Originally posted by rentantilus Alright, kids. Talk to me at the end of next year, after you've bought Guild Wars for $40-$50 as well as two or three expansions for $30-$45 each. Then we'll revisit this conversation about the myth that Guild Wars is free to play. And if you didn't buy the expansions, we'll chat about how your pathetic characters, while maxed out in level, get bitch slapped on a regular basis by characters half your level who bought the expansions. I hate to admit it, but I've been right about every prediction I've ever made about the MMORPG industry. (more and more people wanting "real" aspects like permadeath and level-less systems in future games, Star Wars Galaxies sucking despite the millions of dollars they spent on hype, City of Heroes becoming boring and redundant after the first few months, Planetside being a dead-end game with no overall goal, games that are nothing like EverQuest still doing very well (like Eve Online and A Tale In The Desert) even though they break from the status quo, no Korean MMORPG really succeeding in the USA, etc. I've also predicted the bombing of Asheron's Call 2, Knight Online, The Saga of Ryzom, all of which have come true.) I'm not a psychic, children. All I'm doing is paying attention to the industry and how it flows. If you shut your fanboy mouths and put your pre-teen angst on hold for five minutes, you'd see it, too.
__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
dude, hate to break this to you, but its not cool being as old as i guess you are and playing video games. Dont you have a job, wife, kids, and other family type responsbilities at that point in your life than spending your free time playing games? I mean its one thing to be an adult playing games, but its another thiing entirely to be an adult condescending kids for playing video games. Thats just backwards, cant you see that? And your going to brag about it? lol
Furthermore, you have possibly one of the worst opinions on this forum. Your the guy championing Eve as the best mmorpg out there, if thats being 'right', then your obviously too naive to know when your wrong. Tons of people here have tried it and came away that it sucked, and yet you seem to think your 'always right'. At what point do you realize when your wrong? just curious. Even then acting like 'everyone wants permadeath' goes to show how out of reality you are, not sure if your really this naive, or just trying to get on peoples nerves, but its just silly how full of your own opinion you are, and then claim to act like 'your' opinion is everyone elses, when its obvioius your opinions tend to represent the slim minority of players, at the very best a niche
Not sure why anyone would listen to a thing you had to say at this point unless they loved Eve and think permadeath is the end all be all. That would be like a handful of people that actually had the same taste you do, which in my book i'd call just really bad taste in games. Sorry if the truth hurts
Well rent ... you really have some pretty subjective assessments of what constitutes failure or success and what sucks or not Sort of easy to win the war when you just declare victory under your own standards
BTW, I really don't think there's anyone here too stupid to understand that if they don't buy the GW expansions they won't have all the neat stuff
OTOH, rohbshop, it's really not right to attack the guy like that because you disagree with his opinions. You've got some pretty low stuff there. Some of you here really need to learn how to disagree with someone without attacking them as a person.
Originally post kids. Talk to me at the end of next year, after you've bought Guild Wars for $40-$50 as well as two or three expansions for $30-$45 each. Then we'll revisit this conversation about the myth that Guild Wars is free to play. And if you didn't buy the expansions, we'll chat about how your pathetic characters, while maxed out in level, get bitch slapped on a regular basis by characters half your level who bought the expansions. I hate to admit it, but I've been right about every prediction I've ever made about the MMORPG industry. (more and more people wanting "real" aspects like permadeath and level-less systems in future games, Star Wars Galaxies sucking despite the millions of dollars they spent on hype, City of Heroes becoming boring and redundant after the first few months, Planetside being a dead-end game with no overall goal, games that are nothing like EverQuest still doing very well (like Eve Online and A Tale In The Desert) even though they break from the status quo, no Korean MMORPG really succeeding in the USA, etc. I've also predicted the bombing of Asheron's Call 2, Knight Online, The Saga of Ryzom, all of which have come true.) I'm not a psychic, children. All I'm doing is paying attention to the industry and how it flows. If you shut your fanboy mouths and put your pre-teen angst on hold for five minutes, you'd see it, too.
__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
dude, hate to break this to you, but its not cool being as old as i guess you are and playing video games. Dont you have a job, wife, kids, and other family type responsbilities at that point in your life than spending your free time playing games? I mean its one thing to be an adult playing games, but its another thiing entirely to be an adult condescending kids for playing video games. Thats just backwards, cant you see that? And your going to brag about it? lol
Furthermore, you have possibly one of the worst opinions on this forum. Your the guy championing Eve as the best mmorpg out there, if thats being 'right', then your obviously too naive to know when your wrong. Tons of people here have tried it and came away that it sucked, and yet you seem to think your 'always right'. At what point do you realize when your wrong? just curious. Even then acting like 'everyone wants permadeath' goes to show how out of reality you are, not sure if your really this naive, or just trying to get on peoples nerves, but its just silly how full of your own opinion you are, and then claim to act like 'your' opinion is everyone elses, when its obvioius your opinions tend to represent the slim minority of players, at the very best a niche
Not sure why anyone would listen to a thing you had to say at this point unless they loved Eve and think permadeath is the end all be all. That would be like a handful of people that actually had the same taste you do, which in my book i'd call just really bad taste in games. Sorry if the truth hurts
Well said.
- He Who Fears Death Is In Denial, For Death Is Promised. -
- He Who Fears Death Is In Denial, For Death Is Promised. -
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Originally posted by Wickes Well rent ... you really have some pretty subjective assessments of what constitutes failure or success and what sucks or not Sort of easy to win the war when you just declare victory under your own standards BTW, I really don't think there's anyone here too stupid to understand that if they don't buy the GW expansions they won't have all the neat stuff OTOH, rohbshop, it's really not right to attack the guy like that because you disagree with his opinions. You've got some pretty low stuff there. Some of you here really need to learn how to disagree with someone without attacking them as a person.
Name one thing i stated that was untrue, just one, and i'm not playing the politically correct game w/ ya about everyones opinion being right If anything i told him the reality of things correcting his own version of reality. I even apologized about breaking it to him. My guess is he knew where his opinion stood all along, and was just being arrogant to get on the peoples nerves he was arguing with in this thread.
Anyhow, he'll probably rationalize it like the masses are just followers and play bad games because theyre just followers. And how his opinioin is still right, because he knows better than everyone else. Dont think how harsh you think i was changed much
Heres a bit of information you missed when you went to gradeschool, wait no, kindergarden: people have different opinions. Every person out there want something different, be it a minor or major difference, in a game, if they play them at all. That is why so many games come out with all these differences and such. I have beta tested and played almsot every game out there, mostly for short spells, but just so I would have the experience and knowledge necessary to back any claims on this formum if I ever decide to post. Asherons Call 2 is not a bad game, it is, in fact, quite a well made game, excelent game play, excelent skill system, combat system, etc, the only thing that made it unsucessfull was the fact that they didnt advertise at the beginning, and the launch wasnt the greatest ever seen. Other games that you have boasted are failures are not. People still play them, they made the money back that they spent on it, I wouldnt call that a failure, nor would I call it a sucess, but certainly not the latter. City of Heros was never designed for the hard core gamer, or whatver term you prefer. It speciffically has said on multiple forums, dev chats, etc that this was targeting the casual gamer, and if you are such, then this game is amazing. So please, remember to keep your mouth shut on subjects that you "think" you know something about but really dont know anything about. You only make yourself look stupid.
This is the beginning of my past. This is the end of my journey.
This is the beginning of my past. This is the end of my journey.
Originally posted by Krimson Heres a bit of information you missed when you went to gradeschool, wait no, kindergarden: people have different opinions. Every person out there want something different, be it a minor or major difference, in a game, if they play them at all. That is why so many games come out with all these differences and such. I have beta tested and played almsot every game out there, mostly for short spells, but just so I would have the experience and knowledge necessary to back any claims on this formum if I ever decide to post. Asherons Call 2 is not a bad game, it is, in fact, quite a well made game, excelent game play, excelent skill system, combat system, etc, the only thing that made it unsucessfull was the fact that they didnt advertise at the beginning, and the launch wasnt the greatest ever seen. Other games that you have boasted are failures are not. People still play them, they made the money back that they spent on it, I wouldnt call that a failure, nor would I call it a sucess, but certainly not the latter. City of Heros was never designed for the hard core gamer, or whatver term you prefer. It speciffically has said on multiple forums, dev chats, etc that this was targeting the casual gamer, and if you are such, then this game is amazing. So please, remember to keep your mouth shut on subjects that you "think" you know something about but really dont know anything about. You only make yourself look stupid.
This is the beginning of my past. This is the end of my journey.
'different' is a politically correct term to validate a persons minority opinion. 'Different' can mean good or bad different, usually subjective to the person speaking. However, what usually constitutes 'different' in the context of good or bad is how different that opinion is in relation to the masses that play games. For example, if you were hired as a Game Reviewer for an official website, would it be a good thing to hire someone writing reviews whos opinions generally appeal to the slim minority? Of course not. Its the same in reccomending games to people, people with 'different' opinions as you'd rather call it will likely let more people down in terms fo the advice they give than people that arent too 'different' from most people.
Theres also something said for 'niche' audiences. There are people into niches in mmorpg's like crafting, but again niches usually imply a minority opinioin and the games niche is usually emphasized when a reviewer or person giving advice to try the game is written. Theres also just bad opinion. However politically correct(I really hate how far political correctness has gone with some people this day ad age) some people want to be, when an opinion leans so far to the minority when so many have tried it, it usually IS a bad opinion. Some of you have played Horizons, some of you havent, but i can tell you it was probably THE worst mmorpg i've ever played. It had every problem every mmorpg's had all rolled up into one prematurely released game. And yet, there were still a handful of people that swore by it as the best mmorpg ever. This is why i dont play that politically correct game some of you do, and act like everyones opinion is right, no they arent, there are good opinions and bad ones and the masses usually constitute what defines that. The problem is most people are too egocentric to realize where their opinion stands in the big picture, and overly full of it.
I've played AC2 and it was awful, i played the free trial. I can start with no loot drops, all crafter-based economy(not sure about these days at least), and it was ugly. If you loved AC2, no offense but i doubt anyone will be hiring you to write reviews for the general public, or most people will want to take your advice on what to play ...and sorry to be so blunt but honestly i REALLY hate the political correctness that everyone is right when thats just not true.
Originally posted by rohbshop dude, hate to break this to you, but its not cool being as old as i guess you are and playing video games. Dont you have a job, wife, kids, and other family type responsbilities at that point in your life than spending your free time playing games? I mean its one thing to be an adult playing games, but its another thiing entirely to be an adult condescending kids for playing video games. Thats just backwards, cant you see that? And your going to brag about it? lol
You think it's 18-25 year old kids that pitch, design, program, launch, update, and maintain MMORPGs? I've got the English degree done, now I'm working on the programming degree; within the next 2 years, I plan on either working for or developing my own MMORPG. That's why I play them and have such strong opinions. Also, I don't call you "kids" and "children" because of how old you might actually be. I call you that because of how you speak and behave.
__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
then go design ur own mmorpg and stop thinking that all u say its right...theres a first time for everything
Originally posted by Wickes Well rent ... you really have some pretty subjective assessments of what constitutes failure or success and what sucks or not Sort of easy to win the war when you just declare victory under your own standards
I was hoping some of you would piece together the relativity of my statements. When I say that A Tale In The Desert is successful, but Star Wars Galaxies isn't, of course I'm not refering to raw subscription numbers. My point was that SWG spent literally millions of dollars on advertising, yet it managed to attract and keep a microscopic sliver of the fan base they thought it would achieve. In comparison, ATitD has only a few thousand subscribers, but that's phenomenal progress for a few guys creating an online game in their garage.
By way of comparison, SWG sunk more money into advertising than ATitD spent on their entire development process, including equipment, salaries, and marketing. SWG is probably making around 5% of their money back per month, whereas ATitD is probably raking in about 3000% of their total development cost each month. At that rate, ATitD will continue to grow (they just put out the second release of their game), while SWG will continue to shrink and be inevitably cut from SOE's lineup sometime in the next year or two. When you consider longevity, which one is the "success" and which one is the "failure?"
__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
exactly, SWG was a huge disappointment with all the hype. The problem is you seem to apply that to all hyped games acting like theyre all SWG. You should really look at them on a case by case basis. SWG was hyped early on because Sony announced it reallly early. It had LucasArts working with SOE, along with old UO'd lead designer so of course it was going to be hyped. They also promised all kinds of great things leading up to release, like space and land combat, which only recently they made good on that promise But thats typical pre-release hype these days, and why people shouldnt take what anyone says pre-release about a game seriously. Anyhow, how the subscription numbers dropped off considerably from release day goes to show it was based on hype.
Now lets look at the other mmorpg your so fond of proving your point that 'hype automatically means bad game' which is ignorant in itself when you generalize them all in the same way. CoH came out with little to no hype whatsoever unlike SWG. CoH isnt/wasnt your typical mmorpg, its a superhero fighting game w/o the economy, tradeskills, and just typical diverse online world like most mmorpg's. So the gameplay everyday was basically kill thugs day iin and day out, theres nothing else at all to do in that game. So after people got over the initial enjoyment of combat(which was fun initially) and it became redundant using your same powers in the same order over and over again, naturally it held short-term value.
So as you can see by my 2 explanations above of 2 different games, there were different reasons why those games had the issues you tend to generalize all as the same due to hype. Your the one that doesnt look at it on a case by case basis or maybe you never played them to know why(the why is very important :0) they had the initial high subscriptions that fell off, or why they had short-term value, respectively. And then to come away from them generalizing like all hyped up games suck is just ignorant.
Anyhow, if your going to make a mmorpg i wish ya luck. Altho i have a feeling with your tastes and how you'd make one, your not going to be very successful unless your goal is to cater to the niche. You can rag on the masses all you want about them just following 'blinking lights', reality is your tastes just dont/wont draw them, and that usually constitutes success or failure. MAybe this is why so many really bad mmorpg's have come out, alot of people who make some of these really are too full of their own opinion to realize where it stands w/ the masses when they design it~
Well rohbshop, I had a nice little dissertation typed up about this whole political correctness strawman you're setting up, but now I see he's calling people children again, so screw it, lol.
rent, when you apply your own little secret definitions of success and failure, it's a bit tough to have a meaningful conversation
Originally posted by rentantilus I'm not saying that I'm the next Henry Ford, Bill Gates, or Viacom, but in an industry choking on over 100 virutally identical clones of the same precursor, someone with a few fresh new ideas might just strike the right vein, eh? I think it's worth a shot.
__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
i guess your right, its all in relation to the profit you make and content with. Just dont pretend to criticize the masses on whats good or bad, when you seem to already know where your opinion stands in the big picture, and how optimistic you seem to be in how well your mmorpg is going to do
btw to realize the point i was making on you saying hype = bad game, you'd have to reread your first reply about 'blinking lights', or did you forget all the generalizations you threw out about why people play EQ2 or WOW as opposed to Eve?
Originally posted by rentantilus With all of that flashy advertising for WoW, did you think you were getting a good product? With all the hype about "no subscription fees," did you really think Guild Wars was going to be free to play? The truth is that WoW is just the most polished of the level/skill grind MMOs, and that Guild Wars is going to cost EXACTLY the same amount of money to play as most other games; instead of a $15 per month subscription fee, they're going to basically require you to buy a new $45 expansion pack every three or four months. 3 * 15 = 45
Acyually, you're not REQUIRED to buy the expansion packs. They're optional. AND, the expansion pakcs actually come out very 6 months. Thereofre it actually costs slightly less. 6 * 15 + 90. And you even said they costed $45. Therefore you are saving $45!
Originally posted by rohbshop Guildwars is Diablo3 online. I dont see how anyone can play the game and not come away feeling like they just played Diablo, but more or less based on instances and small groups. From the way items drop, to hiring henchmen, to movement and just the whole game, its almost exactly like Diablo. I'd be surprised if Blizz ever did a Diablo again, they might as well let their old devs take over that name with Guildwars. I wouldnt really call Guildwars a mmorpg either, it just doesnt accurately describe the game, its like calling CoH a mmorpg which doesnt accurately describe it. Theyre both mmorpg-lite, but also different from one another. Guildwars is more like an LAN rpg, while CoH is more like an online superhero fighting game. Also reading the above about Eve makes me wonder if i ever canceled my free trial when i ended up quitting. I'm guessing that 12,000 count of players assumes every free trial and those that quit are still playing, hard for me to believe 12k people play it everyday.
The items in GW drop out differently. Its not a grabfest. Instead, its automatically assigned to a person. GW can be accurately described as a MMORPG. Because, its massive, multiplayer, online, you play as a character (Role-Playing), and its a game! The GW team describes it as a CORPG, though. CoH also can be described as a MMORPG. From saying "online superhero fighting game" I assume you think all MMORPG are fanatsy or monster/magic based. But MMORPG's are not always magical, monster based.
Originally posted by rohbshop Guildwars is Diablo3 online. I dont see how anyone can play the game and not come away feeling like they just played Diablo, but more or less based on instances and small groups. From the way items drop, to hiring henchmen, to movement and just the whole game, its almost exactly like Diablo. I'd be surprised if Blizz ever did a Diablo again, they might as well let their old devs take over that name with Guildwars. I wouldnt really call Guildwars a mmorpg either, it just doesnt accurately describe the game, its like calling CoH a mmorpg which doesnt accurately describe it. Theyre both mmorpg-lite, but also different from one another. Guildwars is more like an LAN rpg, while CoH is more like an online superhero fighting game. Also reading the above about Eve makes me wonder if i ever canceled my free trial when i ended up quitting. I'm guessing that 12,000 count of players assumes every free trial and those that quit are still playing, hard for me to believe 12k people play it everyday.
The items in GW drop out differently. Its not a grabfest. Instead, its automatically assigned to a person. GW can be accurately described as a MMORPG. Because, its massive, multiplayer, online, you play as a character (Role-Playing), and its a game! The GW team describes it as a CORPG, though. CoH also can be described as a MMORPG. From saying "online superhero fighting game" I assume you think all MMORPG are fanatsy or monster/magic based. But MMORPG's are not always magical, monster based.
I like playing Guild Wars, Wyvern, and Runescape.
Other communities I visit: Amaranthia.com
its not massive multiplayer in the sense of other mmorpg's tho, and categorizing it as one is misleading. Its purely based on instances w/ a limited number of players allowed. Also when i played the world premiere event, items dropped exactly like Diablo. Even the linear walk ways to get you going the 'right' path were just like Diablo. If i played it again i'm sure i could come up with more Diablo similarities, but lets just say its as close to Diablo as any other game by far.
As for CoH, there is no economy, no tradeskills, no inventory/loot, and the whole game is based around killing thugs and powerups(inspirations). My bad there are enhancements, so there is only one kind of loot. The rest is just superficial fluff like capes or badges. The sad thing about this game is its so geared towards casual gamers accomplishing anything doesnt justify the rewards. Cryptic is so afraid to give someone who plays more or higher lvl an advantage over others, they base all their rewards/carrots on superficial fluff.
i dont care if someone chooses to call them mmorpgs, but at the very least i would say thats a misleading label because they arent mmorpg's in the sense that people are generally accustomed to.
Instancing that makes things like KS'ing and looters a thing of the past.
Good graphics (well, better then WoW anyways)
Seamless updating (one of the coolest things i've seen in years)
Fast, fun combat.
Downsides
Instancing that makes it seem less like an MMORPG, but rather just an MORPG (Yes indeed, instancing is a double edged concept. You win some, you lose some.)
Caps on number of players allowed in Raid instances (Again, due to instancing)
No doubt the F2P aspect will attract immature kiddies and l33t d3wdz
World of Warcraft
Upsides
Equally solo and party friendly
Fast, fun combat
Good PvP
Larger world (afaik... it's hard to say since GW's WPE only allowed play in a few of the area's)
Downsides
It's P2P
Even with P2P, the community STILL sucks.
OVERALL
I personally have a preference towards GW. Why? Many reasons.
First off im a huge fan of PvP, and GW's is all about just that. While WoW DOES have PvP, it's not as much an emphesis as GW.
Then there's the F2P aspect.
Instancing... I always thought i hated instancing untill i played CoH... Now, CoH wasnt a great game, but it deffinatly changed my mind on instancing... Not constantly getting KS'ed and ninja-looted by immature kiddies every 15 seconds is just SOOO sweet (especially after playing a game like L2 where these types of things were all too common).
Streaming updates. Such a cool idea. Not having to wait 3+ hours on a cable moden for a freaking patch to come in is just wonderful.
... Now dont get me wrong, WoW is a great game too. I just think GW is more my type of game...
Oh and one more thing... Anybody who thinks the idea of an "Online Diablo 3" is a BAD thing, is a dumbass... Diablo 1 owned, Diablo 2 owned even more... Diablo 3 ONLINE would make me straight sauce myself ... "Diablo ripoff"? GOOD!
Let the flaming... BEGIN!!! *whips out anti-fanboy stick*
-------------------------------- BigPeeler - The Origin
Crazy Drunk Hindu: "Man!... Why you gotta be like that Peeler?..." Peeler: "I dunno man... thats just the way it is. ^.-" Crazy Drunk Hindu: "Aye..."
Their ethnicity is not a down side at all in fact I think that was a racist comment. Just because you may not like them doesn't mean it going to be a downside for anyone but yourself. You should think before you talk, unless you want people to really see how smart you are.
The only downside I see with Guild Wars is that you will be playing it.
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
Well Said. Most MMORPGS are what you said and are truely boring. I can't find anything that I like. Diablo II:LOD was one of the best games that i've played. But, I have to be honest and say that I am toally burned out on D2 and I am not playing it anymore. It was one game that I got my money's worth. I was considering to play WoW, but I will wait and see if they come out with demo. If, I like the demo and wish to play, then I'lll buy the full game and start to play, but, I don't like the cost associated with a monthly subscription fee tied to it. I know, that bill roper has formed his own company with other former blizzard employees and they are making thier first title game, which yet has to be announced. I just hope they make thier first game as good good as he made the diablo series. We'll have to wait and see...I just hope that it's soon......
Ken your korean evidently or wanna be one.It IS a downside when you can understand shit thier sayin,and having spam on your chatbar you can't understand,and on top of that,you can't relate in any way,so stay outa my game is what i think he was sayin...
I personally think playing with and against koreans is great. Some of my best guildwars groups have been all korean except me and we owned hardcore. Communication wasnt a problem at all because of guildwars intuitive system with the map drawings and targetting. Maybe you dont like playing against koreans cause theyre hardcore gamers and you get owned. Dont like koreans why dont you try challenging them in the arena. I think the ability to challenge anyone in the game is gonna be a really cool aspect of guildwars. There will be korean guilds fighting against NA guilds and mixed guilds in there too, in my opinion the universal level of competition will be great.
I personally cant wait for the retail release of guildwars. See you guys in the January Beta event.
Originally posted by holycannoli A down for Guild Wars is there's gonna be a lot of Koreans An up for WoW is that there may not be as many Koreans.
A down for Guild Wars is there's gonna be a lot of Americans An up for WoW is that there will not be any Americans (on the EU server).
/sarcasm off
Discriminating based on nationality is bad m'kay
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Originally posted by claith Ken your korean evidently or wanna be one.It IS a downside when you can understand shit thier sayin,and having spam on your chatbar you can't understand,and on top of that,you can't relate in any way,so stay outa my game is what i think he was sayin...
Well.... Jackass (idiot) no im not Korean, and it's you're not your. They could say the same about you if you played on a game in which the fan base was mostly Korean. It's people like you who don't need to play mmorpgs or online games period. I can see why some countries dislike Americans you are a prime example.
How about you play at a different time then they do since American time and Korean time are not the same. Thats why I change my gaming schedule with Mu Online.
And PS im not trying to be Korean I am being myself. I am a leader not a follower.
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
________________________________ I must not fear, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me. ________________________________
Originally posted by rentantilus An upside of both: They're a great way to keep uppity, short attention spanned, arrogant, ignorant, stupid children busy, precluding them from logging in to real MMORPGs, like Eve Online. A downside of both: They're just the latest in a long, time-honored tradition of mixing 1 part EverQuest with 1 part Diablo 2 in a generic clone of 99% of the other MMORPGs on the market. With all of that flashy advertising for WoW, did you think you were getting a good product? With all the hype about "no subscription fees," did you really think Guild Wars was going to be free to play? The truth is that WoW is just the most polished of the level/skill grind MMOs, and that Guild Wars is going to cost EXACTLY the same amount of money to play as most other games; instead of a $15 per month subscription fee, they're going to basically require you to buy a new $45 expansion pack every three or four months. 3 * 15 = 45 "But WoW is rated 8.8 right now!" Yeah, remember how SWG was supposed to be the Jesus of MMORPGs, mixing the powerhouse of Lucas Arts with the experience of SOE? Now SWG is almost unanimously regarded as the biggest joke in the MMORPG industry. THINK BEFORE YOU BUY. To you, it might just be $50, but to the gaming industry, it's a vote of "Yes!" for pumping out the same, stale, under-developed crap they've been feeding us for years. On the other hand, NOT buying either of these games is a resounding, "No, I want something fun and new!"__________ When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
Well this uppity, short attention spanned, arrogant, ignorant, stupid 33 year old CHILD pretty much thinks your a friggin idiot. I have played eve at several different times and I happen to think it sucks. Do I care you don't like that fact? Nope. Do you care that I don't like it? Nope, but alteast I can show alittle respect to that fact that now everyone is the same as you and have to throw out blanket insults LIKE a child about everyone that likes Fantasy Gendre MMO's. You wanna run around in your spaceship all day and mine or play merchant? Go ahead, but don't sit and tell me what I am because you don't like the gendre.
As for your astute comments about SWG being rated so hi before release, well, while in beta the testers were begging for it to be finished before it was released because it was so screwed up. Hmm, lets see, how many wow beta testers and players currently are going around bitchin about the state of the game? Think before I buy? Well lets see, I bought eve when it first came out and as I recall that was a rather messy launch. Were you there then?
I will take expansions every quarter ANYDAY over a monthly for the same old content over and over again. But you do play eve, so your rather used too, or just like repitition obviously. Yet you want to knock a skill grind game. Mining is SO much more fun then combat, silly me. Oh and the never ending repetitive scenery keeps me going for hours in eve.
Next time show alittle consideration when you post.
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Comments
dude, hate to break this to you, but its not cool being as old as i guess you are and playing video games. Dont you have a job, wife, kids, and other family type responsbilities at that point in your life than spending your free time playing games? I mean its one thing to be an adult playing games, but its another thiing entirely to be an adult condescending kids for playing video games. Thats just backwards, cant you see that? And your going to brag about it? lol
Furthermore, you have possibly one of the worst opinions on this forum. Your the guy championing Eve as the best mmorpg out there, if thats being 'right', then your obviously too naive to know when your wrong. Tons of people here have tried it and came away that it sucked, and yet you seem to think your 'always right'. At what point do you realize when your wrong? just curious. Even then acting like 'everyone wants permadeath' goes to show how out of reality you are, not sure if your really this naive, or just trying to get on peoples nerves, but its just silly how full of your own opinion you are, and then claim to act like 'your' opinion is everyone elses, when its obvioius your opinions tend to represent the slim minority of players, at the very best a niche
Not sure why anyone would listen to a thing you had to say at this point unless they loved Eve and think permadeath is the end all be all. That would be like a handful of people that actually had the same taste you do, which in my book i'd call just really bad taste in games. Sorry if the truth hurts
Well rent ... you really have some pretty subjective assessments of what constitutes failure or success and what sucks or not
Sort of easy to win the war when you just declare victory under your own standards 
BTW, I really don't think there's anyone here too stupid to understand that if they don't buy the GW expansions they won't have all the neat stuff
OTOH, rohbshop, it's really not right to attack the guy like that because you disagree with his opinions. You've got some pretty low stuff there. Some of you here really need to learn how to disagree with someone without attacking them as a person.
dude, hate to break this to you, but its not cool being as old as i guess you are and playing video games. Dont you have a job, wife, kids, and other family type responsbilities at that point in your life than spending your free time playing games? I mean its one thing to be an adult playing games, but its another thiing entirely to be an adult condescending kids for playing video games. Thats just backwards, cant you see that? And your going to brag about it? lol
Furthermore, you have possibly one of the worst opinions on this forum. Your the guy championing Eve as the best mmorpg out there, if thats being 'right', then your obviously too naive to know when your wrong. Tons of people here have tried it and came away that it sucked, and yet you seem to think your 'always right'. At what point do you realize when your wrong? just curious. Even then acting like 'everyone wants permadeath' goes to show how out of reality you are, not sure if your really this naive, or just trying to get on peoples nerves, but its just silly how full of your own opinion you are, and then claim to act like 'your' opinion is everyone elses, when its obvioius your opinions tend to represent the slim minority of players, at the very best a niche
Not sure why anyone would listen to a thing you had to say at this point unless they loved Eve and think permadeath is the end all be all. That would be like a handful of people that actually had the same taste you do, which in my book i'd call just really bad taste in games. Sorry if the truth hurts
Well said.
- He Who Fears Death Is In Denial, For Death Is Promised. -
- He Who Fears Death Is In Denial, For Death Is Promised. -
warning: do not feed the trolls...
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Name one thing i stated that was untrue, just one, and i'm not playing the politically correct game w/ ya about everyones opinion being right
Anyhow, he'll probably rationalize it like the masses are just followers and play bad games because theyre just followers. And how his opinioin is still right, because he knows better than everyone else. Dont think how harsh you think i was changed much
Heres a bit of information you missed when you went to gradeschool, wait no, kindergarden: people have different opinions. Every person out there want something different, be it a minor or major difference, in a game, if they play them at all. That is why so many games come out with all these differences and such. I have beta tested and played almsot every game out there, mostly for short spells, but just so I would have the experience and knowledge necessary to back any claims on this formum if I ever decide to post. Asherons Call 2 is not a bad game, it is, in fact, quite a well made game, excelent game play, excelent skill system, combat system, etc, the only thing that made it unsucessfull was the fact that they didnt advertise at the beginning, and the launch wasnt the greatest ever seen. Other games that you have boasted are failures are not. People still play them, they made the money back that they spent on it, I wouldnt call that a failure, nor would I call it a sucess, but certainly not the latter. City of Heros was never designed for the hard core gamer, or whatver term you prefer. It speciffically has said on multiple forums, dev chats, etc that this was targeting the casual gamer, and if you are such, then this game is amazing. So please, remember to keep your mouth shut on subjects that you "think" you know something about but really dont know anything about. You only make yourself look stupid.
This is the beginning of my past. This is the end of my journey.
This is the beginning of my past. This is the end of my journey.
'different' is a politically correct term to validate a persons minority opinion. 'Different' can mean good or bad different, usually subjective to the person speaking. However, what usually constitutes 'different' in the context of good or bad is how different that opinion is in relation to the masses that play games. For example, if you were hired as a Game Reviewer for an official website, would it be a good thing to hire someone writing reviews whos opinions generally appeal to the slim minority? Of course not. Its the same in reccomending games to people, people with 'different' opinions as you'd rather call it will likely let more people down in terms fo the advice they give than people that arent too 'different' from most people.
Theres also something said for 'niche' audiences. There are people into niches in mmorpg's like crafting, but again niches usually imply a minority opinioin and the games niche is usually emphasized when a reviewer or person giving advice to try the game is written. Theres also just bad opinion. However politically correct(I really hate how far political correctness has gone with some people this day ad age) some people want to be, when an opinion leans so far to the minority when so many have tried it, it usually IS a bad opinion. Some of you have played Horizons, some of you havent, but i can tell you it was probably THE worst mmorpg i've ever played. It had every problem every mmorpg's had all rolled up into one prematurely released game. And yet, there were still a handful of people that swore by it as the best mmorpg ever. This is why i dont play that politically correct game some of you do, and act like everyones opinion is right, no they arent, there are good opinions and bad ones and the masses usually constitute what defines that. The problem is most people are too egocentric to realize where their opinion stands in the big picture, and overly full of it.
I've played AC2 and it was awful, i played the free trial. I can start with no loot drops, all crafter-based economy(not sure about these days at least), and it was ugly. If you loved AC2, no offense but i doubt anyone will be hiring you to write reviews for the general public, or most people will want to take your advice on what to play
...and sorry to be so blunt but honestly i REALLY hate the political correctness that everyone is right when thats just not true.
__________
When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
then go design ur own mmorpg and stop thinking that all u say its right...theres a first time for everything
Its just a game
~~Its just a game~~
I was hoping some of you would piece together the relativity of my statements. When I say that A Tale In The Desert is successful, but Star Wars Galaxies isn't, of course I'm not refering to raw subscription numbers. My point was that SWG spent literally millions of dollars on advertising, yet it managed to attract and keep a microscopic sliver of the fan base they thought it would achieve. In comparison, ATitD has only a few thousand subscribers, but that's phenomenal progress for a few guys creating an online game in their garage.
By way of comparison, SWG sunk more money into advertising than ATitD spent on their entire development process, including equipment, salaries, and marketing. SWG is probably making around 5% of their money back per month, whereas ATitD is probably raking in about 3000% of their total development cost each month. At that rate, ATitD will continue to grow (they just put out the second release of their game), while SWG will continue to shrink and be inevitably cut from SOE's lineup sometime in the next year or two. When you consider longevity, which one is the "success" and which one is the "failure?"
__________
When you see a new MMORPG, honestly think to yourself: "Is this game designed to EARN my $15 per month subscription with content, originality, and long-term value, or is it just designed to SCAM me out of $50 when I buy the box at the store with flashy advertising, biased reviews, and empty promises?"
exactly, SWG was a huge disappointment with all the hype. The problem is you seem to apply that to all hyped games acting like theyre all SWG. You should really look at them on a case by case basis. SWG was hyped early on because Sony announced it reallly early. It had LucasArts working with SOE, along with old UO'd lead designer so of course it was going to be hyped. They also promised all kinds of great things leading up to release, like space and land combat, which only recently they made good on that promise
Now lets look at the other mmorpg your so fond of proving your point that 'hype automatically means bad game' which is ignorant in itself when you generalize them all in the same way. CoH came out with little to no hype whatsoever unlike SWG. CoH isnt/wasnt your typical mmorpg, its a superhero fighting game w/o the economy, tradeskills, and just typical diverse online world like most mmorpg's. So the gameplay everyday was basically kill thugs day iin and day out, theres nothing else at all to do in that game. So after people got over the initial enjoyment of combat(which was fun initially) and it became redundant using your same powers in the same order over and over again, naturally it held short-term value.
So as you can see by my 2 explanations above of 2 different games, there were different reasons why those games had the issues you tend to generalize all as the same due to hype. Your the one that doesnt look at it on a case by case basis or maybe you never played them to know why(the why is very important :0) they had the initial high subscriptions that fell off, or why they had short-term value, respectively. And then to come away from them generalizing like all hyped up games suck is just ignorant.
Anyhow, if your going to make a mmorpg i wish ya luck. Altho i have a feeling with your tastes and how you'd make one, your not going to be very successful unless your goal is to cater to the niche. You can rag on the masses all you want about them just following 'blinking lights', reality is your tastes just dont/wont draw them, and that usually constitutes success or failure. MAybe this is why so many really bad mmorpg's have come out, alot of people who make some of these really are too full of their own opinion to realize where it stands w/ the masses when they design it~
rent, when you apply your own little secret definitions of success and failure, it's a bit tough to have a meaningful conversation
i guess your right, its all in relation to the profit you make and content with. Just dont pretend to criticize the masses on whats good or bad, when you seem to already know where your opinion stands in the big picture, and how optimistic you seem to be in how well your mmorpg is going to do
btw to realize the point i was making on you saying hype = bad game, you'd have to reread your first reply about 'blinking lights', or did you forget all the generalizations you threw out about why people play EQ2 or WOW as opposed to Eve?
I like playing Guild Wars, Wyvern, and Runescape.
Other communities I visit:
Amaranthia.com
I like playing Guild Wars, Wyvern, and Runescape.
Other communities I visit:
Amaranthia.com
I like playing Guild Wars, Wyvern, and Runescape.
Other communities I visit:
Amaranthia.com
I like playing Guild Wars, Wyvern, and Runescape.
Other communities I visit:
Amaranthia.com
its not massive multiplayer in the sense of other mmorpg's tho, and categorizing it as one is misleading. Its purely based on instances w/ a limited number of players allowed. Also when i played the world premiere event, items dropped exactly like Diablo. Even the linear walk ways to get you going the 'right' path were just like Diablo. If i played it again i'm sure i could come up with more Diablo similarities, but lets just say its as close to Diablo as any other game by far.
As for CoH, there is no economy, no tradeskills, no inventory/loot, and the whole game is based around killing thugs and powerups(inspirations). My bad there are enhancements, so there is only one kind of loot. The rest is just superficial fluff like capes or badges. The sad thing about this game is its so geared towards casual gamers accomplishing anything doesnt justify the rewards. Cryptic is so afraid to give someone who plays more or higher lvl an advantage over others, they base all their rewards/carrots on superficial fluff.
i dont care if someone chooses to call them mmorpgs, but at the very least i would say thats a misleading label because they arent mmorpg's in the sense that people are generally accustomed to.
Guild Wars
Upsides
No monthly fee's
Emphesis on PvP
Much more skill based then previous MMO's
Brings people together better then other MMO's
Equally solo and party friendly
Instancing that makes things like KS'ing and looters a thing of the past.
Good graphics (well, better then WoW anyways)
Seamless updating (one of the coolest things i've seen in years)
Fast, fun combat.
Downsides
Instancing that makes it seem less like an MMORPG, but rather just an MORPG (Yes indeed, instancing is a double edged concept. You win some, you lose some.)
Caps on number of players allowed in Raid instances (Again, due to instancing)
No doubt the F2P aspect will attract immature kiddies and l33t d3wdz
World of Warcraft
Upsides
Equally solo and party friendly
Fast, fun combat
Good PvP
Larger world (afaik... it's hard to say since GW's WPE only allowed play in a few of the area's)
Downsides
It's P2P
Even with P2P, the community STILL sucks.
OVERALL
I personally have a preference towards GW. Why? Many reasons.
First off im a huge fan of PvP, and GW's is all about just that. While WoW DOES have PvP, it's not as much an emphesis as GW.
Then there's the F2P aspect.
Instancing... I always thought i hated instancing untill i played CoH... Now, CoH wasnt a great game, but it deffinatly changed my mind on instancing... Not constantly getting KS'ed and ninja-looted by immature kiddies every 15 seconds is just SOOO sweet (especially after playing a game like L2 where these types of things were all too common).
Streaming updates. Such a cool idea. Not having to wait 3+ hours on a cable moden for a freaking patch to come in is just wonderful.
... Now dont get me wrong, WoW is a great game too. I just think GW is more my type of game...
Oh and one more thing... Anybody who thinks the idea of an "Online Diablo 3" is a BAD thing, is a dumbass... Diablo 1 owned, Diablo 2 owned even more... Diablo 3 ONLINE would make me straight sauce myself
... "Diablo ripoff"? GOOD!
Let the flaming... BEGIN!!! *whips out anti-fanboy stick*
--------------------------------
BigPeeler - The Origin
Crazy Drunk Hindu: "Man!... Why you gotta be like that Peeler?..."
Peeler: "I dunno man... thats just the way it is. ^.-"
Crazy Drunk Hindu: "Aye..."
BETTER RECOGNIZE!!!
--------------------------------------
A down for Guild Wars is there's gonna be a lot of Koreans
An up for WoW is that there may not be as many Koreans.
Their ethnicity is not a down side at all in fact I think that was a racist comment. Just because you may not like them doesn't mean it going to be a downside for anyone but yourself. You should think before you talk, unless you want people to really see how smart you are.
The only downside I see with Guild Wars is that you will be playing it.
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
Well Said. Most MMORPGS are what you said and are truely boring. I can't find anything that I like. Diablo II:LOD was one of the best games that i've played. But, I have to be honest and say that I am toally burned out on D2 and I am not playing it anymore. It was one game that I got my money's worth. I was considering to play WoW, but I will wait and see if they come out with demo. If, I like the demo and wish to play, then I'lll buy the full game and start to play, but, I don't like the cost associated with a monthly subscription fee tied to it. I know, that bill roper has formed his own company with other former blizzard employees and they are making thier first title game, which yet has to be announced. I just hope they make thier first game as good good as he made the diablo series. We'll have to wait and see...I just hope that it's soon......
I personally think playing with and against koreans is great. Some of my best guildwars groups have been all korean except me and we owned hardcore. Communication wasnt a problem at all because of guildwars intuitive system with the map drawings and targetting. Maybe you dont like playing against koreans cause theyre hardcore gamers and you get owned. Dont like koreans why dont you try challenging them in the arena. I think the ability to challenge anyone in the game is gonna be a really cool aspect of guildwars. There will be korean guilds fighting against NA guilds and mixed guilds in there too, in my opinion the universal level of competition will be great.
I personally cant wait for the retail release of guildwars. See you guys in the January Beta event.
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
----ITS A TRAP!!!----
In Guild Wars they dont need "Dominations" to keep the servers up
And Guild Wars is in Beta progress Still
Ok
Here comes few positives and negatives.
Guild Wars
+Theres stylish graphics
+Big Monsters
+Big Monster Raids
-Every Mission is same nearly
-Small PvP area
-Only limited number of guys in PvP (~20)
-Not very much items overall
8/10
World of Warcraft
+Nice to explore
+Good PvP system
+Funny
-Graphics from cartoon network
-There is much mass teens
-Airplanes
9/10
Play these game is you get over...
40% Explorer
20% Achiever
50% Killer
20% Socializer
You can test yourself at http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/test.cgi
Im 17,94% nerd.
Just tested.
Man... I really hope to see rent's game in 2 years, sounds great according to his standards
I'll be glad when I can NOT play it just like SWG and eve.
A down for Guild Wars is there's gonna be a lot of Americans
An up for WoW is that there will not be any Americans (on the EU server).
/sarcasm off
Discriminating based on nationality is bad m'kay
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Well.... Jackass (idiot) no im not Korean, and it's you're not your. They could say the same about you if you played on a game in which the fan base was mostly Korean. It's people like you who don't need to play mmorpgs or online games period. I can see why some countries dislike Americans you are a prime example.
How about you play at a different time then they do since American time and Korean time are not the same. Thats why I change my gaming schedule with Mu Online.
And PS im not trying to be Korean I am being myself. I am a leader not a follower.
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
________________________________
I must not fear, fear is the mind killer.
Fear is the little death that leads to obliteration, I must permit fear to pass over me and through me.
________________________________
Well this uppity, short attention spanned, arrogant, ignorant, stupid 33 year old CHILD pretty much thinks your a friggin idiot. I have played eve at several different times and I happen to think it sucks. Do I care you don't like that fact? Nope. Do you care that I don't like it? Nope, but alteast I can show alittle respect to that fact that now everyone is the same as you and have to throw out blanket insults LIKE a child about everyone that likes Fantasy Gendre MMO's. You wanna run around in your spaceship all day and mine or play merchant? Go ahead, but don't sit and tell me what I am because you don't like the gendre.
As for your astute comments about SWG being rated so hi before release, well, while in beta the testers were begging for it to be finished before it was released because it was so screwed up. Hmm, lets see, how many wow beta testers and players currently are going around bitchin about the state of the game? Think before I buy? Well lets see, I bought eve when it first came out and as I recall that was a rather messy launch. Were you there then?
I will take expansions every quarter ANYDAY over a monthly for the same old content over and over again. But you do play eve, so your rather used too, or just like repitition obviously. Yet you want to knock a skill grind game. Mining is SO much more fun then combat, silly me. Oh and the never ending repetitive scenery keeps me going for hours in eve.
Next time show alittle consideration when you post.
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World