He started the review before the patch, but has been playing (still is) post-patch.
Forgive me for saying this but "magical" post release patches never stop a game nose diving into the abyss and make it much much better all at once.
Seriously dont think the patch is an issue. Lets not turn this into the next patch will get DF a better score. Its the core game which is in the spotlight. (And most people know that the core game is naked CS knife fights in a bland lacklustre fantasy settings)
Yeah, every MMO should be improving over time. There are some notable exceptions, but that is another story.
A review should be done with what is released and playable at the time of the review. A review has to deal in the here and now, not potential. That is why every MMO should release the very best, and most polished product that it possibly can on Release day. That is time when the vast majority of players make their decision on whether to play or not.
Of course MMOs can expect to have re-reviews if they survive long enough... but even that is not guaranteed. We've seen a couple examples of some re-reviews already. I think SWG's was a 5-year re-review, and Dana mentioned AoC getting a re-review soon as well.
So yeah, as MMOs are able to get things working better there should be some notable improvements from when they were released... but that isn't a substitute for how the game was on Release Day. Most MMOs only get one shot to get things right the first time, so they should pick their Release carefully.
Hopefully the person doing the review is basing it on post patch NA server client, played UO pre-trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, and will be giving the game the time a game that goes way beyond a theme park MMO deserves. If your reviewer meets that criteria, I look forward to the review. If not, well, I fear the game may not get the understanding and attention it deserves. Thank you -Other
I don't have a problem with the reviewer meeting that criteria.
Just as long as the first things noted in the review is:
Note: If you haven't ever played UO pre-Trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, then this game isn't for you because you will never understand this review, nor Darkfall.
Hate to say this but I would gather 60% of those that play mmo's where never in EQ or any of the other games you said. To be brutally honest about the only way to get people to understand a review now days is to compare it to WoW.
As long as the game itself is good and it is playable by the gamers and the review shows how it does then it should be a good review*.
*Note - Good meaning it describes the game properly not based on any score.
Hate to say this but I would gather 60% of those that play mmo's where never in EQ or any of the other games you said. To be brutally honest about the only way to get people to understand a review now days is to compare it to WoW. As long as the game itself is good and it is playable by the gamers and the review shows how it does then it should be a good review*.
*Note - Good meaning it describes the game properly not based on any score.
only 60%? You are too generous... more like 98%
Zek was one server on EQ.. there were actually a few for a while, but most old school EQers were playing carebear servers. And all those games are so old most everyone that played the PvP in them have either died off from old age or got responsible/grown up and quit gaming. (not all did though, like me )
Hate to say this but I would gather 60% of those that play mmo's where never in EQ or any of the other games you said. To be brutally honest about the only way to get people to understand a review now days is to compare it to WoW. As long as the game itself is good and it is playable by the gamers and the review shows how it does then it should be a good review*.
*Note - Good meaning it describes the game properly not based on any score.
I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make.
Well, actually you did get the point, but you didn't know it.
I just don't feel that having to meet the fans criteria would serve any purpose, other than to validate the fans of the game.
And, as you pointed out, a vast majority of the MMO audience would not even be able to relate.
Today's MMO players is the target audience that the review is made for, not the fans. The fans are already playing.
Anywho, I may visit this later, but I have other things to attend to right now.
I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing...
Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc.
Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Guys/girls! they are reveiwing it at this current time!
Why dont we stop trying to influence them by all these " if you do this it will be fair" and " if it scores lower than this, then it will be credible" ( not actual quotes but you ghet the jist ) comments and let them do it thier way? they actually have experience in MMO's and reviewing them, heck that's why we come here isnt it? no matter how much we try we arent going to influence them into our ways...so lets just let them review it and then discuss it after.
By the way Dana! as long as your reviewer has played longer than 6 months, experienced 3 different clans, participated in at least 10, 50+ raids, got Fire magic up to at least 100. and has made mastercraft in armoursmith....and scored it above 8 then i will accept it as a credible!
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you
Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance.
If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you
Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance.
If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also.
The table from the link above are the facts as they relate to mmorpg.com's recent reviews. I didn't make up the numbers in that table. I'm not trying to sway anything, as I was the one saying that mmorpg.com has done a better job than most sites in their reviews.
And yeah... the review will be what it is. For most it won't make the difference between playing or not. If you read back a few posts, I agreed with Zorvan on this upcoming DarkFall review. As long as it's not a 10... I'm fine with it.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
Well, I'm sure in a month of playing, he's probably seen whatever the game has to offer for those who haven't played it yet.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
"Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city"
Many would call what is suggested above staged. Im not saying its a bad idea, but it would make one wonder what else is staged after reading the review. I do understand what your saying, just we have different opinions on it.
Dana I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing... Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc. Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
I write in green therefore i am important!
Really?
But to lo let all these colors not be used would besuch a waste.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are. -CC
A fair review is written by someone who doesn't previous play the game but who takes enough time to at least see most parts of the game but you can't expect them to see everything. like all other MMOs this site have reviewed.
The fans of the game in particular don't always agree but it is not fair if they write it either. A reviewer shouldn't be biased in one way or another because the review would not be fair then. A review written by a fan or a hater will never be fair to the game and the people on this site who wants to know more about the game.
A review should always be written by someone who has no personal stake in a game.
Fine, let the reviewer not see absolutely everything.
But please, no more "Ok i killed some goblins, farmed some wood and ore for my clan, and crafted some arrows". Type of reviews. *cougheurogamer*
The thing is (apart from full loot pvp) sieges and clan politics are Darkfall's strongest selling points. Not reviewing or even mentioning them is like reviewing "The Dark Knight" and not mentioning Heath Ledger's performance
About the Manowar thing... let me rephrase: " the reviewer would be smart if he at least applied to be a part of the pirate crew "theMercs" are currently recruiting. "
MMORPGs are the hardest games to review. MMORPG.com requires experienced, dedicated writers who can take an objective look at an MMO, play it extensively and give us a fair and unbiased critical review. We are looking to review any MMO, no matter how old, and then return to re-review core games each year.
Requirements:
Each review must be between 2,000 and 3,000 words.
Review must be based on a minimum of three weeks dedicated play time just prior to writing the article.
Ability to provide an objective ÒscoreÓ based on our review model.
Reviewer cannot work for the company whose game they are reviewing or any competitor of that company.
Fine, let the reviewer not see absolutely everything. But please, no more "Ok i killed some goblins, farmed some wood and ore for my clan, and crafted some arrows". Type of reviews. *cougheurogamer* The thing is (apart from full loot pvp) sieges and clan politics are Darkfall's strongest selling points. Not reviewing or even mentioning them is like reviewing "The Dark Knight" and not mentioning Heath Ledger's performance About the Manowar thing... let me rephrase: " the reviewer would be smart if he at least applied to be a part of the pirate crew "theMercs" are currently recruiting. "
Someone who put in the time and reviewed it to the depth that you are talking about is:
Read through the blogs from the beginning there and you'll see that every aspect of the game was experienced and his take on it.
For sites like mmorpg.com though, it's unrealistic to expect them to level every skill, get to the highest level, go to every dungeon, raid, siege, etc. That would take 6 months of playing or more no matter what MMO you are referencing. Even then, there would be some MMOs that would still have content you'd be missing.
As Dana pointed out above, DarkFall will be getting the same (or in my opinion better) treatment as any other MMO. I base my opinion of DarkFall getting a better shake than it's peers (those games released a few months before or after it) on the table I put togethere here:
Those are the facts as they relate to this site and the recent reviews that mmorpg.com has done.
MMORPG.COM has handed out lower scores in the past for MMOs that deserved it. They've also handed out fairly high scores for those MMOs deserving of it. As long as they don't give it a 10 or a 1, and the reviewer has decent verbage to back up his opinion of the game... it will be a good review.
Remember, any review is just the opinion of a particular person at a moment in time in the life of a MMO. Depending on how articulate the reviewer, you may decide to agree or disagree with his/her opinion of the game.
Sometimes it seems like too many gamers forget that about reviews. Most reviewers are gamers too. They will have different and similar likes and dislikes in their MMO as compared to other gamers. Very rarely would two different gamers have the exact same opinion of any particular MMO.
Heh... now that I've rambled on again... I'll be done.
Everyone who has played Darkfall would know that you would have to be a player of the game to review it. If no staff here enjoys Darkfall dont worry, weve already received reviews from a very good source, Paragus1.
He/She may not be staff here at mmorpg.com but every review written by Paragus was an epic one. Or did you guys forget? MMORPG.com even put the reviews on the main page, you didnt have to find them in the forums, it was straight up news. These reviews were better than most reviews of any game ive seen. So sit down.
Very rarely would two different gamers have the exact same opinion of any particular MMO.
Heh... now that I've rambled on again... I'll be done.
I disagree. Myself and everyone in my guild thinks DFO is trash. We gave it whirl at release. We even came back to check out the patch to see how things have changed. Bottom line, all 45 of us agree. DFO isn't worth the space it takes up on your hard drive. IMHO, give the developers a couple more years and let people continue to pay for the DFO beta. Eventually, they should be able to get it right and include all the things that are/were on the features list.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Everyone who has played Darkfall would know that you would have to be a player of the game to review it. If no staff here enjoys Darkfall dont worry, weve already received reviews from a very good source, Paragus1.
He/She may not be staff here at mmorpg.com but every review written by Paragus was an epic one. Or did you guys forget? MMORPG.com even put the reviews on the main page, you didnt have to find them in the forums, it was straight up news. These reviews were better than most reviews of any game ive seen. So sit down.
The new-comers probably don't even know who Paragus1 is. The main reason for that is that I don't think he is playing any longer. I could be wrong on that, but I know he posts quite a bit now about Aion... DarkFall... not so much.
Comments
He started the review before the patch, but has been playing (still is) post-patch.
Forgive me for saying this but "magical" post release patches never stop a game nose diving into the abyss and make it much much better all at once.
Seriously dont think the patch is an issue. Lets not turn this into the next patch will get DF a better score. Its the core game which is in the spotlight. (And most people know that the core game is naked CS knife fights in a bland lacklustre fantasy settings)
Yeah, every MMO should be improving over time. There are some notable exceptions, but that is another story.
A review should be done with what is released and playable at the time of the review. A review has to deal in the here and now, not potential. That is why every MMO should release the very best, and most polished product that it possibly can on Release day. That is time when the vast majority of players make their decision on whether to play or not.
Of course MMOs can expect to have re-reviews if they survive long enough... but even that is not guaranteed. We've seen a couple examples of some re-reviews already. I think SWG's was a 5-year re-review, and Dana mentioned AoC getting a re-review soon as well.
So yeah, as MMOs are able to get things working better there should be some notable improvements from when they were released... but that isn't a substitute for how the game was on Release Day. Most MMOs only get one shot to get things right the first time, so they should pick their Release carefully.
I don't have a problem with the reviewer meeting that criteria.
Just as long as the first things noted in the review is:
Note: If you haven't ever played UO pre-Trammel, Darktide in AC1 or one of the Zek EQ servers, then this game isn't for you because you will never understand this review, nor Darkfall.
Sounds fair to me.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Respite,
Hate to say this but I would gather 60% of those that play mmo's where never in EQ or any of the other games you said. To be brutally honest about the only way to get people to understand a review now days is to compare it to WoW.
As long as the game itself is good and it is playable by the gamers and the review shows how it does then it should be a good review*.
*Note - Good meaning it describes the game properly not based on any score.
only 60%? You are too generous... more like 98%
Zek was one server on EQ.. there were actually a few for a while, but most old school EQers were playing carebear servers. And all those games are so old most everyone that played the PvP in them have either died off from old age or got responsible/grown up and quit gaming. (not all did though, like me
)
I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make.
Well, actually you did get the point, but you didn't know it.
I just don't feel that having to meet the fans criteria would serve any purpose, other than to validate the fans of the game.
And, as you pointed out, a vast majority of the MMO audience would not even be able to relate.
Today's MMO players is the target audience that the review is made for, not the fans. The fans are already playing.
Anywho, I may visit this later, but I have other things to attend to right now.
Take care.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Dana
I hope your reviewer does not do the typical "kill some goblins, farm some wood for the clan" thing...
Instead what would be really cool imho, would be if he managed to participate in what only bloggers like Paragus (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3666_Darkfall-Warships) have covered so far.. that is city sieges, clan politics, political backstabbing, naval combat... etc.
Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city :P
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Guys/girls! they are reveiwing it at this current time!
Why dont we stop trying to influence them by all these " if you do this it will be fair" and " if it scores lower than this, then it will be credible" ( not actual quotes but you ghet the jist ) comments and let them do it thier way? they actually have experience in MMO's and reviewing them, heck that's why we come here isnt it? no matter how much we try we arent going to influence them into our ways...so lets just let them review it and then discuss it after.
By the way Dana! as long as your reviewer has played longer than 6 months, experienced 3 different clans, participated in at least 10, 50+ raids, got Fire magic up to at least 100. and has made mastercraft in armoursmith....and scored it above 8 then i will accept it as a credible!
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you
Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet
this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance.
If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also.
Read through reviews of other MMOs here on mmorpg.com... that will give you a good idea of what to expect from this review.
Do the reviewers get to the max level/skill and participate in the majority of "end-game" activities before they do their review? Sure, there might be a couple exceptions; but by and large the answer is no.
The reason is because reviews of MMOs are most relevant when the MMO is fairly new on the scene. That is when most players are wanting some advice on how the MMO stacks up compared to other MMOs. As it is, with DarkFall being 5 months released; this review is already pushing the envelope of relevance. It helps that Aventurine recently released their NA server... for that reason, the timing of this review is still relevant.
By all means; review sites should do some follow-up reviews as the game progresses. For the most part though MMO reviews are about first impressions and what a new player can expect in their first few weeks in the game. It is simply a matter of time and return on investment. Sites like this one can not afford to pay reviewers to play a MMO for 6 months before they give their review. The review would by that time also be mostly irrelevant since most players would have already bought it, or something else.
As it is mmorpg.com has given DarkFall more time to develop than they've given the majority of MMOs. DarkFall is a couple days away from their 5 month mark. From what Dana has told us, the reviewer has spent a month or more playing the game. That is more generous than most MMOs get.
Nope, DarkFall is getting the best advantage here than any other site that has reviewed DarkFall so far.
Didnt she actually say that thier reviewers are required to give at least 3 weeks to each game they review? and that also it's very rare that they actually review a game early on release? this would suggest that Darkfall is getting about the same attention..though she hasnt commented on whether any games get more than that 3 week period...so for all we know Darkfall might not be getting as much.....but then again friend i am just gusessing myself! pretty much the same as you
Again lets stop trying to swing opinions before its even out yet
this site has a policy they stick to when reviewing games. we dont know all the ins and outs so lets just trust them and give them chance.
If they come out with a low score.i for one will respect that! even though i am still playing and still think its the best game out there at the min. i will still respect thier review and trust that they are honest and gave the game a fair crack. i suggest all Darkfall players follow the same suit.......of course i also suggest that all sceptics follow the same rules also.
You should go back and read my post #21...
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2962237#2962237
The table from the link above are the facts as they relate to mmorpg.com's recent reviews. I didn't make up the numbers in that table. I'm not trying to sway anything, as I was the one saying that mmorpg.com has done a better job than most sites in their reviews.
And yeah... the review will be what it is. For most it won't make the difference between playing or not. If you read back a few posts, I agreed with Zorvan on this upcoming DarkFall review. As long as it's not a 10... I'm fine with it.
To each their own, and have fun.
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I think the whole mmorpg staff should review darkfall and average the scores beacause it really is to much resposibility for one person
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
LOL
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
I write in green therefore i am important!
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
Well, I'm sure in a month of playing, he's probably seen whatever the game has to offer for those who haven't played it yet.
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
"Also "theMercs" clan have just managed to build the largest warship in game and they were recruiting people to man those cannons.. would be cool if your guy somehow managed to join them and review how it is to blow up a coastal city"
Many would call what is suggested above staged. Im not saying its a bad idea, but it would make one wonder what else is staged after reading the review. I do understand what your saying, just we have different opinions on it.
(edit- typo)
Not sure if a staged review would be the way to go about it, could open up a whole new can of worms, just a thought.
No one was suggesting a "staged review". What was suggested is a review from a person who actually experiences aspects of the game not one reviewer of a recognized "fan site" has had the time to do. You simply can't give DFO a fair review without experiencing it, and that's all that is being suggested. For all we know the review may say shooting cannons at players, ships and cities isn't fun, or doesn't work; or blowing up or building cities isn't fun or doesn't work, or whatever. He/she may say cooperating with a guild or alliance is not fun and prefers a more solo friendly game. Point is merely that a reviewer "experience" the whole game to the extent possible, as those of us playing it are.
-CC
I write in green therefore i am important!
Really?
But to lo let all these colors not be used would besuch a waste.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
A fair review is written by someone who doesn't previous play the game but who takes enough time to at least see most parts of the game but you can't expect them to see everything. like all other MMOs this site have reviewed.
The fans of the game in particular don't always agree but it is not fair if they write it either. A reviewer shouldn't be biased in one way or another because the review would not be fair then. A review written by a fan or a hater will never be fair to the game and the people on this site who wants to know more about the game.
A review should always be written by someone who has no personal stake in a game.
Fine, let the reviewer not see absolutely everything.
But please, no more "Ok i killed some goblins, farmed some wood and ore for my clan, and crafted some arrows". Type of reviews. *cougheurogamer*
The thing is (apart from full loot pvp) sieges and clan politics are Darkfall's strongest selling points. Not reviewing or even mentioning them is like reviewing "The Dark Knight" and not mentioning Heath Ledger's performance
About the Manowar thing... let me rephrase: " the reviewer would be smart if he at least applied to be a part of the pirate crew "theMercs" are currently recruiting. "
Game Reviewers
MMORPGs are the hardest games to review. MMORPG.com requires experienced, dedicated writers who can take an objective look at an MMO, play it extensively and give us a fair and unbiased critical review. We are looking to review any MMO, no matter how old, and then return to re-review core games each year.
Requirements:
Each review must be between 2,000 and 3,000 words.
Review must be based on a minimum of three weeks dedicated play time just prior to writing the article.
Ability to provide an objective ÒscoreÓ based on our review model.
Reviewer cannot work for the company whose game they are reviewing or any competitor of that company.
Someone who put in the time and reviewed it to the depth that you are talking about is:
www.keenandgraev.com/
Read through the blogs from the beginning there and you'll see that every aspect of the game was experienced and his take on it.
For sites like mmorpg.com though, it's unrealistic to expect them to level every skill, get to the highest level, go to every dungeon, raid, siege, etc. That would take 6 months of playing or more no matter what MMO you are referencing. Even then, there would be some MMOs that would still have content you'd be missing.
As Dana pointed out above, DarkFall will be getting the same (or in my opinion better) treatment as any other MMO. I base my opinion of DarkFall getting a better shake than it's peers (those games released a few months before or after it) on the table I put togethere here:
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2962237#2962237
Those are the facts as they relate to this site and the recent reviews that mmorpg.com has done.
MMORPG.COM has handed out lower scores in the past for MMOs that deserved it. They've also handed out fairly high scores for those MMOs deserving of it. As long as they don't give it a 10 or a 1, and the reviewer has decent verbage to back up his opinion of the game... it will be a good review.
Remember, any review is just the opinion of a particular person at a moment in time in the life of a MMO. Depending on how articulate the reviewer, you may decide to agree or disagree with his/her opinion of the game.
Sometimes it seems like too many gamers forget that about reviews. Most reviewers are gamers too. They will have different and similar likes and dislikes in their MMO as compared to other gamers. Very rarely would two different gamers have the exact same opinion of any particular MMO.
Heh... now that I've rambled on again... I'll be done.
Guys put down the pitchforks!!
Everyone who has played Darkfall would know that you would have to be a player of the game to review it. If no staff here enjoys Darkfall dont worry, weve already received reviews from a very good source, Paragus1.
He/She may not be staff here at mmorpg.com but every review written by Paragus was an epic one. Or did you guys forget? MMORPG.com even put the reviews on the main page, you didnt have to find them in the forums, it was straight up news. These reviews were better than most reviews of any game ive seen. So sit down.
(Paragus' reviews)
Alliance Leader Interviews - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/042009/3605_Darkfall-Alliance-Leader-Interviews
Then on the right side are links to 5 others. Most notably the Darkfall warships review, epic, this is in the April archives.
I disagree. Myself and everyone in my guild thinks DFO is trash. We gave it whirl at release. We even came back to check out the patch to see how things have changed. Bottom line, all 45 of us agree. DFO isn't worth the space it takes up on your hard drive. IMHO, give the developers a couple more years and let people continue to pay for the DFO beta. Eventually, they should be able to get it right and include all the things that are/were on the features list.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
The new-comers probably don't even know who Paragus1 is. The main reason for that is that I don't think he is playing any longer. I could be wrong on that, but I know he posts quite a bit now about Aion... DarkFall... not so much.
Decide for yourself what that means.