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One Class to Rule 'em All!
Larpus
Member Posts: 12
Ok, I gotta say, I was pretty eager to play this game; been playing CoH for 3 years or so now and, while I enjoyed it very much, I was starting to notice the game age (and quite frankly, lack of content lately).
I was actually having fun with this game, dunno, it kinda gives me a feeling of "CoH meets WoW" (not an arguable point, that's how I personally feel about the game).
But after making couple alts, it kind of struck me: I feel like I’m making the same class over and over again!
I’m not saying this due to the classless design, ‘cus, at least in theory, the “classes” would be the powersets; but I can’t help but think that every powerset pretty much feels the same, even when I compare melee and ranged ones, only couple of powers make a difference, but not a big one at all.
I just wanna ask, is there anyone else who feels like this or am I totally missing the point and not seeing something here?
Signatures are for the weak!
Comments
I doubt you're alone, I noticed the same thing. When CoH came out I thought it was nice (especially as everyone says the character creation), this game feels like a very nice CoH2, they made very nice improvements on CoH. But... I just don't feel at all pulled in to play it. It's all very nice from what I've seen, and the various characters I've made, but it feels in some way "generic", the characters do feel too much the same. That may well change at the high levels, but if you don't get some feel for that at the low levels people aren't encouraged to play the game to get there and find out. It's all very nice, seems to run well (for me at least), I saw no bugs, but not something I'm going to buy. I wanted to love this, as I love comic books, used to be a collector (have a nice collection of good indies). I suspect that since there's so much talk along these same lines here on the forums it must be the general feeling people are having which makes me think that there'll be some changes of some kind. That wouldn't be unusual in these games for there to be some strong changes early on in a games release. Saw it in Star Wars -cough- -cough-, Eq2, for examples.....
You’re both right and wrong. At first all the power sets seem alike. But when you reach the upper areas, it turns, you need different powersets versus resistances. Plus there the ranks and damage issue. When you start putting ranks into a power, it makes a big difference and that is where it starts to change.
You’re both right and wrong. At first all the power sets seem alike. But when you reach the upper areas, it turns, you need different powersets versus resistances. Plus there the ranks and damage issue. When you start putting ranks into a power, it makes a big difference and that is where it starts to change.
Yes but do you start feeling like you actually different to the player next to you. All you seem to be talking about here is damage about and making sure you have enough different types to deal with different resistances found in opponents. In CoX term that means getting four different blasters (Psi/Fire/Cold/Electric), great the resistances are covered but they're all still blasters.
I played with the dark powerset and seemed pretty good. I took the hold when I could but was dissappointed at how easily interrupted it was, you have to charge the power to get any effective use out of it and rarely mannaged to do that. Thus I fell back, time and again, to my trusty damage/knockback cone. I was a dimensional blaster.
So do all holds need charging? If not then yes they start looking different. It does from my experience in beta to feel like blasters and scrappers.
Yes but do you start feeling like you actually different to the player next to you. All you seem to be talking about here is damage about and making sure you have enough different types to deal with different resistances found in opponents. In CoX term that means getting four different blasters (Psi/Fire/Cold/Electric), great the resistances are covered but they're all still blasters.
I played with the dark powerset and seemed pretty good. I took the hold when I could but was dissappointed at how easily interrupted it was, you have to charge the power to get any effective use out of it and rarely mannaged to do that. Thus I fell back, time and again, to my trusty damage/knockback cone. I was a dimensional blaster.
So do all holds need charging? If not then yes they start looking different. It does from my experience in beta to feel like blasters and scrappers.
Yeah, that is pretty much how I feel...
To explain a bit better, I made some alts, namely a Sorcery, Power Armor, Gadgeteering, Dual Blades, Might and Munitions.
Now, in CoH (or any MMO I can think of), if you're a ranged character, you want to stay at range since you're paper tissue once someone closes in with you and if you're a melee one, you want to stay close and personal since you have either great resistance or is nimble and hard to harm.
Didn't feel like that at all in CO, since I picked up some decent Con for my ranged dudes, I didn't really care if the enemies were close to me or not, nor I had the means to keep them at a distance if I wanted to (as mentioned, the holds aren't that good or useful here, easier to just kill the enemy faster instead), this came out as far worse with the Power Armor dude, he actually felt more of a tanker than the Might one, which just does not roll in my head.
Also, the Might guy didn't feel mighty at all, not much resistance on him and the powers looked like I was just hurling my arms around without making much sense, where a more boxing feel to them would be nicer.
That said, I'll give them that it was a nice touch to make the Dual Blade powers be cones, 'cus with those fancy moves, they certainly look like cones.
Signatures are for the weak!
Odd I really didn't feel that way. As a matter of fact I got my costumes made and saved for 2 different ranged DPS characters I plan on having in release. One being Force mostly and another being archery/munitions. I definitely do more damage with munitions/archery but have to plan more carefully as to not take on as many enemies. Force I can take on several enemies and the knockback provides a kind of crowd control I can use to keep them at distance, considerably less damage though.
Reason I mixed archery and munitions though is they are quite opposite in a way. Archery has utility and secondary effects while munitions is most just single target or AE damage. Little to no extras. Force set reminds me more of a Defender on CoX than a blaster, with personal force field and buffs.
If your only getting these guys up to say level 10 I would agree though. Not much difference between the sets when just comparing your energy builder and first charge/maintain attack outside of being melee or ranged.
Really don't bother with PvP since they clkearly intend this to be a PvE centered game. If I want PvP I'll play Warhammer or even Aion when it comes out.
My feeling of the early game is that its 'ALL DPS...ALL THE TIME" However I would mention that because much of the game is solo friendly...a lot of the players are focusing on solo. Differences open when you group and tackle things using roles.
Good Luck
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
my witch does not feel at all like my gun guy and my ninja does not feel at all like my hulk/brute guy i love this game you can pick and chose what you want you can make it hard and don't pick a defence power at the start and go all out offence or go the God mode and have little chance to kill anyone in pvp but it will take the hole other team to dent your hp great game i am having a blast
In this game everyone starts in a similar way. You have an endurance builder and a basic attack. Its not until you develop your character over time that the differences become apparent. If all your characters turned out the same then you have only yourself to blame for it because you're the one who built them to be that way.
CC's and heals work fine, but you gotta use them the right way. Holds benefit from Ego and Support Role. Heals benefit from Presence and Support Role.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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intially yes all classes seem the same but as it was mentioned before the ranks and advantages change a lot. As a energy power set i decided to concentrate more on my defensive powers rasiing sheild ranks and procs off more sheild froms my energy buider move. I am extremly hard and annoying to kill and more of a tank then anything else while some one of my power set may concnetrate on more knockback and damage.
Early levels everyone is quite similar. I would say around level 14 is when everyone pulls away from each other.
No, no, not talking about the arena at all, just got a taste of a rather bland gameplay since you can actually make a tankermage.
It is a mix of that feeling and not being sure if they won't be trying to balance/change everything in the upcoming months possibly screwing the whole game or something similar; also worried about this issue as in "will it become boring for me in the long run?".
Anyway, I'll give it a shot for some more levels and see for myself.
Signatures are for the weak!
I felt completely opposite. Every group of powers is new and different. Once I get out of the Starter Areas its all fun and exciting. I like games that are fun. Some people don't some people like WoW, Eve and Aion. Those games seem totally a bore and bland.
Its all in the eye of the beholder... I found some parts of CO more fun then others. I found some parts of CO boring too.
I disagree. Sure, you can pick and choose what powers you want, but unless you have chosen the certain right skills from certain power sets, youre weak. Its quite possible to go from pvp gimp to pvp god simply by using these certain skills, and it has nothing to do with your own input. Theres already a few pvp god builds already in beta - youll fight people whos health never goes down yet they can still dish out some nice damage.
The whole system is so skewed that nobody really specializes in anything, they just choose the best skills from the best power sets and be done with it.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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You're totally missing the point.
The point isn't the gameplay mechanics of the attacks.
The point is what the attacks are. You play a character because he's a Zombie Killer with a Melee Chainsaw, AoE Shotgun, and Fire.
You make a new guy, but he's a talking gorilla who is a Paladin with a Melee Hammer, AoE Slam, and Ice for some reason.
The difference is COMPLETELY! So what if they both have Melee, AoE, and Ice? Those are ENTIRELY different characters, and playing them should be completely different if you actually get into the characters and the roles.
But... I can see what you're saying. If they all play the same... it can get a little repetitive after your 4th character. Maybe your love for character creation, uniqueness, and the fun of playing what your idea of a character was- isnt enough. You're focused more on the mechanics of the game (Im so sorry...)
There's still no reason to feel this way. Every single power in the game is entirely different, even when similar.
1) There's types of attacks (AoE, DoT, Melee, Ranged, Heal, Hold, Knockdown, Defense, Offense, Energy Boost, Block)
2) There are also the side effects of these things. This basically mixes these together: Melee with % Chance of Hold. Melee with 25% Knockdown. Melee with % chance of root. This makes almost every power entirely unique, given the mixes. But let's say there are two attacks that both are melee, and both knockdown. Those are the same!
3) No. They aren't. Why? Special Advantages. There are worlds of differences between a powerful melee attack like Chainsaw and a powerful melee attack like Dual Swords. Chainsaw's special ability is massive damage if they're below 30% health. The other one might be knockdown, a charge which if fulfilled does something special, a % to hold, etc.
I don't see why you feel this way. I could make two entirely similar characters, both melee, both with the exact same type of template (One Single Target, One AoE, Invulnerability, One Knockdown, and One Charge Attack)- but they play entirely different. One could be entirely based on knockdowns and holds. The other? DoT bleed damage and roots. Another based solely on damage, the other balanced. Yet another based on fast damage picking off already-damaged enemies as a "Finisher".
But IMO, the difference between flipping backwards in the air flaring your guns, and pulling the character to you- and throwing a big chain at them and lunging them to the ground towards you wrapped up in chain- is entirely different. But even in gameplay mechanics those two powers are different. One makes you fly away from the opponent, but draws him to melee range- and hits up to 3 targets with massive damage. The other you stay exactly where you are- and pull an opponent towards you with some damage. The former requires the Special Advantage. The latter does something entirely different in Special Advantage.
I disagree. Sure, you can pick and choose what powers you want, but unless you have chosen the certain right skills from certain power sets, youre weak. Its quite possible to go from pvp gimp to pvp god simply by using these certain skills, and it has nothing to do with your own input. Theres already a few pvp god builds already in beta - youll fight people whos health never goes down yet they can still dish out some nice damage.
The whole system is so skewed that nobody really specializes in anything, they just choose the best skills from the best power sets and be done with it.
This will be fixed.
The Devs obviously care, as they constantly made changes during beta to solve the problem.
I remember one day, Defensive powers were so ridiculously overpowered- no one could even damage someone below 99%. Ever.
Then a patch came- and I was killing everyone. Regen was tough, but Invul wasn't invincible anymore, and PFF actually went down (for some reason, it NEVER went down before the patch.)
There were still a few players who were on god-mode, taking 3 damage every hit- and healing that damage faster than they could be hurt- but the devs will fix that as well. They obviously don't want someone to be able to be invincible- literally unable to be killed even with 5 ppl on them.
But most of the time... those ppl were gimped. All they could do is live. They couldn't be killed... but they couldn't kill either.
Mind you... I did meet a few ppl who were both invincible on defense AND offense. Able to never be hurt AND kill others in a few hits- but those were Munchkins who will be nerfed very quickly.
People will also learn you HAVE to have a defensive passive power in PvP to be able to play. Even if they're changed to not be overpowered- most ppl will still need one, or at least some way of surviving via Healing, Escaping, etc.
Teleportation (invisible super fast flying and no fall damage/death prevention ability) > Every other travel power.
Once people realize this everyone will be using the same power.
say thats true , i wont pick it couse i like a handy cap in my chars ... makes good chars plus ireally like game minds me little how old swg was to they ruined it. you pick powers you wont evene can mod the power to ...
I don't see how it can be called classless. I don't think the OPer played enough. One character is for classes alone. You can have a DPS build, tank build, healer/crowd control build, and a balance build for one character.
The biggest issue with CO is that the combat system looks familiar but is actually very different and far more flexible than other MMOs. If you fell like you are making the same build over and over. You probably are.
Sure? I hate teleportation, slow world traveling power, the minimap doesn’t actualize if you teleporting so you will miss all the crafting hubs, and the cool down make it hard to use in combat. In PVP the other players actually see the direction you taking after teleport so they can know where you are going to end your jump and know you can’t jump again.
If I want to run from combat I prefer digging, doesn’t have cool down, not timer. You just make a hole and wait until you heal, no one can target you no one can damage you. It is nice if you are playing with a damage dealer without defensive power.
Acrobatics feels so good in combat, nothing is as good as running around a player shooting him at the same time, or jump around the zones, the best combat power especially if you are use dodge defensive, because you only dodge if you are moving. A very bad world travel power though.
And fly keep you away of the melee enemies, so you get less damage. Teleportation can’t do that unless of course you are running away. Not, at start you can think teleportation is cool.
Superspeed is useless nearly all the time. But of course now it gives you a melee damage buff for using it so some people can use it to get the buff, kill, and run.
But with time you are going to realize that every travel power has advantages and defects and what you want is, as in the other power sets, combine to maximize advantages.
I am very thankful for the 40 bump yesterday. Prior to the 40 bump, my highest super hero was my electricity frameset and I only got to 17 or 18.
I had some serious trouble when I first returned to Millenium City around level 12 or 13. I had probably gone a little to heavy on the DPS and pretty near zero defense. I was hitting real hard, but I was dropping fast.
I designed the hero to be electricty/power armor and heal bots pretty much changed the game for me when I got them around 16, 17 or 18.
Then I got the 40 bump. Wow. That changed everything again. There really are a ton of ways to specialize and they make huge, huge differences. I almost felt like 14 powers were too many. At least if you only stick to a single framework.
I'll be doing a slight redesign on my electricy framework to include some more power armor powers earlier on.
Stop crying in my beer.
Teleportation is not faster than regular flight. The hover effect also wears off very quickly so if you're high enough, you will take falling damage. Rocket boots are the fastest flying power.
You also have to press "T" every 6 seconds to maintain it. Or if you have a G15 keyboard, create a macro to do it for you. Also, even though the power is called Teleportation, you still get stuck behind trees, power lines, world geometry and various other objects. You also take damage while in "wisp" form (what you see when you become invisible to others).
Teleportation is a good "oh shit, gotta go" power, when it works correctly (it's kind of buggy) but as a travel power it's sucky.