Originally posted by Abrahmm It's not that it is impossible, or that it costs them too much, or that they would lose money.
That's really the crux of it for me. It doesn't cost them anything, as most (if not all) of the art assets and programming required to enable extra outfits/fluff items/whatever has already been done.
They don't have a special RMT Fluff team devoting man hours to creating new content exclusively for micro-transactions. The content has already been developed and code inserted into the game, all they do is flip the switch when someone pays, so they're basically double-dipping on stuff that up until the last couple years, was freely included with patches.
The cat's out of the bag though, developers/producers are soiling themselves with glee that people are willing to pay. I don't necessarily blame them, but I won't be supporting the behavior. The flat fee sub price was one of the things I loved most about mmo's, you simply couldn't beat that entertainment value. This, coupled with all the DIKU retreads flooding the market, will compel me to seek out the indie titles or return to single player rpgs, which frankly are much better games anyway.
i went ahead and ordered it online from game stop and paid my $57. figured i might as well cut throught BS and get to the point.
The only BS here is Cryptic's.
One month from release and still this on their FAQ.
Q: Will a monthly fee be required to play?
A: We have not yet announced the pricing structure for the game.
get out of here troll
Green wasn't trolling there, but in Cryptic's defense, I don't know many game site that keep there FAQ section updated like they should... it kinda a bottom of the barrel thing on the priority list.
Unfortunately we're not just talking about an omission on their FAQ.
This is a question they've been dodging for months, and I daresay that it's a bit audacious to a) spring a completely new kind of payment model on your potential customers at the 11th hour and then b) refuse to give out any details on it while c) expecting people to pre-order.
When everything out of his mouth is negative it is. All he is doing is trolling. I have looked back through most of his posts and that pretty much all he does is troll. Plain and simple if your not gonna get the game leave. I already have green on my block because he is a troll. I would advise everyone else to do that also.
That is untrue - but if you really feel that way, by all means take that accusation for a forum moderator and see how you're dealt with.
What is true is that Cryptic have chosen to treat their potential customers with ball-breaking contempt. Make no mistake - I strongly object to the manner in which this company behaves.
Censoring threads on your forums where potential customers just want to know what the payment model is? BAD
Sending your employees into other mmos to recruit beta players. BAD
Trying to mix subscription and MTs? STUPID There are mmos which have separate subscription and freebie+MT versions and they successfully plug into both of those quite disparate markets.
This absurd mixture of subscription + MTs, and the accompanying efforts to bamboozle potential players into accepting it is what is commonly referred to as "pushing things too far".
It's perfectly natural for companies to dream up new and exciting ways of pumping more money out of their customers without actually delivering anything in return. But it's equally natural for we pumpees to turn around and beat them around the head when they push their luck.
I guess the next time I go pay that entrance fee at the night club I should tell them I want all my drinks, food and women for free too ? I'll spend money there in 1 day than an entire year sub to Champions Online. Real life, its here and nothing is for free even if you already paid for the admission.
No, but the next time you make an analogy you should punch your English Prof. Everyone knows whorehouses have women, nightclubs have drugs. It's not an issue of money, big spender, it's an issue of having common sense. I spend a lot of money on computer gaming a year, I've had my share of 50 buck coasters over the years, I see no reason I should support someone offering me less charging me more though. And please, don't do the stupid car analogy next, that's like calling someone a noob at this stage in the game...
Here is a bit of light reading for those still confused about what will be in the MT system on CO its also posted on this site as well just look it up.
Excerpt1 -Bill Roper :For us micro-transactions definitely are not the thrust of the business. I’ve seen a lot of people where… everybody in their head when they hear a term they don’t like automatically overlays the absolute worst case scenario on top of it, right? So I think that was something that we really tried to get across to people - and will continue to do so - that the game is not “based” on micro-transactions.
The idea is wanting to be able to have things there that players can get if they want to, but they don’t negatively impact the balance of the game. It’s not like we’re expecting players to go and purchase things through micro-transactions that then give them some huge leg up. All those things I think people get worried about, but really the focus is on having things that are fun, cosmetic or are things that are more account-wide and maintenance based.
And for those worried that you have to pay for all the nice stuff.
Excerpt 2 Bill Roper :The thing is there will be a lot of things we’ll never micro-transact. And one of the things we put out there – less because it’s planned, and more because it’s making sure people understood it – was the fact that if we were to ever put anything out that did have a game effect, there would be a way to earn it. I think that’s really important.
If there was some item that had an effect in-game that would give you - I’m going to make something up, so this is not an item in-game or anything – so something that gave you maybe an increased energy regeneration rate or something along those lines, there would be a way for you to get that in the game. I think that the biggest thing though, with the items that people are going to get though micro-transactions there will be some things where maybe that will be the only way you can get them yet none of them are things where you might say, “man, I can’t believe I didn’t get that” whereas there’s tons and tons and tons and tons more things that you can only get by playing the game.
Conclusion - As of right now . i dont see any justification for any fears about the MT in CO. That may change, if it does I and others who dislike those changes will ultimately vote with our wallets. I am sure Cryptic and Atari are aware of that.
Being worried about what could happen posssibly at some point in the game will rob you of having a good time now. At least thats how I see it.
For those talking about the RMT. It's easy...just don't buy any of the fluff items on there. Problem solved.
Hope to see a lot of you in-game.
I think I'm gonna go with, "just don't buy the game." I'll wait and see. If the MT store is in full effect, I'll pass. Roper going there took it off my "must buy first day omfg" list. The MT thing has insured I'll lurk until they prove otherwise. Hope it's fun and you enjoy it.
Here is a bit of light reading for those still confused about what will be in the MT system on CO its also posted on this site as well just look it up.
Excerpt1 -Bill Roper :For us micro-transactions definitely are not the thrust of the business. (They created this business model to not make money?) I’ve seen a lot of people where… everybody in their head when they hear a term they don’t like automatically overlays the absolute worst case scenario on top of it, right? So I think that was something that we really tried to get across to people - and will continue to do so - that the game is not “based” on micro-transactions. (Yeah, I'm all soothed now Roper, good thing you got me straight on this! here I was thinking it was just a way for you to milk more cash from us, oh wait you never refuted that...)
The idea is wanting to be able to have things there that players can get if they want (WANT being key, not average things or silly costumes.) to, but they don’t negatively impact the balance of the game. It’s not like we’re expecting players to go and purchase things through micro-transactions that then give them some huge leg up. (Just a minor leg up?) All those things I think people get worried about, but really the focus is on having things that are fun, cosmetic or are things that are more account-wide and maintenance based.
And for those worried that you have to pay for all the nice stuff.
Excerpt 2 Bill Roper :The thing is there will be a lot of things we’ll never micro-transact. And one of the things we put out there – less because it’s planned, and more because it’s making sure people understood it – was the fact that if we were to ever put anything out that did have a game effect, there would be a way to earn it. (So let me get this straight, you won't effect game balance but if you ever did...you have an escape clause?) I think that’s really important. (And by "that" he means making more money.)
If there was some item that had an effect in-game that would give you - I’m going to make something up, so this is not an item in-game or anything – so something that gave you maybe an increased energy regeneration rate or something along those lines, there would be a way for you to get that in the game. I think that the biggest thing though, with the items that people are going to get though micro-transactions there will be some things where maybe that will be the only way you can get them yet none of them are things where you might say, “man, I can’t believe I didn’t get that” (WTB EPIX!!!) whereas there’s tons and tons and tons and tons more things that you can only get by playing the game.
Conclusion - As of right now . i dont see any justification for any fears about the MT in CO. That may change, if it does I and others who dislike those changes will ultimately vote with our wallets. I am sure Cryptic and Atari are aware of that. Being worried about what could happen posssibly at some point in the game will rob you of having a good time now. At least thats how I see it.
carry on...ppl
I think you're doing it wrong. People do not 'fear" the MT store, we do not need some voice of reason to sooth our frayed nerves. Your post does not make you the beacon of light and truth we sought. The fact of the matter is, we think it's beyond the pale, they're just too damn greedy. Balance, could care less, the fact the MT store was developed prior to the game is what causes most people to pause. it is happening if it exists, you're paying extra for CONTENT in a game you pay monthly for CONTENT.
Capes, little wings, giant dongs, you name it they coolest selection will be in the MT store. Fine, you don't care what your toon looks like, some people do. In a game where you basically make your look and it's there for good that is your identity, it's a major part of super hero mythos and creation...well if you don't see where this is going all I can say is; "OH NOES U R HER 2 HALP THNX 2 U I AM NO FEARFL MT STOAR." That way I get to mock you and you get to feel smug, we're both happy but no closer to agreement.
*Red are comments I inserted, not the OP of the quoted text. Adding that in case someone thinks otherwise, he cited it in good faith, I'm the one who mocked Billy.
Just pre ordered 2 copies for my wife and I. Looking forward to it. Is there a code for the 17th or is it just first come first serve. If there is I need to phone EB Games pronto.
I wanted to order from Amazon because I have an account there, but the pre order goodies weren't the same. No flight, no wings, just a cap, a bandolier and helm. Bummer!
Anyone know if there are other places to order or is Gamestop the best?
I'm kind of interested in this game (and Aion) as imminent releases. However, I don't care for MT's in games and I haven't heard how much the subscription is going to cost. If the subscription costs $15 and it has exclusive mall items, I'm going to get annoyed. If it's $10/month and has exclusive mall items, I figure that gives me $5/month to spend in the mall (on average).
So, I haven't pre-ordered because I'm not completely sold on the game.
I really hope you all play the game in beta and enjoy it... but go into it without expectations. Thats really all I'm going to say on that matter.
Aside from that.. microtransactions... will they be game breaking? For casual players.. probably not.. for competetive players... maybe.... items will have stats.. any items with stats will be game changing, nomatter if you can earn them in game or not. If I can get an item with fantastic stats on a drop, but the drop is 1/100 times... the chances of me getting it are minimal in comparison with the player that pays his 3 dollars extra for his item. What about the set bonus? Well it could cost 8 bucks for the set, or I could spend a couple weeks of repetetive gameplay to complete it. Cryptic will win either way.
Hey, noone knows at this point what the MTs will be exactly... and as much as I like cryptic.. what they say, and what they produce are two different things.
Aside from that.. microtransactions... will they be game breaking? For casual players.. probably not.. for competetive players... maybe.... items will have stats.. any items with stats will be game changing, nomatter if you can earn them in game or not. If I can get an item with fantastic stats on a drop, but the drop is 1/100 times... the chances of me getting it are minimal in comparison with the player that pays his 3 dollars extra for his item. What about the set bonus? Well it could cost 8 bucks for the set, or I could spend a couple weeks of repetetive gameplay to complete it. Cryptic will win either way.
I don't they are going to put many MT items that have in-games effects. It mostly going to costume pieces with no stats.
I still think this stuff shouldn't be sold VIA MTs but I said my peace on that already.
Anyway the best to explain what I think they mean by items that give you an in-game effect is like the Pre-order thing where you get to fly at start, instead of at level 5.
I think I'm gonna go with, "just don't buy the game." I'll wait and see. If the MT store is in full effect, I'll pass. Roper going there took it off my "must buy first day omfg" list. The MT thing has insured I'll lurk until they prove otherwise. Hope it's fun and you enjoy it.
Yeah - I've spent the past few years with the absolute certainty that I'd play this game when it came out.
Until I read about the microtransactions.
Now I wouldn't even bother downloading it as a free trial.
I ended up pre-ordering Aion instead. There's not much new there, but I enjoyed the first closed-beta weekend and there's a few other mmos with potential coming out soon.
I ordered at gamestop online and had the shipment sent to my local shop. I'll get the pre-order codes via email and nothing is billed to me until I go to the shop and physically pick it up.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Going to order from Best Buy. Figure I will get more use out of the pet and damage resist than I would from the travel power(since you get a travel power at level five) and the wings.
Aside from that.. microtransactions... will they be game breaking? For casual players.. probably not.. for competetive players... maybe.... items will have stats.. any items with stats will be game changing, nomatter if you can earn them in game or not. If I can get an item with fantastic stats on a drop, but the drop is 1/100 times... the chances of me getting it are minimal in comparison with the player that pays his 3 dollars extra for his item. What about the set bonus? Well it could cost 8 bucks for the set, or I could spend a couple weeks of repetetive gameplay to complete it. Cryptic will win either way.
I don't they are going to put many MT items that have in-games effects. It mostly going to costume pieces with no stats.
I still think this stuff shouldn't be sold VIA MTs but I said my peace on that already.
Anyway the best to explain what I think they mean by items that give you an in-game effect is like the Pre-order thing where you get to fly at start, instead of at level 5.
Hardly gamebreaking.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but what you think and what they do will be two different things.. that much I know. Right now though there are other items that are gamebreaking MTs are the least of their worries.
Comments
That's really the crux of it for me. It doesn't cost them anything, as most (if not all) of the art assets and programming required to enable extra outfits/fluff items/whatever has already been done.
They don't have a special RMT Fluff team devoting man hours to creating new content exclusively for micro-transactions. The content has already been developed and code inserted into the game, all they do is flip the switch when someone pays, so they're basically double-dipping on stuff that up until the last couple years, was freely included with patches.
The cat's out of the bag though, developers/producers are soiling themselves with glee that people are willing to pay. I don't necessarily blame them, but I won't be supporting the behavior. The flat fee sub price was one of the things I loved most about mmo's, you simply couldn't beat that entertainment value. This, coupled with all the DIKU retreads flooding the market, will compel me to seek out the indie titles or return to single player rpgs, which frankly are much better games anyway.
/shrug
Where I live every cellphone and ISP companies works that way, there is no way around that.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
The only BS here is Cryptic's.
One month from release and still this on their FAQ.
Q: Will a monthly fee be required to play?
A: We have not yet announced the pricing structure for the game.
get out of here troll
Green wasn't trolling there, but in Cryptic's defense, I don't know many game site that keep there FAQ section updated like they should... it kinda a bottom of the barrel thing on the priority list.
Unfortunately we're not just talking about an omission on their FAQ.
This is a question they've been dodging for months, and I daresay that it's a bit audacious to a) spring a completely new kind of payment model on your potential customers at the 11th hour and then b) refuse to give out any details on it while c) expecting people to pre-order.
That is untrue - but if you really feel that way, by all means take that accusation for a forum moderator and see how you're dealt with.
What is true is that Cryptic have chosen to treat their potential customers with ball-breaking contempt. Make no mistake - I strongly object to the manner in which this company behaves.
Censoring threads on your forums where potential customers just want to know what the payment model is? BAD
Sending your employees into other mmos to recruit beta players. BAD
Trying to mix subscription and MTs? STUPID There are mmos which have separate subscription and freebie+MT versions and they successfully plug into both of those quite disparate markets.
This absurd mixture of subscription + MTs, and the accompanying efforts to bamboozle potential players into accepting it is what is commonly referred to as "pushing things too far".
It's perfectly natural for companies to dream up new and exciting ways of pumping more money out of their customers without actually delivering anything in return. But it's equally natural for we pumpees to turn around and beat them around the head when they push their luck.
No, but the next time you make an analogy you should punch your English Prof. Everyone knows whorehouses have women, nightclubs have drugs. It's not an issue of money, big spender, it's an issue of having common sense. I spend a lot of money on computer gaming a year, I've had my share of 50 buck coasters over the years, I see no reason I should support someone offering me less charging me more though. And please, don't do the stupid car analogy next, that's like calling someone a noob at this stage in the game...
dont forget august 17 for the open beta.
I'm actually getting a beta key Aug 1st because of the gamerzines.com promotion.
Aug 1-5th. They weren't clear on when we'd be recieving our keys. Still, see you guys in game.
Also to the person saying we pay extra for cable, cell phones, blah blah blah aplogist crap...
I pay a flat fee for my internet. And that's how it SHOULD be.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Pre-ordering from Gamestop....can't wait.
For those talking about the RMT. It's easy...just don't buy any of the fluff items on there. Problem solved.
Hope to see a lot of you in-game.
Here is a bit of light reading for those still confused about what will be in the MT system on CO its also posted on this site as well just look it up.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/71536
Excerpt1 -Bill Roper : For us micro-transactions definitely are not the thrust of the business. I’ve seen a lot of people where… everybody in their head when they hear a term they don’t like automatically overlays the absolute worst case scenario on top of it, right? So I think that was something that we really tried to get across to people - and will continue to do so - that the game is not “based” on micro-transactions.
The idea is wanting to be able to have things there that players can get if they want to, but they don’t negatively impact the balance of the game. It’s not like we’re expecting players to go and purchase things through micro-transactions that then give them some huge leg up. All those things I think people get worried about, but really the focus is on having things that are fun, cosmetic or are things that are more account-wide and maintenance based.
And for those worried that you have to pay for all the nice stuff.
Excerpt 2 Bill Roper : The thing is there will be a lot of things we’ll never micro-transact. And one of the things we put out there – less because it’s planned, and more because it’s making sure people understood it – was the fact that if we were to ever put anything out that did have a game effect, there would be a way to earn it. I think that’s really important.
If there was some item that had an effect in-game that would give you - I’m going to make something up, so this is not an item in-game or anything – so something that gave you maybe an increased energy regeneration rate or something along those lines, there would be a way for you to get that in the game. I think that the biggest thing though, with the items that people are going to get though micro-transactions there will be some things where maybe that will be the only way you can get them yet none of them are things where you might say, “man, I can’t believe I didn’t get that” whereas there’s tons and tons and tons and tons more things that you can only get by playing the game.
Conclusion - As of right now . i dont see any justification for any fears about the MT in CO. That may change, if it does I and others who dislike those changes will ultimately vote with our wallets. I am sure Cryptic and Atari are aware of that.
Being worried about what could happen posssibly at some point in the game will rob you of having a good time now. At least thats how I see it.
carry on...ppl
I think I'm gonna go with, "just don't buy the game." I'll wait and see. If the MT store is in full effect, I'll pass. Roper going there took it off my "must buy first day omfg" list. The MT thing has insured I'll lurk until they prove otherwise. Hope it's fun and you enjoy it.
I think you're doing it wrong. People do not 'fear" the MT store, we do not need some voice of reason to sooth our frayed nerves. Your post does not make you the beacon of light and truth we sought. The fact of the matter is, we think it's beyond the pale, they're just too damn greedy. Balance, could care less, the fact the MT store was developed prior to the game is what causes most people to pause. it is happening if it exists, you're paying extra for CONTENT in a game you pay monthly for CONTENT.
Capes, little wings, giant dongs, you name it they coolest selection will be in the MT store. Fine, you don't care what your toon looks like, some people do. In a game where you basically make your look and it's there for good that is your identity, it's a major part of super hero mythos and creation...well if you don't see where this is going all I can say is; "OH NOES U R HER 2 HALP THNX 2 U I AM NO FEARFL MT STOAR." That way I get to mock you and you get to feel smug, we're both happy but no closer to agreement.
*Red are comments I inserted, not the OP of the quoted text. Adding that in case someone thinks otherwise, he cited it in good faith, I'm the one who mocked Billy.
Just pre ordered 2 copies for my wife and I. Looking forward to it. Is there a code for the 17th or is it just first come first serve. If there is I need to phone EB Games pronto.
I wanted to order from Amazon because I have an account there, but the pre order goodies weren't the same. No flight, no wings, just a cap, a bandolier and helm. Bummer!
Anyone know if there are other places to order or is Gamestop the best?
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
I'm kind of interested in this game (and Aion) as imminent releases. However, I don't care for MT's in games and I haven't heard how much the subscription is going to cost. If the subscription costs $15 and it has exclusive mall items, I'm going to get annoyed. If it's $10/month and has exclusive mall items, I figure that gives me $5/month to spend in the mall (on average).
So, I haven't pre-ordered because I'm not completely sold on the game.
so...
GameStop baby! Just paid in full today!
I really hope you all play the game in beta and enjoy it... but go into it without expectations. Thats really all I'm going to say on that matter.
Aside from that.. microtransactions... will they be game breaking? For casual players.. probably not.. for competetive players... maybe.... items will have stats.. any items with stats will be game changing, nomatter if you can earn them in game or not. If I can get an item with fantastic stats on a drop, but the drop is 1/100 times... the chances of me getting it are minimal in comparison with the player that pays his 3 dollars extra for his item. What about the set bonus? Well it could cost 8 bucks for the set, or I could spend a couple weeks of repetetive gameplay to complete it. Cryptic will win either way.
Hey, noone knows at this point what the MTs will be exactly... and as much as I like cryptic.. what they say, and what they produce are two different things.
I don't they are going to put many MT items that have in-games effects. It mostly going to costume pieces with no stats.
I still think this stuff shouldn't be sold VIA MTs but I said my peace on that already.
Anyway the best to explain what I think they mean by items that give you an in-game effect is like the Pre-order thing where you get to fly at start, instead of at level 5.
Hardly gamebreaking.
Yeah - I've spent the past few years with the absolute certainty that I'd play this game when it came out.
Until I read about the microtransactions.
Now I wouldn't even bother downloading it as a free trial.
I ended up pre-ordering Aion instead. There's not much new there, but I enjoyed the first closed-beta weekend and there's a few other mmos with potential coming out soon.
I ordered at gamestop online and had the shipment sent to my local shop. I'll get the pre-order codes via email and nothing is billed to me until I go to the shop and physically pick it up.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Going to order from Best Buy. Figure I will get more use out of the pet and damage resist than I would from the travel power(since you get a travel power at level five) and the wings.
I don't they are going to put many MT items that have in-games effects. It mostly going to costume pieces with no stats.
I still think this stuff shouldn't be sold VIA MTs but I said my peace on that already.
Anyway the best to explain what I think they mean by items that give you an in-game effect is like the Pre-order thing where you get to fly at start, instead of at level 5.
Hardly gamebreaking.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but what you think and what they do will be two different things.. that much I know. Right now though there are other items that are gamebreaking MTs are the least of their worries.
I am surprised there is no Collectors Edition announced yet for this game. You would think they could broker a deal with Hero Games.