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PVP System that Would SATISFY
Elreic
Member Posts: 79
In PVP - Add to this Thread, how to seriously improve PvP Strategic Design
To achieve a World Territorial System, you need to first ask "what do players want?"
Players want to:
1. Possess something 2. Recieve Achievment 3. Recieve Peer and Game Recongition and 4. have a slight Advantage over other players 5. Feel like their Guild is the Coolest at Something
If that is whats fun, then allow it. To make PvP sticky/ebduring and relevant to the game is to take a page from a few of the successful models, start with the Eve handbook, albeit on a more cosumer friendly scale, possession of territory that matters. I dont mean instanced raids necessarily, but open areas that really mean something. Like areas you possess might have some cool repeatable, farmable quests, and great resources. Reasons that will force people to enter your kingdom.
For example, lets use Aion as an example, when you are in the middle zone, the void or whatever it is called, this is essentially an open PvP area with a third party CG faction there as well.
Think of the fun if perhaps the following modifications took place in any PvP Game:
*these are not original ideas, so much as a fresh look at how to package features, for funs sake, not to be able to say "we are the first to do this one interesting bullet point of PvP...yay!!
Basic Point is to Introduce Competitive PvP that rewards infividually and Guild Wide that has some meaning to the Worlds we are so desperately trying to affect.
Implement the idea of at least 2 tiers of Kingdoms, Fiefdoms with Dukes and The (one) Capital, with a King, acquired and held by the games guild/legion/clan. You possess literal territory that will not and should not be boring and ought to snake through the edges of some main PvE areas.
To Take a Fiefdom:
Step 1. Finish a Mini-Raid (2 hours), which qualifies you to attack
Your guild must basically do a raid to overcome the NPC barrier to entry for the Fiefdom. If you are sending a conqeuring force, you must go through the mini-raid to attack the fiefdom "officially" this does not mean that little raiding parties etc cannot skirmish in others terretories whenever they choose. The Raid would be fun, yet challenging, with a few nice rewards along the way. Must be cool and heavily repeatable. Mini Raid, I think a mini raid followed by a 2 hour fight should be the sum experience for a Fiefdom, players must be encouraged to do this often.
This could maybe be an instance, or not, maybe you need a defense force, while your m8's do the mni-raid. This could certainly be much more complex with a good community who learn to work together, large scale. Have to scale a game like this as you go you do not overwhelm the player base immediately, while server poplation grows.
2. Raid is Completed -Fight for the Fiefdom or Take Possession if it is unheld (2 Hours)
If there no guild already posesses that particular Fiefdom, you take possesion. If it is held, you must now assault the defenders, who have a decent advantage if all things are equal, the attacking force must be more talented and better equipped, superioir numbers etc. If you win, Each day you hold the Fiefdom your entire legion gain small bonuses each day (with some reasonable cap), as well as zero competion resources to mine resource nodes, within reason. You can also setup a a few small shops which may generate tax revenue.
Bottom Line is it really would be worth it to own a Tier 2 Fiefdom.
Defending Your Fiefdom (2 Hours)
Build Defenses: When you hold the kingdom, you can also build a defense network (which will consume a reasonable amount of the extra resources gathered to keep the playing field level), including hiring a reasonable number of NPC's etc. However, if you lose, do not make it hurt so bad. Maybe give the losing Guild the ability to retreat a percetage of their retinue, that could be reinstated in a new fiefdom if one is taken within 7 days.
Again, make people want to enjoy defending, attacking. They should recieve badges and recongition for each achievement, a defense a successful siege. These a plyer or a guild never lose, they help create legenday characters in game.
During the two hours the attacking army was doing the mini-raid, the current DUKE (poessessing guild leader) of the Fiefdom and his army are put on high alert, and will marshall their defense force. Defenders have a decent advantage, if all things are equal. Conqeuers must innovate.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE KINGDOMS CANNOT BE TRAVELED OPENLY. People will and shoud try to send gank squads in, parties to try and steal resources, however, they cannot POSSESS the castle, unless they complette the mini-raid. Imagine the enmity this would create in the world, the politics, is in part makes Eve so interesting and intelligent.
Taking the CAPITAL (6 Total Hours)
If you hold a fiefdom for 6 (x) days, you are eligble to repeat the above process on a larger scale and conquer the one world, Tier 1 CAPITAL. Same process, but everything is harder, much harder. Guild leader, assumes title of King of the CAPITAL and additionally recieves tax revenue from each Fiefdom. How this would inspire jealosy and intrigue!
Imagine the Guild rivalry, how fun would that be, it would create fame and recognition on the servers, which is always compelling to players.
Build an Empire and Try to Hold it - Simplified EvE Online Approach to Territory
And furthermore as the process and population/High level characters progressed you could literly have dozens of Tier 2 kingdoms and allow Legions to possess many of them. Spread themselves to thin and a Multi-Legion attack could seriously impact a particularly large kingdom.
If there are enough raids, expect random raids from the third party NPC's occasionally to keep thingds lively.
Thoughs...how would you expand on this idea? Could be applied to any style of game.
BIG WISH: ONE SHARD, with Instances ala GW. When the fiefdom/kingdom fights are on, make it a common shard, so much more immersive and large.
Cheers!
Comments
For me, one of the most simple ways to improve PvP in any genre is to make it a) Meaningful (like the territory concept you suggest) and b) stop trying to seperate PvP and PvE and act like they are two different beasts. Make PvP matter for PvE, and vica versa.
Another thing: Stop trying to make an MMORPG like its an FPS.
These three things doth a wise man fear: A storm at sea, a moonless night, and the anger of a gentle man
The question is moot - no matter what you suggest, some will agree and some will disagree.
You either make a PvP centric game or a PvE centric game. If you try to combine the two to please both sides, you end up disappointing both - check out Warhammer.
Aion are making a fist of combining the two, but one is a result of the other, and vice versa. Try to separate them and you will fail.
The most important thing to make pvp good is strip away all that other pve crap hat pvp'ers don't want. Pvp'ers want to pvp not kill mobs so lets get rid of leveling to 50 by killing mobs and doing stupid quests. You should level by killing players, by taking keeps or towns. Quests, if we go the quest route, should be a quest to kill x number of players or capture the landmark.
The current systems on putting pvp into a pve system is like trying to force a sqaure peg into a round hole. The pve'ers get a half baked experience and they are there just to be ganked. the pvpers are forced to grind through boring quests and what not that they aren't interested in.
I agree with you that the rewards for PVP and holding areas/locations/realms/etc should have benefits that are desirable. I rather enjoyed DAOC's version of this, where relics would assist melee or magic or defense. However, these relics could be anything. The hand of Midas could add to the gold collected by players (turning things into gold), or to get access to mines that have a rare and coveted ore that is required for certain enchantments. Something that is not necessarily required, but highly sought after.
I also think that multiple fronts is almost a required thing. There is a reason I think this. If there are two factions that are at war with one another, then some of each will be at "home" killing monsters and others in the battlegrounds doing PvP. The two sides will be killing each other and one faction may grow stronger than the other, with no way to rebound. However, if you add an extra faction then this can balance out potentially. If the strong faction sends its entire force to quash faction #2 on the battlegrounds, faction #3 might sneak around behind and start burning #1's building and homes. 2 and 3 might group up to smash #1, or at least make even playing fields. Then they turn on one another. The point is that a third faction creates that problem of having a little too much to easily handle. Players can't necessarily create characters that can handle #2's casters and 3's as well. So, now they have to specialize maybe.
However, to stop server locks, the reward system should have some cap. The idea that comes to mind is to set up a time frame, like a faction can only hold the kingdom for 7 days. Upon 7 days, everything resets (either casually, or by force through a huge NPC raid on the kingdom - which could be one of those great survival moments for a clan), and the faction that kept the kingdom gets a bonus item or exp payout, but then has to do it over again to get it again. The other factions, the more they lose and the more the first faction keeps claiming the kingdom, builds a reserve. If that 3rd faction ever does claim the kingdom, their payout would be larger than the one experienced by the faction constantly claiming it.
Of course, this is just what I think.
Dag, I agree with your assessmemt. The 3rd party faction adds alot of dev flexibility.
Someone said PvP only, I think you would lose alot in your scenario. PvP is fun, but most of us enjoy the exploration, the game development, compelling isntaces and multiple ways to play. For me, all PvP would get old quick. I think as Dag and others have suggested, making PvP and PvE more closely integrated is nice, but allowing people to stay out of to use an eVe Term "High Sec Space" should also be an option, an exciting diversion or Clannal way of life, fighting for territory.
I think it can be done, the innovative ideas are all out there, to intelligently combine them with lots of levers that can be pulled to dial it in, is there!