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Let's put all the questions to rest about whether or not you should buy it.
Understand what the game is then make your own decision.
- This is a guild centric game. It's based around trying to achieve things as part of a group, from the PvP combat itself to the long term goals of city building and economic development. You will not get very far going it alone.
- There is no set course mapped out for what you should do in the game, either in PvP or PvE. You decide what your goals are and pursue them as you desire. It's an open world to explore with a lot of dynamic player driven conflict where you are crafting your own story as you play it, your own drama through war, politics, and economics.
- This is not a theme park game where you are led through a series of hand holding quests from start to finish. That does not mean there is no PvE content, though. The PvE is mainly exploration based, where you set off to find and discover new and interesting sights and enemy encampments, or occasionally something special like a dragon. There is a sense of adventuring out to do and see new things, there just aren't any NPCs to talk with or quests given out to drive things.
- PvP requires tactics, teamwork, and twitch reflex skill. Moreso then any other MMORPG you've probably played.
-There is a huge strategic element to the game based around economics and infrastructure, which is also why it is so guild centric.
-The system of full loot, mount loss, equipment degredation, and guild building destruction adds a lot of personal and collective risk to the game, but this risk has a fundamental impact on the very nature of the game's PvP that greatly enhances the need for teamwork and strategy. The constant degredation of equipment and loss of gear also is essential to driving the economics behind the game, and the economics are a big part of what drives PvP. People play and fight differently in a world where death and destruction mean something. Your adrenaline will probably pump in this game in a way no other game has made it before because of the risk and reward involved. You will not encounter such feelings in other PvP games where everyone is basically safe and the only thing that ever really gets hurt is pride.
-Skilling up your character is an ever ongoing process that you will probably always be involved in because there will always be something to train up. If you are intent on maxing out stuff as fast as possible it can be a big boring grind, but if you just play the game and let the skills level up naturally then you'll find that raw skill level is not that important so long as you're working with friends (both in PvE and PvP). In that sense the skill system is only as much as a grind as you make it. Skills are not the end all and be all in this game. A relatively new player can still be a useful addition to a team of veterans. Skills aren't unimportant, but it's more accurate to say that skills are just one facet of an equation that determines victory. Tactics and teamwork play a big role. Twitch skills play a role. Equipment plays a big role, and everyone has the ability to use the same equipment (it's just a matter of what you are willing to risk because the best equipment takes much more time, resources, and effort to acquire). The bottom line is that skills can give you a significant edge if backed up by the other facets, but skils alone aren't a guarantee of anything in this game.
- Harvesting is a big grind. There's no skill involved aside from learning how to avoid death, and all you can do is sit there hitting on trees all day while you watch TV, I wouldn't say other MMORPGs exactly have interesting harvesting, but the difference with darkfall is that harvesting is a huge part of the game. While theorhetically possible to not harvest (there are smaller guilds that live entirely off PvE gains and PvP kills to fuel their need for equipment, which in turns fuels their PvP), you're going to need to do a ton of harvesting if you want to craft and your guild is going to need to do a ton of harvesting to get a big city. Harvesting is central to the game's economy and the economy is central to the dynamics driving PvP, so if you're commmited to a guild you may find yourself spending days grinding out resources, broken up occasionally by PvE or PvP content to keep things interesting. The upside is that a beginning harvester's contributions to a guild are still very significant, so you can choose to just let harvesting skill up as it skills and focus on getting the materials you need. For those who don't want to grind resources the only option is to take the gold earned from PvE/PvP and buy resources or buy crafted goods, but it is an option some pursue.
-It's possible to focus on harvesting and crafting and just make a lot of gold that way. You can be a huge asset to your guild without every picking up a weapon. So in that sense it's like UO where crafting itself can be a powerful and viable path all on it's own; But personally I see crafting and harvesting as a means to an end, the fueling of PvP (but again I can't really say other MMORPGs are different in that respect because crafting is usually just a means to a PvE end).
- This is a long term game that requires a commitment. You get as much out of it as you put in. This is not a casual game. It won't play itself for you. But it also has the potential to be one of the most satisfying MMO experiences you've ever had.
-The graphics are not going to win any awards, but they are also not anything as bad as they are often characterized by haters. The graphics are adequate, and in many cases very nice.
-Exploits/cheats have not been a been serious problem on the NA1 server as they have cracked down hard from the start, learning from their EU1 experience. There will always be some floating around in a game like this, as there always is in any competitive online game, but if they can keep it tamped down to a very small group then it shouldn't impact your play experience much at all.
Comments
It's a pretty good sum, albeit very subjective at times and containing the usual fallacies of the MMO world, present in words such as "themepark", "haters", "handholding", etc. If you manage to let these go, your summary would benefit from it. Not all people criticizing the game want it to burn down in flames, you know? Good criticism helps the game much more than blind faith. Any smart person should be able to know one from the other.
Those words are all accurate descriptions where used.
Nice post, thank you for an objective view on DF. This actually answer some of my questions about the game, even though I wasn't really planning on playing it , it is just not my cup of tea.
Good write up, one of the most balanced I've read w/o exaggeration and hyperbole.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not sure why you would say that. In order to be successful in combat you have to make good tactical decisions, like when to break off and heal or use archery or magic or micro-manage your stamina or mana. There are a select few who manage to play the lone-wolf assassion or theif very successfully in Darkfall. I agree though it's a straightforward, no-nonsense summary of the game.
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
When I have played it I havent really seen any being used. I guess its a matter who has seen or done what. The people i encountered was pretty much whack a mole.
When I watch the videoes of the combat, that's exactly the thought that comes into my head.
Then you didn't watch good examples of real combat, or you don't have enough experience with the game to recognize the tactics and teamwork being utilized.
You won't kill anyone decent if the depth of your tactics is to spam attack and aim in their general direction.
If you don't think skill and tactics is required in darkfall to beat more skilled people then your character is still basic.
I recently quit WoW to try this game after waiting for the N.A. release. I can definitely say it was worth it, and I can also say that the O.P. description is exactly right about everything. Something else that surprised me was that the game is NOT full of gankers. There are some but the majority are just regular players. Most people have been quite helpful.
Eve is like this too... except your way of putting it makes it sound even more boring than eve... wtf? :S
Wow, now that is an oxymoron.
How the hell can you have enough skill and tactics to beat someone that is more skilled then you? That is total obsfucation spin at it's best and completely obsequious sycophantic hyperbole.
Outstanding post.
I agree with the OP on everything except the part about the tactical management of battles. %'s prove out that most of the DF battles happen between 4-5 friends and 1 maybe 2 enemies at which case its a simple minded button mashing fest. Yes in larger scale battles against foes using tactic's with result in a more tactical battle but it it not the norm.
PVE is also very substandard.
That being said the game is OK. I played for 3 months In the end it was mind-numbingly redundant 80% of the time.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
na eve can be pretty boring gate jumping ftl
true lets hope av keeps improving the game
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
When I have played it I havent really seen any being used. I guess its a matter who has seen or done what. The people i encountered was pretty much whack a mole.
Like I said, just because you haven't learned the more subtle aspects of combat, and don't associate with people who know how to do anything else, doesn't mean it isn't out there.
Teamwork and tactics are what allows my guild to take on an enemy twice their size, without having superior equipment or levels.
It certainly is not a whack a mole game when you are being chased by an enemy an horseback, but your team formulates a plan to lure them away from the safety of their keep, up a hill, and then positions themselves behind cover with bows ready to attack them once they get near, slaughtering their mounts and then hopping on your own to finish them off. That's just one example of an endless variety of things that happen everyday for us.
Tactics in a game is not defined by how many buttons you have to press to attack; Tactics is about using things other than your weapons to gain a significant advantage over the enemy; like superior teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion, etc. Things which don't normally play any role at all in MMO PvP, but are more commonly found in tactical FPS games.
There's also a whole other strategic layer to the game; The economics of attritional war, raiding the enemy's harvesters, setting up engagements to kill off their soldiers so they lose a lot of equipment, raidng to sack their buildings, forming strategic alliances, making morale destroying moves to help drive people out of the guild or undermine their alliances. War in darkfall is a strategic process, not a simple siege.
As someone who has played WW2OL for years (which as a realistic war simulator on an MMO scale, is completely unrivaled in it's level of tactics and teamwork on top of it's strategic layer), I can attest to the fact that there exists in darkfall a very high level of tactics and strategy to the game - Far more than I've ever seen in the pvP of any other MMORPG.
It WW2OL it may only take one button to fire your rifle, but in a theorhetical battle between nothing but rifleman that doesn't mean the batlle will play out like that that carnival game where you shoot BBs at targets that pop up. To think such a thing is to simply be ignorant of all the tactics and teamwork that such a game is really capable of allowing.
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
When I have played it I havent really seen any being used. I guess its a matter who has seen or done what. The people i encountered was pretty much whack a mole.
Like I said, just because you haven't learned the more subtle aspects of combat, and don't associate with people who know how to do anything else, doesn't mean it isn't out there.
Teamwork and tactics are what allows my guild to take on an enemy twice their size, without having superior equipment or levels.
It certainly is not a whack a mole game when you are being chased by an enemy an horseback, but your team formulates a plan to lure them away from the safety of their keep, up a hill, and then positions themselves behind cover with bows ready to attack them once they get near, slaughtering their mounts and then hopping on your own to finish them off. That's just one example of an endless variety of things that happen everyday for us.
Tactics in a game is not defined by how many buttons you have to press to attack; Tactics is about using things other than your weapons to gain a significant advantage over the enemy; like superior teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion, etc. Things which don't normally play any role at all in MMO PvP, but are more commonly found in tactical FPS games.
There's also a whole other strategic layer to the game; The economics of attritional war, raiding the enemy's harvesters, setting up engagements to kill off their soldiers so they lose a lot of equipment, raidng to sack their buildings, forming strategic alliances, making morale destroying moves to help drive people out of the guild or undermine their alliances. War in darkfall is a strategic process, not a simple siege.
As someone who has played WW2OL for years (which as a realistic war simulator on an MMO scale, is completely unrivaled in it's level of tactics and teamwork on top of it's strategic layer), I can attest to the fact that there exists in darkfall a very high level of tactics and strategy to the game - Far more than I've ever seen in the pvP of any other MMORPG.
It WW2OL it may only take one button to fire your rifle, but in a theorhetical battle between nothing but rifleman that doesn't mean the batlle will play out like that that carnival game where you shoot BBs at targets that pop up. To think such a thing is to simply be ignorant of all the tactics and teamwork that such a game is really capable of allowing.
You just in a long winded response described literally any game with pvp and your tactics. Any game in pvp that uses teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion etc will win. How you think it s a FPS original. There is nothing special to DFO combat and whack-a-mole is right to a certain extent to most games. Just DFO does it better or worse however you want to look at it.
true lets hope av keeps improving the game
This I love the game, melee combat could use tweaks/polish or movements, and balancing is in order, they lowered the grind lots and keep on adding content. They just need to keep it up.
It certainly is the norm for my clan. 5 guys would be the bare minimum we send out on resource raiding parties.
NA1 has been up for less than two weeks but already I've been a part of four major battles (like 40-80 people total), alliance vs alliance conflicts.
Team PvP happens everyday in our clan in the form of raids and defensive operations, but sometimes they escalate into full blown conflict between guilds or alliances.
@Trenchgun
I'm still waiting your reply about something you were posting elsewhere. Here's the link:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/forums/post/2976012#2976012
I'm interested in what you have to say. Please answer.
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
When I have played it I havent really seen any being used. I guess its a matter who has seen or done what. The people i encountered was pretty much whack a mole.
Like I said, just because you haven't learned the more subtle aspects of combat, and don't associate with people who know how to do anything else, doesn't mean it isn't out there.
Teamwork and tactics are what allows my guild to take on an enemy twice their size, without having superior equipment or levels.
It certainly is not a whack a mole game when you are being chased by an enemy an horseback, but your team formulates a plan to lure them away from the safety of their keep, up a hill, and then positions themselves behind cover with bows ready to attack them once they get near, slaughtering their mounts and then hopping on your own to finish them off. That's just one example of an endless variety of things that happen everyday for us.
Tactics in a game is not defined by how many buttons you have to press to attack; Tactics is about using things other than your weapons to gain a significant advantage over the enemy; like superior teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion, etc. Things which don't normally play any role at all in MMO PvP, but are more commonly found in tactical FPS games.
There's also a whole other strategic layer to the game; The economics of attritional war, raiding the enemy's harvesters, setting up engagements to kill off their soldiers so they lose a lot of equipment, raidng to sack their buildings, forming strategic alliances, making morale destroying moves to help drive people out of the guild or undermine their alliances. War in darkfall is a strategic process, not a simple siege.
As someone who has played WW2OL for years (which as a realistic war simulator on an MMO scale, is completely unrivaled in it's level of tactics and teamwork on top of it's strategic layer), I can attest to the fact that there exists in darkfall a very high level of tactics and strategy to the game - Far more than I've ever seen in the pvP of any other MMORPG.
It WW2OL it may only take one button to fire your rifle, but in a theorhetical battle between nothing but rifleman that doesn't mean the batlle will play out like that that carnival game where you shoot BBs at targets that pop up. To think such a thing is to simply be ignorant of all the tactics and teamwork that such a game is really capable of allowing.
You just in a long winded response described literally any game with pvp and your tactics. Any game in pvp that uses teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion etc will win. How you think it s a FPS original. There is nothing special to DFO combat and whack-a-mole is right to a certain extent to most games. Just DFO does it better or worse however you want to look at it.
No other MMORPG has what I described in terms of tactics and teamwork at the level DF does. It's like comparing WW2OL to Battlefield 1942, a newbie might at a gloss think they are basically the same kind of game but anyone with significant experience can tell you they are as far apart as two games can be.
Wow, now that is an oxymoron.
How the hell can you have enough skill and tactics to beat someone that is more skilled then you? That is total obsfucation spin at it's best and completely obsequious sycophantic hyperbole.
Wht even make that comment? surely you understood what his meaning was?
I may be wrong but do some people who try to be clever ( and in thier minds probably really think they are intelligent ) seem to come of more dumb than the post they are talking about?
There is no really debating that combat does require tactics both in PvE and PvP. You may not have personally experienced it yet, but it's there, and an essential part of battle amongst non-newbs.
When I have played it I havent really seen any being used. I guess its a matter who has seen or done what. The people i encountered was pretty much whack a mole.
Like I said, just because you haven't learned the more subtle aspects of combat, and don't associate with people who know how to do anything else, doesn't mean it isn't out there.
Teamwork and tactics are what allows my guild to take on an enemy twice their size, without having superior equipment or levels.
It certainly is not a whack a mole game when you are being chased by an enemy an horseback, but your team formulates a plan to lure them away from the safety of their keep, up a hill, and then positions themselves behind cover with bows ready to attack them once they get near, slaughtering their mounts and then hopping on your own to finish them off. That's just one example of an endless variety of things that happen everyday for us.
Tactics in a game is not defined by how many buttons you have to press to attack; Tactics is about using things other than your weapons to gain a significant advantage over the enemy; like superior teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion, etc. Things which don't normally play any role at all in MMO PvP, but are more commonly found in tactical FPS games.
There's also a whole other strategic layer to the game; The economics of attritional war, raiding the enemy's harvesters, setting up engagements to kill off their soldiers so they lose a lot of equipment, raidng to sack their buildings, forming strategic alliances, making morale destroying moves to help drive people out of the guild or undermine their alliances. War in darkfall is a strategic process, not a simple siege.
As someone who has played WW2OL for years (which as a realistic war simulator on an MMO scale, is completely unrivaled in it's level of tactics and teamwork on top of it's strategic layer), I can attest to the fact that there exists in darkfall a very high level of tactics and strategy to the game - Far more than I've ever seen in the pvP of any other MMORPG.
It WW2OL it may only take one button to fire your rifle, but in a theorhetical battle between nothing but rifleman that doesn't mean the batlle will play out like that that carnival game where you shoot BBs at targets that pop up. To think such a thing is to simply be ignorant of all the tactics and teamwork that such a game is really capable of allowing.
You just in a long winded response described literally any game with pvp and your tactics. Any game in pvp that uses teamwork, terrain, manuever, confusion etc will win. How you think it s a FPS original. There is nothing special to DFO combat and whack-a-mole is right to a certain extent to most games. Just DFO does it better or worse however you want to look at it.
No other MMORPG has what I described in terms of tactics and teamwork at the level DF does. It's like comparing WW2OL to Battlefield 1942, a newbie might at a gloss think they are basically the same kind of game but anyone with significant experience can tell you they are as far apart as two games can be.
False. If you ve ever played DAOC, SB, Planetside, etc you would know a good group of people, using teamwork, knowing their abilities(not just button mashing), using terrain, how to manuever, use abilities to disable, disorient etc, then you wouldn t have said such comment. I ve played DFO and I can tell you it takes way more co ordination, and all listed tactics to be a good group and win more then not then DFO does by a long shot. DFO isn t the only game that uses these. Hell IMO anyways it uses it less then any of these games.