Few skills? Read the post (by me) before your reply....
It is a few. Compared to other recent games I have played there is a lot less stuff you are going to use in combat. It's great if having 10 abilities to use is a TON of skills for you, but it really isn't.
Thats the thing you dont get it.
Lets take a example. In Lotro, my loremaster (a CC / debuff class with pets) had 4 bars (or about 40 skills configuration).
My hunter on other hand could be played (combat) with only one bar. The rest was about out-combat skills like traveling, tracking, etc.
Now CO can be played with even less skills than that Lotro hunter. You can have (depending on build) a pretty solid build with 6 core skills. How come?
CO skills usually do not have a cooldown. 0 downtime. You do not need to click power 1, then power 2, then power 3, power 2, power 1, power 4, power..... With no cooldowns, you do not need several powers that do the same thing.
You are coming with a regular MMORPG expectation about skills. To play CO, you need to change it to a action game. More like a console game. Simple because thats how the game is built.
You dont need to like it as some people will and some wont. But if you dont understand it, then you will still think there are too few skills. You may even end up with a built with 12 attacks (at level 40 you will have 14 powers). You will be gimping your build. Instead of variety, you will be wasting power points.
Originally posted by Kabaal Nadril what type of machine were you using to get that low performance, i don't need the low down on every spec just wondering which card and CPU /speed you're running. CO seems highly dependant on CPU speed from what i've seen. On the Ati 4850 increasing the clock speed on the CPU from 3.5 to 4 made me go from 20--25fps to roughly 30-33, on the other hand doing the same with the GTX295 only made me go from 40-50 to 42-53, changing GPU speed on both cards made less than a 5fps difference.. My CPU's are 6850's so i honestly couldn't run them at 4ghz non stop, only for a test, newer CPU's than mine seem to do it fine though. I had another point when i started typing that but right now it escapes me (i wandered off to do something else in between ), but another point would be that my 20-25fps on the 4850 would cause problems somewhere donw the line i'd imagine. Doing Lairs, organised close quarters PvP etc would proabably grind to a halt. Just guess work, but certainly not good enough for a 4850 which athough now cheap is a very good card.You mention not enough skills worthwhile using. Some builds depending on what your staple skills are do have plenty of skill that they use all the time, but others just don't need many. So in a way i half agree with you there as personally i choose a build that requires quite a few.Lightning reflexes is the worst passive out of all the Defensive ones btw. I've no idea what their thinking on that one was unless they were trying to make sure it wasn't as stupidly good as CoH's SR, in which case they went too far.
my specs are as following:
9800M GTS 1GB 4GB DDR3 2.3ghz Core2duo
As far as Lightning reflexes go, it's nice to hear now that it was terrible . It fit in with the rest of my melee abilities so I picked it... I don't even really want to get into something about PvP balance though, I was too frustrated and bored with the way they set it up to figure something out.
Thats the thing you dont get it.
Lets take a example. In Lotro, my loremaster (a CC / debuff class with pets) had 4 bars (or about 40 skills configuration).
My hunter on other hand could be played (combat) with only one bar. The rest was about out-combat skills like traveling, tracking, etc.
Now CO can be played with even less skills than that Lotro hunter. You can have (depending on build) a pretty solid build with 6 core skills. How come?
CO skills usually do not have a cooldown. 0 downtime. You do not need to click power 1, then power 2, then power 3, power 2, power 1, power 4, power..... With no cooldowns, you do not need several powers that do the same thing.
You are coming with a regular MMORPG expectation about skills. To play CO, you need to change it to a action game. More like a console game. Simple because thats how the game is built.
You dont need to like it as some people will and some wont. But if you dont understand it, then you will still think there are too few skills. You may even end up with a built with 12 attacks (at level 40 you will have 14 powers). You will be gimping your build. Instead of variety, you will be wasting power points.
CO is a action game MMORPG. Simple as that.
Meh. The MMOs I have come from are "action oriented" games. In WoW a lot of abilities don't have a CD other than GCD. (I played a Rogue). In Aion the assassin does have CD's, but that is to prevent button mashing skills.
What I don't understand is what is so great about no CD vs a CD? No CD just means that you are going to be spamming that attack (depending on the situation). If I'm in AoE I'll spam my AoE ability, and maybe my root. If I'm in a 1v1 fight I'll spam my single target DPS skill.
Not to mention my melee class had CD's. Two of my attacks both had a 6 second CD. (Dragon charge and some other attack I forget).
A lack of CD does not = action oriented. In Aion it is still very "action oriented" but it does have CD's on spells -- there just is enough to not have to sit and auto attack.
I hate to really bring up Aion because I know people are going to say I'm a troll, but it's really the best example I had.
I really wasn't impressed in my time during the beta. - I had few skills. Even at level 40 I didn't have many abilities. I had myself a buff, a charge up attack, a bleed, an attack that does more damage after the bleed, a sumrmon, a heal, an AoE and a temporary dodge buff. Compared to what I've used in other MMO betas I've played, even in the low levels, it was kind of sad. - Combat felt choppy. This might have been partly an issue due to my shitty FPS I got in game (getting 15 fps even if I go on all lows, and I can play Crysis @ all highs with 30fps? TF2 with 70fps? I mean it's pretty weak) but the combat just was not smooth at all, not what you would expect from an action oriented game. Often times it felt like my auto attack energy builder animation would get in the way of attacks or all kind of stuff. Really, it felt a lot more choppy than even WAR at launch. - PvP felt... bad. The "hero games" were nothing more than DM/TDM matches, save for one which had some VIP ruleset thing. In my experience players had to go a certain build with certain skills in order to survive. You almost always had to have regen. Ice casters seemed to fuck me up with huge stunlocks and burst damage (Doing more damage than I could from a range). Since you can pick any sort of skill set you want without restriction it lends to a lot of imbalanced combos, many of which made my melee oriented character a pain in the ass to play.
The one fun time I had in game was mostly messing with the character creator or messing around in game with a couple of friends. The travel powers are really cool too, even though they also lend to some imbalance.
I just felt like the game wasn't all that polished from my time played in beta and that the PvP was not worth doing at all (even if it is just a side thing). Like I said before too the combat felt fairly one dimensional compared to other MMOs out there as well.
Your post seems credible however to be fair Melees suckj in pretty much any MMO. so I dont know why people make pure Melees here and expect to do well in a game where people can zip around at speed of light
No offense to this poster that just defies all reason and logic period
Think about real life just for one second here. What happens to a guy with a bat that is trying to fight someone with a loaded gun??????
So of course you got beatdown. Anyone with any range will kite and farm ya
I'd love to see guys like you come into games built for PVP and try to come at me with a knife. Take counterstrike, red faction guerilla, or BF2. you will get served I swear there is no way you'll get kills unless you catch them by surprise by jumping them from behind. Now think in an MMO people can zoom out their camera so this just aint gonna work lol
If you're gonna pvp then you gotta think it through all the way.
a) you are playing a game where people LITERALLY move at breakneck speeds. And you are trying to chase them down with your fists? Seriously?!?!
b) if you insist on being a meleer then get powers like Lunge that gets you in range. spec some ranged holds and stuns. Get Teleport so you can get the drop on them
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
None what so ever, this game is not for me. I loved CoH but to me this game should be F2P, I would pay for CoH before paying for this. The graphics are ok at best and the game play is boring, I really hate the shard setup as well. But hey to each his own I wish you luck and hope you find many hours of fun in CO
Definately the other way around for me, CoX should be F2P now.
CO has moved the genre forward with far better graphics and game mechanics.
I personally found CoX's gameplay monotonous, same mission maps but with a slightly different layout and mobs placed in a different corridor.
This ofc is just my opinion.
This is an opinion many will agree upon. Only great thing bout CoX maps is your could adjust difficulty
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW. I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online. I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp? A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp? A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melees are gimp in every MMO. Take away your stealth in WoW your rogue will most likely suck. Recall, the only reason your rogue can get the drop on people is cause they gave you STEALTH. You have element of surprise.
See how real world concepts apply?
didnt play Aion or AO
Ask any pvper worth their salt what they think bout meleers contribution to serious pvp. I know in EVE Online major fleets only reimburse losses for ranged Battleships that can snipe from 150km range
The Hulk my friend is faster than most superhero. same with Superman. Here in CO, you're no faster than a squishy. They can move just as fast as you and they are specced to maintain their energy levels with a travel power active. Melees dont have the max energy to do this unless you knew to build yourself for this
You build your own classes here in this game. You gimped yourself; learn from your error and improve. This game aint gonna babysit your builds for you like the simplier games like Aion / WoW where all you gotta do is level up the Class they give you
Games like EVE / CO will take more thought. Albeit, I agree the PVP features in CO is weak.
Take Guild Wars as well. Meleers also pickup some range there however at least they move faster then squishies and they come with snares. So melee is ok there.
you just gotta think this through or you will get f^&&&^ up hard
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp? A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melees are gimp in every MMO. Take away your stealth in WoW your rogue will most likely suck. Recall, the only reason your rogue can get the drop on people is cause they gave you STEALTH. You have element of surprise.
See how real world concepts apply?
didnt play Aion or AO
Ask any pvper worth their salt what they think bout meleers contribution to serious pvp. I know in EVE Online major fleets only reimburse losses for ranged Battleships that can snipe from 150km range
The Hulk my friend is faster than most superhero. same with Superman. Here in CO, you're no faster than a squishy. They can move just as fast as you and they are specced to maintain their energy levels with a travel power active. Melees dont have the max energy to do this unless you knew to build yourself for this
You build your own classes here in this game. You gimped yourself; learn from your error and improve. This game aint gonna babysit your builds for you like the simplier games like Aion / WoW where all you gotta do is level up the Class they give you
Games like EVE / CO will take more thought. Albeit, I agree the PVP features in CO is weak.
Take Guild Wars as well. Meleers also pickup some range there however at least they move faster then squishies and they come with snares. So melee is ok there.
you just gotta think this through or you will get f^&&&^ up hard
I agree with you 100%. Your toon is YOUR creation, not Cryptics....they just give you a plethora of abilities to choose from and you get to run wild. No cookie cutter builds, identical skills for each class....no class actually...you need to be creative...the more creative you are, the more fun you will have (unless you like using 2 skills all the time).
As for the comment about so many other games granting the use of SO many other skills....I'd really like to know how often you used those skills in those games:
Anarchy Online - 90% of all skills were to be used before you actually went and killed anything....they were all buffs
World of Warcraft - have a level 80 Pally tank that's running Ulduar atm and I havent used 60% of the skills Ive gotten...they are useless...I typically use maybe 6 skills at all times to tank...that's it. rest are buffs
WAR - same as WoW,
Age of Conan - Would have had a very robust skills system had they not made them like Mortal Kombat moves (up, down, left...)
Final Fantasy XI - Talk about cooldowns....wow...I think I clicked "Attack" a little too much
Aion - 10 second cooldowns (takes longer than it sounds) and trash mobs with TOO much HP is not any fun at all....even with the overrated combo system
Ill stop there...im bored now
My toons in CO both had plenty of different skills from different skillsets...
In the end it's up to the end-user to make their toon fun and unique....Cryptic decided it was our turn to control our characters progression and skills...be happy someone did it....Can't wait for early access!!!
I really wasn't impressed in my time during the beta. - I had few skills. Even at level 40 I didn't have many abilities. I had myself a buff, a charge up attack, a bleed, an attack that does more damage after the bleed, a sumrmon, a heal, an AoE and a temporary dodge buff. Compared to what I've used in other MMO betas I've played, even in the low levels, it was kind of sad. - Combat felt choppy. This might have been partly an issue due to my shitty FPS I got in game (getting 15 fps even if I go on all lows, and I can play Crysis @ all highs with 30fps? TF2 with 70fps? I mean it's pretty weak) but the combat just was not smooth at all, not what you would expect from an action oriented game. Often times it felt like my auto attack energy builder animation would get in the way of attacks or all kind of stuff. Really, it felt a lot more choppy than even WAR at launch. - PvP felt... bad. The "hero games" were nothing more than DM/TDM matches, save for one which had some VIP ruleset thing. In my experience players had to go a certain build with certain skills in order to survive. You almost always had to have regen. Ice casters seemed to fuck me up with huge stunlocks and burst damage (Doing more damage than I could from a range). Since you can pick any sort of skill set you want without restriction it lends to a lot of imbalanced combos, many of which made my melee oriented character a pain in the ass to play.
The one fun time I had in game was mostly messing with the character creator or messing around in game with a couple of friends. The travel powers are really cool too, even though they also lend to some imbalance.
I just felt like the game wasn't all that polished from my time played in beta and that the PvP was not worth doing at all (even if it is just a side thing). Like I said before too the combat felt fairly one dimensional compared to other MMOs out there as well.
Your post seems credible however to be fair Melees suckj in pretty much any MMO. so I dont know why people make pure Melees here and expect to do well in a game where people can zip around at speed of light
No offense to this poster that just defies all reason and logic period
Think about real life just for one second here. What happens to a guy with a bat that is trying to fight someone with a loaded gun??????
So of course you got beatdown. Anyone with any range will kite and farm ya
I'd love to see guys like you come into games built for PVP and try to come at me with a knife. Take counterstrike, red faction guerilla, or BF2. you will get served I swear there is no way you'll get kills unless you catch them by surprise by jumping them from behind. Now think in an MMO people can zoom out their camera so this just aint gonna work lol
If you're gonna pvp then you gotta think it through all the way.
a) you are playing a game where people LITERALLY move at breakneck speeds. And you are trying to chase them down with your fists? Seriously?!?!
b) if you insist on being a meleer then get powers like Lunge that gets you in range. spec some ranged holds and stuns. Get Teleport so you can get the drop on them
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
I found teleport and some sticky grenades I could craft through the ARMS crafting worked wonders on my Dual Blades. Sneak up on people and keep them from running away. Plus, there are some enhancements you can purchace for your attacks to root in place.
So, to be honest it is not completely gimped. Just need to really pay attention to what your focus is in the game. Find your weakness and work around it. The game is great for that.
I took a martial arts build and added some ranged artillary to it as well. Probably go better with ICE as I think the recommended stats have some overlap there. Another thing people forget is to look at the recommended stats for powers and make sure that you are not chooseing from pwoer sets that have conflicting stat recommendations. Will cause you more headaches than it is worth.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I must say, having played around with Champion Builder a fair bit, I think they've designed quite a deep system for those who are into building their characters thoughtfully.
There seems to be a lot of subtlety about the way the various powers and roles interact with Super Stats, and the idea of being able to have your characters damage be reflected by WHATEVER stats you choose to min-max for utility or roleplaying reasons, is a real gift to people who really want to get into the game's whole USP - the opportunity to create your own unique superhero and have adventures in a persistent world along with other people who are enjoying the same opportunity.
Effectively, it means it's hard to make a really gimped build - any random build should do respectable damage and have respectable defences. Also, no more problems about being a healer or tank or CC who can't do any damage. Yet, with the roles, it's still possible to specialise for those who really want to get into a more traditional, intermeshing style of team play.
The game tries to have elements to please everybody, and I think going down the action route was clever in that it has a mass appeal. Something is lost by that (I play a Loremaster in LOTRO, and previously have enjoyed Kheldians in CoX, so I know what people mean about complex gameplay and lots of options, I love that too), but if what's gained balances it out, then I can adjust.
None what so ever, this game is not for me. I loved CoH but to me this game should be F2P, I would pay for CoH before paying for this. The graphics are ok at best and the game play is boring, I really hate the shard setup as well. But hey to each his own I wish you luck and hope you find many hours of fun in CO
To be honest, I'm in the same boat. The combat feels nowhere near as epic when you're mashing 1 and occassionaly hitting 2.
I hate that you forced me to say this. Seriously I hate it. But here it goes ...
Learn to Play.
I am sorry you forced me into this. Anyone playing this way at level 40 (which they gave you a free bump to) has no idea what they are doing. You will literally have 1/10 the survivability and 1/10 the DPS. This game is alot like Guild Wars doing smart combination to get energy and damage is really huge. For example do the Flam Chi fist with its advatnage that gives a damage proc, then slash a couple times to get enegery, then do a mommentum builder then do the Cyclone blade. You just hit for a lot of damage then did a tons of procs because cyclone blade hits so often and the momentum buff lets you end cyclone blade with full energy. You would literally 50% the damage of simply doign an energy builddr and some repeatable hit and without momentum cyclone blade takes way too much eneergy and you wouldn't have any.
Add in all the defensive abilites you can combo and this post is radically ignorant. Yeah sure REgen and Heal drones is cruise control. But so is Willpower in CoH. PFF + Field surge(with damage buff) + masterful dodge(with damage buff) + Nanobot (with heal advantage) is like a crazy awesome CoH regen with moment of Glory. REally cool power managment with the ability to take crazy spikes.
Further anyone who says CoH is different than two buttons in the earlier levels is pretty much lying, so if you are talking about the up to level 10 game that is just plain silly.
To be honest, I'm in the same boat. The combat feels nowhere near as epic when you're mashing 1 and occassionaly hitting 2.
At level 40, my average largish pull consisted of using the following skills.
1) Chain Lightning
2) Lightning Arc
3) Thunderstrike
4) Gigabolt
5) Sparkstorm
6) Electrocute
7) Field Surge
8) Force Block
9) Sonic Device
That's not counting my passive or endurance builders, or my travel powers. Each one of those skill does something different and is best used in specific circumstances. I also had some wasted powers from screwing up my build otherwise I'd have been using a couple more things I would have liked to pick up.
I initially had the same worry that I would be pushing 2 buttons all the way to cap. I no longer have that worry.
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp? A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melee aren't gimp, but they generally need more "tools". Things like anti-fly, snares, knockdowns, knockups, holds, etc.
Pretty much what you expect with any game. The reason its "a big issue" in CO is because the game doesn't "force" you to take those type of skills(which would come naturally in a class based game)... so naturally people create weak builds and complain about melee being bad.
I've ran into melee oriented PvP builds. They are nothing to be ignored.
I have mixed feelings, but it's mostly due to two things. Lack of time for me to play and my computer can barely run it at the lowest settings. So, unfortunately, I won't be purchasing the game as it would only collect dust until the day I CAN afford a new gaming rig. I'm by no means faulting the developers for my older computer, but I had to give it a shot just to see what the fuss was all about. So I would turn-up all the settings, make a character (which would take up most of my game time) and ran around smashing things and using the tunnelling ability to get around. That was fun apart from trying to get around certain obstacles. Sadly, I did not get to be that immersed into the game due to the time factor and comp suckage. Will it hit CoH/V hard and take away a lot of it's players? That's something I've been wondering about.
Anyway, if my situation were different I'm sure I'd be jonsin' a bit to play. Games can be terribly addictive afterall.
_______
Now Playing: EQ2 Prior Games (in no order): SWG, L2, RO, PT, ROSE, CoH/CoV, AO, UO, EVE, WoW and a bunch of others. _______
My melee char didn't have that much of a problem against ranged. Then again, I was mixed might and supernatural. But, I had a decent amount of cone attacks that I could enhance to root/snare/remove travel powers. I also had the leap from might that root/snares, then I got the rock throw, and enhanced it to remove travel powers (If someone was flying/jumping/running constantly).
I guess that can be seen as a problem though. It seems that if you are melee, you need to have some sort of CC, or else you end up never catching anyone to give them a proper beatdown.
Back to original topic: thank godness they left the servers open. Last night my bro and I got to play together and we played for hours in Stronghold (L40 pvp). Was funny he was such a nub. He thought the other players were NPCs at first. He did pretty well though
None what so ever, this game is not for me. I loved CoH but to me this game should be F2P, I would pay for CoH before paying for this. The graphics are ok at best and the game play is boring, I really hate the shard setup as well. But hey to each his own I wish you luck and hope you find many hours of fun in CO
Same here.. its just WAAAAAAAY to small and you see tons of 100 people instances and my friends were in one and we had a hard time trying to play together. If you play alone..your in for a good time. But man.. I can see this really killing the game down the line..
I saw some vids for DC U.. that looks to be a littler more fun. It will have PVP all ready set up.. as for ganking and crap.. pffft its not out yet .. but you can have yourself spawn back right there our opt out and get put back well away from them..
Chammpions ONline is just not ready for launch yet. READ their forums.
None what so ever, this game is not for me. I loved CoH but to me this game should be F2P, I would pay for CoH before paying for this. The graphics are ok at best and the game play is boring, I really hate the shard setup as well. But hey to each his own I wish you luck and hope you find many hours of fun in CO
Same here.. its just WAAAAAAAY to small and you see tons of 100 people instances and my friends were in one and we had a hard time trying to play together. If you play alone..your in for a good time. But man.. I can see this really killing the game down the line..
I saw some vids for DC U.. that looks to be a littler more fun. It will have PVP all ready set up.. as for ganking and crap.. pffft its not out yet .. but you can have yourself spawn back right there our opt out and get put back well away from them..
Chammpions ONline is just not ready for launch yet. READ their forums.
The main areas are 4 times bigger then CoH areas largest areas.
kinda funny ignore the few haters and such the game is EASILY better then most games out there and is ready to launch. So yeah read the forums and they will tell you its ready. :rolleyes:
#5- You announce outloud in a booming voice "GO FOR IT!! LAUNCH THE IRONCLAD DEFENSE SYSTEM!" to your friend who wll then say "But, I was just asking if I could have a beer?"
#4- You get on City of Heroes, just to broadcast "Who is going to Champions Online?" to which you'll either hear "I am, lol!", or an AION fanboi or COH Fanboi will tell you to STFU.
#3- You read this forum looking for some sort of non-biased look at this game, yet you've already decided the game is ready for launch.
#2- You are constantly doodling little character concepts.... "Let's see, I am going to make a Empath/Telepath who uses EGO for their damage stat and then its going to increase the severity of their critical, so I need a high dex, which will help me dodge, now let me think, do I want some Force powers in there? okay my guy is going to look like a giant shark dude, and I think I will name him "Shark Dude, man I hope I get more character slots"... because you know you have alt mania and won't be satisfied with just Shark Dude.
#1- You've started seeing the outside world in cel-shaded graphics or worse, you see that the world is NOT cel-shaded and you frown a little. "This is not what I remember the sky looking like? its supposed to be a solid blue, right?" as you try to remember what the outside world was supposed to look like having been hooked on the CO beta.
#5- You say announce outloud in a booming voice "GO FOR IT!! LAUNCH THE IRONCLAD DEFENSE SYSTEM!" to your friend who wll then say "But, I was just asking if I could have a beer?"
#4- You get on City of Heroes, just to broadcast "Who is going to Champions Online?" to which you'll either hear "I am, lol!", or an AION fanboi or COH Fanboi will tell you to STFU.
#3- You read this forum looking for some sort of non-biased look at this game, yet you've already decided the game is ready for launch.
#2- You are constantly doodling little character concepts.... "Let's see, I am going to make a Empath/Telepath who uses EGO for their damage stat and then its going to increase the severity of their critical, so I need a high dex, which will help me dodge, now let me think, do I want some Force powers in there? okay my guy is going to look like a giant shark dude, and I think I will name him "Shark Dude, man I hope I get more character slots"... because you know you have alt mania and won't be satisfied with just Shark Dude.
#1- You've started seeing the outside world in cel-shaded graphics or worse, you see that the world is NOT cel-shaded and you frown a little. "This is not what I remember the sky looking like? its supposed to be a solid blue, right?" as you try to remember what the outside world was supposed to look like having been hooked on the CO beta.
LOL now that is good.
#6 Tells work you have a doctors appointment so you can be at home on time for launch.
Was really fun at first, unluckily i have the rubberband shit totally destroys the game, cant really blame the devs for it i guess but hopefully it can be fixed somehow. Will prolly buy the game at launch cause it was quite entertaining, kinda like Tabula Rasa if anyone played that, prolly the best MMO i ever played and then i hit like lvl 30 and the horizon was empty.
Kinda have the same feeling here, that its gonna be nice to lvl my toon and make it as optimal as possible and then there will only be that empty horizon to look at=(
Playing: CO, C&C and WoW. Played: Tabula Rasa, AoC, War, Aion. Regret Playing: Hellgate: London, EVE.
Comments
It is a few. Compared to other recent games I have played there is a lot less stuff you are going to use in combat. It's great if having 10 abilities to use is a TON of skills for you, but it really isn't.
Thats the thing you dont get it.
Lets take a example. In Lotro, my loremaster (a CC / debuff class with pets) had 4 bars (or about 40 skills configuration).
My hunter on other hand could be played (combat) with only one bar. The rest was about out-combat skills like traveling, tracking, etc.
Now CO can be played with even less skills than that Lotro hunter. You can have (depending on build) a pretty solid build with 6 core skills. How come?
CO skills usually do not have a cooldown. 0 downtime. You do not need to click power 1, then power 2, then power 3, power 2, power 1, power 4, power..... With no cooldowns, you do not need several powers that do the same thing.
You are coming with a regular MMORPG expectation about skills. To play CO, you need to change it to a action game. More like a console game. Simple because thats how the game is built.
You dont need to like it as some people will and some wont. But if you dont understand it, then you will still think there are too few skills. You may even end up with a built with 12 attacks (at level 40 you will have 14 powers). You will be gimping your build. Instead of variety, you will be wasting power points.
CO is a action game MMORPG. Simple as that.
my specs are as following:
9800M GTS 1GB
4GB DDR3
2.3ghz Core2duo
As far as Lightning reflexes go, it's nice to hear now that it was terrible
Meh. The MMOs I have come from are "action oriented" games. In WoW a lot of abilities don't have a CD other than GCD. (I played a Rogue). In Aion the assassin does have CD's, but that is to prevent button mashing skills.
What I don't understand is what is so great about no CD vs a CD? No CD just means that you are going to be spamming that attack (depending on the situation). If I'm in AoE I'll spam my AoE ability, and maybe my root. If I'm in a 1v1 fight I'll spam my single target DPS skill.
Not to mention my melee class had CD's. Two of my attacks both had a 6 second CD. (Dragon charge and some other attack I forget).
A lack of CD does not = action oriented. In Aion it is still very "action oriented" but it does have CD's on spells -- there just is enough to not have to sit and auto attack.
I hate to really bring up Aion because I know people are going to say I'm a troll, but it's really the best example I had.
Your post seems credible however to be fair Melees suckj in pretty much any MMO. so I dont know why people make pure Melees here and expect to do well in a game where people can zip around at speed of light
No offense to this poster that just defies all reason and logic period
Think about real life just for one second here. What happens to a guy with a bat that is trying to fight someone with a loaded gun??????
So of course you got beatdown. Anyone with any range will kite and farm ya
I'd love to see guys like you come into games built for PVP and try to come at me with a knife. Take counterstrike, red faction guerilla, or BF2. you will get served I swear there is no way you'll get kills unless you catch them by surprise by jumping them from behind. Now think in an MMO people can zoom out their camera so this just aint gonna work lol
If you're gonna pvp then you gotta think it through all the way.
a) you are playing a game where people LITERALLY move at breakneck speeds. And you are trying to chase them down with your fists? Seriously?!?!
b) if you insist on being a meleer then get powers like Lunge that gets you in range. spec some ranged holds and stuns. Get Teleport so you can get the drop on them
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
Definately the other way around for me, CoX should be F2P now.
CO has moved the genre forward with far better graphics and game mechanics.
I personally found CoX's gameplay monotonous, same mission maps but with a slightly different layout and mobs placed in a different corridor.
This ofc is just my opinion.
This is an opinion many will agree upon. Only great thing bout CoX maps is your could adjust difficulty
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp?
A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp?
A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melees are gimp in every MMO. Take away your stealth in WoW your rogue will most likely suck. Recall, the only reason your rogue can get the drop on people is cause they gave you STEALTH. You have element of surprise.
See how real world concepts apply?
didnt play Aion or AO
Ask any pvper worth their salt what they think bout meleers contribution to serious pvp. I know in EVE Online major fleets only reimburse losses for ranged Battleships that can snipe from 150km range
The Hulk my friend is faster than most superhero. same with Superman. Here in CO, you're no faster than a squishy. They can move just as fast as you and they are specced to maintain their energy levels with a travel power active. Melees dont have the max energy to do this unless you knew to build yourself for this
You build your own classes here in this game. You gimped yourself; learn from your error and improve. This game aint gonna babysit your builds for you like the simplier games like Aion / WoW where all you gotta do is level up the Class they give you
Games like EVE / CO will take more thought. Albeit, I agree the PVP features in CO is weak.
Take Guild Wars as well. Meleers also pickup some range there however at least they move faster then squishies and they come with snares. So melee is ok there.
you just gotta think this through or you will get f^&&&^ up hard
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp?
A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melees are gimp in every MMO. Take away your stealth in WoW your rogue will most likely suck. Recall, the only reason your rogue can get the drop on people is cause they gave you STEALTH. You have element of surprise.
See how real world concepts apply?
didnt play Aion or AO
Ask any pvper worth their salt what they think bout meleers contribution to serious pvp. I know in EVE Online major fleets only reimburse losses for ranged Battleships that can snipe from 150km range
The Hulk my friend is faster than most superhero. same with Superman. Here in CO, you're no faster than a squishy. They can move just as fast as you and they are specced to maintain their energy levels with a travel power active. Melees dont have the max energy to do this unless you knew to build yourself for this
You build your own classes here in this game. You gimped yourself; learn from your error and improve. This game aint gonna babysit your builds for you like the simplier games like Aion / WoW where all you gotta do is level up the Class they give you
Games like EVE / CO will take more thought. Albeit, I agree the PVP features in CO is weak.
Take Guild Wars as well. Meleers also pickup some range there however at least they move faster then squishies and they come with snares. So melee is ok there.
you just gotta think this through or you will get f^&&&^ up hard
I agree with you 100%. Your toon is YOUR creation, not Cryptics....they just give you a plethora of abilities to choose from and you get to run wild. No cookie cutter builds, identical skills for each class....no class actually...you need to be creative...the more creative you are, the more fun you will have (unless you like using 2 skills all the time).
As for the comment about so many other games granting the use of SO many other skills....I'd really like to know how often you used those skills in those games:
Anarchy Online - 90% of all skills were to be used before you actually went and killed anything....they were all buffs
World of Warcraft - have a level 80 Pally tank that's running Ulduar atm and I havent used 60% of the skills Ive gotten...they are useless...I typically use maybe 6 skills at all times to tank...that's it. rest are buffs
WAR - same as WoW,
Age of Conan - Would have had a very robust skills system had they not made them like Mortal Kombat moves (up, down, left...)
Final Fantasy XI - Talk about cooldowns....wow...I think I clicked "Attack" a little too much
Aion - 10 second cooldowns (takes longer than it sounds) and trash mobs with TOO much HP is not any fun at all....even with the overrated combo system
Ill stop there...im bored now
My toons in CO both had plenty of different skills from different skillsets...
In the end it's up to the end-user to make their toon fun and unique....Cryptic decided it was our turn to control our characters progression and skills...be happy someone did it....Can't wait for early access!!!
Your post seems credible however to be fair Melees suckj in pretty much any MMO. so I dont know why people make pure Melees here and expect to do well in a game where people can zip around at speed of light
No offense to this poster that just defies all reason and logic period
Think about real life just for one second here. What happens to a guy with a bat that is trying to fight someone with a loaded gun??????
So of course you got beatdown. Anyone with any range will kite and farm ya
I'd love to see guys like you come into games built for PVP and try to come at me with a knife. Take counterstrike, red faction guerilla, or BF2. you will get served I swear there is no way you'll get kills unless you catch them by surprise by jumping them from behind. Now think in an MMO people can zoom out their camera so this just aint gonna work lol
If you're gonna pvp then you gotta think it through all the way.
a) you are playing a game where people LITERALLY move at breakneck speeds. And you are trying to chase them down with your fists? Seriously?!?!
b) if you insist on being a meleer then get powers like Lunge that gets you in range. spec some ranged holds and stuns. Get Teleport so you can get the drop on them
This is the facts. you make your own Class here no one told ya to go gimp yourself lol.
I found teleport and some sticky grenades I could craft through the ARMS crafting worked wonders on my Dual Blades. Sneak up on people and keep them from running away. Plus, there are some enhancements you can purchace for your attacks to root in place.
So, to be honest it is not completely gimped. Just need to really pay attention to what your focus is in the game. Find your weakness and work around it. The game is great for that.
I took a martial arts build and added some ranged artillary to it as well. Probably go better with ICE as I think the recommended stats have some overlap there. Another thing people forget is to look at the recommended stats for powers and make sure that you are not chooseing from pwoer sets that have conflicting stat recommendations. Will cause you more headaches than it is worth.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I must say, having played around with Champion Builder a fair bit, I think they've designed quite a deep system for those who are into building their characters thoughtfully.
There seems to be a lot of subtlety about the way the various powers and roles interact with Super Stats, and the idea of being able to have your characters damage be reflected by WHATEVER stats you choose to min-max for utility or roleplaying reasons, is a real gift to people who really want to get into the game's whole USP - the opportunity to create your own unique superhero and have adventures in a persistent world along with other people who are enjoying the same opportunity.
Effectively, it means it's hard to make a really gimped build - any random build should do respectable damage and have respectable defences. Also, no more problems about being a healer or tank or CC who can't do any damage. Yet, with the roles, it's still possible to specialise for those who really want to get into a more traditional, intermeshing style of team play.
The game tries to have elements to please everybody, and I think going down the action route was clever in that it has a mass appeal. Something is lost by that (I play a Loremaster in LOTRO, and previously have enjoyed Kheldians in CoX, so I know what people mean about complex gameplay and lots of options, I love that too), but if what's gained balances it out, then I can adjust.
meleers were pretty strong until they nerfed all their tanking abilities in PvP
Well... I am almost always attached to my main chars in any MMO. Leaving one behind even in a bad game is always hard for me, haha. ^^()
I liked some parts of CO enough, but I still think better wait a few months to work out the issues.
To be honest, I'm in the same boat. The combat feels nowhere near as epic when you're mashing 1 and occassionaly hitting 2.
I hate that you forced me to say this. Seriously I hate it. But here it goes ...
Learn to Play.
I am sorry you forced me into this. Anyone playing this way at level 40 (which they gave you a free bump to) has no idea what they are doing. You will literally have 1/10 the survivability and 1/10 the DPS. This game is alot like Guild Wars doing smart combination to get energy and damage is really huge. For example do the Flam Chi fist with its advatnage that gives a damage proc, then slash a couple times to get enegery, then do a mommentum builder then do the Cyclone blade. You just hit for a lot of damage then did a tons of procs because cyclone blade hits so often and the momentum buff lets you end cyclone blade with full energy. You would literally 50% the damage of simply doign an energy builddr and some repeatable hit and without momentum cyclone blade takes way too much eneergy and you wouldn't have any.
Add in all the defensive abilites you can combo and this post is radically ignorant. Yeah sure REgen and Heal drones is cruise control. But so is Willpower in CoH. PFF + Field surge(with damage buff) + masterful dodge(with damage buff) + Nanobot (with heal advantage) is like a crazy awesome CoH regen with moment of Glory. REally cool power managment with the ability to take crazy spikes.
Further anyone who says CoH is different than two buttons in the earlier levels is pretty much lying, so if you are talking about the up to level 10 game that is just plain silly.
At level 40, my average largish pull consisted of using the following skills.
1) Chain Lightning
2) Lightning Arc
3) Thunderstrike
4) Gigabolt
5) Sparkstorm
6) Electrocute
7) Field Surge
8) Force Block
9) Sonic Device
That's not counting my passive or endurance builders, or my travel powers. Each one of those skill does something different and is best used in specific circumstances. I also had some wasted powers from screwing up my build otherwise I'd have been using a couple more things I would have liked to pick up.
I initially had the same worry that I would be pushing 2 buttons all the way to cap. I no longer have that worry.
So I gimp myself because I want to play as a melee archetype? Un-fucking-believable XD.
I'm not gimp when I play my rogue or warrior in WoW.
I'm not gimp when I play my enforcer in Anarchy Online.
I'm not gimp when I play my assassin in Aion.
Yet I'm gimp because I want to play as a melee player? They're superheroes and yet you try and use a "real world" example. What about the hulk? Is he a gimp because he is melee only? Or the juggernaut, is he a gimp?
A hell of a lot of superheroes are melee oriented ;p.
Melee super heroes not being viable is just silly. Defending this fact is downright stupid. Do you really want it to be a game where people are just flying around pewpewing at others?
Hopefully your post is wrong, because if melee was really that gimp it would be a really sad fact.
Melee aren't gimp, but they generally need more "tools". Things like anti-fly, snares, knockdowns, knockups, holds, etc.
Pretty much what you expect with any game. The reason its "a big issue" in CO is because the game doesn't "force" you to take those type of skills(which would come naturally in a class based game)... so naturally people create weak builds and complain about melee being bad.
I've ran into melee oriented PvP builds. They are nothing to be ignored.
I have mixed feelings, but it's mostly due to two things. Lack of time for me to play and my computer can barely run it at the lowest settings. So, unfortunately, I won't be purchasing the game as it would only collect dust until the day I CAN afford a new gaming rig. I'm by no means faulting the developers for my older computer, but I had to give it a shot just to see what the fuss was all about. So I would turn-up all the settings, make a character (which would take up most of my game time) and ran around smashing things and using the tunnelling ability to get around. That was fun apart from trying to get around certain obstacles. Sadly, I did not get to be that immersed into the game due to the time factor and comp suckage. Will it hit CoH/V hard and take away a lot of it's players? That's something I've been wondering about.
Anyway, if my situation were different I'm sure I'd be jonsin' a bit to play. Games can be terribly addictive afterall.
_______
Now Playing:
EQ2
Prior Games (in no order):
SWG, L2, RO, PT, ROSE, CoH/CoV, AO, UO, EVE, WoW and a bunch of others.
_______
After playing the game for 5 months I am looking forward to making a character that won't be wiped.
My melee char didn't have that much of a problem against ranged. Then again, I was mixed might and supernatural. But, I had a decent amount of cone attacks that I could enhance to root/snare/remove travel powers. I also had the leap from might that root/snares, then I got the rock throw, and enhanced it to remove travel powers (If someone was flying/jumping/running constantly).
I guess that can be seen as a problem though. It seems that if you are melee, you need to have some sort of CC, or else you end up never catching anyone to give them a proper beatdown.
Back to original topic: thank godness they left the servers open. Last night my bro and I got to play together and we played for hours in Stronghold (L40 pvp). Was funny he was such a nub. He thought the other players were NPCs at first. He did pretty well though
Now I am having withdrawal. I wannna play. I don't get to play until tomarrow. =(
Same here.. its just WAAAAAAAY to small and you see tons of 100 people instances and my friends were in one and we had a hard time trying to play together. If you play alone..your in for a good time. But man.. I can see this really killing the game down the line..
I saw some vids for DC U.. that looks to be a littler more fun. It will have PVP all ready set up.. as for ganking and crap.. pffft its not out yet .. but you can have yourself spawn back right there our opt out and get put back well away from them..
Chammpions ONline is just not ready for launch yet. READ their forums.
Same here.. its just WAAAAAAAY to small and you see tons of 100 people instances and my friends were in one and we had a hard time trying to play together. If you play alone..your in for a good time. But man.. I can see this really killing the game down the line..
I saw some vids for DC U.. that looks to be a littler more fun. It will have PVP all ready set up.. as for ganking and crap.. pffft its not out yet .. but you can have yourself spawn back right there our opt out and get put back well away from them..
Chammpions ONline is just not ready for launch yet. READ their forums.
The main areas are 4 times bigger then CoH areas largest areas.
kinda funny ignore the few haters and such the game is EASILY better then most games out there and is ready to launch. So yeah read the forums and they will tell you its ready. :rolleyes:
Signs you are having CO Beta Withdrawals
#5- You announce outloud in a booming voice "GO FOR IT!! LAUNCH THE IRONCLAD DEFENSE SYSTEM!" to your friend who wll then say "But, I was just asking if I could have a beer?"
#4- You get on City of Heroes, just to broadcast "Who is going to Champions Online?" to which you'll either hear "I am, lol!", or an AION fanboi or COH Fanboi will tell you to STFU.
#3- You read this forum looking for some sort of non-biased look at this game, yet you've already decided the game is ready for launch.
#2- You are constantly doodling little character concepts.... "Let's see, I am going to make a Empath/Telepath who uses EGO for their damage stat and then its going to increase the severity of their critical, so I need a high dex, which will help me dodge, now let me think, do I want some Force powers in there? okay my guy is going to look like a giant shark dude, and I think I will name him "Shark Dude, man I hope I get more character slots"... because you know you have alt mania and won't be satisfied with just Shark Dude.
#1- You've started seeing the outside world in cel-shaded graphics or worse, you see that the world is NOT cel-shaded and you frown a little. "This is not what I remember the sky looking like? its supposed to be a solid blue, right?" as you try to remember what the outside world was supposed to look like having been hooked on the CO beta.
LOL now that is good.
#6 Tells work you have a doctors appointment so you can be at home on time for launch.
Was really fun at first, unluckily i have the rubberband shit totally destroys the game, cant really blame the devs for it i guess but hopefully it can be fixed somehow. Will prolly buy the game at launch cause it was quite entertaining, kinda like Tabula Rasa if anyone played that, prolly the best MMO i ever played and then i hit like lvl 30 and the horizon was empty.
Kinda have the same feeling here, that its gonna be nice to lvl my toon and make it as optimal as possible and then there will only be that empty horizon to look at=(
Playing: CO, C&C and WoW.
Played: Tabula Rasa, AoC, War, Aion.
Regret Playing: Hellgate: London, EVE.