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Sick of the same old classes....!
AKABoondock
Member Posts: 62
Honestly, I am so sick of tryin almost every mmo out there, only to have every one of them have the same 5 or 6 classes. Warrior, Archer, Mage, Priest, Assassin, blah, blah, blah! In this day and age in the MMO community, players are looking for NEW IDEAS. I understand how making a totally new groundbreaking MMO is a huge and terribly painstaking task, however, I do not think its hard for these new games to have different damn classes to choose from. Vanguard and Guild Wars were the only games I played (Vanguard for just a month, and GW for a couple different 2 month long sessions) that had truly unique class choices. Hell, give them the same type of abilities as all the other boring classes, but just call it something different and throw a new animation on it ffs. Why is that so hard?
/end rant
Comments
ild recommend trying some other forms of online gaming if rpgs arent doing it for you anymore
Champions ONline states they will have a classless system. That may be one to watch for. However, I think you ought to give a different theme MMO a go, like sci-fi. EvE Online is a game that is as far away from Warrior/Mage/Cleric as you can get
Good Luck
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I would give Fallen Earth a try when it is released. It doesn't have classes, it's skill-based, though it does have levels, and the best items are from crafting.
Earth Rise is another one to watch out for. It looks good from the screenshots/website I've browsed.
I really liked the way Warhammer did their classes - they were a lot of fun early on.
(i repeat *early on* before the flames
)
Yeah, I hear what you guys are saying. My problem is that the kind of games I am into are the games that have those sort of class systems. Those space MMOs and sci fi mmos dont do it for me (although I will def be checking out global agenda). Im just saying I wish new fantasy based games would offer a better variety of classes.
Unless you go with a skill based classless system there isn't going to be much deviation from these Archetypes.
Warhammer did a pretty good job of creating a more hybrid feel and playstyle to these archetypes and I just cannot see another developer taking it further in the future.
2 Words. Global Agenda
Even if you have a classless system, there will only be 5-6 competitive builds. I don't think inventing new ideas for classes is going to be a huge concern for investors. Hybrid classes have been done before, they usually end up super overpowered or very underpowered. Lineage 2 has over 30 different classes, some of these classes were extremely similar to others (3 assassin classes for example) but they covered all shades of what each of these classes could be. However it ended up in a point where Necromancers were overpowered for awhile and in the end half the players in the game were either a Treasure Hunter, Necromancer or a Hawkeye (assassin, Nuker/Summoner Hybrid, Archer). All humans, because they all recieved some of the best Dark Elven and Elven skills (aka Hybrid). Some of these classes were very unique but didn't have a role (Phantom Summoner) and others were designed simply to work the economy (Bounty Hunter, Warsmith).
It's really difficult to actually deviate from standard class ideas, even if you use a class-less system. If you look at UO chances are people had their character set up to be like a "rogue" or an "archer" or a "fighter". Hybrids are one thing too, sure, but even those can feel a lot like the same old. There just are not many ways you can make something into a hybrid too with it feeling useful and not being over or underpowered.
Needless to say it's just sort of something to go with in an RPG game. You're going to get the feeling of "same old" with certain archetypes, the key is how much fun they make each class to play.
I don't think just changing the name helps anyways, if anything it might just confuse your average consumer. It's probably better to have recognizable classes if you do go down that route (class based) rather then a bunch of unknown choices.
You do know that different games have different animations and different abilities, and some of them do have different names. Even if they do have the same name, what the hell does that matter? The names simply reflect their role in combat, and there are not that many roles no matter how much you mix them up.
If you are looking to stray away from class system, that is doable, but it still does not change the fact the classes exist. Developers simply don't tell you straight out, but they will limit on what you can and can't do, which playeres are still forced to spec in one way or another in order to achieve certain specialization, which is basically the same as classes and roles in combat. Most people that want class less are actually not facing reality and probably are better off player online mutlplayer action games that have customization. Alot of players jump into the genre wanting more customization, but they will not accept the core systems that maintain balance and community. Real evolution require first facing the facts, or just wait for others to do it for you.
There is room for more but how well the are balanced vs others is questionable.
Would these work?
Close range spell caster/Group Buffer
Backwards tank- Aggro/taunts mobs and if they attack him their damage output is greatly reduced.
A class that focuses on auras but can also put them on groupmates
Always felt DAOC did a decent job of creating multiple classes. Sure, you could argue that each realm had the same thing, but there was enough variety to make them all pretty interesting.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You do know that different games have different animations and different abilities, and some of them do have different names. Even if they do have the same name, what the hell does that matter? The names simply reflect their role in combat, and there are not that many roles no matter how much you mix them up.
If you are looking to stray away from class system, that is doable, but it still does not change the fact the classes exist. Developers simply don't tell you straight out, but they will limit on what you can and can't do, which playeres are still forced to spec in one way or another in order to achieve certain specialization, which is basically the same as classes and roles in combat. Most people that want class less are actually not facing reality and probably are better off player online mutlplayer action games that have customization. Alot of players jump into the genre wanting more customization, but they will not accept the core systems that maintain balance and community. Real evolution require first facing the facts, or just wait for others to do it for you.
Relax brotha....I certainly was not saying I WANT companies to just change the name or an animation....I was just saying that would be easy to do. I just mean I want more diversity....here are a few random examples of new classes there could be in a game, yah the names are probably terrible but thats not the point.
Soul Burner- Close range fire-magic damage dealer. Can suicide explode for massive aoe damage.
Shifter- Tank/support, has the ability once every 10 minutes to transform into the player's target's class (or certain mobs) for 20 seconds. Can shift hands into weapons including a large 2 handed shield.
Voider- Melee/Magic DPS, Shifts in and out of our plane of existence to damage enemies with dark magic. Imbues scythe with the power of killed enemies.
Alchemist- Healer/Support, creates potions that can be thrown to friendly players to heal or support them.
These are just a few stupid examples I came up with in 30 seconds, surely people smarter than me who actually do this stuff for a living could do better.
Yes that's pretty much it really. There's a limited set of core functions which end up as the archetypes and all you can really do is hybridize them in various proportions to create variety and suit individual taste e.g
Thief -> 1/3 melee, 2/3 stealth, Assasin -> 1/2 melee, 1/2 stealth, Barbarian -> 2/3 melee, 1/3 stealth
I prefer that variety though it's obviously much harder to balance.
When it comes to combat roles, it doesn't really matter if you change the names or not. The basic functions are the same. Damage/ Tank/ Heal/Support
If you're looking for a variety of skills , you will need to go to a skillbased game in which certain skills can give you more of a personal flavor but chances are they would be mostly viable in pve.
Still even then players tend to spec their character out a certain way. Well, at least in skill based games like UO that put a cap on what you can learn. I don't think skill based games have the same assortment of abilities that class based games can pull though, due to balancing problems.
me too.
I think you would need a mmorp game without combat if you want something that is not classbased in the way you describe it.
OR you base combat in a mmorp game on completely different peremesises. Take team sports for example. If you dont fill an entire mmorpg with innovatitive team sports suitable for that specific world to make a non combat based game you could build combat to funktion as a teamsport with different roles from there!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Liek o.O;; WTF!!
Still even then players tend to spec their character out a certain way. Well, at least in skill based games like UO that put a cap on what you can learn. I don't think skill based games have the same assortment of abilities that class based games can pull though, due to balancing problems.
Yea I agree with that here: When it comes to combat roles, it doesn't really matter if you change the names or not. The basic functions are the same. Damage/ Tank/ Heal/Support
But I think I could have been more clear, so please let me further explain.
There are ony a few roles to really play in combat and people are going to spec a certain way.
When I was talking about skills I guess I should have said Skills similar to Feats in DDO like picklock, swiimming, etc,,, that would have more usefulness in PvE encounters and dungeon crawls than pvp.
When it comes to combat roles, it doesn't really matter if you change the names or not. The basic functions are the same. Damage/ Tank/ Heal/Support
If you're looking for a variety of skills , you will need to go to a skillbased game in which certain skills can give you more of a personal flavor but chances are they would be mostly viable in pve.
^This. I thought the same thing. Before I was thinking... if you could make different types of classes... then what would you do? Most of these examples are HYBRIDS. You know Mages in WoW can conjure potions for others? Otherwise Alchemy is a common Tradeskill, not a classtype even then it does the same role of a healer except it seems more a pain in the ass.
Voider sounds like a stealth melee dps... OH RIGHT THATS AN ASSASSIN/ROGUE!
Shifter Sounds like a WoW Druid... you know the class that can shapeshift into a healer/tank/dps... 2 handed shield though... thats new. How many people would like to carry that around? Sounds like guard stances for tanks except they can't attack back... sounds like a punching bag.
The fire caster is simply like said a caster with the added effect of being short ranged and having abilities that kill himself. Sounds like a nerf compared to normal nukers.
I am aware that those classes I described would be virtually the same as the other classes. However, it was just meant to enforce what I meant by this post. I think everyone is misunderstanding me. I know the classes I listed would be close to already existing classes such as the ones you have described, but the point of this post was that I just want a change from the titles of Mage, Warrior, Ranger, etc.......Why not create some new inventive classes that albeit, uses the same mechanics of our usual DPS, TANK, HEALER classes. I guess I just havent been able to communicate this well enough.Some people above hit it head on when they mentioned Warhammer Online....I enjoyed the different classes the game had to offer.
Ya id like to see classes like postman, milkman, banker, wanker, bouncer, stripper.. and what have you? There's so many they could have! Why the same ol rouges and ranjahs.. meh
R.I.P Chikaca Whachuchu
That's why I'm playing Darkfall now, doesn't have any classes, you can do all with one character.
Not sure if Darkfall is the only one that doesn't have classes, but that is at least the kind of game that I'm looking for now, games that doesn't limit the gameplay by restricting what you can do.
But if you want agame with somewhat different classes I'd suggest Anarchy Online, which have slightly different classes, but you can customize them alot as to what theyu can do. Still think no classes with access to everything is better though.
People's roles in MMO combat typically consist of: Tank / healer / DPS / cc / Debuff / Buff. I can't really see that changing. So at that level you're stuck with classes.
However, that doesn't mean that there are certain assumptions made in MMOs regarding these roles. And maybe those assumptions are what the OP was complaining about - assumptions that put a pointless straight jacket on the roles.
For example, WoW has 4 different healer classes - but every single one of them heals from range
Vanguard broke with this, by making one of it's healers (the disciple) work from melee range, and build up some of his heals by hitting enemies.
Another example may be the LOTRO captain, which has very few direct parallels in any other game
What the OP is saying is that he'd like to see more games break from these hidden assumptions.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
there are really only so many classes you can make. can you add much more to what EQ2 has?
Berserker
Guardian
Paladin
Shadowknight
Brawler
Bruiser
Troubador
Dirge
Ranger
Assassin
Swashbuckler
Brigand
Fury
Warden
Templar
Inquisitor
Mystic
Defiler
Wizard
Warlock
Conjuror
Necromancer
Illusionist
Coercer