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My Concern: Pveing your abyss points

Tenken29Tenken29 Member Posts: 151

Just a personal opinion and wondering what the rest of you think. Ive seen some mentions of this but not a real thread about it. My concern is that people will avoid pvping for their abyss points and just pve for them. If anyone has looked at Kilkil's thread about pvp in aion being like rvr (great thread btw) you can see him mention that many korean players are not too much into fighting each other but instead just take the safe route to pve their points.

Is anyone else concerned about this? One of my biggest issues in WAR was how people could get realm points simply by just trading keeps and avoid fighting. I think the most solid defense ive heard so far is that although you need abyss points to get gear you still need medals/badges to buy other stuff. I just hope there is enough of an incentive to pvp for fun and get abyss points that way instead of it being too much of a deterent to lose abyss points in pvp but not in pve. I guess ideally you'd get more abyss points through pvp than pve, but that's just the way i think.

This brings me onto another point. Not sure how many of you played WAR but there was much talk before the game that all the "8v8" players would play on Skullthrone. I think this was a good idea but poorly implemented. The problem being that everyone went to order and that it was just the "8v8 players"

My question is what would you all think if someone organized some sort of thread dedicated to everyone that's interested in pvping for their abyss points to join one server (undetermined). This is for anyone that is just interested in pvp, not just a home dedicated to the "leetest players". If you like pvping for fun and want to get your abyss points by pvp, this would be the place. Would you be interested? Or would it just be a waste of time since there are less amount of servers (so im told, not sure if there is an official list) than WAR?

Would you be interested in joining a server where people across multiple forums are more interested in pvping for your abyss points?

PS - not that there is anything wrong with pveing your abyss points but it could be fun to get people more excited about pvp on the same server, even if it is just 50+ people. Have to start somewhere.

Thanks everyone.

Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
http://aionfactions.homelinux.com

Comments

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240

    Almost sounds like you want a pure PVP server. After lvl 25 you'll be PvPing for the most part anyways. I do understand what you are saying here if and when the server list is out let me know which one you are going to play.

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • lornphoenixlornphoenix Member Posts: 993
    Originally posted by Zandora2018


    Almost sounds like you want a pure PVP server. After lvl 25 you'll be PvPing for the most part anyways. I do understand what you are saying here if and when the server list is out let me know which one you are going to play.

     

    Reread what the OP wrote.

     

    Op worried that people will avoid PvP and just to do PvE to get the AP, and that is a valid concern.. one I hadn't thought about.

     

     

    image
  • kalarenkalaren Member Posts: 83
    Originally posted by lornphoenix

    Originally posted by Zandora2018


    Almost sounds like you want a pure PVP server. After lvl 25 you'll be PvPing for the most part anyways. I do understand what you are saying here if and when the server list is out let me know which one you are going to play.

     

    Reread what the OP wrote.

     

    Op worried that people will avoid PvP and just to do PvE to get the AP, and that is a valid concern.. one I hadn't thought about.

     

     

    From my understanding though, even if they choose to pve for points, when they go up the ladder they'll become big fat targets for pvp.

  • justamemoryjustamemory Member Posts: 200

    don't forget dungeon lockout timers :)

  • FastTxFastTx Member UncommonPosts: 756

    People who try to farm AP this way will become big fat juicy targets. They will be very vulnerable to headhunters, they will have a large bounty. I'd say thanks to these people who spend time grinding AP so I can kill them and take it away from them!

    There needs to be a PvE grind in this game or you'll get bored just PvPing constantly all the time. It is true that at a certain point you'll just want to PvE altogether to get the 750k AP weapon but all of these quests are done in locations you can get killed. You'll still be looking past your shoulder for the nearest gank group. Thus even PvEing your AP won't be easy and it's slow to do so, you can only farm so much. I just can't see anyone spend an entire day farming 20k AP only to be killed once and lose 10k.

  • Tenken29Tenken29 Member Posts: 151
    Originally posted by FastTx


    People who try to farm AP this way will become big fat juicy targets. They will be very vulnerable to headhunters, they will have a large bounty. I'd say thanks to these people who spend time grinding AP so I can kill them and take it away from them!
    There needs to be a PvE grind in this game or you'll get bored just PvPing constantly all the time. It is true that at a certain point you'll just want to PvE altogether to get the 750k AP weapon but all of these quests are done in locations you can get killed. You'll still be looking past your shoulder for the nearest gank group. Thus even PvEing your AP won't be easy and it's slow to do so, you can only farm so much. I just can't see anyone spend an entire day farming 20k AP only to be killed once and lose 10k.



     

    My problem though is it sounds like it is easier to PVE your Abyss points than PVP for them. This is due to the fact that you do not lose abyss points for dying in pve, although I do understand what you're saying about killing people that pve for them. I just hope this doesn't encourage those types of players from running away from you and avoiding combat. Once again I refer to KilKil's post of koreans just pveing abyss points.

    As for your comment about "there needs to be a pve grind or you will get bored pvping all the time"... I have to say I disagree (my personal opinion). To me that's like saying a man can't just make love all the time he needs stable relationship. I guess , but it depends what the guy is looking for. I'm looking for a game to PVP in, I just level up as a means to doing so, ive come to accept that I have to level. But in my perfect world, after im done pveing i'll be able to pvp as much as I want and not have to do anything else. There maybe other options but I should never be forced to do anything.

    Thanks for everyone that has responded with your thoughts so far :). I do understand that people pveing will be vunerable, but I still think it maybe fun if everyone that was more into pvping for abyss were on the same server.

    Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
    http://aionfactions.homelinux.com

  • Tenken29Tenken29 Member Posts: 151
    Originally posted by parrotpholk


    If you make a pure unbridled pvp game then you have what most have seen lately and that is zero population. Its also a pvpve game. As long as thats the mechanic then let people do it how they like. Its within the framework of the game to play like this



     

    Keep in mind this is nothing about stopping what people like to do. Anyone is free to not join this group if this even becomes one. Just simply another choice for everyone. People can still PVE for abyss if we pick a dedicated server also... it's not like we control everything. Simply a fun idea of getting people that like to pvp together.

    Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
    http://aionfactions.homelinux.com

  • grandpagamergrandpagamer Member Posts: 2,221

    PVP for me is something to do on the side. These games are, or supposed to be RPG's. To be an RPG you need RPG elements. While  PVP  can be one element of this but it cannot be the only element, at least not in a true RPG. If PVP is the only element you will be playing on very few servers, if any. Warhammer has its share of haters and for good reason but i for one enjoyed the PVP in that game up to a point but with nothing else to do it got boring rather quickly.

  • Tenken29Tenken29 Member Posts: 151
    Originally posted by grandpagamer


    PVP for me is something to do on the side. These games are, or supposed to be RPG's. To be an RPG you need RPG elements. While  PVP  can be one element of this but it cannot be the only element, at least not in a true RPG. If PVP is the only element you will be playing on very few servers, if any. Warhammer has its share of haters and for good reason but i for one enjoyed the PVP in that game up to a point but with nothing else to do it got boring rather quickly.



     

    I think it got boring quickly cause of how badly implemented the pvp was in WAR. But there's no point in going back and forth of what's good pvp or what an mmo needs, like im sure we both know it is whatever someone has fun doing. I still enjoy doing other stuff, but pvp is my end all.

    Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
    http://aionfactions.homelinux.com

  • DevilXaphanDevilXaphan Member UncommonPosts: 1,144

    Don't see this becoming big problem as farming in the abyss will be difficult to do as more people enter it. There will be to many people looking for a PK, especially while the other faction is farming mobs. Beisides the more you abyss points you acquire the more you become known and a fat bounty target to kill, especially when your announced by the game.

    Once you use your abyss points their gone and you have to farm more up, so basically getting the best gear and weapons will be a bit difficult at first.

    image
  • VandiegoVandiego Member Posts: 34

    Let's not forget to win access to the instance you have to gain control of the caslte/fortress in the Abyss which is a lot of RvR PvPing and you only retain it for 2 hours, if the information I read was correct.

  • There was a blog post from a very highly ranked Korean server player who basically said exactly this.  That basically as he got higher and higher in AP he needed to maintain a 100% survival rate.  Therefore he only PvPed when it was a sure thing and PvEed for regular AP gains.

     

    And that as you get higher you need to kill higher ranked guys and those guys tend to not be sure things so he was pretty sure he would need to grind a lot.

     

    But maybe this will even out over time.  His main concern was getting the good gear and he was very high early on.  Perhaps over time as the PVE AP accumulate among many people  there will be more and more funds put into the system such that people are not paralyzed with caution.

     

     

  • NadrilNadril Member Posts: 1,276


    Originally posted by gestalt11
    There was a blog post from a very highly ranked Korean server player who basically said exactly this.  That basically as he got higher and higher in AP he needed to maintain a 100% survival rate.  Therefore he only PvPed when it was a sure thing and PvEed for regular AP gains.
     
    And that as you get higher you need to kill higher ranked guys and those guys tend to not be sure things so he was pretty sure he would need to grind a lot.
     
    But maybe this will even out over time.  His main concern was getting the good gear and he was very high early on.  Perhaps over time as the PVE AP accumulate among many people  there will be more and more funds put into the system such that people are not paralyzed with caution.
     
     

    I think this also depends if you are going after a top AP rank (for transformation) or if you are just going for the gear. I can see the last bit of gathering AP fairly difficult for some of the good gear, but at the most it may just be that near the end you play it a bit more safe, get your gear and then you'll be back down to low AP points because you spent them. I do think that for those players who have to be "number one" they'll have to put in a lot of dedication to it which makes sense considering all of the amazing abilities you get.

    For the average player I don't think we will run into this much. Sure, we'll have to be careful but I don't think it'll be as big of a deal as if we were going for #1 AP points.

  • comerbcomerb Member UncommonPosts: 944
    Originally posted by Tenken29


    Just a personal opinion and wondering what the rest of you think. Ive seen some mentions of this but not a real thread about it. My concern is that people will avoid pvping for their abyss points and just pve for them. If anyone has looked at Kilkil's thread about pvp in aion being like rvr (great thread btw) you can see him mention that many korean players are not too much into fighting each other but instead just take the safe route to pve their points.
    Is anyone else concerned about this? One of my biggest issues in WAR was how people could get realm points simply by just trading keeps and avoid fighting. I think the most solid defense ive heard so far is that although you need abyss points to get gear you still need medals/badges to buy other stuff. I just hope there is enough of an incentive to pvp for fun and get abyss points that way instead of it being too much of a deterent to lose abyss points in pvp but not in pve. I guess ideally you'd get more abyss points through pvp than pve, but that's just the way i think.
    This brings me onto another point. Not sure how many of you played WAR but there was much talk before the game that all the "8v8" players would play on Skullthrone. I think this was a good idea but poorly implemented. The problem being that everyone went to order and that it was just the "8v8 players"
    My question is what would you all think if someone organized some sort of thread dedicated to everyone that's interested in pvping for their abyss points to join one server (undetermined). This is for anyone that is just interested in pvp, not just a home dedicated to the "leetest players". If you like pvping for fun and want to get your abyss points by pvp, this would be the place. Would you be interested? Or would it just be a waste of time since there are less amount of servers (so im told, not sure if there is an official list) than WAR?
    Would you be interested in joining a server where people across multiple forums are more interested in pvping for your abyss points?
    PS - not that there is anything wrong with pveing your abyss points but it could be fun to get people more excited about pvp on the same server, even if it is just 50+ people. Have to start somewhere.
    Thanks everyone.

     

    Just to educate the people on the exact situation your talking about , this developing concern by players relates to the new PvE dungeons located in the bottom of Abyss Fortresses which grant copious amounts of Abyss Points while being purely PvE.  

    Players are farming these dungeons (on the test servers)in relative safety (from PvPers) and basically wracking up the Abyss Points.  Hell, you can even teleport to the fortresses themselves which prevents you from ever having to step foot into the Abyss and risk PvP.

    Something to keep in mind however, is that these Fortresses are captured via PvP battles.  The basic premise of the dungeons was to further reward factions for participating and being successful in siege combat.  That's a good thing.

    Most people believe the most simple solution is to place a longer lockout on the dungeons.  By doing so the dungeons become a bonus for gaining AP instead of a replacement for open Abyss PvP. 

    I personally don't have a problem with players doing PvE for Abyss Points.  However I believe that PvE should always have a PvP component.  That happens to be the case now, as doing PvE in the open Abyss leaves a person open to attack in PvP... and doing dungeons in fortresses requires that the faction was successful in siege combat. 

    As long as open PvP in the Abyss continues to be the greatest source of Abyss Points, everything will be great.  Hopefully they adjust the dungeon rewards appropriately to reflect that.

     

     

  • Zandora2018Zandora2018 Member Posts: 240
    Originally posted by lornphoenix

    Originally posted by Zandora2018


    Almost sounds like you want a pure PVP server. After lvl 25 you'll be PvPing for the most part anyways. I do understand what you are saying here if and when the server list is out let me know which one you are going to play.

     

    Reread what the OP wrote.

     

    Op worried that people will avoid PvP and just to do PvE to get the AP, and that is a valid concern.. one I hadn't thought about.

     

     

     

    If you read what i wrote then you would understand as well. AoC as pure PvP servers that most ppl who PvP go there because of it. If Aion had a pure PvP server in which you could PvP from say lvl 10 on then that server is where most of the PvPers would go and then the other servers would have more PvE setup. I fully understand what the OP is saying it is you who do not read very well.

    Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
    Playing Rift

    Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(

  • ghostinfinitghostinfinit Member UncommonPosts: 552
    Originally posted by comerb

    Originally posted by Tenken29


    Just a personal opinion and wondering what the rest of you think. Ive seen some mentions of this but not a real thread about it. My concern is that people will avoid pvping for their abyss points and just pve for them. If anyone has looked at Kilkil's thread about pvp in aion being like rvr (great thread btw) you can see him mention that many korean players are not too much into fighting each other but instead just take the safe route to pve their points.
    Is anyone else concerned about this? One of my biggest issues in WAR was how people could get realm points simply by just trading keeps and avoid fighting. I think the most solid defense ive heard so far is that although you need abyss points to get gear you still need medals/badges to buy other stuff. I just hope there is enough of an incentive to pvp for fun and get abyss points that way instead of it being too much of a deterent to lose abyss points in pvp but not in pve. I guess ideally you'd get more abyss points through pvp than pve, but that's just the way i think.
    This brings me onto another point. Not sure how many of you played WAR but there was much talk before the game that all the "8v8" players would play on Skullthrone. I think this was a good idea but poorly implemented. The problem being that everyone went to order and that it was just the "8v8 players"
    My question is what would you all think if someone organized some sort of thread dedicated to everyone that's interested in pvping for their abyss points to join one server (undetermined). This is for anyone that is just interested in pvp, not just a home dedicated to the "leetest players". If you like pvping for fun and want to get your abyss points by pvp, this would be the place. Would you be interested? Or would it just be a waste of time since there are less amount of servers (so im told, not sure if there is an official list) than WAR?
    Would you be interested in joining a server where people across multiple forums are more interested in pvping for your abyss points?
    PS - not that there is anything wrong with pveing your abyss points but it could be fun to get people more excited about pvp on the same server, even if it is just 50+ people. Have to start somewhere.
    Thanks everyone.

     

    Just to educate the people on the exact situation your talking about , this developing concern by players relates to the new PvE dungeons located in the bottom of Abyss Fortresses which grant copious amounts of Abyss Points while being purely PvE.  

    Players are farming these dungeons (on the test servers)in relative safety (from PvPers) and basically wracking up the Abyss Points.  Hell, you can even teleport to the fortresses themselves which prevents you from ever having to step foot into the Abyss and risk PvP.

    Something to keep in mind however, is that these Fortresses are captured via PvP battles.  The basic premise of the dungeons was to further reward factions for participating and being successful in siege combat.  That's a good thing.

    Most people believe the most simple solution is to place a longer lockout on the dungeons.  By doing so the dungeons become a bonus for gaining AP instead of a replacement for open Abyss PvP. 

    I personally don't have a problem with players doing PvE for Abyss Points.  However I believe that PvE should always have a PvP component.  That happens to be the case now, as doing PvE in the open Abyss leaves a person open to attack in PvP... and doing dungeons in fortresses requires that the faction was successful in siege combat. 

    As long as open PvP in the Abyss continues to be the greatest source of Abyss Points, everything will be great.  Hopefully they adjust the dungeon rewards appropriately to reflect that.

     

     

    I got this direct quote from an interview with an aion dev:

     

     

    What about players that are in a dungeon or engaged in active PvE? Is there a chance for them to get ambushed?

    Brian: There's world PvP, but we also instanced PvP as well. When we launch there's going to be sixteen new instances than what their is in beta. Everyone knows that you're going in to fight against other players. But in the world PvP, if you're on the Abyss you're putting yourself out there on the line. That's also where a lot of the good rewards are and - I think - where a lot of the fun is in Aion.

    That said, if you're on your side of the world, eighty to ninety percent of what you're doing is basic PvE. Players can receive these "infiltration quests" however where they can jump through portals and go to the other side of the world. There's a whole system in place to help stop griefing and that sort of thing, but it still keeps you on your toes. It should remind them that a battle is still occurring without having them be constantly harassed.

     

    I think this is a pretty cool feature and somewhat relevant to this thread.

  • comerbcomerb Member UncommonPosts: 944



    I got this direct quote from an interview with an aion dev:

     
     
    What about players that are in a dungeon or engaged in active PvE? Is there a chance for them to get ambushed?
    Brian: There's world PvP, but we also instanced PvP as well. When we launch there's going to be sixteen new instances than what their is in beta. Everyone knows that you're going in to fight against other players. But in the world PvP, if you're on the Abyss you're putting yourself out there on the line. That's also where a lot of the good rewards are and - I think - where a lot of the fun is in Aion.
    That said, if you're on your side of the world, eighty to ninety percent of what you're doing is basic PvE. Players can receive these "infiltration quests" however where they can jump through portals and go to the other side of the world. There's a whole system in place to help stop griefing and that sort of thing, but it still keeps you on your toes. It should remind them that a battle is still occurring without having them be constantly harassed.

     
    I think this is a pretty cool feature and somewhat relevant to this thread.



     

    He's referring to rifting, which is a seperate issue.  Outside of the Abyss, you don't earn Abyss Points for doing PvE.  However, rifts are periodically opened that allow players to invade these "non Abyss" PvE zones.  This is what he is referring to, and while I admit it's pretty cool, its not really a concern for me that players engaged in PvE that are NOT earning Abyss Points be subjegated to PvP.  Not that I mind, but yeah.

    The dungeons that are being referred to in my previous post are located in the Abyss, at the bottom of the siegable fortresses.  Of these multiple instances that they've added, only one of them allows for PvP in the instanced dungeon itself.  The rest of them are purely PvE, with no chance of the opposing faction engaging them.

  • linrenlinren Member Posts: 578

    I enjoy a good PvP and also want to be able to have fun PvE.  In the 1.5 update AP are awarded in PvE content, and this is also one way to get AP without much chance of losing it.  I am sure it is not as fast as doing stuff in the Abyss, but some people will rather not risk losing AP and just pile it on while PvE.  However this is Korean Aion's view, since most of what Koreans consider PvP are ganking and field hunting, which have been stated by few Korean Aion players that already reached 50.  Hopefully the NA release the massive battle will be done with more fervor.

    Not sure how NA release of PvP content will turn into, but I don't really care.  I am perfectly fine with PvP and PvE, but I usually do not actively PvP because most mmorpg are very imbalanced.  Aion on the other hand feels balanced and depend on playing skills more than character stat.  I look forward to the PvP in Aion, but also would like to see PvE content that will entertain.

     

  • LilPhuckerLilPhucker Member Posts: 10

    I don't normally post in these kind of forums, mostly because they are full of people who have no clue as to what they are talking about, people who live in a dellusion that they some how think they have skill in a game they have barely played. This thread is a good example. The only person I have seen who knows what they are talking about is the high level Korean player whom someone quoted.

    Here is the scoop kiddies, you can run around the forums all day and all night saying you are going to kill everyone and their mother over and over in Aion; but the fact is you will soon be cowering in the corner once you realize the extent of the penalty for death in pvp. Unless it is a sure thing, you will be fleeing pvp out of fear you might die and lose your points.

    your rude awakening is coming, lol

  • Rikimaru_XRikimaru_X Member UncommonPosts: 11,718

    It's all about how you play. Some of the best pvpers in Aion don't fight somebody unless they are absolutely sure they can win the fight. It's eay to get the points though quest and PVE and that balances things out weather ya pvp or not.

    -In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
    |
    RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

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