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Questions for the vets
xiirot
Fallen Earth CorrespondentMember Posts: 328
I played AD&D with my big brother when I was growing up. Aside from that, I played Rifts with a group of friends briefly, we'd stay after school and play Rifts in one of the classrooms. After a while, I started looking into MUDs and played those briefly.
The one thing that interests me the most of those games is the freedom to create the character that I want to play.
So here's where my questions come in: how much freedom do I have in DDO? Can I create a sorcerer/thief type class that uses daggers and a crossbow and wears a mixture of cloth and leather armor, and casts some magic?
Also, some tips on customizing the 'paths' would be nice if you guys would honor with me your knowledge.
Thanks
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
Comments
The short answer is yes.
But you should really read the class forums on the DDO forums. As there are a number of things that may or may not work well and the respec mechanics of DDO are lacking. So you need to make sure you have a plan ahead of time.
And of course you have no DM to adjust the game for how you play.
A Warforged sorceror or wizard with 2 levels of rogue is a very effective build. You could make a character that could use leather armor and cast spells (or take warforged armor feats) but frankly it won't matter much as the AC tends to balloon at higher levels.
That is the major thing with DDO , it has 3rd edition rules but its still an MMO with all the tripe of MMOs. There is nothing in D&D with anywhere even close to the kind of HP that some bosses and high end content stuff has.
Of course. If you look for character customization, you probably won't find an MMO with more options. Basically, if it's possible in D&D, it's possible here as well. Just take into consideration that in real D&D there's usually only 3 people who play the game with you, and if your character isn't very efficient, Dungeon Master will get you more magic items, etc. Here, it's an MMO game, you're on your own.
That said, I think it's not a problem at all. DDO is mainly a PvE game, so I wouldn't be afraid of experimenting with anything, as long as you know why you're doing it and what you want to achieve.
Multiclassing work like that - you take one class. Then, when you level up, you can train next level from your class trainer, or seek any other class trainer. You simply add a level of the class you want. You can have up to 3 classes for one character, but I'd recommend you single class, than experimenting with second, and if you feel confident - go on, take third class. 3 classes are pretty rare though.
Here's a VERY good resource for you:
compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Compendium_Home
I especially encourage you to review that section:
compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Category:Character_Attributes
And if you're just starting to experiment, without much D&D knowledge, this is a must:
compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Category:Path_Directories
Have fun!
PS: Gestalt11 -> Tarrasque and ancient wyrm dragons?
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Wonderful post! I just started the beta about 2 weeks ago and cant seem to get passed level four because the options for customization and the way you can build your characters is absolutely wonderful. In fact, I would venture to say ddo has the most and best class customization I have experienced thus far. Some may argue that skill based games have more customization- but like I said "Class customization"- defined by rules that so many of us have gamed by for quite some time... being able to be more than one class at the same time is more fun to me than gaining skill in whatever I use at the time... because I know i'm a rogue, I'm not going to forget how to stick my dagger in your back... I may just be in the mood to heal at the moment because I did choose cleric you know > >
I would recommend you read his links and do a good deal of fiddling around with classes before you choose one... I have yet to get passed the harbor and am loving every minute of it ^ ^. My one gripe is that alignment can bar you from certain class combos... My barbarian paladin idea was nixxed =/
ALL YOUR PLAYER BASE ARE BELONG TO KITTY!
Thaks alot for that post Sarr! Now I have alot of reading to do
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I would also suggest trying the character planners you can find on google to see how your skill points and skills will look at higher levels. This will let you know how viable you will be with any build you can imagine.
The actual answer is yes, if you don't mind being gimped.
There is plenty of fun to be had with character creation, and so on, but the way the game is, it doesn't cater to off the wall builds, more and more so in the end game. The person who responded above with the WF 18wiz/2rog idea is pretty much showcasing a great example, this is a great build, it has access to nice evasion, self healing, it can even tank a bit, but its really the end all of the discussion, and building this same build, with say human/elf or something gimps it, or if you added say, 2 more rog levels, or 2 more rog levels, and 2 ftr levels, and made it a sorc.
Taking into consideration what you wanted, a sorc/rog who used crossbows, not so much. You can surely surf in the lower levels like this, but really getting this character capped, gearing it out, and playin in the end game is a different story. I know that you may not mind the end game and so on, if so ignore my response, but the end game is the funnest part.
If not I would suggest looking on the forums and finding a build there, playing it threw, seeing how it pans out, then maybe trying to see how far you can push the limits and get what you want. Mainly I would suggest taking one character to the end before making another guy, just to get an idea of what you might want your character to be like considering the challenges it might face.
Either way, you should definitely play, its a great game.
A
The open ended customization of character creation in DDO is quite awesome. In fact, building characters it goes way beyond the attributes and class selections to actually incorporate equipment into the whole process. As weapons, armor and other wearables have stat-modifiers of some sort they will greatly influence the outcome of your character.
And to specifically answer your question about the Sorcerer, I play one which wears armor, carries a large shield and wields rapiers; the longbow I occasionaly use not only exhausts a target but also debuffs their spell resistence. This character has the full power of a Sorcerer without having making any sacrafices to obtain a high Armor Class which eliminates much concern that such a character should remain in the back.
One of the cool experiances with early progressin in DDO is coming across the many various items and enhancement which you can easily trade amongst friends.
I believe many new commers are going to be amazed that this game has been around for 3 years and they never knew about it. Going free to play was a very smart decision.
Thank you all for the input. I've been reading through the links you guys posted and found some really good information. Thanks again, I really appreciate it!
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
I may have the entire 1st edition Monster manual and Monster manual 2 close to memorized but I am not 100% up on all 3rd edition stuff. But i think its a safe bet that the Pit fiend boss has more HP than either of those. I mean he is at like 50,000 hp or so. The 1st edition tarasque was hard to kill due to regen and rebirth he didn't just have tons and tons of HP to burn through.
Also DDO red names do what other MMOs do and disable most effects. DDO bosses are just not really D&D. The normal stuff sure but the bosses become just like any other MMO. Its a shame really.
Edit: yeah according to a wiki the 3rd ed tarraque has about 850 hp. That means the Pit fiend has like 60 times the HP. I mean that is pretty ridiculous. We are talkin about a unique monster that destroys entire country sides and this boss has almost two order of magnitude more hp.
The open ended customization of character creation in DDO is quite awesome. In fact, building characters it goes way beyond the attributes and class selections to actually incorporate equipment into the whole process. As weapons, armor and other wearables have stat-modifiers of some sort they will greatly influence the outcome of your character.
And to specifically answer your question about the Sorcerer, I play one which wears armor, carries a large shield and wields rapiers; the longbow I occasionaly use not only exhausts a target but also debuffs their spell resistence. This character has the full power of a Sorcerer without having making any sacrafices to obtain a high Armor Class which eliminates much concern that such a character should remain in the back.
One of the cool experiances with early progressin in DDO is coming across the many various items and enhancement which you can easily trade amongst friends.
I believe many new commers are going to be amazed that this game has been around for 3 years and they never knew about it. Going free to play was a very smart decision.
Mind could you post or PM me your build. I like to play sorcs and have not been able to create one yet that I could fight well with at higher levels, but would like to have one I can solo with and not just rely on magic.
And to specifically answer your question about the Sorcerer, I play one which wears armor, carries a large shield and wields rapiers; the longbow I occasionaly use not only exhausts a target but also debuffs their spell resistence. This character has the full power of a Sorcerer without having making any sacrafices to obtain a high Armor Class which eliminates much concern that such a character should remain in the back.
One of the cool experiances with early progressin in DDO is coming across the many various items and enhancement which you can easily trade amongst friends.
Mind could you post or PM me your build. I like to play sorcs and have not been able to create one yet that I could fight well with at higher levels, but would like to have one I can solo with and not just rely on magic.
No prob Rok,
It's a 28 pt Elf Sorcerer that was made when the game launched and I knew nothing about D&D other then the old AD&D rules which DDO is *not* based on. That being said, the character's attribute points aren't anything "tricky" and the "build" kind of just fell into place. The most signifigant fact about the character is it is purely dependant upon the items, but everyone playing DDO probably already knows this.
(NOTE: this is *not* the best way to make a user friendly Sorcerer and it requires moderate to good twitch skills to do well with it as you've got to move around a bit.)
Max out Charisma, plan on a 24 Dexterity after tomes and a stat item (any higher and you'll be capped if attempting to wear armor), dump the rest into Constitution. As for skill points, I made some mistakes way-back-when and would benefit from a respecification if it were available. If I did it again I would still dump everything into UMD as its of great benefit to be able to use Heal Srolls (umd 40) without failure. The charcater as a 51AC unbuffed which isn't bad when a full ensemble of party buffs can push it into the mid 60's, on a pure caster!
But when it comes down to it, as said above, it's all about the items. Here's what I use, note that most are Bound items from various Raids:
(Helm) +6Charisma, +5 Concentration; (Trinket) Head of Good Fortune; (Necklace) Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II[+1 Saves alchemical bonus]; (Cloak) Stormreavers Napkin gives +1 DC to spells, also use a Regrowth clicky when needed; (Goggles) Greensteel Hitpoint item; (Gloves) Seven Fingered Gloves; (Bracers) t3 pos/pos/pos Greensteel item for Spellpoints and a Rez Clicky, after spell points are used I equip Choasgarde, I micro-manage clickies in the bracer slot and have 6 Divine Power bracers with 5 charges each; (Belt) +6 Constitution, 13 Spell Resistence; (ring 1) Chattering Ring; (Ring 2) Seal of the Earth; (Boots) +6 Dex, +5 Jump; (Armor) Dragon Touched Leather Armor +5 protection, +5 Resistence, Improved Glaciation [+1ac alchemical bouns];(Hands) Skiver & Fanion [+1ac alchemical bouns] {these two worn by default after shrining}, these are frequently changed based on what I'm doing as I'll equip items to enhance spell damage where needed or buff out my AC to land melee debuffs if it's of benefit. My primary weapons to debuff are either GS Rapier Radiance II (+4ac, 15% fire mitigation, blind proc on critical), Cursepewing Rapier of Destruction or Cursespewnig Rapier of Shattermantle; to debuff a ranged Boss I use a Strength Sapping Longbow of Shattermantle.
full spellpoints are 2300ish with 44ac. After I've cast enough spells to bring down the spellpoints I gradually switch to AC mode which pushes it to 51 and drops the max spellpoints to 1875; examples are as if unbuffed. When it's time to rest I go back into SpellMode. All this involves a bit of micromanagement with what items are being used and when.
Spell focus and Enhancement wise, the character is spec'd Fire/Ice and I mostly use Cone of Cold, Polar Ray, Wall of Fire and Scortching Ray for spell damage. Crowd control is used with Heithened (Metamagic Feat) Web, Hypnotic Pattern and Flesh to Stone. Defensive spells are Mass Protection from Elements, Displacement and Fireshield. I've spent 1 Feat into Light Armor Profecientcy. This is obviously not everything...
It would not be hard to make a better version of what I'm playing, but it's all about the playstyle which makes it a LOT of fun for me to play it.
And to specifically answer your question about the Sorcerer, I play one which wears armor, carries a large shield and wields rapiers; the longbow I occasionaly use not only exhausts a target but also debuffs their spell resistence. This character has the full power of a Sorcerer without having making any sacrafices to obtain a high Armor Class which eliminates much concern that such a character should remain in the back.
One of the cool experiances with early progressin in DDO is coming across the many various items and enhancement which you can easily trade amongst friends.
Mind could you post or PM me your build. I like to play sorcs and have not been able to create one yet that I could fight well with at higher levels, but would like to have one I can solo with and not just rely on magic.
No prob Rok,
It's a 28 pt Elf Sorcerer that was made when the game launched and I knew nothing about D&D other then the old AD&D rules which DDO is *not* based on. That being said, the character's attribute points aren't anything "tricky" and the "build" kind of just fell into place. The most signifigant fact about the character is it is purely dependant upon the items, but everyone playing DDO probably already knows this.
(NOTE: this is *not* the best way to make a user friendly Sorcerer and it requires moderate to good twitch skills to do well with it as you've got to move around a bit.)
Max out Charisma, plan on a 24 Dexterity after tomes and a stat item (any higher and you'll be capped if attempting to wear armor), dump the rest into Constitution. As for skill points, I made some mistakes way-back-when and would benefit from a respecification if it were available. If I did it again I would still dump everything into UMD as its of great benefit to be able to use Heal Srolls (umd 40) without failure. The charcater as a 51AC unbuffed which isn't bad when a full ensemble of party buffs can push it into the mid 60's, on a pure caster!
But when it comes down to it, as said above, it's all about the items. Here's what I use, note that most are Bound items from various Raids:
(Helm) +6Charisma, +5 Concentration; (Trinket) Head of Good Fortune; (Necklace) Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II[+1 Saves alchemical bonus]; (Cloak) Stormreavers Napkin gives +1 DC to spells, also use a Regrowth clicky when needed; (Goggles) Greensteel Hitpoint item; (Gloves) Seven Fingered Gloves; (Bracers) t3 pos/pos/pos Greensteel item for Spellpoints and a Rez Clicky, after spell points are used I equip Choasgarde, I micro-manage clickies in the bracer slot and have 6 Divine Power bracers with 5 charges each; (Belt) +6 Constitution, 13 Spell Resistence; (ring 1) Chattering Ring; (Ring 2) Seal of the Earth; (Boots) +6 Dex, +5 Jump; (Armor) Dragon Touched Leather Armor +5 protection, +5 Resistence, Improved Glaciation [+1ac alchemical bouns];(Hands) Skiver & Fanion [+1ac alchemical bouns] {these two worn by default after shrining}, these are frequently changed based on what I'm doing as I'll equip items to enhance spell damage where needed or buff out my AC to land melee debuffs if it's of benefit. My primary weapons to debuff are either GS Rapier Radiance II (+4ac, 15% fire mitigation, blind proc on critical), Cursepewing Rapier of Destruction or Cursespewnig Rapier of Shattermantle; to debuff a ranged Boss I use a Strength Sapping Longbow of Shattermantle.
full spellpoints are 2300ish with 44ac. After I've cast enough spells to bring down the spellpoints I gradually switch to AC mode which pushes it to 51 and drops the max spellpoints to 1875; examples are as if unbuffed. When it's time to rest I go back into SpellMode. All this involves a bit of micromanagement with what items are being used and when.
Spell focus and Enhancement wise, the character is spec'd Fire/Ice and I mostly use Cone of Cold, Polar Ray, Wall of Fire and Scortching Ray for spell damage. Crowd control is used with Heithened (Metamagic Feat) Web, Hypnotic Pattern and Flesh to Stone. Defensive spells are Mass Protection from Elements, Displacement and Fireshield. I've spent 1 Feat into Light Armor Profecientcy. This is obviously not everything...
It would not be hard to make a better version of what I'm playing, but it's all about the playstyle which makes it a LOT of fun for me to play it.
Just one question. Are you using weapons mainly to debuff or do you do a lot of regular fighting? I had a clogue(cleric/rogue) similar to your sorc in that he had a lot of debuff weapons and was a ton of fun to play. Unfortunately he was rolled before constitution became so important and his 175ish HPs make him a party wipe in waiting(one delay blast fireball and the cleric is a goner). Its ok if the low HP sorc or wiz die but the cleric being that soft is now a no-no.
I may have the entire 1st edition Monster manual and Monster manual 2 close to memorized but I am not 100% up on all 3rd edition stuff. But i think its a safe bet that the Pit fiend boss has more HP than either of those. I mean he is at like 50,000 hp or so. The 1st edition tarasque was hard to kill due to regen and rebirth he didn't just have tons and tons of HP to burn through.
Also DDO red names do what other MMOs do and disable most effects. DDO bosses are just not really D&D. The normal stuff sure but the bosses become just like any other MMO. Its a shame really.
Edit: yeah according to a wiki the 3rd ed tarraque has about 850 hp. That means the Pit fiend has like 60 times the HP. I mean that is pretty ridiculous. We are talkin about a unique monster that destroys entire country sides and this boss has almost two order of magnitude more hp.
Yeah, you're right ; ). I just always say "Tarrasque!" in such moments ;D.
Ok, HP are absolutely infalted. I agree. But after all. I ask one question: Why is that bad?
If monsters in DDO had HP of pen&paper monsters, it would play like Baldur's Gate like game. That's not fun for first-person or third person MMO to kill monsters as fast. I mean, yeah, DDO has it all changed up, inflated very high. But this is real time, action-oriented MMO.
D&D pnp is based on a VERY loose concept of 6-second rounds. And Ad&d 2nd Edition was based on... one minute rounds and turns which were 10 minutes long! Can you imagine? It works when you're storytelling, dividing everything to rounds and rolling actually 100% random initiative on d20 and in Ad&d - on d10. With modifiers of course. But having that in DDO would be pretty strange. Or, it would look like LotrO or WoW. No exactly round based - but imagine how would it look if players would need to wait for the start of next round before they attack and random initiative is rolled!
That's exactly like PnP game works.
And last but not least, there wouldn't be any such action-intense game as DDO is now, if Turbine took that popular route as WoW, with semi-round-like cooldowns.
It's easy to criticize DDO that it's not 100% D&D, but to think if that would make any sense is better. Anyway, I have yet to see a game 100% true to D&D. BG I and II or NwN series... weren't : ). Oh, ok, Dungeon Hack or Eye of the Beholder-like games... yeah, actions stopped in those when combat encounters began, so there was actual initiative rolled and then it went 100% Ad&d way probably. Not sure though, hehe. But those games were almost skill-free, not to mention how simple and oldish to present standards.
D&D pen and paper isn't an action game. It's "storytelling" game which involves acting (too big word probably) and 100% strategic combat. Now, it couldn't turn to a very fun MMO that way
. That wouldn't be even MMO by our present standards!
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Ahhh! Reading all these posts gets me all excited!
I cannot wait to play the mechanics out. My favorite aspect of every game is character customization, and DDO seems to have it in spades. There will be much time spent planning out a character that fits my feel.
Another thing I noticed, is (at least right now) the great community it seems to have. A lot of you folk on there are core AD&D players of the past too, and I hope you all keep playing. I will need help. To say the least haha.
Primarily Melee Debuffs. I can do melee damage although it's a trivial amount compared to proper melee character's dmg or damage from my own spells. The melee dmg that the character does is barely supplemental and the debuffs are more advantageous.
I rarely try to do melee dmg unless I'm goofing off or it's specifically asked of me. The *only* time I expect to do melee dmg is agasint Sulu for a slight bit of supplemental damage or when smashing Portals.
You can make-do with 175hp if it were an old build as there's a likely chance you could pick up an enhancement and some equipement which would easily bump it up to a more appreciable amount. I believe my Sorc has 220ish hitpoints completely unbuffed and without the Greensteel Hitpoint item; I do *not* have Toughness.
The Delayed Blast Fireball is never a concern to me as the character's Reflex Save is usually good enough to make the saving throw. I'm also normally buffed with Fireshield (cold and fire) and Protection from Elements, not to mention the likelyhood I'll be carrying the Radiance II I mentioned above. The DBF is also part of the reason why a lot of players like the Firestorm Greaves.
Come on Sarr stop with the kneejerk fanboy-ism. The fact is that 50,000 xp is hugely game changing. Are there reasons for it? Sure, but it is clearly not the way normal D&D works. Therefore it affects builds. As does the immunnity to almost everything. End of story.
Primarily Melee Debuffs. I can do melee damage although it's a trivial amount compared to proper melee character's dmg or damage from my own spells. The melee dmg that the character does is barely supplemental and the debuffs are more advantageous.
I rarely try to do melee dmg unless I'm goofing off or it's specifically asked of me. The *only* time I expect to do melee dmg is agasint Sulu for a slight bit of supplemental damage or when smashing Portals.
You can make-do with 175hp if it were an old build as there's a likely chance you could pick up an enhancement and some equipement which would easily bump it up to a more appreciable amount. I believe my Sorc has 220ish hitpoints completely unbuffed and without the Greensteel Hitpoint item; I do *not* have Toughness.
The Delayed Blast Fireball is never a concern to me as the character's Reflex Save is usually good enough to make the saving throw. I'm also normally buffed with Fireshield (cold and fire) and Protection from Elements, not to mention the likelyhood I'll be carrying the Radiance II I mentioned above. The DBF is also part of the reason why a lot of players like the Firestorm Greaves.
175 is me equipping and buffing him with enhancements. I made him when an 8 or 10 con was ok for a cleric. At the time though he could unlock and disarm any trap in the game. Of course he was built when Gianhold was endgame and before they made the one trap in there so hard to find.
He is a bank character and thats about his only function. I elveled him to 16 and he just was no longer viable at high end. Not really a surprise when you build for a specific groupd of quests to be end game knowing they will only be that for a limited time. One day I will get back around to building a new one since I have the 32 point builds now. I happened to have rolled a cleric when I went back and did not feel like doing them back to back. They get expensive for me since I run a cleric like he was a prepay healer.