Guess my point being I personally think any combo can work well as long as your other party members are more open minded to odd/new/challenging ways to approche a situation. And im not saying any of you are not open minded,im just making a general statement
Its my personall beleif that your wrong here. FFXI was very strict on job roles, if you tried to deviate from your jobs role you were going to be worthelss in an endgame type setting. Like I said you could do w/e worked for you on solo play, but that success you may have there will not translate to success in end game with your off the wall combo.
The sub job system was meant to complement your main job not to make you a DD mage.
Thats why I want the Job system fixed First.
The only thing i hated about FFXI is the Jobs arent even close to Equel. In this area you need a Blm. A RDM, Sumener, Thief, Dark night, Ranger, Dragoon ect ect Cant be taken with the same effect as a Blm. Insert every major class or Job in here.
Cant leave W/O a Whm or 2 Rdm, later its cant leave W/O WAR, No other tank will work. gata be a war.
They need to fallow Vamguards Model and make it 4 areas. tank, heal, mele dps, and range dps.
Or better yet. No real classes Just skills.... But i dont think im that lucky.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
If every job was "equal" there would be almost no reason to party. The area you're in only matters as much as the mobs you fight. You're obviously not going to fight magical creatures with an all-melee crew or vice-versa unless of course you're doing a manaburn or stun-spamming party, but those aren't spur of the moment things.
What I'm hearing (by all means correct me if I'm wrong) is that be "equal" you want all mages and melee to have identical skills with nothing but graphics setting them apart, or a white mage to be able to melee on the same level as a warrior. Because how you would even begin compare the nature of a black mage to that of a ranger or dragoon is beyond me...
Each job fills a role, and the player of that job is depended on to fulfill that role. If a summoner used a sword their talents as a summoner is wasted. No matter what you choose you will have certain weaknesses. Accept that. In different areas you need a different combination certain jobs. Accept that. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that a party might get along just as fine without you, the better. If you want to argue that your "character" has his own style I'll retort that my "character" doesn't like it.
If a character doesn't have a role, then it's not a Role Playing Game.
I think they should keep the job system. I would like to see something added, like the Materia system from FFVII or even the Sphere Junction system from FFX, as a way to introduce more variety between players characters.
I was thinking that would be awesome, too... Something akin to the Sphere Grid from X or License Board from XII, etc. etc. Some way to *really* give players the ability to fine-tune and customize their characters. In terms of a license board or sphere grid, though, there should be some way to "buy back" points or whatever the equivalent is that's used to expand on a given skill.
That would allow for a much less linear and more "lateral" versatility. Something less like a "skill tree" and more like a "skill web"
I really hope they have something in the same spirit as those in XIV.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Guess my point being I personally think any combo can work well as long as your other party members are more open minded to odd/new/challenging ways to approche a situation. And im not saying any of you are not open minded,im just making a general statement
Its my personall beleif that your wrong here. FFXI was very strict on job roles, if you tried to deviate from your jobs role you were going to be worthelss in an endgame type setting. Like I said you could do w/e worked for you on solo play, but that success you may have there will not translate to success in end game with your off the wall combo.
The sub job system was meant to complement your main job not to make you a DD mage.
Thats why I want the Job system fixed First.
The only thing i hated about FFXI is the Jobs arent even close to Equel. In this area you need a Blm. A RDM, Sumener, Thief, Dark night, Ranger, Dragoon ect ect Cant be taken with the same effect as a Blm. Insert every major class or Job in here.
Cant leave W/O a Whm or 2 Rdm, later its cant leave W/O WAR, No other tank will work. gata be a war.
They need to fallow Vamguards Model and make it 4 areas. tank, heal, mele dps, and range dps.
Or better yet. No real classes Just skills.... But i dont think im that lucky.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
If every job was "equal" there would be almost no reason to party. The area you're in only matters as much as the mobs you fight. You're obviously not going to fight magical creatures with an all-melee crew or vice-versa unless of course you're doing a manaburn or stun-spamming party, but those aren't spur of the moment things.
What I'm hearing (by all means correct me if I'm wrong) is that be "equal" you want all mages and melee to have identical skills with nothing but graphics setting them apart, or a white mage to be able to melee on the same level as a warrior. Because how you would even begin compare the nature of a black mage to that of a ranger or dragoon is beyond me...
Each job fills a role, and the player of that job is depended on to fulfill that role. If a summoner used a sword their talents as a summoner is wasted. No matter what you choose you will have certain weaknesses. Accept that. In different areas you need a different combination certain jobs. Accept that. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that a party might get along just as fine without you, the better. If you want to argue that your "character" has his own style I'll retort that my "character" doesn't like it.
If a character doesn't have a role, then it's not a Role Playing Game.
You have clearly never played Vanguard...
Each party member haveing a role is fine and dandy. But if you cant get a party because your useless (in a given area) then your screwed.
There were far to many areas in FFXI where some jobs were useless. If you really played the game you would know this.
Now maby they have fixed it. But lots of Jobs were Incapable of getting a job is certin areas unless they needed to fill that last spot in a Otherwise Perfect party.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
I disagree with that. I played FFXI for a long time and always saw well rounded groups with different jobs. There was more job discrimination in games like Guild Wars.
SE has a chance to fix some of the most common complaints to the game and thus will mostlikley be better than ffxi... so any critizism in the aspect is very unfounded.
You have clearly never played Vanguard... Each party member haveing a role is fine and dandy. But if you cant get a party because your useless (in a given area) then your screwed. There were far to many areas in FFXI where some jobs were useless. If you really played the game you would know this. Now maby they have fixed it. But lots of Jobs were Incapable of getting a job is certin areas unless they needed to fill that last spot in a Otherwise Perfect party.
No, I haven't played Vanguard. And I probably never will. See, I have this thing where I only play good games (I'm kidding so don't jump down my throat for that).
Whether you mean useless in geographical areas or useless in development areas, there's a perfectly resonable explanation as to why. I might not know them, but I'm sure a more seasoned veteran of XI could enlighten you.
I never saw the need for MOST jobs, to be honest. It's the players that impose those rules. If your job was useless to "otherwise perfect" parties, why not take initiative and start a party of your own? Almost every job can be replaced with another as long as they know how to play it. I heard a lot of bitching about how WHM and BLM no longer get invites because of SCH but it never so much as slowed me down for either role. Each job has its perks just like some are more dependable than others.
It's ultimately on the leader. What mattered was how the party leader felt about the weight and balance of that perk vs. reliability. I remember lots of parties where players suggested "fill-ins" and the leaders declined because of something or another. I myself will never invite a stranger Taru-PLD into my party. Baaad experience...
You have clearly never played Vanguard... Each party member haveing a role is fine and dandy. But if you cant get a party because your useless (in a given area) then your screwed. There were far to many areas in FFXI where some jobs were useless. If you really played the game you would know this. Now maby they have fixed it. But lots of Jobs were Incapable of getting a job is certin areas unless they needed to fill that last spot in a Otherwise Perfect party.
No, I haven't played Vanguard. And I probably never will. See, I have this thing where I only play good games (I'm kidding so don't jump down my throat for that).
Whether you mean useless in geographical areas or useless in development areas, there's a perfectly resonable explanation as to why. I might not know them, but I'm sure a more seasoned veteran of XI could enlighten you.
I never saw the need for MOST jobs, to be honest. It's the players that impose those rules. If your job was useless to "otherwise perfect" parties, why not take initiative and start a party of your own? Almost every job can be replaced with another as long as they know how to play it. I heard a lot of bitching about how WHM and BLM no longer get invites because of SCH but it never so much as slowed me down for either role. Each job has its perks just like some are more dependable than others.
It's ultimately on the leader. What mattered was how the party leader felt about the weight and balance of that perk vs. reliability. I remember lots of parties where players suggested "fill-ins" and the leaders declined because of something or another. I myself will never invite a stranger Taru-PLD into my party. Baaad experience...
Lol to each his own. But The best PLD i ever grouped with was a Taru-Pld-Whm. In the 4 hours we were in a group together I healed him 4 times, He never lost agro, and we Wiped once due to a train.
Some of these jobs require skill to play. You cant just walk blindly into them.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
Yeah I loved the Job system of FFXI but like some said when a party wants you to change jobs else your out it's limiting the effectiveness of the system. I used a few times sam/thf and I liked the build but people keep on telling you you will dps more if you use war as sub or stuff like that, ok you may be right but the damage you get with sam/thf is not bad and since your in a party I can use some of the best skills thieves have so till I can deal decent damage I don't see any problem if I use a build I like.
Also I'd like if they give a little boost for thiefs it's very hard to lvl them but mostly beast mastery when you share exp with your temporary tamed monster and without using a tamed monster you would lower a lot of your damage.
Comments
Its my personall beleif that your wrong here. FFXI was very strict on job roles, if you tried to deviate from your jobs role you were going to be worthelss in an endgame type setting. Like I said you could do w/e worked for you on solo play, but that success you may have there will not translate to success in end game with your off the wall combo.
The sub job system was meant to complement your main job not to make you a DD mage.
Thats why I want the Job system fixed First.
The only thing i hated about FFXI is the Jobs arent even close to Equel. In this area you need a Blm. A RDM, Sumener, Thief, Dark night, Ranger, Dragoon ect ect Cant be taken with the same effect as a Blm. Insert every major class or Job in here.
Cant leave W/O a Whm or 2 Rdm, later its cant leave W/O WAR, No other tank will work. gata be a war.
They need to fallow Vamguards Model and make it 4 areas. tank, heal, mele dps, and range dps.
Or better yet. No real classes Just skills.... But i dont think im that lucky.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
If every job was "equal" there would be almost no reason to party. The area you're in only matters as much as the mobs you fight. You're obviously not going to fight magical creatures with an all-melee crew or vice-versa unless of course you're doing a manaburn or stun-spamming party, but those aren't spur of the moment things.
What I'm hearing (by all means correct me if I'm wrong) is that be "equal" you want all mages and melee to have identical skills with nothing but graphics setting them apart, or a white mage to be able to melee on the same level as a warrior. Because how you would even begin compare the nature of a black mage to that of a ranger or dragoon is beyond me...
Each job fills a role, and the player of that job is depended on to fulfill that role. If a summoner used a sword their talents as a summoner is wasted. No matter what you choose you will have certain weaknesses. Accept that. In different areas you need a different combination certain jobs. Accept that. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that a party might get along just as fine without you, the better. If you want to argue that your "character" has his own style I'll retort that my "character" doesn't like it.
If a character doesn't have a role, then it's not a Role Playing Game.
Abraxas [365]
I was thinking that would be awesome, too... Something akin to the Sphere Grid from X or License Board from XII, etc. etc. Some way to *really* give players the ability to fine-tune and customize their characters. In terms of a license board or sphere grid, though, there should be some way to "buy back" points or whatever the equivalent is that's used to expand on a given skill.
That would allow for a much less linear and more "lateral" versatility. Something less like a "skill tree" and more like a "skill web"
I really hope they have something in the same spirit as those in XIV.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Its my personall beleif that your wrong here. FFXI was very strict on job roles, if you tried to deviate from your jobs role you were going to be worthelss in an endgame type setting. Like I said you could do w/e worked for you on solo play, but that success you may have there will not translate to success in end game with your off the wall combo.
The sub job system was meant to complement your main job not to make you a DD mage.
Thats why I want the Job system fixed First.
The only thing i hated about FFXI is the Jobs arent even close to Equel. In this area you need a Blm. A RDM, Sumener, Thief, Dark night, Ranger, Dragoon ect ect Cant be taken with the same effect as a Blm. Insert every major class or Job in here.
Cant leave W/O a Whm or 2 Rdm, later its cant leave W/O WAR, No other tank will work. gata be a war.
They need to fallow Vamguards Model and make it 4 areas. tank, heal, mele dps, and range dps.
Or better yet. No real classes Just skills.... But i dont think im that lucky.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
If every job was "equal" there would be almost no reason to party. The area you're in only matters as much as the mobs you fight. You're obviously not going to fight magical creatures with an all-melee crew or vice-versa unless of course you're doing a manaburn or stun-spamming party, but those aren't spur of the moment things.
What I'm hearing (by all means correct me if I'm wrong) is that be "equal" you want all mages and melee to have identical skills with nothing but graphics setting them apart, or a white mage to be able to melee on the same level as a warrior. Because how you would even begin compare the nature of a black mage to that of a ranger or dragoon is beyond me...
Each job fills a role, and the player of that job is depended on to fulfill that role. If a summoner used a sword their talents as a summoner is wasted. No matter what you choose you will have certain weaknesses. Accept that. In different areas you need a different combination certain jobs. Accept that. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that a party might get along just as fine without you, the better. If you want to argue that your "character" has his own style I'll retort that my "character" doesn't like it.
If a character doesn't have a role, then it's not a Role Playing Game.
You have clearly never played Vanguard...
Each party member haveing a role is fine and dandy. But if you cant get a party because your useless (in a given area) then your screwed.
There were far to many areas in FFXI where some jobs were useless. If you really played the game you would know this.
Now maby they have fixed it. But lots of Jobs were Incapable of getting a job is certin areas unless they needed to fill that last spot in a Otherwise Perfect party.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
I disagree with that. I played FFXI for a long time and always saw well rounded groups with different jobs. There was more job discrimination in games like Guild Wars.
SE has a chance to fix some of the most common complaints to the game and thus will mostlikley be better than ffxi... so any critizism in the aspect is very unfounded.
So far everything sounds very good to me.
No, I haven't played Vanguard. And I probably never will. See, I have this thing where I only play good games (I'm kidding so don't jump down my throat for that).
Whether you mean useless in geographical areas or useless in development areas, there's a perfectly resonable explanation as to why. I might not know them, but I'm sure a more seasoned veteran of XI could enlighten you.
I never saw the need for MOST jobs, to be honest. It's the players that impose those rules. If your job was useless to "otherwise perfect" parties, why not take initiative and start a party of your own? Almost every job can be replaced with another as long as they know how to play it. I heard a lot of bitching about how WHM and BLM no longer get invites because of SCH but it never so much as slowed me down for either role. Each job has its perks just like some are more dependable than others.
It's ultimately on the leader. What mattered was how the party leader felt about the weight and balance of that perk vs. reliability. I remember lots of parties where players suggested "fill-ins" and the leaders declined because of something or another. I myself will never invite a stranger Taru-PLD into my party. Baaad experience...
Abraxas [365]
No, I haven't played Vanguard. And I probably never will. See, I have this thing where I only play good games (I'm kidding so don't jump down my throat for that).
Whether you mean useless in geographical areas or useless in development areas, there's a perfectly resonable explanation as to why. I might not know them, but I'm sure a more seasoned veteran of XI could enlighten you.
I never saw the need for MOST jobs, to be honest. It's the players that impose those rules. If your job was useless to "otherwise perfect" parties, why not take initiative and start a party of your own? Almost every job can be replaced with another as long as they know how to play it. I heard a lot of bitching about how WHM and BLM no longer get invites because of SCH but it never so much as slowed me down for either role. Each job has its perks just like some are more dependable than others.
It's ultimately on the leader. What mattered was how the party leader felt about the weight and balance of that perk vs. reliability. I remember lots of parties where players suggested "fill-ins" and the leaders declined because of something or another. I myself will never invite a stranger Taru-PLD into my party. Baaad experience...
Lol to each his own. But The best PLD i ever grouped with was a Taru-Pld-Whm. In the 4 hours we were in a group together I healed him 4 times, He never lost agro, and we Wiped once due to a train.
Some of these jobs require skill to play. You cant just walk blindly into them.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Yeah I loved the Job system of FFXI but like some said when a party wants you to change jobs else your out it's limiting the effectiveness of the system. I used a few times sam/thf and I liked the build but people keep on telling you you will dps more if you use war as sub or stuff like that, ok you may be right but the damage you get with sam/thf is not bad and since your in a party I can use some of the best skills thieves have so till I can deal decent damage I don't see any problem if I use a build I like.
Also I'd like if they give a little boost for thiefs it's very hard to lvl them but mostly beast mastery when you share exp with your temporary tamed monster and without using a tamed monster you would lower a lot of your damage.