Originally posted by Hydroblunt Try Ryzom. Sandbox & skill based. The only other games that come close are Anarchy Online and, supposedly, Darkfall Online (although it is often called Darkfail)
Ryzom, Darkfall, Anarchy online nor any other game known to me has got as complex manufacturing as EVE.
The point is that in most if not all the games you can produce 'anything' pretty much just on your own. You get the materials, throw them in big pot, stirr a few times and there is your item.
To make the world player driven, live and breating( a sandbox game), you have to reach the complexity where you need 'everyone' in more or less direct co-operation for manufacturing which stands as ground game economy and other player built content.
In the MMO genre, yes, it's not about owning multiple MMOs but about owning a great one.
CCP accomplished it, and is probably the reason lately we have so many indy companies entering the genre, which is possibly good as the current AAA companies rarely try to steer away too much from the winning formulas and bring innovation.
No. AA? Sure. They have money, a game with fans, and their purchase of White Wolf shows they've got some business sense. BUT... they've had too many problems that were handled poorly. Turning a blind eye to employees cheating in the companies game on their private accounts until players break the story shows that they are not AAA.
To be honest, I'm confused why this is even a topic. As vague a definition as "AAA" is, it's pretty frickin clear CCP is a producer of quality MMORPGs. Whether or not you're part of the niche-y crowd EVE appeals to (I'm not,) you have to admit it's AAA-quality.
They've produced one outstanding game. I'm not sure being a 1-hot wonder qualifies as "AAA". If they can make a go of WoD and/or Dust then no-one could deny their status.l
Just so you understand Blizzard is also a one shot MMO wonder.
But they've produced plenty of other quality games, no?
EDIT: Just so that we're clear: I love playing EvE, and overall I like CCP. They've made some godawful mistakes, and in some ways they really act like amateurs. Their PR is... umm... OK you know the nice words we're supposed to used about the "special" kid at school? Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's blindingly obvious that they're intensely proud of EvE, and they're very committed to it, and I'm prepared to forgive them a lot for that. They're not just another 'screw every short-term penny out this dull IP, then ditch the player base and move on" stripmining company.
If their other projects fail and they decide to turtle up and just be the company than runs EvE, they'll still be a damb good MMO company. OTOH, if they pull off the obvious "EvE-verse" multi-platform expansion program that they obviously envisage, then they'll be the biggest winners in MMO-land within a few years. It's a glorious ambition, and I salute them for it. They've got the balls, they've got the talent, they've got the vision. and I sure hope they have the luck and the skill to bring it together. We'll see.
I don't actively play eve but in general I consider it a top notch mmo. It is polished, has a lot of depth, and can keep you playing for years. It's just not for me cause I'm generally more interested in fantasy / avatar mmos.
CCP was a little known company before they created a sandbox game called EvE: Online. They weathered their fair share of storms and over the years and through controversy have grown EvE to a respectable MMO. They have done well enough that they have purchased a well known Pencil and Paper gaming company in White Wolf (of Vampire:TM, Mage, Werewwolf, etc., fame) started work on their second MMO based on the new version of World of Darkness. Has Cinderella finally made it to the AAA ball?
How many games to they have in their released game portfolio?
The meaning of AAA for me has always been about how much cash/credit a company is worth in order to back it's games. Blizzard, EA, Square Enix, SCE, Bioware and Nintendo are some AAA companies. But not all AAA companies put out AAA products all the time.
More so, even some independent companies can put out a AAA game: CCP with EvE Online, Rocksteady Studios with Batman: Arkham Asylum and Bethesda Softworks with Fallout 3. But I do not consider 1 or 2 hits from a company enough to qualify them as AAA.
Take Turbine, Inc. for instance. They have 3 titles under their belt which all happen to be MMOs. But because of the type of games they make, they are having a hard time finding the investors to raise the 300+ million they want for their next endeavor. As of now they have about 88 million of that. To me that's not a AAA company.
When a company reaches a status that has investors knocking at their door, has products or money invested into more than one platform (consoles, pc and/or movies) and is well known to more than mmo insiders. Then I would consider it AAA in my book.
**Of course this is all my opinion.
Woah you putting Bethesda Softworks into that group of companies? Bethesda is a AAA company, they have the Fallout series, Fallout was huge back in the day before Fallout 3. They also have the TEC (The Elder Scrolls) series which have had major sucess with Morrowind and Oblivion.
BTW Bethesda is the other big company, Bioware being the other, that I've been wanting to make a MMORPG.
The meaning of AAA for me has always been about how much cash/credit a company is worth in order to back it's games. Blizzard, EA, Square Enix, SCE, Bioware and Nintendo are some AAA companies. But not all AAA companies put out AAA products all the time.
More so, even some independent companies can put out a AAA game: CCP with EvE Online, Rocksteady Studios with Batman: Arkham Asylum and Bethesda Softworks with Fallout 3. But I do not consider 1 or 2 hits from a company enough to qualify them as AAA.
Take Turbine, Inc. for instance. They have 3 titles under their belt which all happen to be MMOs. But because of the type of games they make, they are having a hard time finding the investors to raise the 300+ million they want for their next endeavor. As of now they have about 88 million of that. To me that's not a AAA company.
When a company reaches a status that has investors knocking at their door, has products or money invested into more than one platform (consoles, pc and/or movies) and is well known to more than mmo insiders. Then I would consider it AAA in my book.
**Of course this is all my opinion.
Woah you putting Bethesda Softworks into that group of companies? Bethesda is a AAA company, they have the Fallout series, Fallout was huge back in the day before Fallout 3. They also have the TEC (The Elder Scrolls) series which have had major sucess with Morrowind and Oblivion.
BTW Bethesda is the other big company, Bioware being the other, that I've been wanting to make a MMORPG.
The Fallout series was developed by Black Isle Studios not Bethesda. They recently got the IP from Interplay and made Fallout 3. Other than that they have The Elder Scroll series in which both Oblivion and Morrowind are a part of. So that's one IP that they have milked 14 times for the last 15 years. So yeah I lumped them with the other companies that have put out AAA games, but being responsible for several pretty first person rpgs kinda makes you a niche developer.
So until they put out a new IP and I get to see how much backing they get for their Fallout MMO, I'll consider them to be a step below a AAA company.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
CCP at one time hosted the game RF Online and even though it wasn't their flagship game, they just kind of let it out to rot and die. Of course, EVE is top notch, but I don't quite think they're AAA quality yet.
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
I would consider them AAA since they have three different studios in three different countries workign on three different titles. The question is will they continue with that status after Dust 514, or World of Darkness.
No. AA? Sure. They have money, a game with fans, and their purchase of White Wolf shows they've got some business sense. BUT... they've had too many problems that were handled poorly. Turning a blind eye to employees cheating in the companies game on their private accounts until players break the story shows that they are not AAA.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
As to the OP's main topic well right now CCP is not a AAA company but it is a AA company as it has one very good game that is slowly growing in sub numbers. They also have White Wolf under there belt and with there help are developing a new Gothic MMO which may be pretty good [ I reserve further comment for when the screenshots start coming out ]. They also are developing a rather good MMOFPS for the console crowd that's not only based in the EvE universe but it also interacts in some undefined level with the players in EvE, something which I belive has not been tried yet.
So although CCP is not yet a AAA company they do have a lot of potential to become one through quality products.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
No. AA? Sure. They have money, a game with fans, and their purchase of White Wolf shows they've got some business sense. BUT... they've had too many problems that were handled poorly. Turning a blind eye to employees cheating in the companies game on their private accounts until players break the story shows that they are not AAA.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
Feel free to attempt to correct the statement if you believe it is wrong. However, I stand by it - and believe the record shows I am correct.
However in terms of presentation, product quality, technology and audacity, it's AAA. In my book, EVE universe is the most detailed Sci-fi world created since Frank Herbert Dune. I would rather see movies and games coming out based on EVE then Star Wars/Star Trek.
Trekkies and Jedi Fan boys, relaxe!!! I love Star wars and Star Trek as well, I just prefer EVE. :P
eve is a masterpiece i wish more mmos were as complex as it
i agree with him
i wish someone would try to adapt the eve style to an avatar based game
imagine having to train your character to use certain types of weapons and fighting styles to use with them
That game is called Darkfall.
I hate people who BS they choked or spurted coke out of their nostrils at an audacious comment but this honestly had me coughing on my beer. Eve to Darkfall is what a Sirloin Steak is to a McDonalds hamburger.
On Topic: If numbers around the web are to believed it is in the top 3 western MMOs with a paid subscription. It is pulling in through subs more than many companies will make with 10 non sub games so financially its a AAA company and no one can argue about the quality.
No. AA? Sure. They have money, a game with fans, and their purchase of White Wolf shows they've got some business sense. BUT... they've had too many problems that were handled poorly. Turning a blind eye to employees cheating in the companies game on their private accounts until players break the story shows that they are not AAA.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
Feel free to attempt to correct the statement if you believe it is wrong. However, I stand by it - and believe the record shows I am correct.
This has been done already by so many so many times its getting tiring so I advise you actually do some reserch on the matter. And that's all I will say on the matter as this is not the main topic of this thread and I have to say I have wasted enough time on this already.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Comments
i agree with him
i wish someone would try to adapt the eve style to an avatar based game
imagine having to train your character to use certain types of weapons and fighting styles to use with them
Try Ryzom. Sandbox & skill based.
The only other games that come close are Anarchy Online and, supposedly, Darkfall Online (although it is often called Darkfail)
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
Ryzom, Darkfall, Anarchy online nor any other game known to me has got as complex manufacturing as EVE.
The point is that in most if not all the games you can produce 'anything' pretty much just on your own. You get the materials, throw them in big pot, stirr a few times and there is your item.
To make the world player driven, live and breating( a sandbox game), you have to reach the complexity where you need 'everyone' in more or less direct co-operation for manufacturing which stands as ground game economy and other player built content.
CCP has one game.
Its a great game, but one success doesn't make them a AAA studio.
Blizzard, Nintendo, Ubisoft, Valve...
Those are AAA companies.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
In the MMO genre, yes, it's not about owning multiple MMOs but about owning a great one.
CCP accomplished it, and is probably the reason lately we have so many indy companies entering the genre, which is possibly good as the current AAA companies rarely try to steer away too much from the winning formulas and bring innovation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They've produced one outstanding game. I'm not sure being a 1-hot wonder qualifies as "AAA". If they can make a go of WoD and/or Dust then no-one could deny their status.l
Just so you understand Blizzard is also a one shot MMO wonder.
But they've produced plenty of other quality games, no?
EDIT: Just so that we're clear: I love playing EvE, and overall I like CCP. They've made some godawful mistakes, and in some ways they really act like amateurs. Their PR is... umm... OK you know the nice words we're supposed to used about the "special" kid at school? Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's blindingly obvious that they're intensely proud of EvE, and they're very committed to it, and I'm prepared to forgive them a lot for that. They're not just another 'screw every short-term penny out this dull IP, then ditch the player base and move on" stripmining company.
If their other projects fail and they decide to turtle up and just be the company than runs EvE, they'll still be a damb good MMO company. OTOH, if they pull off the obvious "EvE-verse" multi-platform expansion program that they obviously envisage, then they'll be the biggest winners in MMO-land within a few years. It's a glorious ambition, and I salute them for it. They've got the balls, they've got the talent, they've got the vision. and I sure hope they have the luck and the skill to bring it together. We'll see.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I have no idea if CCP is a AAA company.
I always thought a AAA company was one that released great games and make a ton of cash.
EvE is great and CCP is making two more MMOs so we know they have money.
I don't know, I think CCP is still a bit indy. Maybe once those two games come out and Ambulation basically doubles eve's player base they will be.
Playing: WoW, EvE
Interested in: TOR, ER, GW2, WoD, Dust514
Interesting replies. Thanks to those on topic replies.
As for those asking my definition of AAA, you can see elements of it in my initial post as well as the posts of a few others.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I don't actively play eve but in general I consider it a top notch mmo. It is polished, has a lot of depth, and can keep you playing for years. It's just not for me cause I'm generally more interested in fantasy / avatar mmos.
How many games to they have in their released game portfolio?
Woah you putting Bethesda Softworks into that group of companies? Bethesda is a AAA company, they have the Fallout series, Fallout was huge back in the day before Fallout 3. They also have the TEC (The Elder Scrolls) series which have had major sucess with Morrowind and Oblivion.
BTW Bethesda is the other big company, Bioware being the other, that I've been wanting to make a MMORPG.
1
Woah you putting Bethesda Softworks into that group of companies? Bethesda is a AAA company, they have the Fallout series, Fallout was huge back in the day before Fallout 3. They also have the TEC (The Elder Scrolls) series which have had major sucess with Morrowind and Oblivion.
BTW Bethesda is the other big company, Bioware being the other, that I've been wanting to make a MMORPG.
The Fallout series was developed by Black Isle Studios not Bethesda. They recently got the IP from Interplay and made Fallout 3. Other than that they have The Elder Scroll series in which both Oblivion and Morrowind are a part of. So that's one IP that they have milked 14 times for the last 15 years. So yeah I lumped them with the other companies that have put out AAA games, but being responsible for several pretty first person rpgs kinda makes you a niche developer.
So until they put out a new IP and I get to see how much backing they get for their Fallout MMO, I'll consider them to be a step below a AAA company.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
1
Not a major AAA company....yet.
i agree with him
i wish someone would try to adapt the eve style to an avatar based game
imagine having to train your character to use certain types of weapons and fighting styles to use with them
From what I've read this is what Earthrise is going to be, but until it's released can't be 100% certain, worth looking into for yourself though
CCP is the ID Software/Epic Megagames of MMOs.
That's CCR
ROFL, my bad.
I fail.
"IRL is a pretty upstanding MMO with thousands of classes, a lot of PvP and even some pretty unique emotes and titles you can acquire. Explore that world first, then we'll talk about this virtual one."
I would consider them AAA since they have three different studios in three different countries workign on three different titles. The question is will they continue with that status after Dust 514, or World of Darkness.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
As to the OP's main topic well right now CCP is not a AAA company but it is a AA company as it has one very good game that is slowly growing in sub numbers. They also have White Wolf under there belt and with there help are developing a new Gothic MMO which may be pretty good [ I reserve further comment for when the screenshots start coming out ]. They also are developing a rather good MMOFPS for the console crowd that's not only based in the EvE universe but it also interacts in some undefined level with the players in EvE, something which I belive has not been tried yet.
So although CCP is not yet a AAA company they do have a lot of potential to become one through quality products.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
EVE is without a doubt a AAA game, but we will have to wait and see about CCP. There are plenty of devs that lose their mojo after an initial success.
<deleted>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
Feel free to attempt to correct the statement if you believe it is wrong. However, I stand by it - and believe the record shows I am correct.
No one is perfect.
However in terms of presentation, product quality, technology and audacity, it's AAA. In my book, EVE universe is the most detailed Sci-fi world created since Frank Herbert Dune. I would rather see movies and games coming out based on EVE then Star Wars/Star Trek.
Trekkies and Jedi Fan boys, relaxe!!! I love Star wars and Star Trek as well, I just prefer EVE. :P
i agree with him
i wish someone would try to adapt the eve style to an avatar based game
imagine having to train your character to use certain types of weapons and fighting styles to use with them
That game is called Darkfall.
I hate people who BS they choked or spurted coke out of their nostrils at an audacious comment but this honestly had me coughing on my beer. Eve to Darkfall is what a Sirloin Steak is to a McDonalds hamburger.
On Topic: If numbers around the web are to believed it is in the top 3 western MMOs with a paid subscription. It is pulling in through subs more than many companies will make with 10 non sub games so financially its a AAA company and no one can argue about the quality.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which was not exactly true now was it not ?... turning a blind eye that is. Of course with any majour mmo such stories get embelished and stay around for years for any poor sucker to lap up.
Feel free to attempt to correct the statement if you believe it is wrong. However, I stand by it - and believe the record shows I am correct.
This has been done already by so many so many times its getting tiring so I advise you actually do some reserch on the matter. And that's all I will say on the matter as this is not the main topic of this thread and I have to say I have wasted enough time on this already.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981