the /level command..

EreeZ · December 2004

.. should be removed in my eyes, becouse of this all newbies have a boring time.

.. the old daoc is as empty as it gets, i almoste get a shock when u see players around the area outside of mularn/vasudheim.

i remember the old days when those places where the place to be, sure SI added a new lowlvl place, and even those places are somewhat empty,

but it must be a reason for ALL the players to move there, half of the game (the old daoc areas) are'nt even used anymore exept maybe players who want to quest

mystic could even remove all of the old daoc and maybe 10-50 ppl would whine, becouse they completly killed these areas and partly faulted is the /level command

and to all of you who will start flame/whine about me want /level to be removed

you play a mmorpg to experience it not just to cap a char and make high lvl as fast as possible..

bring the joy back to the game, ppl are geting to greedy and selfish now a days with all the artis.

its all about playing and helping on another, and a good whay to start is .. without power

over and out

TheGrimReape · December 2004

I agree, like i think there was something about removing that command but long a go (i miss fun groups in muire tomb) i trying to help low lvl but there isnt much of them, thats whymany ppl leving, DAoC cant find a group on low lvls but Catacombs made it fast lvl 20 in 4-5 hours without buff bot

punkrock · December 2004

haha i rember when they said they were going to do /level along time ago. alot of people told them not to its a bad idea. but they did it anyway.

Metal-Brothe · December 2004

Not only because of the newbies but also because there are empty areas in the game and bored long time players. I always had a lot of fun leveling my chars in the low lvl areas. You always had the chance to find new friends too. With lvl 20+ the players only want to raise their chars fast to 50 and that sucks.

The journey is the reward.

Professor_P · December 2004

Join merlin. There are just enough people to always find a group. I'm not kidding.

JulianDracos · December 2004

Originally posted by Metal-Brothe

Not only because of the newbies but also because there are empty areas in the game and bored long time players. I always had a lot of fun leveling my chars in the low lvl areas. You always had the chance to find new friends too. With lvl 20+ the players only want to raise their chars fast to 50 and that sucks.
The journey is the reward.

Most people do not think that way. If they did, there would have not been a large request for free higher level characters. Further, people would choose not to use the /level command. I am having a lot of fun leveling my new vamp, but I am not sure I would like to do it again and again. It gets really old. If I wanted a pointless boring grind I would go play EQ or SWG. I never use the /levl command for a real character, but just for the level 20 BG. Even at level 20 it is still a grind to go and kill.

I will say that they have made it much easier to solo and for new players to join the game. But I think it can be a very harsh experience for a new person to the game to be stuck playing alone. The first few times into the game are usually the most important to keeping new players for at least a few months. But this isn't just a DAOC problem. On other games, people will simply play their higher level characters and not bother starting new ones. It is what happens with mmorpg. A new game comes out and everyone starts off equal. The game grows and there are a large variety of players to group with. the first expansion comes out and a huge influx of new players and still a lot of groups of all levels. 1/2 way to the second expansion not a lot of new players coming into the game, people are sick of the grind at low levels doing the same thing, so they stick to their higher level toons. I think server clusters will do a lot to solve some of these issues but not all. At least for those above 20 it should help out a lot.

xkappa · December 2004

i think /level option is good idea, think it of a reward getting to lvl 50 on another character.

again, you dont have to use the option if you dont want.

Cillasi · December 2004

Mythic has made it sooo easy to level from 1-20 now that I don't really think the /level command is still necessary, especially with the free level system in place. Even above level 20, the camp bonuses are stupendous.

I had always hoped for a /level command to allow experienced players to forego levels 1-5, simply because they are the most redundant. Mythic went too far with the /level 20 command in my opinion.

JulianDracos · December 2004

They won't remove it, at least for most of the servers. While everyone cries nerf they do not change their minds that often or in a way that would effect EVERY player.

I do admit that it is easy to go from 1-20, but if I am sitting here with nothing to do and I want to have some fun I would rather /level 20 and take a new toon out to the BG than level by myself. Even if it were somehow possible to get a group, why should I be forced to keep a character on my account between 20-24 just so I can have some fun?

There are many balance issues in DAOC. Not just in RvR but between RvR and PvE. If people are out in RvR then they are not in PvE and those people are upset. If people are now in PvE (for example in ToA) then the RvR people are going to be upset. Hopefully the clustering will solve a lot of that problem by having enough player base to go around. However, I remember when the servers were all well populated and having tells from people asking me to go out to RvR because they didn't have enough people or begging me to go on a dragon raid.

In short perhaps that best thing to do is given those experiences players an incentive to play 1-20 level toons so they can help out the new players. That would be the best way to solve the problem.

TheGrimReape · December 2004

if you whant to have some fun try to get on of your toons to lvl 50 its very fast if you playing as mana mentalist or a warden ppls will rip eachother to get you in theyr group. i wont advice you to start a offence caster or just a tank if your not a vampiir, sheld/hero or a mana enchanter after you get to lvl 20 you will find groups i never had problems in doing so i had 4 50 on same server and my hands wasnt shaking when i deleted them to create new, i never had problems after lvl 20

but it is fun to see lvl 20 noobs who you have to teach how to play they classes specialy animists they always get groups aoe doted or mezzed if they place shrooms in a bad place and if your starting new char start in a Grove of Domnann you will see lots of ppl there and like somone told that mag male nad ardee turned in to a ghost towns only connla and howth did and Mag Male got lots of ghosts in it if you know what i mean lough derg more than 20 under lvl 20 players, or may be i just got lucky il check this for 3 more nights

Unknown · January 2005

Originally posted by JulianDracos

Originally posted by Metal-Brothe

Not only because of the newbies but also because there are empty areas in the game and bored long time players. I always had a lot of fun leveling my chars in the low lvl areas. You always had the chance to find new friends too. With lvl 20+ the players only want to raise their chars fast to 50 and that sucks.
The journey is the reward.

On other games, people will simply play their higher level characters and not bother starting new ones. It is what happens with mmorpg. A new game comes out and everyone starts off equal. The game grows and there are a large variety of players to group with. the first expansion comes out and a huge influx of new players and still a lot of groups of all levels. 1/2 way to the second expansion not a lot of new players coming into the game, people are sick of the grind at low levels doing the same thing, so they stick to their higher level toons. I think server clusters will do a lot to solve some of these issues but not all. At least for those above 20 it should help out a lot.

1. Not true. In all other MMORPGs many vet players do make new low level characters. For different reasons. To re-experience the beginning game they missed. (like in AO which has some NICE beginning content being constantly added.) To experiment. (Like in EQ, some vets will try making a ... Gnome Warrior LOL!) To play the game in a harder mode after first getting to the top with an easy character. (Like in EQ - no Newbie can survive as a Shadowknight. But a vet wouldn't mind giving it a try.)(Like in AO, no newbie would survive as a Nano-tech Nanomage. But a vet with xp with other characters could.).

2. DAoC is entirely unique because... it is a PvP game that is 100% level based. AO is a PvP game that is 50% Skill Based/50% Level Based. EQ is a PvE game that is 100% Level Based. In EQ players don't mind as much taking on the low level areas because MOBs no matter how hard, still are AI.

In DAoC anyone who plays with the intent on PvPing, must be a higher level in order to win. Players a few level higher are completly invincible to players who are a few levels lower. DAoC should've worked on their game mechanics instead of making an easy quick fix with the /level command. In AO, which currently has the best PvP out of every MMORPG, a low level player can indeed kill off a much higher level player. In SWG, which has no levels, they completly revolutionized their game features coming up with a unique way in which a 1 year vet player can still risk dying from a 1 week old player. Or even a group of 12 three day old newbies. In DAoC a level 40 player can stand with no armor on, and let 100 level 10 players swing at him for 1 week 24/7 and never, never, get scratched.

As someone above said, why even keep having the low end zones? Delete them, start every new character off at level 20 right after they're created. (I on purpose refuse to use /level command for my first 3 characters. Which I'm still leveling up right now. I'll admit, from level 1-40 DAoC plays just like EQ - but with some small differences. Like the quickie quests)

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JulianDracos · January 2005

Originally posted by xplororor

Originally posted by JulianDracos

Originally posted by Metal-Brothe

Not only because of the newbies but also because there are empty areas in the game and bored long time players. I always had a lot of fun leveling my chars in the low lvl areas. You always had the chance to find new friends too. With lvl 20+ the players only want to raise their chars fast to 50 and that sucks.
The journey is the reward.

On other games, people will simply play their higher level characters and not bother starting new ones. It is what happens with mmorpg. A new game comes out and everyone starts off equal. The game grows and there are a large variety of players to group with. the first expansion comes out and a huge influx of new players and still a lot of groups of all levels. 1/2 way to the second expansion not a lot of new players coming into the game, people are sick of the grind at low levels doing the same thing, so they stick to their higher level toons. I think server clusters will do a lot to solve some of these issues but not all. At least for those above 20 it should help out a lot.

1. Not true. In all other MMORPGs many vet players do make new low level characters. For different reasons. To re-experience the beginning game they missed. (like in AO which has some NICE beginning content being constantly added.) To experiment. (Like in EQ, some vets will try making a ... Gnome Warrior LOL!) To play the game in a harder mode after first getting to the top with an easy character. (Like in EQ - no Newbie can survive as a Shadowknight. But a vet wouldn't mind giving it a try.)(Like in AO, no newbie would survive as a Nano-tech Nanomage. But a vet with xp with other characters could.).

2. DAoC is entirely unique because... it is a PvP game that is 100% level based. AO is a PvP game that is 50% Skill Based/50% Level Based. EQ is a PvE game that is 100% Level Based. In EQ players don't mind as much taking on the low level areas because MOBs no matter how hard, still are AI.

In DAoC anyone who plays with the intent on PvPing, must be a higher level in order to win. Players a few level higher are completly invincible to players who are a few levels lower. DAoC should've worked on their game mechanics instead of making an easy quick fix with the /level command. In AO, which currently has the best PvP out of every MMORPG, a low level player can indeed kill off a much higher level player. In SWG, which has no levels, they completly revolutionized their game features coming up with a unique way in which a 1 year vet player can still risk dying from a 1 week old player. Or even a group of 12 three day old newbies. In DAoC a level 40 player can stand with no armor on, and let 100 level 10 players swing at him for 1 week 24/7 and never, never, get scratched.

As someone above said, why even keep having the low end zones? Delete them, start every new character off at level 20 right after they're created. (I on purpose refuse to use /level command for my first 3 characters. Which I'm still leveling up right now. I'll admit, from level 1-40 DAoC plays just like EQ - but with some small differences. Like the quickie quests)

1. I never said that everyone does it, just that it is the most common. I constantly hear people compain about EQ and other games that have been around where no one is in the low level zones. No one is around to group that is their level. And when they do find someone that is around their level they are being powerleveled. I have a good enough memory to remember what it was like before /level. Were there more people around below levle 20? Yes - but there were also more active people in the game. But even putting that aside it was getting harder and harder to find groups. It was common for guilds in order to get the people with new toons or people new to the game up to around level 40 as fast as possible so there was a lot of powerleveling. There was tons of complaining. Most of the original people to DAOC feld from EQ before DAOC came out. The last thing many people wanted to do was to go through the begining levels again just to get a new toon to the battlegrounds.

2. DAOC is RvR based - not PvP. Even saying that it is RvR based is still not entierly correct. DAOC has a PvE game and a RvR game. Players can choose which one they want to do. So Mythic has a lot of balancing that must be done in three realms, a huge amount of classes, in PvE, and RvR.

In DAOC a 100 level tens could scratch a level 40, but it is not like they would kill him. This is how the game mechanics work. As for SWG it is simple for how a 1 week old toon could do it, MAKE A JEDI. but Mythic has more than addressed these issues. They decided on class not a skill based system. This means levels will matter. If not then, what is the point of getting higher level? 100 level 10 against a level 40 mob would stand no chance at all either so why should they in RvR?

You have battlegrounds to go fight in - places where many people prefer it to the Frontiers. At level 20 I have killed level 24. At level 40 I have killed a level 44. My NS has managed to not only kill toon oj but also those with buff bots simply by getting a good hit in and being a better player than the other person. It is not as though you cannot ever kill someone higher level than you or with buffs. It is just harder. And that is the way this system must work. If not you would have level 50's going around saying 'Damn this sucks I made it all the way to 50 and I got jumped by a group of grey and I ended up dead. WTF??? Why did I bother getting this high if I could just be killed by level 10's?'

Battlegrounds were the way that Mythic decided to allow people to RvR without getting killed in one hit. Remember that the Frontiers also have guards which are NPC. I remember when the game first started and the highest person on the server was aroun 35. They lead a huge raid to take a keep. We have to have a complicated chat group set up to handle it all because we did not have enough room in chat nor was the battleground added. There were no enemies to fight, we had at least 100 players all level 25-35 and we got owned. We finally managed to get the door down and get inside to fight, but it was almost a slaughter.

So if Mythic allowed level 10 to be able to hurt a level 40, they would also have to allow them to hurt a level 40 mob. Which would disrupt the PvE aspect of the game.

BTW 30 levels lower I think counts as more than a few levels.

sqwiggins · January 2005

ok well im just gonna reply to the original post i dont think this command should be removed and i dont have a level 50 i dont think its that hard to get to level 20 with any class it takes about 2 days for me of like 2-4 hour sessions but thats just my oppinon

its good to know that if I ever need attention all I need to do is die

Unknown · January 2005

Originally posted by JulianDracos

1. I never said that everyone does it, just that it is the most common.

   I never said everyone does it either. I'm commenting on the fact that DAoC decided to have it in the first place. Talk about impatient players. /level -> 20 instantly. The fact that DAoC even has this command shows they don't care about the beginning game. If one can SKIP the beginning game - why have it? Like someone already posted saying.

I constantly hear people compain about EQ and other games that have been around where no one is in the low level zones. No one is around to group that is their level. And when they do find someone that is around their level they are being powerleveled.

   100% not true. In EQ (before EQ2 released) it was not hard at all to find other players in beginning areas, and low level areas. How many people complained "I can't find anyone" out of the 300,000+ EQ players? Very likely those complainers were EBayers who had no idea how to play their characters, or just simply were bad to group with. Me and 4 friends have been playing EQ off and on for the past 2 years. Starting many new low level characters on different servers. We've never found Queynos, Freeport, or the tree elf city soo empty that there was no one to group with.

The hard level races tend to have emptier cities because they are hard to play. A player who makes an Elf Warrior will have a much easier time finding people than an Ogre Shadowknight who is KOS in more places. If these "complainers" took time to learn about the game they would have less to complain about. Too many gamers are far too impatient - wanting instant gratification NOW. Then complain that there is nothing to do LOL!

I have a good enough memory to remember what it was like before /level. Were there more people around below levle 20? Yes - but there were also more active people in the game. But even putting that aside it was getting harder and harder to find groups. It was common for guilds in order to get the people with new toons or people new to the game up to around level 40 as fast as possible so there was a lot of powerleveling. There was tons of complaining. Most of the original people to DAOC feld from EQ before DAOC came out. The last thing many people wanted to do was to go through the begining levels again just to get a new toon to the battlegrounds.

   Again, the underlying intention of DAoC is PvP (RvR is just a form of PvP. PvP for realms.) The underlying intention of EQ was/is PvE. People purchased DAoC with the promise of being able to fight other players. The main goal of DAoC is to fight other players. Since DAoC is a level based game, then the only way to have the best chance of winning vs another player - is to reach the highest level in the shortest time.

In EQ the way to have the best chance of winning vs a MOB with AI .... takes much, much, less than winning vs a player. MOBs follow pre-set patterns. They cannot learn and recignize the infinate pattern of players and the stratagies players use to kill them. So to have the best chance of killing a moster does not mean one MUST reach the highest level in the shortest time. Check out my sig, At less than level 25 I took on a level 40+ monster - a Giant who was 8 times bigger and stronger than me. The AI couldn't recignize and learn from the simple stratagy I used on it - over, and over, and over. Impossible to do vs another player in DAoC.

2. DAOC is RvR based - not PvP. Even saying that it is RvR based is still not entierly correct. DAOC has a PvE game and a RvR game. Players can choose which one they want to do. So Mythic has a lot of balancing that must be done in three realms, a huge amount of classes, in PvE, and RvR.

In RvR do players fight and kill other players? Yes or no? If yes then it is PvP. RvR is a form of PvP.

In DAOC a 100 level tens could scratch a level 40, but it is not like they would kill him. This is how the game mechanics work. As for SWG it is simple for how a 1 week old toon could do it, MAKE A JEDI. but Mythic has more than addressed these issues. They decided on class not a skill based system. This means levels will matter. If not then, what is the point of getting higher level? 100 level 10 against a level 40 mob would stand no chance at all either so why should they in RvR?

You have battlegrounds to go fight in - places where many people prefer it to the Frontiers. At level 20 I have killed level 24. At level 40 I have killed a level 44. My NS has managed to not only kill toon oj but also those with buff bots simply by getting a good hit in and being a better player than the other person. It is not as though you cannot ever kill someone higher level than you or with buffs. It is just harder. And that is the way this system must work. If not you would have level 50's going around saying 'Damn this sucks I made it all the way to 50 and I got jumped by a group of grey and I ended up dead. WTF??? Why did I bother getting this high if I could just be killed by level 10's?'

Battlegrounds were the way that Mythic decided to allow people to RvR without getting killed in one hit. Remember that the Frontiers also have guards which are NPC. I remember when the game first started and the highest person on the server was aroun 35. They lead a huge raid to take a keep. We have to have a complicated chat group set up to handle it all because we did not have enough room in chat nor was the battleground added. There were no enemies to fight, we had at least 100 players all level 25-35 and we got owned. We finally managed to get the door down and get inside to fight, but it was almost a slaughter.

So if Mythic allowed level 10 to be able to hurt a level 40, they would also have to allow them to hurt a level 40 mob. Which would disrupt the PvE aspect of the game.

BTW 30 levels lower I think counts as more than a few levels.

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newbinator · January 2005

/level command was one of the worst additions to DAOC in my opinion.

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TheGrimReape · January 2005

Btw you cant use /level command for new catacombs classes and they did say that they will remove it but didnt tell when, they allredy removed /level 30 command but most fun is in bg so many players will get boored if you remove it, get your self a lvl 50 and you will understand me but when i have tim im lvling without that command whant to relive those fun places and old quests and it dont take long to get lvl 20 :P even without catacombs and if your new ask somone for advice in grove of domnann they also can help with money ( no mather how many times high lvl players talk about i wont give a 1s to lvl 1-20 noob they allways give some ( but plzz dont ask more than 3g they will give 5 or 11 anyway)

dam i know i shud use : , and . there somewher but who cares its a forum not a english class any way.

joeydevil · January 2005

I think you guys are looking at it all wrong. They make you go through the early levels to get you used to playing the game. The average level 50 player knows how to play and has spent many days trying to get to 50 already and could pick up a new class relativlely quickly. You dont have to start at 20 if you dont want but at least players with a 50 toon have the option. I dont understand what problem this causes anyone. Its not like they said you cant level 1-20 anymore. I dont think /level 20 has anything to do with your prob because new players on my server would go to the same spots then as now.There will always be lowbies around.

logohere · February 2005

Lock it up and throw away the key.

newbinator · February 2005

I have a a couple level 50's and I admit I tried out some different classes when they added the /level command but I quickly began to hate it when I realized how it screwed over new players, trust me a new player is alot less likely to stick with the game when they cannot find anyone to group with and all the hunting areas are empty, I know for me if I try a new game and it's like that the chances of me sticking with the game are very low.

JulianDracos · February 2005

The /level command has very little impact on new players having people to group with.

Removing the level command would not cause players to all of a sudden start playing pre-level 20 toons and everyone would be able to find a group. All it would do is make people powerlevel them. They will get their friends to help them, or use their bot account to so it. This is what happened before level 20. In fact it still happens many times after level 20.

The /level command makes the BG very fun. It makes it quick and easy to get on and do things. It makes it easy to try out new characters without having to invest all of the time. You can play around with your spec. If you do not like it you can respec. If you still do not like it, delete and start over. These are all the benefits that would be gone if the /level command was removed.

However, if they are going to start a casual server they should not allow the level command to work because that server is designed to cater to a specific audience and for new players.

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the /level command..

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the /level command..

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