450,000 subscribers... which at basicly $15 each would be: 6,750,000 a month.
Which is the basis of the OP implication versus why lay anyone off at the moment.
The main issue being your response was outside of the Original Post because you didn't like what someone said.. as opposed to seeing it as a reply to something you apparantly were ok with (even tho it made no sense).
I understand what you are saying. It is possible , however. for a corporation to be profitable and experience layoffs. It is during recessions...(the perfect cover and lessens the "bad corporation" stigma of layoffs).....where they generally trim the fat...to start...in anticipation of growth and maximized profit.(not saying that is what SOE is doing..but they have a few older and perhaps tired franchises and probably many redundant jobs they could eliminate or merge.)
Anyway...I admit going a bit off topic..but i did see it as pertinent to the OP and subsequent replies. I also admit to being frustrated at doomspeak...but i guess that should be expected by now and naive of me to hope otherwise. I apologize to anyone I've pissed off. I meant no offense though the tone of my written replies indicates otherwise..again I must admit it has been a shitty week for me and that's nobodys problem but my own.
Game on! ...(meant more in the sense of 'Anchor's away" to all gamers and not a threatening challenge ...just making sure my tone is not ill percieved)
..You're welcome...I would find it an interesting factoid if a hundreds of other companies were not also laying off personal. ..or if it didn't seem like another "SOE is losing money left and right simply because they are SOE " post based off the fact that their employees are losing their jobs .....in a recession..shocking. ..and you call me Captain Obvious.
Is it possible for you to type a simple sentence without sounding like you're on the warpath 24/7?
The poster posted something related to SOE in a completely neutral fashion, then you go on the attack accusing he/she of singling out SOE to "support their argument." What argument exactly? The fact that they aren't rolling in cash? Then yes, the poster was indeed correct. If they were rolling in cash, regardless of the recession or not, they wouldn't be laying off people.
yeah this simply is not true. Companies overtime grow in employees shall we say "outwards" they take on jobs and start new projects and so they hire people. Then the jobs are over or a department closes due to lack of need . Redundant positions kinda need to be weeded out every so often.
A great time to do this is well when there is a recession mind you in my time on this earth I have never found a situation or time that i can remember off of the top of my head where there isn't some kind of recession.
In any event loosing money is only one of several reasons to get rid of employees. We are talking about a company that puts money into developing new things as they do so the employee list grows temporarily. Some pepel are hired on contract but others are given jobs with no contract, but I hate to say it the only situation where I can think of where people are kept on when there is no work for them to do is in the goverment lol. (okay that was part joke, but its true) Eventually even then they start letting people go.
I still dont see how handing out pink slips has much to do with any company being poor. Its only one cause, but not the only one, but there is this need to state worste case scenario on message boards like this and leave out all other possibilities. That doesn't mean that the more likely posibilies exist other then a company which is pouring huge amounts of cash into television ads and other things in this case. I dont see them not having cash I kinda see the opposite and i see growth. For awhile this company stagnated I dont see that as being the case right now and so its kinda unlikely the reason for them letting people go has to do with no money and more likely that they simply were not needed anymore right now.
Why would they not be needed anymore?
Out of all of their mmos, there are a few that are very small teams that are not really affected by this and the rest of their games are still in production/development. SWG/VG/PS/EQOA combined don't even make up the number of people layed off and you couldn't cut there withou almost eliminating the team. EQ/EQ2 are received expansions so no overlap there. DCU/Agency and the rumored flagship game all need their own teams, so not there either.
There are 28 positions listed on the career page right now, with about a dozen of those being senior/lead positions. They obviously have need of more employees by their own actions.
It might be possible these 41 cuts are somehow to overlapping positions or is it more likely they are a result of their steady decline in customers base for all their mmos and the lack of performance from free realms which only has 1 decently populated server. You talk about this in some tone of class room theory about a company that makes imaginary widgets and ignore the the specifics about this company that make its situation what it is.
The closing of the matrix online, thrusting RMT everywhere they can, getting restructured under another division of the company, layoffs and various other things all suggest things are not going so well.
Where is the growth and why would a company cut staff when they are growing as you think they are? Why would the most profitable division of sony cut staff?
Why would they not be needed anymore?
Out of all of their mmos, there are a few that are very small teams that are not really affected by this and the rest of their games are still in production/development. SWG/VG/PS/EQOA combined don't even make up the number of people layed off and you couldn't cut there withou almost eliminating the team. EQ/EQ2 are received expansions so no overlap there. DCU/Agency and the rumored flagship game all need their own teams, so not there either.
There are 28 positions listed on the career page right now, with about a dozen of those being senior/lead positions. They obviously have need of more employees by their own actions.
It might be possible these 41 cuts are somehow to overlapping positions or is it more likely they are a result of their steady decline in customers base for all their mmos and the lack of performance from free realms which only has 1 decently populated server. You talk about this in some tone of class room theory about a company that makes imaginary widgets and ignore the the specifics about this company that make its situation what it is.
The closing of the matrix online, thrusting RMT everywhere they can, getting restructured under another division of the company, layoffs and various other things all suggest things are not going so well.
Where is the growth and why would a company cut staff when they are growing as you think they are? Why would the most profitable division of sony cut staff?
why would they keep people they dont need anymore?
why would they keep the staff of matrix around when they close the game down?
why would they keep staff for planetside around when they are sunsetting the game?
They started new projects and shuffled some people around and had some to spare? you think they should pay people to do nothing?
dont be ridiculous.
They are in the business of making money . "That's business"
/shrug
The matrix staff was 1 person and he was moved from the project long before it the closure was announced. Planetside doesn't even have a full time staff member. Even if you want to obfuscate things in this manner, that is 2 people. Where did the other 39 come from?
You have to ask yourself what is the reason for shuffling people around if that is what you think is happening? It isn't like soe kept 41 useless people employed for no reason. These new projects have been in the works for years, so there wasn't some sudden need to reshuffle people like you speculate. Their other games are running the same course they have been for years. A slapped together expansion, some rmt loot cards and normal updates. Nothing needing reorganization there.
Like you said they are in business to make money, so why do they not need these people now when nothing really changed?
The only way your theory makes sense is if you ignore the specifics about soes performance and analyze it like some generic corporation in a classroom setting. Soe isn't making widgets and selling it to theoritical people. They are making mmos and those mmos have been declining for some time now. Free realms is struggling to fill up one server so it isn't raking in money as people might think it is.
You want to ignore everything about what is happening and at the same time claim they are growing despite layoffs? I mean your bank guy told you soe was the most profitable division of sony and the main reason the stock is holding its value, so why would they need to lay off people?
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
......
continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
......
continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
okay the bbml thingy goes nuts in my browser so here is the rest
fact - they are developing how many games?
are they growing? who knows what is a myth those is that they are shrinking
are they loosing money? you say yes (another guess on your part?)
they are laying off people because they are poor and loosing money according to you is this a face? Nope another guess on your part
All indications point to growth
they have purchase pox nora
they have just released a massive kids mmorpg, have now started a comic book to sell in stores and are selling a paper tcg card set. They had a ton of commericals on the disney channel
they are developing and getting close to releasing - DC online and the Agency.
Is it just a little bit possible that they overhired? what seeing as they had an ad up just awhile back to hire people for "a flagship product"?
If your version of "truth" actualy true? nope its just a doom and gloom approach. Fact is they seem to have enough money to create and produce not 1 not 2 but 3 new mmorpgs , market on the TV disney channel and publish a comic book and ship it for sale in the UK even. Is that the sign of a company in trouble? nope.
Well said ummax.
I'm not sure I said SOE is losing money, but I think I can safely say they are not put back into a leadership position with the release of free realms as the original poster thinks they are. I think it is also true that they have lost a massive amount of market share over the last several years and I doubt it can be even imagined that they have not. This isn't the first time they have cut/lost staff, but it is the first time they have since their restructuring under SCE division.
As to your facts:
Yes they are developing several games. That would indicate future growth if they do well. However, they are still posting job opening for various levels of developers for those games. From entry to senior. Time will tell if this means growth or not.
They also bought pax nora. Remember they also bought the matrix and vanguard, so lets see how their newest purchase does for them? It does suggest growth though, which the virtual/rmt card aspect of their division seems to be the only growth area.
They had television commercials on cartoon network and disney (haven't seen one in a while though). Ok, does that prove they are making money or spending money. That shows they are spending. Looking at free realms and seeing 1-2 popular servers, and 8 dead servers leads me to believe they are not seeing a good return on that investment. I'm sure they spent a fair amount of money on free realms and its release, but 2 servers is not growth for a company at this level.
Having things for sale in a store doesn't mean making money. It looks like they are diversifying. Growth or trying to find a market they can succeed in. Who knows?
The agency and dcu are not out yet, so no growth there. When they release we can look at how those do.
Cutting staff to eliminate cost suggests that yes, they are losing money or not making enough to pull their weight. That is what staff cuts mean. Companies don't lay people off when they are growing and are actualy in need of more staff (as suggested by their job posting page).
I'm sorry if you feel I am all doom and gloom, but you will not find me trying to twist job layoffs into some message of growth for a company. Nor will you find me fabricating stories about stock tips from a bank to make my position look favorable. Sorry, but that story discredits you beyond imagination.
The code here can be frustrating at times. That I fully agree on.
matrix was more then one person lol that's pretty funny though
Nope I'm not ignoring anything but I dont predict doom and gloom
fact -look for it yourself but recently they have been hiring for a "flag ship
......
continut post in a reply because this message boarda has just gone bonkers on me again
okay the bbml thingy goes nuts in my browser so here is the rest
fact - they are developing how many games?
are they growing? who knows what is a myth those is that they are shrinking
are they loosing money? you say yes (another guess on your part?)
they are laying off people because they are poor and loosing money according to you is this a face? Nope another guess on your part
All indications point to growth
they have purchase pox nora
they have just released a massive kids mmorpg, have now started a comic book to sell in stores and are selling a paper tcg card set. They had a ton of commericals on the disney channel
they are developing and getting close to releasing - DC online and the Agency.
Is it just a little bit possible that they overhired? what seeing as they had an ad up just awhile back to hire people for "a flagship product"?
If your version of "truth" actualy true? nope its just a doom and gloom approach. Fact is they seem to have enough money to create and produce not 1 not 2 but 3 new mmorpgs , market on the TV disney channel and publish a comic book and ship it for sale in the UK even. Is that the sign of a company in trouble? nope.
This was essentially what i was getting at...but my post was admittedly jaded by the pre conception that people were failing SOE out of embitterment...which is the usual on this forum. Growth....ask any economist and they will tell you that recessions are a prime time for business expansion and growth...of course for those that are capable. Unfortunately this may or may not involve restructuring and layoffs.
Which game would give you the impression that soe is growing?
Everquest, EQ2, SWG, Planetside, Vanguard, EQOA, Potbs, Matrix.
Free realms has 2 servers with any decent population.
Now maybe soe is growing in other areas and in some twisted way layoffs do somehow equate to a growing company in some theoretical way economists talk about faceless examples, but would you base an "I told you so" thread on that? Would you call soe a leader in the mmo industry based on the performance of any of the above games? Would you claim that soe is the most profitable division of sony and they are keeping the stock value as high as it is?
Call it doom and gloom, embitterment or any other thing you would like, at least it is acknowledging the actual state of their games and glossing over the specifics with classroom theories.
This game is for little kids. Why would any of you want to play it? Pedofiles maybe?
I wouldn't say little kids, just more childish/family friendly. You comment is very sad and should be removed because I know you were trying to be nasty and not be serious with that question.