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Great game, just not very MMO-y

dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

Title says it all. Still early in beta but so far game comes across as an action game with multiplayer. 

Char creation is a lot of fun, could do that all day. Questing is fairly straight forward but still fun. Graphics are great, environment is spectacular. Seems to be missing a social component I'd prefer to see in a game labled 'mmo' and that for me is the major incentive to cough up a sub fee.

Comments

  • GrubbsGradyGrubbsGrady Member UncommonPosts: 371

    Have you reached the lairs yet? You will need a team for them, and boy are they a blast! Also, the endgame of champions is designed to make it easy to put groups together and do things that are group-oriented.

    I personally like how this works seeing as some games make everything based on grouping, but in champions you have a choice. Many things can be played as a solo player, but if you make a few friends and group up you get the xp bonus and have folks to chat with and have more fun together.

    With this system, I can log in late at night or in the morning and not have to worry about being able to find someone my level to quest with, I can just get at it alone and then later on when friends are about add them to the mix for even more fun.

     

    Anyhow, thats my two-cents. Totally agree that it could pass for a single player game, but that is only if you play it as a single player game :D If you want we could team up sometime!

  • banthisbanthis Member Posts: 1,891

    Once you get out of the Tutorial and Crisis zones (basically teaching you most of the game's basics) the basic quests remain the same youc an do them solo but quite a few are chains that end with a needed group component usually 2 to 3 other people.  Its honestly better to travel with friends or a group to complete quests outside the Tutorial Areas.  THey DO how ever need better grouping / social tools to help people find teams.  They also encourage the concept of even if you aren't grouped you can still complete a quest with others.  Not all of them are like this but many that require you to kill mobs as long as you hit it even if your not the one that tagged it you get a quest update. 

    Quest mechanics and RP mechanics are there to encourage you to become social in the game but its not forcing you which is really more what an MMO is.  A massive multiplayer game....thats an MMO not..a Massive Multi Group Game.   I wish people would remember that..its about choice if you dont want to group you should have that choice but if you do want to group there should be things there like XP / loot bonus and even dungeons all of which Champions have if you cared to try. 

    Champions is probably the first game since Everquest / UO or maybe even Everquest 2 in my book that is truely what an MMO is about.  Creating the character you want for the role you want and going out there and being that role.  Thats what an RPG is about and the fact its Massive Multiplayer and Online makes it an M M O R P G.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Title says it all. Still early in beta but so far game comes across as an action game with multiplayer. 
    Char creation is a lot of fun, could do that all day. Questing is fairly straight forward but still fun. Graphics are great, environment is spectacular. Seems to be missing a social component I'd prefer to see in a game labled 'mmo' and that for me is the major incentive to cough up a sub fee.

     

    I think this is the first in a line of games we're going to see roughly like this.  The new SW ToR videos looked remotely close to the single player style gameplay with massive multiplayer aspects.  

     

    In CO the socializing isn't as apparent as in some other MMOs that are more group-reliant.  I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing.  In OB I've come into a number of groups and conversations I hadn't previously.. and I think it will open up a bit more socially upon release.  Mostly right now I feel a lot of people are trying to learn the game.... tactics still work in PvP and PvE although at this time its tough to plan tactics with no set builds.  ToR remedies that, but overall.. the action-y feel seems to be what these newer MMOs are trying to move towards.



  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by GrubbsGrady


    Have you reached the lairs yet? You will need a team for them, and boy are they a blast! Also, the endgame of champions is designed to make it easy to put groups together and do things that are group-oriented.

    Its not the lack of grouping, its the seeming lack of social activity. Non combat activity. Is comic book adventuring all there is? Secret identities? Do the heroes ever hang up their capes and knock back a few and shoot the breeze?  As I said, still too early to tell, I could be wrong and all that is in the game and I just haven't come across it, either cause I just started or its just beta.

    I think it was also the pop-up asking me which instance I wanted to join each time I went somewhere that was also a bit disheartening, at least as far as what I look for in an MMO.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by GrubbsGrady


    Have you reached the lairs yet? You will need a team for them, and boy are they a blast! Also, the endgame of champions is designed to make it easy to put groups together and do things that are group-oriented.

    Its not the lack of grouping, its the seeming lack of social activity. Non combat activity. Is comic book adventuring all there is? Secret identities? Do the heroes ever hang up their capes and knock back a few and shoot the breeze?  As I said, still too early to tell, I could be wrong and all that is in the game and I just haven't come across it, either cause I just started or its just beta.

    I think it was also the pop-up asking me which instance I wanted to join each time I went somewhere that was also a bit disheartening, at least as far as what I look for in an MMO.

     

    Hey I hear ya, I don't like the way they instance like that,  As for secret identities they said it may show up in an expansion (two are already planned, betcha one will launch next year too...) They do have a night club in MC, and thats about as social as I've really seen it so far.



  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    One of the issues I have is that... the world doesn't feel connected. I want to be able to travel from one place to the next without having to go the chopper and just picking where I want to go. It feels more mechanical and less MMOy as he says. I mean, even Guild Wars you could travel from one place to the next making the world seem like a big place, but not so much here.

    image

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Originally posted by natuxatu


    One of the issues I have is that... the world doesn't feel connected. I want to be able to travel from one place to the next without having to go the chopper and just picking where I want to go. It feels more mechanical and less MMOy as he says. I mean, even Guild Wars you could travel from one place to the next making the world seem like a big place, but not so much here.

     

    I think the reason they did that was to be more comic-y in their level design approach.  In the desert one minute, then snow the next, then to the depths of the ocean.. and probably eventually to the moon and so on. 

     

    To get there by any other means would probably be really tough level design.. but I can completely understand what you are saying.



  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

    Level 9 here, been working long hours all week un-able to play much.  Today is the day I'll test the social aspect to it's max. When it comes down to it, social ( mmo ) makes or breaks a game for me. Please don't give me the " you have to find a good guild crap" Because at the end of the day it's up to the devs to make mmo's social. BOTTOM LINE !!!

       Vanguard, Game is great, no one to play with (2 out of 10)

       WoW, Game is great, very social (10 out of 10)

       LOTRO, Game is good, but everything is chain quest making it almost imposable to find groups (2 out of 10)

       EQ2, Game is good, very social (10 out of 10)

       Warhammer, game is poor > just ok, Other than RvR social is non existent (2 out of 10)

      D&D Online, Great game, but they are playing around with paying and ftp customers co-existing together at this time but      social is as hight as WoW  (10 out of 10)

       Eve Online, never tested it, not my style of mmo, I think it's very social (10 out of 10)

     

     

  • GrubbsGradyGrubbsGrady Member UncommonPosts: 371
    Originally posted by natuxatu


    One of the issues I have is that... the world doesn't feel connected. I want to be able to travel from one place to the next without having to go the chopper and just picking where I want to go. It feels more mechanical and less MMOy as he says. I mean, even Guild Wars you could travel from one place to the next making the world seem like a big place, but not so much here.

     

    The helocopter is great. If they had the world connected you would be spending hours traveling to another zone. Being in a desert I don't think there will be a canadian snow-ville anywhere near you. So you take a helocoptor! I can see how you would want them to be connected, but if you really thinka bout it that would be asking for a HUGE world to run around in...and this game isn't running on WoW graphics ;P

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by page


     Because at the end of the day it's up to the devs to make mmo's social. BOTTOM LINE !!! 

     

    If I may quibble. Its not up to the devs to make mmo's social. The players do that. But the devs do need to provide the dynamics (robust communication interface, social clothing, economy/market, dynamics that call for positive non-combat player interaction) that promote or encourage socialization.

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888

    What they really need is a good lfg ability...  As they decreased the number of people in zones from 200 to 100 that is good for questing but it is bad for open quests.  Last night I wasn't able to get enough people interested in the open quest in the desert to get a group that could take the end boss down.  A couple nights ago the area was always going with 5-8 people and it was great...  When you want to get a group the only way is to ask in zone wide which is now less then 100 people.  There is no way to access the other 1000+ people from other zones.

    I hope they add a looking for team function.

    ---
    Ethion

  • ManchineManchine Member UncommonPosts: 469

    Feels like a MMO to me.  Looks like its just you.

    image

  • korat102korat102 Member Posts: 313
    Originally posted by Manchine


    Feels like a MMO to me.

     

    Certainly does now after the massive exp nerf and mob strength boost in the latest patch. Minion type mobs far below your level now do so much damage that two of them can put a player two levels above them down with ease, if you do manage to defeat them the exp you get is pathetic. We're now being out-levelled by quests in every stage of the game because they nerfed the quest exp as well. Desperately hoping they see sense before release and restore some of the exp and reduce the strength of the mobs to more reasonable levels.

  • ManchineManchine Member UncommonPosts: 469
    Originally posted by korat102

    Originally posted by Manchine


    Feels like a MMO to me.

     

    Certainly does now after the massive exp nerf and mob strength boost in the latest patch. Minion type mobs far below your level now do so much damage that two of them can put a player two levels above them down with ease, if you do manage to defeat them the exp you get is pathetic. We're now being out-levelled by quests in every stage of the game because they nerfed the quest exp as well. Desperately hoping they see sense before release and restore some of the exp and reduce the strength of the mobs to more reasonable levels.



     

    I am still fighting things 3 levels AND higher above me.  Go figure.  There are some things I am even ranked and fighting things.  Just depends on the build.

    As for the exp.  I have yet to run out of missions and they needed to lower the EXP.  When you can level someone to 20 in 10 hours.  Thats a lot of exp they shouldn't be giving out.  Alrhough 1/2 exp is a little to much probable would of gone with 60%.

    image

  • HerodesHerodes Member UncommonPosts: 1,494


    Originally posted by page

       Eve Online, never tested it, not my style of mmo, I think it's very social (10 out of 10)
     
     

    I had to smile, because you talked about random grouping in a loot-PvP game.
  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Title says it all. Still early in beta but so far game comes across as an action game with multiplayer. 

    That was pretty much the impression I formed too.

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935

    I enjoyed the OB much like I enjoyed the OB for Tabula Rasa.  I think there are a lot of parallels between the two games..which is what worries me.  TR was a very fun action game that encourage very little outside of the solo action; I fear that CO is following the same path.  It's too bad because I really enjoyed the PnP and the game does have a lot of potential.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Manchine


    Feels like a MMO to me.  Looks like its just you.

    Oooh! Shut me down with that argument!

    Check the thread. Its not just me.

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,034

    I'd like to think that the qualifier for being an MMO isn't being surrounded by people you never invited to join you everywhere you go.

    Maybe I'm antisocial, but even though I don't think this is a spectacular game, I wouldn't see even a completely privately-instanced game as any less of an MMO than a totally open sandbox world like EVE (which I love, mind you).

    Favorites: EQEVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by Saerain


    I'd like to think that the qualifier for being an MMO isn't being surrounded by people you never invited to join you everywhere you go.
    Maybe I'm antisocial, but even though I don't think this is a spectacular game, I wouldn't see even a completely privately-instanced game as any less of an MMO than a totally open sandbox world like EVE (which I love, mind you).

    I agree to a certain degree. But thats isn't what I'm talking about. So far, and as I've said before, and I'll repeat myself, Its just beta and I'm still starting out, but there doesn't seem to be any social aspect to the game at all. Its seems to be a strict action title. Now that doesn't make it a bad game, in fact it is a lot of fun (so back off fanbois) but without a social aspect (if there isn't one), and being heavily instanced, it seems more like a MOG than a MMORPG.  Reminds more more of battlenet than an MMO. Not critiquing the game, just quibbling over it classification.

  • banthisbanthis Member Posts: 1,891

    I guess thats just where differences of opinion and wants and needs come in.  Not everyone needs to be surrounded by yacking yackers at all times to feel that an MMO is an MMO.   Massive Multiplayer doesn't necessarily to me mean I need to be forced into social activity 24/7 infact im pretty sure MMO is not MSAO  (massive social activity online).    There's massive amounts of players...all playing the same game together..its pretty much what an MMO is...the social aspect is a side effect...and yes a welcomed one at times.

    btw CO is not heavily instanced in the way that your making it sound.  ITs 1 server...and when an area gets to full it shards itself off to keep down server lag and what we know would happen the constant bickering fight over mobs and quest items.  Zones and Zone shards are entirely different from instances ala CoH / DDO where the game was nothing but instance missions and you rarely see others from the game except in specific areas.  

    So we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes and MMO feel like an MMO.

    I do agree however that Champions needs to add to the tools in game for social activity liek better grouping tools and maybe a few more quests and bosses that are group dependant at the lower levels.

     

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388
    Originally posted by banthis


    I guess thats just where differences of opinion and wants and needs come in.  Not everyone needs to be surrounded by yacking yackers at all times to feel that an MMO is an MMO.   Massive Multiplayer doesn't necessarily to me mean I need to be forced into social activity 24/7 infact im pretty sure MMO is not MSAO  (massive social activity online).    There's massive amounts of players...all playing the same game together..its pretty much what an MMO is...the social aspect is a side effect...and yes a welcomed one at times.
    btw CO is not heavily instanced in the way that your making it sound.  ITs 1 server...and when an area gets to full it shards itself off to keep down server lag and what we know would happen the constant bickering fight over mobs and quest items.  Zones and Zone shards are entirely different from instances ala CoH / DDO where the game was nothing but instance missions and you rarely see others from the game except in specific areas.  
    So we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes and MMO feel like an MMO.
    I do agree however that Champions needs to add to the tools in game for social activity liek better grouping tools and maybe a few more quests and bosses that are group dependant at the lower levels.
     

    Of course I agree with your initial sentence and in my OP I made it clear that what I was talking about was in regards to my preferences. However the thing is I never said I wanted "yacking yackers" nor did I propose or advocate forced social activity. That would be horrible. If you think that is what I was referring to then you've misunderstood what I wrote.  How come if I say I'd like to see more social activity in the game, that has to be translated into wanting to be surrounded by constant yakkers or a call for forced social activity?

    As far as the shards go, you say its not as heavily instanced as I make it sound then go on to describe the process for shards as being exactly what I was referring too. I understand why they do it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.  The devs chose instancing as a solution to various gameplay problems. But its not the only solution available.

  • NefitiNefiti Member Posts: 25
    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by banthis


    I guess thats just where differences of opinion and wants and needs come in.  Not everyone needs to be surrounded by yacking yackers at all times to feel that an MMO is an MMO.   Massive Multiplayer doesn't necessarily to me mean I need to be forced into social activity 24/7 infact im pretty sure MMO is not MSAO  (massive social activity online).    There's massive amounts of players...all playing the same game together..its pretty much what an MMO is...the social aspect is a side effect...and yes a welcomed one at times.
    btw CO is not heavily instanced in the way that your making it sound.  ITs 1 server...and when an area gets to full it shards itself off to keep down server lag and what we know would happen the constant bickering fight over mobs and quest items.  Zones and Zone shards are entirely different from instances ala CoH / DDO where the game was nothing but instance missions and you rarely see others from the game except in specific areas.  
    So we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes and MMO feel like an MMO.
    I do agree however that Champions needs to add to the tools in game for social activity liek better grouping tools and maybe a few more quests and bosses that are group dependant at the lower levels.
     

    Of course I agree with your initial sentence and in my OP I made it clear that what I was talking about was in regards to my preferences. However the thing is I never said I wanted "yacking yackers" nor did I propose or advocate forced social activity. That would be horrible. If you think that is what I was referring to then you've misunderstood what I wrote.  How come if I say I'd like to see more social activity in the game, that has to be translated into wanting to be surrounded by constant yakkers or a call for forced social activity?

    As far as the shards go, you say its not as heavily instanced as I make it sound then go on to describe the process for shards as being exactly what I was referring too. I understand why they do it. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.  The devs chose instancing as a solution to various gameplay problems. But its not the only solution available.



     

    I dunno is it because the only way they are willing to engage in debate is to twist what others say into something ludicrous and thus enhance their own arguments?  It's an unpleasant approach that some people carry into the way they game too, really puts me off playing at times.

    That said this game feels all about blam. blam, blam, Block, blam, etc. I usually solo a lot but did find myself teaming more than I usually would but the teaming was all about get this mission done, thx all, GL - Bye. I see what you mean by the social aspect lacking. Still it's early days I'd guess with the formation of Supergroups the social aspect would improve.

     

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