PvP vs. General Server

Bulror · August 2009

Hi,

How does a PvP server differ from a General server in AOC? I'm familiar with how most games handle PvP and PvE servers, but I thought AOC was basically ALL open PvP.

Thanks,

Bulror

finaticd · August 2009

PvP servers are open PvP so you can kill people at most places but there are a lot of guards and detterants from engaging in it, the PvE servers mean you must consent to PvP by going to special placest. There is a huge criminal system on PvP serversso if a high level ganks someone 7 or so levels lower they MUST do a stupid quest that has them grind hours and hours on end to do anything. Also there is no dueling on PvE servers.

The PvE servers have much fewer players, though at one time there were more PvP players but many left so now most of the PvP players in America are on Tyranny and the rest of AoC players play on two med pop PvE servers.

PvE servers have borderlands, which I'm not sure is very popular - no one talks about it, but if you get some friends together you may be able to gank a few players an hour traveling through this big EMPTY zone - there are no objectives there or anything. PvE servers have sieges, which are bugged so no one can win or lose now. PvE Servers have battleground game- but no where near as many instances as PvE servers. In every MMO the people who like PvP roll on PvP servers and the people who mostly PvE roll on PvE servers, so most players on a PvE server never PvP so there are fewer people to PvP with.

Tyranny,the PvP server with enough players to actually enjoy the game has the most immature players of any server in any MMO ever. A typical general chat topic is 10 people talking about mentaly handicaped people's homosexual behavior, well usually much worse but this site is moderated, Tyranny is not.

Bulror · August 2009

OK, thanks for the info.

TheNinjaboy · August 2009

Like any other massively populated server you're going to have retards with a higher pop.

Go to Tyranny if you live in NA and want PVP.

Put the idiots on ignore.

Crashloop · August 2009

Originally posted by finaticd

PvP servers are open PvP so you can kill people at most places but there are a lot of guards and detterants from engaging in it, the PvE servers mean you must consent to PvP by going to special placest. There is a huge criminal system on PvP serversso if a high level ganks someone 7 or so levels lower they MUST do a stupid quest that has them grind hours and hours on end to do anything. Also there is no dueling on PvE servers.
And isn't that the point with the criminal system, if the high level gank lowbies he needs to grind off his murderpoints however you have a colorful imagination when you say they will do a quest that has them grind for hours on end to do anything. Sure if the high level have gotten himself a huge amount of murderpoints this can be the case, but then we are talking about not a few hundred murderpoints but closer to 1000. and if you get that then you have ganked people intentionally and deserves it. If however you don't do these quests and you have gotten murderpoints you can also either wait for the murder points to wear off, usually 1 point pr hour, or go do a dungeon and the murderpoints will dissipear as you kill mobs.

finaticd · August 2009

If you kill 10 people 7 levels lower over a week you are pretty much grinding. This is probably one of the reasons many PvP players left. Hell I got murder points in white sands for killing players a few levels lower. In Warcraft I can kill whoever I want on the oposing faction all day every day and not get any penalties. 7 levels is a joke, with the little scaling players get in this game, a level 50 player can kill a level 70 Easy, I know I did it with my free level 50 over and over then I smacked talked the player to do something but murder points made them chicken out.

Funny things about the PvP penalties and why Blizzard did not implement them.

1) Groups of players just a bit lower than you can set up ambushes kill you and there is nothing you can do about it, those players will net you murder points just seconds later. Reverse grieving happens all the time.

2) Lowbies can run around in PvP zones and get hit by the action, it still happens.

3) Lowbies can heal bot and kite/hide a few seconds and they are in the clear again.

Have you ever got murder points? You get many per kill and after a few kills you are grinding. IDK, for me it is a good reason not to play this game, there are no open PvP servers that probably cost Funcom many subs as the PvP players seemed to leave en mass leaving behind the people who can't level on a PvP server.

Crashloop · August 2009

Originally posted by finaticd

If you kill 10 people 7 levels lower over a week you are pretty much grinding. This is probably one of the reasons many PvP players left. Hell I got murder points in white sands for killing players a few levels lower. In Warcraft I can kill whoever I want on the oposing faction all day every day and not get any penalties. 7 levels is a joke, with the little scaling players get in this game, a level 50 player can kill a level 70 Easy, I know I did it with my free level 50 over and over then I smacked talked the player to do something but murder points made them chicken out.
Funny things about the PvP penalties and why Blizzard did not implement them.
1) Groups of players just a bit lower than you can set up ambushes kill you and there is nothing you can do about it, those players will net you murder points just seconds later. Reverse grieving happens all the time.
2) Lowbies can run around in PvP zones and get hit by the action, it still happens.
3) Lowbies can heal bot and kite/hide a few seconds and they are in the clear again.
Have you ever got murder points? You get many per kill and after a few kills you are grinding. IDK, for me it is a good reason not to play this game, there are no open PvP servers that probably cost Funcom many subs as the PvP players seemed to leave en mass leaving behind the people who can't level on a PvP server.

I have gotten a lots of murder points yes, most of them from lowbies abusing the system and giving me murder points when I protect myself, but also from times when I have helped guildmates that was ganked and went to a lowbie zone and ganked the shit out of the ones ganking him. It didn't really take long to remove them, sure did some quests to remove most of them, but I never spent hours after hours there.The criminal system is far from perfect, but it also did the main thing it was put in to do. Before the criminal system there was a huge issue in all 20-40 zones with gankers waiting in the quest hubs killing players as they entered. Players could be farmed for days and weeks by morons who found it fun to gank lowbies to increase their kill count. once the criminal system was in place these gankers mysteriously left the game. funny thing when they can't handle proper PvP they found it no more fun and many of them simply quit, stating that the criminal system removed their PvP fun.

And your example with 10 people 7 levels lower then you and you have to grind if you kill them over a week is the biggest piece of bullshit I have ever heard. We all know you are no fan of AoC, but it's funny that you try to lie like you do there. If I as level 80 kill a guy that is level 71 I get about 12ish murder points pr kill. If I kill him 10 times that's a total of 112ish murder points, the murder points dissipear naturally from your character with a rate of 1 pr 1-2 hour or so. So in a 24 hour period you would probably loose minimum 12 points. Each quest you finish also removes 12 or 13 points, and when you kill mobs your level or higher there is a chance you will loose a point on x amounts of mobs. So the grind is nothing. If you however as level 80 farm 10 level 30ish players you will geta round 35 points pr kill. Then you can say it will be a bit of a farm, but then again if you actively kill that low level players you deserve it.

Eetherean · August 2009

sounds like they got a pretty bad system in place.

if they are gonna go that far i dont know why they dont just use everquest 2s pvp server system. level range for attacking players.

would circumvent the murderpoint system and just not let you attack players 10+ levels below or above you if it seems to be such a big issue of grieving.

I will say this though. i remember i tried open pvp on launch and got killed with the instagrief campers everywhere i turned.

drove me nuts and quit quickly.

Crashloop · August 2009

Originally posted by Eetherean

sounds like they got a pretty bad system in place.

if they are gonna go that far i dont know why they dont just use everquest 2s pvp server system. level range for attacking players.

would circumvent the murderpoint system and just not let you attack players 10+ levels below or above you if it seems to be such a big issue of grieving.

I will say this though. i remember i tried open pvp on launch and got killed with the instagrief campers everywhere i turned.
drove me nuts and quit quickly.

That again would kill the entire concept with FFA PvP wouldn't it?

The system itself does have some flaws, but it has also been greatly improved since it arrived and some more tweaks might just make it become less of an issue. The main problem is that players thata re lower level then you can attack you and if they are a group and you start defending yourself against the attacker the other who joins in will be able to give you murderpoints since they didn't start the fight. If they can fix this, then this wouldn't really be a issue at all anymore.

Metza · August 2009

I just started playing AoC and I joined tyranny becuase I have usually enjoyed pvp and heard that the pve servers had rare to no pvp going on. Well I am already gettin frustrated with the griefing that is goin on, and I know everyone says "your in a pvp server" but is the point of a pvp server for lvl 25+ people to be running around in the underpart of tortage kill all the lower lvls that have probaly just started the game as I have.

So i'm at lvl 18 currently and most of my deaths have been from players that are in thier mid 20's while i'm in zones that those players really dont even have business being in other than to grief others and they are doing it to the point where the game is near unplayable. I was going to ask if there was some kind of griefing penalty( but read posts above) but I guess these guys are just making a character, most likely an alt, and getting in thier 20's and goin to the zones away from tortage and killing all the players 11-18 which seems to be the main lvls that players are in those zones that are actually trying to get something done, When fights do brake out between the people questing near the same lvl it is more fun than having no chance against someone higher than you that does not even care about the penalty.

I like the idea of the open pvp, and even get caught up in it myself if someone kills me while i'm questing, i'll go looking for them to fight again after res but when I have no chance to defend myself against that person and they seem to not care that I am 7+ lvls lower than them what else is there to do besides just keep gettin griefed or roll on a pve server?

catlana · August 2009

Tyranny is a hard server to play on. There is alot of gankage / pvp farming on Tyranny. Tyranny also has some excellant pvpers.

Cimmeria has less gankage but ganking still definitely occurs. You really need a guild on Cimmeria or Tyranny.

I moved to Wiccana when I came back. PvP mini games occur nightly for every bracket and Sieges are attempted quite often. Yes, the amount of pvp going on is less but I am much happier.

finaticd · August 2009

Originally posted by Crashloop

That again would kill the entire concept with FFA PvP wouldn't it?

That already happened in Age of Conan, one of the many reasons this game has such a low population. They promised one thing and then did the bait and switch, which is common for this Norweigien company, other examples include, (DX 10, Bar fights, Assassination of Kind Conan, Free Level 50s to everyone, Open PvP servers).

The big joke is PvP still is not balanced, the class balance sucks in age of conan, there will always be zergs running around easily killing solo players and smaller groups, etc. Even worse is the lowbies can grief higher levels, what a joke of a concept.

In conclusion, like always Funcom tries to cater to new players rather than higher levels by adding this syetem, others include: (PvP punishment system, much more leveling crap gets added then end game stuff, Tortage and the following 3 zones probably got 80% of the development time for this title, they dumbed the game down for consoles but also for PC users after that fact) by adding this system. Now that the promos are over who will replace all the higher levels that keep quiting?

Crashloop · August 2009

Originally posted by finaticd

Originally posted by Crashloop

That again would kill the entire concept with FFA PvP wouldn't it?

That already happened in Age of Conan, one of the many reasons this game has such a low population. They promised one thing and then did the bait and switch, which is common for this Norweigien company, other examples include, (DX 10, Bar fights, Assassination of Kind Conan, Free Level 50s to everyone, Open PvP servers).

They never promised free level 50's for everyone, the free level 50 was if you already had a character above level 50, the PvP servers are pretty much open there is 3 zones that isn't PvP enabled. And those zones are the main cities for the different "races", where did they promise that you could assasinate King Conan?

The big joke is PvP still is not balanced, the class balance sucks in age of conan, there will always be zergs running around easily killing solo players and smaller groups, etc. Even worse is the lowbies can grief higher levels, what a joke of a concept.

The big joke is that you won't find many MMO's where PvP is balanced. Not even WoW who has had 4 years to perfect it have balanced PvP. Blizzard introduced Death Knights and screwed the balance over again. Balance in a class based game is rare to be seen, SWG when they released the CU managed to get pretty close to a balanced gameplay, however when they managed that the fighting also got boring. Of course they went ahead and screwed balance over when they introduced the robot arms.

In conclusion, like always Funcom tries to cater to new players rather than higher levels by adding this syetem, others include: (PvP punishment system, much more leveling crap gets added then end game stuff, Tortage and the following 3 zones probably got 80% of the development time for this title, they dumbed the game down for consoles but also for PC users after that fact) by adding this system. Now that the promos are over who will replace all the higher levels that keep quiting?

AoC was intended to be released for console from start, however the launch and the lack of success to keep the the players from launch probably made Funcom can the entire console idea for AoC. AoC have added stuff for new people since it was needed to do so to fill in the leveling gaps. It doesn't help to add loads of stuff to endgame if people stops leveling due to they run out of things to do. For players at endgame this doesn't make any sense, but if you look at it from a developement point of view fixing the game from start to end is often the best way to fix a game. The players who already have passed these levels will see it differently tho.

Without a doubt Funcom did promise way too much before launch, and that is also the reasonf for the state of the game today. AoC won't be a big MMO due to this, and it is far from the success it looked like they might achieve on launch day. AoC will most likely over time join other games like AO, SWG, Vanguard who has a small playerbase and few servers. Unless Funcom manages to attract loads of players with their expansion pack. Time will show what happens, but aoc will never be a MMO that is remembered as the most successfull. This doesn't make it a bad MMO, because in it's current state it's shaping up nicely. The old GD and EE did manage to screw the game over by hyping it too much, but that is history. We all knew what happened and the result of it.

finaticd · August 2009

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by finaticd

Originally posted by Crashloop

That again would kill the entire concept with FFA PvP wouldn't it?

That already happened in Age of Conan, one of the many reasons this game has such a low population. They promised one thing and then did the bait and switch, which is common for this Norweigien company, other examples include, (DX 10, Bar fights, Assassination of Kind Conan, Free Level 50s to everyone, Open PvP servers).

They never promised free level 50's for everyone, the free level 50 was if you already had a character above level 50, the PvP servers are pretty much open there is 3 zones that isn't PvP enabled. And those zones are the main cities for the different "races", where did they promise that you could assasinate King Conan?

The big joke is PvP still is not balanced, the class balance sucks in age of conan, there will always be zergs running around easily killing solo players and smaller groups, etc. Even worse is the lowbies can grief higher levels, what a joke of a concept.

The big joke is that you won't find many MMO's where PvP is balanced. Not even WoW who has had 4 years to perfect it have balanced PvP. Blizzard introduced Death Knights and screwed the balance over again. Balance in a class based game is rare to be seen, SWG when they released the CU managed to get pretty close to a balanced gameplay, however when they managed that the fighting also got boring. Of course they went ahead and screwed balance over when they introduced the robot arms.

In conclusion, like always Funcom tries to cater to new players rather than higher levels by adding this syetem, others include: (PvP punishment system, much more leveling crap gets added then end game stuff, Tortage and the following 3 zones probably got 80% of the development time for this title, they dumbed the game down for consoles but also for PC users after that fact) by adding this system. Now that the promos are over who will replace all the higher levels that keep quiting?

AoC was intended to be released for console from start, however the launch and the lack of success to keep the the players from launch probably made Funcom can the entire console idea for AoC. AoC have added stuff for new people since it was needed to do so to fill in the leveling gaps. It doesn't help to add loads of stuff to endgame if people stops leveling due to they run out of things to do. For players at endgame this doesn't make any sense, but if you look at it from a developement point of view fixing the game from start to end is often the best way to fix a game. The players who already have passed these levels will see it differently tho.

Without a doubt Funcom did promise way too much before launch, and that is also the reasonf for the state of the game today. AoC won't be a big MMO due to this, and it is far from the success it looked like they might achieve on launch day. AoC will most likely over time join other games like AO, SWG, Vanguard who has a small playerbase and few servers. Unless Funcom manages to attract loads of players with their expansion pack. Time will show what happens, but aoc will never be a MMO that is remembered as the most successfull. This doesn't make it a bad MMO, because in it's current state it's shaping up nicely. The old GD and EE did manage to screw the game over by hyping it too much, but that is history. We all knew what happened and the result of it.

They promised level 50s to all when they spammed the 900,000+ players that left this game's emails and did not say one word about requiring a preexisting level 50. They promised an assassination of king conan event and it failed then Funcom blamed the players for expecting to much - it was funny because whoever is left must have very low expectations after so much disappointment. PvP is not FFA anymore like promised, idk there are so many loop holes and restrictions is hard to call it open, you can't even fight over resources because the other players can just spawn in another instance and there is no death real penalty. Plus there are guards all over which is pretty lame as people mostly hang by guards do to a lack of content or whatever.

Blizzard made PvP right and no one cares about it any more, it was pretty balanced I topped the Arenas with the lowest tier class in season 1. My point is why be so anti grieving when nothing is balanced anyway.

Well the developers are wrong, TBH if AoC had only 50 levels and kick ass end game and PvP it would be popular, any popular MMO has had a great end game because the hard core players don't wait around for junk to do, though they do go on long vacations. IE after everything is farmed and they have all the loot they need.

Crashloop · August 2009

Originally posted by finaticd

Originally posted by Crashloop

Originally posted by finaticd

Originally posted by Crashloop

That again would kill the entire concept with FFA PvP wouldn't it?