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Should kiting be allowed?
svann
Member RarePosts: 2,230
After reading the jump thread I thought this should be discussed.
Comments
Kiting is a tactic used by ranged characters who are typically not built well for toe-to-toe combat, and/or a means to keep control of a tougher mob (ie. raid boss, etc) in taking it down. If someone is able to successfully kite an enemy, especially in an area with other aggro to deal with... then I say more power to them.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Think about it for a sec. If it wasnt allowed how would you stop people from doing it without completly ruining the game.
If a mob agros you, its suposed to chase you if you run from it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Better question who would roll a profession that didnt wear plate armor then? You would have to let all class's have the same armor and defenses.
Kiting is a tactic used by ranged characters who are typically not built well for toe-to-toe combat, and/or a means to keep control of a tougher mob (ie. raid boss, etc) in taking it down. If someone is able to successfully kite an enemy, especially in an area with other aggro to deal with... then I say more power to them.
Yup I agree. If the tank(s) die you will have to kite the mob in order to raise the tank and he can heal. Kirin was one of the main bosses you have to kite in order to kill in the begining not sure if there is another tatic now. Only time I really didn't like people kiting is when camping 24 hour HNM and a group get claims and majority of them dies while the survivors kite til they get raised. I am guilty of that also but its just one of those things you don't mind if your group does it but hate to see someone else do it.
Personally I hate kiting and perching because the AI just isn't strong enough in MMOs to deal with it. If the AI was smart enough to use tactics to fight back against it then sure, but when AI is only smart enough to keep running straight it's lame. It also allows for killing mobs of a higher level then intended and results in power leveling.
More games seem to do a only follow for a certain amount of time for kiting and a monster can't reach you so it can't take damage for perching which is nice.
yes perching I understand. no place for it in an MMO, However I am guilty of doing it.
But certian things had to be kited. For example I never saw King behomoth tanked straight up.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
The point is that kiting as a tactic is an exploit of the fact that the mobs AI is so weak that it can never realize that it is pointless to continue chasing you. Now I realize that it is a game and compromises are made. But then why do people think it ok to allow kiting but if I want to jump shot kite that is somehow against the rules of decency? It seems to me that kiting itself is 10x more of an exploit than jumping.
The point is that kiting as a tactic is an exploit of the fact that the mobs AI is so weak that it can never realize that it is pointless to continue chasing you. Now I realize that it is a game and compromises are made. But then why do people think it ok to allow kiting but if I want to jump shot kite that is somehow against the rules of decency? It seems to me that kiting itself is 10x more of an exploit than jumping.
Some mobs will loose agro after chasing for so long. Or when another player pulls hate off the tank. It depends on the game
Go play with a momma bear, keep provoking her cubs and see how long she chasses you. She will chase you all day long.
if your provking an HNM it should chase you. Untill it gets pissed at someone else.
Now I am not talking about the solo play kiting stuff, I am stricly talking about end game kiting.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Some games it's harder to kite due to mob density and layout, but in FFXI I had NO problem kiting mobs with my BST/RDM. I remember living on those Mandras in the tunnel leading up to the Tree. Or kiting underground with jellies. Or kiting.. hell, everywhere. Kiting is paramount to a class like that, and you wonder if it should be allowed? Weirdness.
Classes like BST are nothing but one big kite. So how do they "not allow" you to kite exactly?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Well in WoW (and some other games) some mobs have movement crippling effects that slow you down and prevent you from kiting.
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Yes and No. Those answers don't quit fit what would be considered.
I would have to say that it would be, to an extent, a certain distance, in other words, and once aggro is lost, health bars are returned, but that is default in games now.
Well in WoW (and some other games) some mobs have movement crippling effects that slow you down and prevent you from kiting.
Final Fantasy XI had em to called gravity and bind, I think there might be one more but I was never a mage. As for the bst comment I %100 agree because I had lvl 75 bst. Trying to charm a mob and it doesn't work you have to kite til charm can be recasted.
The point is that kiting as a tactic is an exploit of the fact that the mobs AI is so weak that it can never realize that it is pointless to continue chasing you. Now I realize that it is a game and compromises are made. But then why do people think it ok to allow kiting but if I want to jump shot kite that is somehow against the rules of decency? It seems to me that kiting itself is 10x more of an exploit than jumping.
A: No one's saying jumping itself is an exploit... it could be *used* in a way that would be, however.
B: Kiting isn't an exploit of AI any more than using a root or stun or sleep spell is exploiting the mobs' weakness to them.
C: Speaking of AI, the most basic impulse of an aggressive creature would be to "catch and kill my prey". If you're its prey and it's set on doing just that, you can run in zig-zags, in circles, in sine-wave patterns.. whatever.... it's going to chase you.
Anothe way to put it...
In the wild, animals will chase you down, and there are specific strategies to "exploit their lack of AI" - so to speak - in some cases... I believe for alligators... you're told to run in a zig-zag because they can't change direction as quickly as a human can. A more intelligent creature would "do the geometry", run straight and catch you at the crossing... The alligator, however, will attempt to zig zag after you.
That said.. kiting does not work on all enemies... at least not in any MMO or game otherwise that I've played.
As for "jump shot kiting"... not sure I'm familiar with that. You mean jumping up and shooting while kiting? I'm not sure how that would be an exploit... unless the tactic itself isn't the problem, but more where and how it's used... I'd like some clarification on that so I understand better.
I think what concerns people about the ability to jump is it really brings a sort of "Romper Room" atmosphere into the game... You're running along through dangerous territory, and see people jumping all over the place like a jumping bean on caffeine pills. Or just going into town and seeing people hopping in the air every 2 seconds. It does become an eyesore after a while.
My own take is... that if a game's going to have jumping.. then so be it. Hopefully it won't be abused. However, if the game is designed where no jumping wouldn't be a hindrance, then I don't think it's a big deal either.
Same could be said for being able to swim underwater... Or climb surfaces... etc. Each of those are features that, yes, could benefit the gameplay... but the game isn't "lacking" if they don't have it, so long as the content in the game is accessible without it.
My examples, again... Guild Wars, FFXI, Lineage 2.. and a number of other MMOs I've played.. none of them have jumping. None of them, to me, suffered for it.
But as for the topic... I don't think kiting is an "exploit" at all.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think in FFXI the game wanted you to Kite some HNMs while Tanking other HNMs. It is called "finding the strategy to kill the boss" Try kiting a dragon like fafnir or Tiamat it will just draw you in and spikeflail the area down. now try doing that with a KB and you can kill it with as low as 6 people. why do you have to stand at a dragon's feet to kill it ? , why do you have to get tons of blms for aspido ? it is called out smarting the boss. when you are a leader you want to get things done fast and clean, and every boss allows you to do so in a way. sometimes it is the "onlyway".
+ Kiting and chasing after KB was one of the best times I had during end game. It was just pure fun , kinda like watching Roadrunner meep meep :P
If kiting isnt allowed, you can say goodbye to all the magic classes. Most of the Spell casters use kiting as a means of survival. They can't handle the load of damage, and when casting if they get hit, they could lose concentration (if thats how they intend the game to be) So kiting should be a neccessity.
The point is that kiting as a tactic is an exploit of the fact that the mobs AI is so weak that it can never realize that it is pointless to continue chasing you. Now I realize that it is a game and compromises are made. But then why do people think it ok to allow kiting but if I want to jump shot kite that is somehow against the rules of decency? It seems to me that kiting itself is 10x more of an exploit than jumping.
Some mobs will loose agro after chasing for so long. Or when another player pulls hate off the tank. It depends on the game
Go play with a momma bear, keep provoking her cubs and see how long she chasses you. She will chase you all day long.
if your provking an HNM it should chase you. Untill it gets pissed at someone else.
Now I am not talking about the solo play kiting stuff, I am stricly talking about end game kiting.
Actually, a momma bear and any other animal you can think of will give up the chase when it is half dead. Animals are smarter than that.
Yes but a good kiter is fully aware of that distance and can run in circles if need be. All leashing distance does is separate the good kiters from the bad ones. And that same idea is why I am promoting the idea of allowing jump shot kiting. It is a kiting technic that takes a bit more skill. Why dumb down the game by disallowing it? If kiting itself is allowed then the game should also allow good kiting technic.
I remember a while back my sky ls would always have a nin kite kirin and the 12-14blms in the group would stand in the middle and blow him up... good times. So kiting = yes
Then there were those small group battles with the two (or was it three) guys that would change from nuker to melee and back again and you had to not use magic or not hit them physically until they were a certain state.
Those were some fun battles to do and you got some nice rings if I remember correctly. The ONLY way to beat those guys was to have someone kiting one while the other guys beat on the other guy as he changed jobs constantly. You had to use up your 2hrs and everything. Same with dragon fights a lot of times in them and just about any BCNM fight, solo or otherwise.
It was like some level 40 cap thing in the expansion zone where the floating islands were.
Seriously, over half the mob battles in FFXI were pretty much kiting, so again, I'm not sure why this should really even be discussed as a legitimate question for FFXI. It was necessary to do practically anything in the higher content/or any special boss realm at lower levels.
"TO MICHAEL!"