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Is it possible they are planning to charge for respecs?
markyturnip
Member UncommonPosts: 837
This is in the realm of speculation right now, but from this thread and others [ http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=38945 ] it seems this game is taking the moronic position of not allowing full respecs.
In a new game where powers are receiving constant and significant changes, where stats are also shifting in terms of what they do... well, this is such an irritating decision that the speculation has begun: could they possibly be thinking that they will, at some stage, charge for respecs as part of their microtransaction model?
Clearly this is not something to get worked up about quite yet, but if this speculation turns out to be on the money, it would be a disgraceful use of the MT + sub model, and a pretty strong reason to boycott this game.
I do hope all this speculation is barking up the wrong tree... but it would be nice to get some kind of official position on this before purchasing the game.
Comments
With their current model, that would make a ton of sense. Then, whenever they are short on funds, they can just dick around with the powers and stats and make everyone respec to boost their incomes a bit.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
What you are missing is the point about what would mean a full respec for this particular game.
I played Lotro. Game has classes. DPS classes, tank classes, etc.
I played CoX (City of Heroes/Villains). Game has classes. DPS classes, tank class, support classes, CC classes, etc
I played some other games. I beta tested/trial most of the p2p from the last 3-4 years.
Now, say you are playing a champion in Lotro (dps). And they give you a full respec. And you can now turn into a healer (minstrel).
Or in CoH, you respec your scrapper (melee dps) and turn into a defender (support class, low dps).
Do you get the point? One thing is to ask to change some powers. Another thing is to ask to change your entire class at will.
CO is a very different game. No classes. You will end up with a mix of styles (dps, support as buffing/debuffing/healing, CC, tanking). You do not need to be just dps. You have 14 powers at level 40. And there is a new game mechanic called ROLE that allows you to switch your focus between DPS - Tanking - Support/CC.
If you want to have a cap-hero that is a superman tank (dps or tank at full potential), and another hero-at-cap that is dps-healer (dps or healer at full potential), ... the list goes on... you can play alts. Dont expect they to give you all the possible combinations of playstyles on one char.
--> buaaaa but I want to have super melee dps, super ranged dps, super healing, super CC, super aggro, super defense. Gimme Gimme Gimme *rolls eyes*
What you are missing is the point about what would mean a full respec for this particular game.
I played Lotro. Game has classes. DPS classes, tank classes, etc.
I played CoX (City of Heroes/Villains). Game has classes. DPS classes, tank class, support classes, CC classes, etc
I played some other games. I beta tested/trial most of the p2p from the last 3-4 years.
Now, say you are playing a champion in Lotro (dps). And they give you a full respec. And you can now turn into a healer (minstrel).
Or in CoH, you respec your scrapper (melee dps) and turn into a defender (support class, low dps).
Do you get the point? One thing is to ask to change some powers. Another thing is to ask to change your entire class at will.
CO is a very different game. No classes. You will end up with a mix of styles (dps, support as buffing/debuffing/healing, CC, tanking). You do not need to be just dps. You have 14 powers at level 40. And there is a new game mechanic called ROLE that allows you to switch your focus between DPS - Tanking - Support/CC.
If you want to have a cap-hero that is a superman tank (dps or tank at full potential), and another hero-at-cap that is dps-healer (dps or healer at full potential), ... the list goes on... you can play alts. Dont expect they to give you all the possible combinations of playstyles on one char.
--> buaaaa but I want to have super melee dps, super ranged dps, super healing, super CC, super aggro, super defense. Gimme Gimme Gimme *rolls eyes*
Which would all make sense, except the powers on offer in this game are still undergoing major changes, and will almost certainly continue to do so.
This means people will be locking themselves into powers that change significantly over time - for which info to make an informed decision is not currently available - and may well discover their character is simply not viable in pvp.
Take one example: at one stage, if you did not have invulnerability or massively enhanced regeneration, you simply could not compete in the hero games. This is no exaggeration... with these powers, you were nigh on invincible, without them you would die non stop and not be able to get a single kill in return. It was that black and white. This did not matter so much as long as you could respec, but would matter hugely if you were locked into a build.
The point about the design of this game, is that this kind of imbalance is likely to crop on more than one occasion - as there are so many variables that there is a lot of inherent unpredictability.
MMOs being as they are, that would lead to a lot of moaning and ill will, and could hurt the game. Imagine then, if on top of this, they announce that respecs are available for a microtransaction.
That could mean, in practice, you may need to pay extra dollars on top of the monthly fee simply to be able to compete.
Again, hope it doesn't pan out this way, but this has the potential of being an issue that causes real problems.
---> ps, please learn not to make insulting insinuations when posting in these forums.
They might do like in CoX, when there is a patch with lots of changes, they might give one free respec per toon.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
and your reasoning is why you shouldnt try to build an FOTM and roll the hero you want based on powers that appeal to you.
Atleast they're one upping on Gold Farmers who make their markets on people who buy alot of expensive respecs for their toons in other games. Not that I'd appreciate the devs taking advantage...though honestly if they do that they'll find themselves out of business or their game crapped on like SWG. You can't be shady and evil like SWG and get away with it. Dev's ...mostly know that...sometimes.
Personally if they're wanting to keep up with WoW in terms of service they'd like give you a free respec if things are changed that deeply but charge you cash if you want to casually respec like WoW is doing with their changing factions option. Its really no different...."Oh this month this faction is popular I think I"ll switch".
I would expect that they will have a respec token you can buy from the cash shop :P
---
Ethion
This just getting downright ridiculous..... NO MMO on the planet allows you to FULL RESPEC from one Class into ANOTHER. Not a single one. No game allows you to take every hour you invested into an avatar and transfer this completely into a different avatar
Not a single one.....
When you get nerfed in a class based title you live with that nerf. You cannot respec a Level 70- Shaman into a Level 70 Druid. The skills that come with that Class stay with you. You can only drop skills given to you via Talents.
No, they are currently consistent with WoW in this regard. In WoW, if you level a shaman to 70 and they nerf your base skills you are screwed. You just reroll. People do this all the time
Sa,e with EVE. People invest years into their avatar and things get nerfed all the time.
No MMO on this earth allows you to change Classes at will. Keep in mind that is all CoX is in the end- players are 'dynamically' building Classes. THus, they must live with their decisions
This is life. You building a superhero. Superman cannot turn into Batman overnight!
What you are missing is the point about what would mean a full respec for this particular game.
I played Lotro. Game has classes. DPS classes, tank classes, etc.
I played CoX (City of Heroes/Villains). Game has classes. DPS classes, tank class, support classes, CC classes, etc
I played some other games. I beta tested/trial most of the p2p from the last 3-4 years.
Now, say you are playing a champion in Lotro (dps). And they give you a full respec. And you can now turn into a healer (minstrel).
Or in CoH, you respec your scrapper (melee dps) and turn into a defender (support class, low dps).
Do you get the point? One thing is to ask to change some powers. Another thing is to ask to change your entire class at will.
CO is a very different game. No classes. You will end up with a mix of styles (dps, support as buffing/debuffing/healing, CC, tanking). You do not need to be just dps. You have 14 powers at level 40. And there is a new game mechanic called ROLE that allows you to switch your focus between DPS - Tanking - Support/CC.
If you want to have a cap-hero that is a superman tank (dps or tank at full potential), and another hero-at-cap that is dps-healer (dps or healer at full potential), ... the list goes on... you can play alts. Dont expect they to give you all the possible combinations of playstyles on one char.
--> buaaaa but I want to have super melee dps, super ranged dps, super healing, super CC, super aggro, super defense. Gimme Gimme Gimme *rolls eyes*
Which would all make sense, except the powers on offer in this game are still undergoing major changes, and will almost certainly continue to do so.
This means people will be locking themselves into powers that change significantly over time - for which info to make an informed decision is not currently available - and may well discover their character is simply not viable in pvp.
Take one example: at one stage, if you did not have invulnerability or massively enhanced regeneration, you simply could not compete in the hero games. This is no exaggeration... with these powers, you were nigh on invincible, without them you would die non stop and not be able to get a single kill in return. It was that black and white. This did not matter so much as long as you could respec, but would matter hugely if you were locked into a build.
The point about the design of this game, is that this kind of imbalance is likely to crop on more than one occasion - as there are so many variables that there is a lot of inherent unpredictability.
MMOs being as they are, that would lead to a lot of moaning and ill will, and could hurt the game. Imagine then, if on top of this, they announce that respecs are available for a microtransaction.
That could mean, in practice, you may need to pay extra dollars on top of the monthly fee simply to be able to compete.
Again, hope it doesn't pan out this way, but this has the potential of being an issue that causes real problems.
---> ps, please learn not to make insulting insinuations when posting in these forums.
This is not true at all. You must have never visited the POWERHOUSE. You can always drop your last 10 choices. So if you felt you had to take a defense passive then you can
Ask me people that skip their defensive passives are pure frakking noobs! You will get mowed down in PVE nonstop as well. I got my regen passive like on my 4th power choice.
Noobs that lack a defense passive die all the time in PVE and they have no 'stars'.
People need to realize it makes no sense to ever skip the passives
Additionally, you can ofc kill people with the passives. I have it and I die in PVP. We are superheroes here we not suppose to die in 5 secs
Unless you have a major money source, you won't be respec'ing your last 10 choices. It costs something ridiculous now. A lot of people can barely afford to respec just one or two points.
So either buy money from a gold farmer...or Cryptic offers respecs via MT's.
Regarding respecs, it might be possible to limit how much you are able to change.
For example, if you were locked into your superstats, talents and energy builder, then the idea of a respec is more reasonable.
Yeah this sucks i just found out they changed it. I could still afford to go back 8 skills and respec though. I had bout 3 plats or whatever they call this currency. To go back 10 steps would've cost me bout 3 plats
So I still think its possible to respec. Additionally, if you work the system carefully, you should be able to push the powers together. This way the powers are 'on top' of the stack while the stats and extra talents remain on bottom
You can buy a respec in CoH for $5.99, so it would stand to reason that they would offer the same thing in CO. Whether or not this is good is determined by a couple things. Do they give respecs for free when they change powers? Do the pay respecs have the same 10 power limitation?
The system is almost setup to force MT respecs, especially with the huge raise in respec costs at the end of beta (and the inability to send money/resources to alts). The cost makes it difficult to re-stack skills to keep certain skills within the 10-respec limit (e.g. skills that you're not certain you want to keep).
Most people will make a mistake on their builds, so that guarantees Cryptic at least 1 MT respec per character. More money for them = win (for them).
Whether Cryptic will make concessions for the fact that powers are in flux until balanced probably depends on how much money they think they can get from people. Even if they do it for the first few months, the skill nerfing/buffing will happen forever because it's an MMO. Look at how much class/skill balance has fluctuated over WoW's lifetime. It encourages people to reroll/respec and extends the lifetime of subs.
If they're going to MT respecs, they certainly won't announce it before they get initial income from launch because they would almost certainly lose buyers if people knew.
Ask me people that skip their defensive passives are pure frakking noobs! You will get mowed down in PVE nonstop as well. I got my regen passive like on my 4th power choice.
Noobs that lack a defense passive die all the time in PVE and they have no 'stars'.
Lol - game hasn't released yet and here you are already spouting insults like 'pure frakking noobs'.
Um.. of course they are noobs, Mr Internet, because they haven't played the game yet. It's a new game.
And this is the point, is it not? These noobs will discover they have gimped their character, and will either have to grind it out all over again, or pay a MT (if this is the direction they are taking). You'll see... this will not be popular.
I simply don't see why games feel like they have to put hard restrictions on something like a respec. It's a game - and a casual-friendly MMO at that - so just let people get their kicks. If you want some kind of restriction to avoid people changing for every instance, limit total respecs to one a day, or one a week, or something... but in general, just let people have their wish fulfillment as trouble free as possible, and they will keep coming back for more.
Throw in pitfalls that cost you hours of levelling only to discover you have 'messed up' and get called a "frakking noob" by the likes of Fancypants here, and you will irritate many players needlessly.
This just getting downright ridiculous..... NO MMO on the planet allows you to FULL RESPEC from one Class into ANOTHER. Not a single one. No game allows you to take every hour you invested into an avatar and transfer this completely into a different avatar
Not a single one.....
When you get nerfed in a class based title you live with that nerf. You cannot respec a Level 70- Shaman into a Level 70 Druid. The skills that come with that Class stay with you. You can only drop skills given to you via Talents.
Your thinking with in a very tiny box. It is thinking like this that is the reason that the genre has seen very little evolution and no revolutionary changes.
It's way too easy to gimp a character in this game. There are thousands of possible builds and many of them will be gimp. Many will be solid, until a few nerfs here and there and if a key nerf if more than ten moves back, gimped. Having such an open, skill based game, with out full re-specs, is just going to result in people sticking to proven, cookie cutter builds, rather than being creative and risk rendering a character pointless.
In other games, if you chose a class, unless the entire class is gimped, you know you what your going to end up with. In class based games with talent trees, you always have a mechanism for a full respec. Here, there is no limited re-spec that makes any sense.
The system should be balanced through expense, with full respecs being cheap up until the mid teens, then more expensive as you get higher. Partial respecs are already balanced with escalating costs, based on how far back you want to go. A typical player should be able to afford a full respec from time to time, with out it being so cheap that people can respec every day of the year.
Your reasoning against respecs is almost completely flawed with in the unique frame work of this game. Much of what you consider negatives are actually positives. Before they nerfed out full respecs and made the partial respecs way too costly, once of the most fun parts of the game was the ability to experiment with different builds.
The fun and play value of this game plummeted when they removed easy access to repecs.
As to the OP, could they be doing this to make respecs a micro-transaction? It wouldn't surprise me. It would be very sad in it's own right, but preferential to them not offering full respecs at all!
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I would imagine that a full respec (of all your skills except the original two) will be available to be earned in-game somehow. It will probably not be easy, but it will be doable. I would also imagine that you will be able to buy one in the store if you really don't want to bother doing it the free way. Furthermore, I would imagine that for a slightly higher price, they will allow you to respec everything including your initial power choices. That would be probably more difficult/expensive.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
If you played within the last couple days, you'll have encountered the 'full respec' button that's actually in the game right now and working properly.
So the functionality for 'full respecs' has been coded. The only question now is what we have to do to get it.
I am pretty sure they will sell full respecs. The only question is whether a Full Respec will be available through other means.
Well according to their claimed rules of microtransactions, anything that would affect gameplay will be obtainable ingame. I think a full respec would be considered enough of an affect on gameplay that it should be available ingame in one form or another.
If they're smart, they'll take the side of caution and put it available via ingame. I could see a large forum argument over whether or not it should count for the 'rule'. Obviously they don't want you respeccing every time a new flavour of the month comes out, but it should be available for those who get tired of their sets or feel they've gimped themselves.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I don't understand this. Maybe I didn't get high level in the Beta.
I had it so I could buy an "Undo" on all my powers when I respec in the power house, it just cost in-game money to undo the early ones, not real $$$.
Are you saying there is some sort of way they will charge me REAL money to respec as my only option?
Chances are they would offer some form of respec (called retconning here) tokens in the game's cash shop. Retconning should not be taken liberally as it can potentially lead to abuse (chances are retcon tokens probably won't be cheap either and have limits). In City of Heroes (another hero game by Cyptic) you only have 3 chances to respec your character and once you have used up those 3 chances the changes to your character are permanent (unless the developers decided to do some major changes to powers and when that happens they usually give you 1 more chance to respec your powers).
You can undo any powers you make just before you leave the powerhouse once you leave the powerhouse your powers becomes permanent and cannot be changed normally.
Mine had an undo button when I respeced.
The ones I had selected in the power house this go-round were free. The others cost in-game currency where the most recent was less expensive than the next and my first powers were very, very expensive.
At least that is how I read the undo power as all the powers were sequentially listed next to a price.
Thats not what you all saw?
There is a difference between limiting how many times you can respec, and charging RL money to do so.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2