Creating another EQ-like game is not about resurrecting 1999 graphics, class design, and interfaces; it is about recreating the challenge and mystery those games had. And I think those elements are sorely needed in MMO's.
The unfortunate reality though is that the vast majority of MMO players, the people who keep these games in business, don't care about challenge or mystery, they want something they can play through in a couple of months with little or no trouble. I agree with you, those things are needed but any company that adopted them would go out of business in short order, there just isn't enough of a paying playerbase to keep them afloat.
There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Then why everybody always screm WoW WoW WOW? I never played EQ so I wouldnt know
I agree. To this day I still miss EQ and go back every now and then to play. But to be honest the world has gotten too big for the player base, You go through zones and they are mostly empty except for whatever the current Hot zones are. I miss the days of sitting in the commonlands selling my stuff off back before they added traders. NO GAME today can compare to the grouping that used to talk place in EQ. The games are so solo orientated these days that a lot of people do not even bother with the grouping social aspects of the games anymore. ( I will admit I too get caught up in this with the newer games out there such as Champions and Aion) They make it so that you no longer need a group for most of the content in the game and people get out of the habbit of doing so. Combine that with the fact that a lot of the begining chat systems leave something to be desired (that or it is just the people not wanting to talk in a general chat anymore). Well enough before I go too much off topic and start ranting.
I never understood the Bazaar and the ruining of the open area markets, although not all servers used Western Commonlands.
That area was just awesome, go there, watch the spam of items, haggle with people, get to know the regular sellers, the guild bank sellers etc, it was like an entirely new aspect of the game that was seperate from fighting. If you were really clever and smart you could go there with a relatively rare item and upgrade via buying and selling.
Never understood the decision to remove that and have Auction houses. Esp when you consider it was player generated....it was Web 2.0 LONG before Web 2.0 became a buzzword, it was completely and utterly created by the players with no tools at all put forward by developers. Why take out something the players created? So silly.
I never got into EQ 1 was more of a Asheron's Call player but I to miss the social aspect of MMOs. DAoC was a great game as well. All of them where as fun as they where (for me) because they took time and effort to play, there was more to do than level and PvP, you had need to socialize, group, guild and all back before the days of guild rank, etc.
I'm not saying that the advances made are bad but I would like to see a slightly less condensed game. All of the MMOs I have played since DAoC have been fun but failed to hold my attention for long and I think the reason is due to what we the players wanted.
We wanted auchtion houses that killed the player ran bartering that used to be a main factor in my MMO play, we wanted instances which killed the social dungeons which is where I meet the majority of my long term gamer friends. We griped about the down time between battles, and the long travel times and thus the OOoo and Awww of the game has been striped away to a matter of a few end game instances and some PvP action which is fun but pales in comaprison to the since of acomplish ment when I finaly unlocked that new skill, or was strong enough to enter that new zone after weeks or months of fun and challanging play.
I dont think we should take a step backwards but I do have plenty of concepts that I think would bring back that since of accomplishment and depth of play while levraging the advancments that have been made, not that you care to read about them here and Im sure profession developers could do better if only they knew more missed the glory days.
EQ's appeal always seemed centered around being too new to MMORPGs to understand how bad it was. For a long time, every time I heard someone talk about EQ1 I would learn about some new way it was terrible and wonder why anyone bothered with it at all (apart from knowing that the answer was there weren't any alternatives.)
Creating another EQ-like game is not about resurrecting 1999 graphics, class design, and interfaces; it is about recreating the challenge and mystery those games had.
And I think those elements are sorely needed in MMO's.
You can't recreate the mystery of a genre which is new to you in the same genre!
Challenge is doable. Well, as long as your definition of challenge is difficult content and not masochistic game mechanics. Masochistic game mechanics have been phased out for a reason.
Mystery is even doable to a degree, but the majority of players seem to want the "entirely new genre of games" feel while buying games in the same genre they're familiar with. That just isn't going to happen.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Then why everybody always screm WoW WoW WOW? I never played EQ so I wouldnt know
WoW is a diffrent kind of MMO and I personaly dont consider it a MMORPG but rather a MMOAdventure. WoW is more popular becuase it targets a much wider market. The game is very easy to pick up and very few frustrating or diffcult parts and focuses on the goal not the journy. None of thouse are bad things but none of thouse are features of what older players know as MMO game play. An MMO is a time consuming game where end game was not a key feature. Players didnt have tons of alts all maxed inside of 6 months they typicaly had 1 main and that character was them (i.e. RPG role playing game), they may have an alt or 2 for specific uses such as a mule back before banks or a trader before the auchton houses but they ID them selves as X player in Y guild. The depth of game we are reminicing about will never likely hold the player base that we see with WoW not becasue its not as good but because its targeting a smaller group to a greater level of acuracy. To hit 12mil people with that level of acuracy you would need several unique MMOs which is what I hope to see honistly as long as the server I play on has a stable population I dont care if the game as 12000 users or 12mill users.
I never understood why people thought that the most popular was the best game, odds are the game that is most widly popular will not be the game that is the most fun to you but rather the game that most people find fun enough to play. I play WoW, War, EQ2, Darkfall and a meryaid of other games WoW in terms of the MMOs I play is clearly the most popular in the wide market but is by no stretch of the imagination my fav current release MMO and I would not call it the best the industry has to offer at the moment. None of the current realse MMOs have the hold on me that DAoC did pre SI expansion and Im not sure any of the current options I have seen will Aion seems intresting yet still highly condenced and most likely not as deep as I would like.
EQ2 is a good game with a stable population and I could go for a EQ3 with more of the old MMO depth to it (EQ2 is again highly condensed)
There needs to be less hand-holding if they do decide to make another EQ. The orginal EQ was so great because you had to work with what you had and make an effort together with the community. Just like the commons was the sort of the place where the community decided to gather together and sell. We don't need a Bazaar or an auction house, that's the same as having your very own e-bay in an MMO, but this is fantasy and it should have some room to allow the players to figure things out for themselves. It should give them more reasons to organize together. We don't need a LFG tool, just talk in /shout and advertise yourself - BE SOCIAL. We don't need a flight master, teleporter, or whatever, ASK a druid or a wizard to port you (and remember to tip them!) I made enough money to buy a freakin' horse from my teleporting tips. Need KEI or Cleric buffs? Just go and ask! Chanters and Clerics offered their services everywhere. These are some of the reasons why EQ was so much fun.
Vanguard went a long way towards what I would want in an eq3. It had a superior combat system, and a good mix of classes and races. A big world, and better quest system and more quests. Superior crafting system, and a whole new sphere of diplomacy. But it failed in a few ways. First and foremost was the poor coding. So bad it turned many away and so bad it took years to repair it. Secondly, it had no places to hang out. People went to town to bank, diplo, and craft. But not to socialize or exchange buffs. And finally they screwed up by increasing the xp rate before they had a decent end game in place so it ended up with practically everyone at level cap with only one raid dungeon to go to. Original eq always had several choices of where to go to raid.
Basically the game design was almost perfect, but coding and end game content were lacking.
I read there is a project in the works actually called at the moment Everquest - Next However Everquest had major issues to a lot of nostalgia i feel fo rit also my first MMO..but ..group lists and camp checks ..the birth of elitism ..in a way EQ went from a casual fun adventure ..to a serious full time business of grind and camp..and it would be a step backwards to recreate it as it was then. I agree group content and the need for guilds is being left behind the main reason I play MMO..but if EQ3 is anything like EQ2 id rather they dont bother...EQ2 in my opinion is why WoW is so sucessful..
Only reason WOW was so sucessful is Blizzard had the good sense to advertise the damn thing on TV.
If AION would advertise on TV right now thier servers will crash from millions of players all trying to log in on launch day too.
There are several MMO's that have been out awhile that are way better than WOW if only other companies had the good sense to advertise on TV. I just don't get it, is advertising on TV really that expensive or what?
Seeing how much worse was EQ2 compared to EQ classic, EQ3 would be something incredibly worthless, so no thanks.
EQ Next (EQ3) is most likely going to be built on the Free realms engine and be a microtransaction income model (assuming free realms is doing well). It most ceraintly could be much worse than EQ2 and EQ1.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
There are no games like original EQ possibility for me to play online for the first time anymore. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQplaying your very first MMO without angry teenagers.
Fixed for you.
More seriously, MMO are now targeted toward teenagers, who are a pain to play with; also, lvling gets old, whatever the game, after the hundreth time.
on EQ you found adults, it was your (my first MMO), but the whole concept simply got old for most of us old timers.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Vanguard went a long way towards what I would want in an eq3. It had a superior combat system, and a good mix of classes and races. A big world, and better quest system and more quests. Superior crafting system, and a whole new sphere of diplomacy. But it failed in a few ways. First and foremost was the poor coding. So bad it turned many away and so bad it took years to repair it. Secondly, it had no places to hang out. People went to town to bank, diplo, and craft. But not to socialize or exchange buffs. And finally they screwed up by increasing the xp rate before they had a decent end game in place so it ended up with practically everyone at level cap with only one raid dungeon to go to. Original eq always had several choices of where to go to raid.
Basically the game design was almost perfect, but coding and end game content were lacking.
I beta tested Vanguard, I would have bought the game too, but they completely changed the class I was playing a day before they ended beta, and I am not talking a tweak, they utterly changed everything, which they had only tested in house. They didn't care about the feedback from the players and it was then that I realised.....this isn't a game I want to get involved with, the developers are just going to do what they want to do and screw the playerbase's opinion.
I had just left EQ and suffered at the hands of the developers there. That pissed me off.
So did the fact that after following the game avidly for 3 years in development they gave Beta tests to fileplanet users AHEAD of those fans that had been following the game. Another slap to the fanbase that put me in a bad mood.
In the end, I never bought it, never played the release. Then it is Brad, the man has no idea how to handle fans.
There are no games like original EQ possibility for me to play online for the first time anymore. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQplaying your very first MMO without angry teenagers.
Fixed for you.
More seriously, MMO are now targeted toward teenagers, who are a pain to play with; also, lvling gets old, whatever the game, after the hundreth time.
on EQ you found adults, it was your (my first MMO), but the whole concept simply got old for most of us old timers.
Thing is, it isn't fixed.
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
Some people really don't understand psychology nor should they. EQ the game was very badly designed, which is why its mechanics don't hold up by todays standards. Its a fact, so lets get it out of the way. The socializing aspects were not specifically planned by Verant. They just happened due to the nature of this new beast called a MMORPG. The relationships formed in the game due to people of similar backgrounds sharing a similar NEW experience for the first time. That experience can NOT be duplicated until another unique genre of game comes out. No MMOs in the pipeline are unique enough to get that same "first time" response. EQ was a BADLY designed game. However, the experiences it provided were obviously memorable for better or sometimes worse. Remaking EQ with new graphics will NOT allow people who played the original to recapture that feeling. Remaking EQ with new graphics also will NOT allow people who played WOW for a while or any other to recapture that experience either. Sorry. Its not coming back. You can't recapture that first year of college. You can't recapture that first time driving alone in your first car. You can't recapture that first kiss. You can't recapture the first of ANYTHING until its something a completely new experience. The first MMO you really got "into" is a unique thing.
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
If you strictly look at game mechanics, WoW is better than EQ in every single aspect.
The mechanics, the forced grouping, the tedium, the need to cooperate to advance... they defined the game, but they weren't at the core of it's legacy: EverQuest was special because it was the first and only virtual fantasy 3D world at its time, making the experience unique.
The problem of nowadays MMO's ressemble that of the car market: too much control and science makes it less fun to drive, but the modern cars are definitely better than the old ones.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I want an EQIII that works and plays like EQI in most respects, while keeping some of the things we have learned since then. I'd play that I think.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Only reason WOW was so sucessful is Blizzard had the good sense to advertise the damn thing on TV. If AION would advertise on TV right now thier servers will crash from millions of players all trying to log in on launch day too. There are several MMO's that have been out awhile that are way better than WOW if only other companies had the good sense to advertise on TV. I just don't get it, is advertising on TV really that expensive or what? "If you see it on TV...It MUST be true!" ... Garfield ...
That's not really the case. WoW did advertise on TV, but their success came from the fundamental realization that the people they were going to attract from TV were different than the then-current crop of MMO players. What had been, at best, a few hundred thousand people playing became millions virtually overnight, but if they had offered a hardcore UO or EQ style game, WoW would have failed. The people who entered the MMO marketplace were much more casual, much more soft-core players who wanted instant gratification, low risk, relatively easy content that gave them constant rewards and validation for their half-assed efforts. That's the kind of playerbase MMOs have today, people who don't want to work particularly hard or spend a lot of time on a timesink, they want to get on, do something and go have a life elsewhere.
Had UO or EQ advertised on TV, they still would have failed, they might have had a lot of one-month subs to try them out, but they were far too hard for most of the new casual players to stick with in the long term.
Originally posted by Cephus404 Originally posted by Wrender Only reason WOW was so sucessful is Blizzard had the good sense to advertise the damn thing on TV. If AION would advertise on TV right now thier servers will crash from millions of players all trying to log in on launch day too. There are several MMO's that have been out awhile that are way better than WOW if only other companies had the good sense to advertise on TV. I just don't get it, is advertising on TV really that expensive or what? "If you see it on TV...It MUST be true!" ... Garfield ...
That's not really the case. WoW did advertise on TV, but their success came from the fundamental realization that the people they were going to attract from TV were different than the then-current crop of MMO players. What had been, at best, a few hundred thousand people playing became millions virtually overnight, but if they had offered a hardcore UO or EQ style game, WoW would have failed. The people who entered the MMO marketplace were much more casual, much more soft-core players who wanted instant gratification, low risk, relatively easy content that gave them constant rewards and validation for their half-assed efforts. That's the kind of playerbase MMOs have today, people who don't want to work particularly hard or spend a lot of time on a timesink, they want to get on, do something and go have a life elsewhere. Had UO or EQ advertised on TV, they still would have failed, they might have had a lot of one-month subs to try them out, but they were far too hard for most of the new casual players to stick with in the long term.
I think you do not give people enough credit.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
If you strictly look at game mechanics, WoW is better than EQ in every single aspect.
The mechanics, the forced grouping, the tedium, the need to cooperate to advance... they defined the game, but they weren't at the core of it's legacy: EverQuest was special because it was the first and only virtual fantasy 3D world at its time, making the experience unique.
The problem of nowadays MMO's ressemble that of the car market: too much control and science makes it less fun to drive, but the modern cars are definitely better than the old ones.
That's not necessarily true. Everquest did a few things better than WoW. The AA System was amazing and gave people a reason besides just gear to group up and socialize. The raiding was way better, it wasn't such a linear progression path and everyone didn't get reset with every expansion.
Also, as funny as it is with how many thousands of quests that WoW has now days, EQ quests were better! That's right, EQ rarely had you going after 10 dog hides, if you were doing a quest in EQ it was to kill something big or go somewhere hard to reach. The Questlings in EQ were Epic in comparison to WoWs, and the actual Epic Questlines brought together guilds and friends alike to work towards a common goal.
Some people play these games for the social aspect. Those are the people that want EQ1 back. I am one of those people.
I think an Everquest 3 can still be appealling. There is this tendency to believe mmos can be only one way- that of the battle.net style. But they can be different. This is what old school fans go blue in the face saying but people just dismiss it as nostalgia. That being said I reckon an Everquest 3 would be a bit of a minefield going by the far-outness of EQ2. How does the OP envisage an Everquest 3, and make it different/compelling for new players to want to play?
If SOE wants to earn back their market share, and get players to like them again, they should seriously think about going for EQ3 and SWG2. People have been looking for years for the next EQ1, an upgraded version of EQ1 with improved graphics, engine, zone-less world, while keeping the same gameplay, lore, and depth. There just hasn't been a game out there that even has gotten close to it. Yes I know, EQ1 was controversial back in the days with its harsh death penalties, slow leveling, and all sorts of inconveniences, but those were the old days. The game has improved on these things over the years and I think today the game fits better with today's gamers, while still keeping that Everquest feel. It would be really awesome to see an EQ3, or SWG2 someday.
Unfortunately, with the way Smed is directing SOE, I don't think it'll happen. And if it does happen, they'd butcher the games up so badly that they'll even have a worse reception by gamers than EQ2 did when it first launched. The games would probably be plagued by RMT and they would play nothing like EQ1 or the original SWG. So while I would love to see it happen, for one I don't think it will, and two if it does happen I'm afraid to see what they'll do to the games.
Smed isn't good for SOE imo. I love the devs that work on the games such as EQ1 right now, they're dedicated and they do good things for the game. Unfortunately it's the management that force certain things onto us players, and it's the management that constantly take resources away to build their new future projects in their attempt to attract a different audience.
There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Exactly. Whats he talking about? I too want some EQ3, combining the best of EQ and EQ2. Most games, at least all big ones, tried to be very specialized. I would like to see a bit whole world once again, something not dared since VG, and we know that failed.
Comments
The unfortunate reality though is that the vast majority of MMO players, the people who keep these games in business, don't care about challenge or mystery, they want something they can play through in a couple of months with little or no trouble. I agree with you, those things are needed but any company that adopted them would go out of business in short order, there just isn't enough of a paying playerbase to keep them afloat.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Then why everybody always screm WoW WoW WOW? I never played EQ so I wouldnt know
Everquest Next
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
People are trying to recreate it but in the end it's the players that keep it from coming back.
I never played the original EQ, and I think that makes me lucky.
Games like www.dawntide.net/ I think are trying to get that classic feel.
I don't know, when I read about systems in games that try to recreate EQ all I see is
TEDIUM.
I never understood the Bazaar and the ruining of the open area markets, although not all servers used Western Commonlands.
That area was just awesome, go there, watch the spam of items, haggle with people, get to know the regular sellers, the guild bank sellers etc, it was like an entirely new aspect of the game that was seperate from fighting. If you were really clever and smart you could go there with a relatively rare item and upgrade via buying and selling.
Never understood the decision to remove that and have Auction houses. Esp when you consider it was player generated....it was Web 2.0 LONG before Web 2.0 became a buzzword, it was completely and utterly created by the players with no tools at all put forward by developers. Why take out something the players created? So silly.
I never got into EQ 1 was more of a Asheron's Call player but I to miss the social aspect of MMOs. DAoC was a great game as well. All of them where as fun as they where (for me) because they took time and effort to play, there was more to do than level and PvP, you had need to socialize, group, guild and all back before the days of guild rank, etc.
I'm not saying that the advances made are bad but I would like to see a slightly less condensed game. All of the MMOs I have played since DAoC have been fun but failed to hold my attention for long and I think the reason is due to what we the players wanted.
We wanted auchtion houses that killed the player ran bartering that used to be a main factor in my MMO play, we wanted instances which killed the social dungeons which is where I meet the majority of my long term gamer friends. We griped about the down time between battles, and the long travel times and thus the OOoo and Awww of the game has been striped away to a matter of a few end game instances and some PvP action which is fun but pales in comaprison to the since of acomplish ment when I finaly unlocked that new skill, or was strong enough to enter that new zone after weeks or months of fun and challanging play.
I dont think we should take a step backwards but I do have plenty of concepts that I think would bring back that since of accomplishment and depth of play while levraging the advancments that have been made, not that you care to read about them here and Im sure profession developers could do better if only they knew more missed the glory days.
Creating another EQ-like game is not about resurrecting 1999 graphics, class design, and interfaces; it is about recreating the challenge and mystery those games had.
And I think those elements are sorely needed in MMO's.
You can't recreate the mystery of a genre which is new to you in the same genre!
Challenge is doable. Well, as long as your definition of challenge is difficult content and not masochistic game mechanics. Masochistic game mechanics have been phased out for a reason.
Mystery is even doable to a degree, but the majority of players seem to want the "entirely new genre of games" feel while buying games in the same genre they're familiar with. That just isn't going to happen.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Then why everybody always screm WoW WoW WOW? I never played EQ so I wouldnt know
WoW is a diffrent kind of MMO and I personaly dont consider it a MMORPG but rather a MMOAdventure. WoW is more popular becuase it targets a much wider market. The game is very easy to pick up and very few frustrating or diffcult parts and focuses on the goal not the journy. None of thouse are bad things but none of thouse are features of what older players know as MMO game play. An MMO is a time consuming game where end game was not a key feature. Players didnt have tons of alts all maxed inside of 6 months they typicaly had 1 main and that character was them (i.e. RPG role playing game), they may have an alt or 2 for specific uses such as a mule back before banks or a trader before the auchton houses but they ID them selves as X player in Y guild. The depth of game we are reminicing about will never likely hold the player base that we see with WoW not becasue its not as good but because its targeting a smaller group to a greater level of acuracy. To hit 12mil people with that level of acuracy you would need several unique MMOs which is what I hope to see honistly as long as the server I play on has a stable population I dont care if the game as 12000 users or 12mill users.
I never understood why people thought that the most popular was the best game, odds are the game that is most widly popular will not be the game that is the most fun to you but rather the game that most people find fun enough to play. I play WoW, War, EQ2, Darkfall and a meryaid of other games WoW in terms of the MMOs I play is clearly the most popular in the wide market but is by no stretch of the imagination my fav current release MMO and I would not call it the best the industry has to offer at the moment. None of the current realse MMOs have the hold on me that DAoC did pre SI expansion and Im not sure any of the current options I have seen will Aion seems intresting yet still highly condenced and most likely not as deep as I would like.
EQ2 is a good game with a stable population and I could go for a EQ3 with more of the old MMO depth to it (EQ2 is again highly condensed)
There needs to be less hand-holding if they do decide to make another EQ. The orginal EQ was so great because you had to work with what you had and make an effort together with the community. Just like the commons was the sort of the place where the community decided to gather together and sell. We don't need a Bazaar or an auction house, that's the same as having your very own e-bay in an MMO, but this is fantasy and it should have some room to allow the players to figure things out for themselves. It should give them more reasons to organize together. We don't need a LFG tool, just talk in /shout and advertise yourself - BE SOCIAL. We don't need a flight master, teleporter, or whatever, ASK a druid or a wizard to port you (and remember to tip them!) I made enough money to buy a freakin' horse from my teleporting tips. Need KEI or Cleric buffs? Just go and ask! Chanters and Clerics offered their services everywhere. These are some of the reasons why EQ was so much fun.
Vanguard went a long way towards what I would want in an eq3. It had a superior combat system, and a good mix of classes and races. A big world, and better quest system and more quests. Superior crafting system, and a whole new sphere of diplomacy. But it failed in a few ways. First and foremost was the poor coding. So bad it turned many away and so bad it took years to repair it. Secondly, it had no places to hang out. People went to town to bank, diplo, and craft. But not to socialize or exchange buffs. And finally they screwed up by increasing the xp rate before they had a decent end game in place so it ended up with practically everyone at level cap with only one raid dungeon to go to. Original eq always had several choices of where to go to raid.
Basically the game design was almost perfect, but coding and end game content were lacking.
Seeing how much worse was EQ2 compared to EQ classic, EQ3 would be something incredibly worthless, so no thanks.
Only reason WOW was so sucessful is Blizzard had the good sense to advertise the damn thing on TV.
If AION would advertise on TV right now thier servers will crash from millions of players all trying to log in on launch day too.
There are several MMO's that have been out awhile that are way better than WOW if only other companies had the good sense to advertise on TV. I just don't get it, is advertising on TV really that expensive or what?
"If you see it on TV...It MUST be true!"
... Garfield ...
EQ Next (EQ3) is most likely going to be built on the Free realms engine and be a microtransaction income model (assuming free realms is doing well). It most ceraintly could be much worse than EQ2 and EQ1.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Fixed for you.
More seriously, MMO are now targeted toward teenagers, who are a pain to play with; also, lvling gets old, whatever the game, after the hundreth time.
on EQ you found adults, it was your (my first MMO), but the whole concept simply got old for most of us old timers.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I beta tested Vanguard, I would have bought the game too, but they completely changed the class I was playing a day before they ended beta, and I am not talking a tweak, they utterly changed everything, which they had only tested in house. They didn't care about the feedback from the players and it was then that I realised.....this isn't a game I want to get involved with, the developers are just going to do what they want to do and screw the playerbase's opinion.
I had just left EQ and suffered at the hands of the developers there. That pissed me off.
So did the fact that after following the game avidly for 3 years in development they gave Beta tests to fileplanet users AHEAD of those fans that had been following the game. Another slap to the fanbase that put me in a bad mood.
In the end, I never bought it, never played the release. Then it is Brad, the man has no idea how to handle fans.
Fixed for you.
More seriously, MMO are now targeted toward teenagers, who are a pain to play with; also, lvling gets old, whatever the game, after the hundreth time.
on EQ you found adults, it was your (my first MMO), but the whole concept simply got old for most of us old timers.
Thing is, it isn't fixed.
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
Some people really don't understand psychology nor should they. EQ the game was very badly designed, which is why its mechanics don't hold up by todays standards. Its a fact, so lets get it out of the way. The socializing aspects were not specifically planned by Verant. They just happened due to the nature of this new beast called a MMORPG. The relationships formed in the game due to people of similar backgrounds sharing a similar NEW experience for the first time. That experience can NOT be duplicated until another unique genre of game comes out. No MMOs in the pipeline are unique enough to get that same "first time" response. EQ was a BADLY designed game. However, the experiences it provided were obviously memorable for better or sometimes worse. Remaking EQ with new graphics will NOT allow people who played the original to recapture that feeling. Remaking EQ with new graphics also will NOT allow people who played WOW for a while or any other to recapture that experience either. Sorry. Its not coming back. You can't recapture that first year of college. You can't recapture that first time driving alone in your first car. You can't recapture that first kiss. You can't recapture the first of ANYTHING until its something a completely new experience. The first MMO you really got "into" is a unique thing.
True VR is the next step.
Thing is, it isn't fixed.
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
If you strictly look at game mechanics, WoW is better than EQ in every single aspect.
The mechanics, the forced grouping, the tedium, the need to cooperate to advance... they defined the game, but they weren't at the core of it's legacy: EverQuest was special because it was the first and only virtual fantasy 3D world at its time, making the experience unique.
The problem of nowadays MMO's ressemble that of the car market: too much control and science makes it less fun to drive, but the modern cars are definitely better than the old ones.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I want an EQIII that works and plays like EQI in most respects, while keeping some of the things we have learned since then. I'd play that I think.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
That's not really the case. WoW did advertise on TV, but their success came from the fundamental realization that the people they were going to attract from TV were different than the then-current crop of MMO players. What had been, at best, a few hundred thousand people playing became millions virtually overnight, but if they had offered a hardcore UO or EQ style game, WoW would have failed. The people who entered the MMO marketplace were much more casual, much more soft-core players who wanted instant gratification, low risk, relatively easy content that gave them constant rewards and validation for their half-assed efforts. That's the kind of playerbase MMOs have today, people who don't want to work particularly hard or spend a lot of time on a timesink, they want to get on, do something and go have a life elsewhere.
Had UO or EQ advertised on TV, they still would have failed, they might have had a lot of one-month subs to try them out, but they were far too hard for most of the new casual players to stick with in the long term.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
That's not really the case. WoW did advertise on TV, but their success came from the fundamental realization that the people they were going to attract from TV were different than the then-current crop of MMO players. What had been, at best, a few hundred thousand people playing became millions virtually overnight, but if they had offered a hardcore UO or EQ style game, WoW would have failed. The people who entered the MMO marketplace were much more casual, much more soft-core players who wanted instant gratification, low risk, relatively easy content that gave them constant rewards and validation for their half-assed efforts. That's the kind of playerbase MMOs have today, people who don't want to work particularly hard or spend a lot of time on a timesink, they want to get on, do something and go have a life elsewhere.
Had UO or EQ advertised on TV, they still would have failed, they might have had a lot of one-month subs to try them out, but they were far too hard for most of the new casual players to stick with in the long term.
I think you do not give people enough credit.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Thing is, it isn't fixed.
You have made a claim, and you are not even original in that claim, that others have already shot down. What made EQ different was the way in which the game worked, not the fact that itw as my first MMORPG. It was about socialising and grouping which games of today lack.
I played Champions Online Beta test, you know how many people I spoke to? none. Not one. I was in 3 groups I think at most over the course of about 2 weeks of play and although I attempted to start conversations, no one spoke. There was no need to speak. There was the odd bit of chatter in OOC channels, but if you were in battle you couldn't keep up and the UI design did not make it easy to create extra chat boxes and put them around the screen.
It isn't that EQ was the first MMORPG I played, it was more about the game play aspects that were lost, even during the development of EQ.
If you strictly look at game mechanics, WoW is better than EQ in every single aspect.
The mechanics, the forced grouping, the tedium, the need to cooperate to advance... they defined the game, but they weren't at the core of it's legacy: EverQuest was special because it was the first and only virtual fantasy 3D world at its time, making the experience unique.
The problem of nowadays MMO's ressemble that of the car market: too much control and science makes it less fun to drive, but the modern cars are definitely better than the old ones.
That's not necessarily true. Everquest did a few things better than WoW. The AA System was amazing and gave people a reason besides just gear to group up and socialize. The raiding was way better, it wasn't such a linear progression path and everyone didn't get reset with every expansion.
Also, as funny as it is with how many thousands of quests that WoW has now days, EQ quests were better! That's right, EQ rarely had you going after 10 dog hides, if you were doing a quest in EQ it was to kill something big or go somewhere hard to reach. The Questlings in EQ were Epic in comparison to WoWs, and the actual Epic Questlines brought together guilds and friends alike to work towards a common goal.
Some people play these games for the social aspect. Those are the people that want EQ1 back. I am one of those people.
I think an Everquest 3 can still be appealling. There is this tendency to believe mmos can be only one way- that of the battle.net style. But they can be different. This is what old school fans go blue in the face saying but people just dismiss it as nostalgia.
That being said I reckon an Everquest 3 would be a bit of a minefield going by the far-outness of EQ2. How does the OP envisage an Everquest 3, and make it different/compelling for new players to want to play?
If SOE wants to earn back their market share, and get players to like them again, they should seriously think about going for EQ3 and SWG2. People have been looking for years for the next EQ1, an upgraded version of EQ1 with improved graphics, engine, zone-less world, while keeping the same gameplay, lore, and depth. There just hasn't been a game out there that even has gotten close to it. Yes I know, EQ1 was controversial back in the days with its harsh death penalties, slow leveling, and all sorts of inconveniences, but those were the old days. The game has improved on these things over the years and I think today the game fits better with today's gamers, while still keeping that Everquest feel. It would be really awesome to see an EQ3, or SWG2 someday.
Unfortunately, with the way Smed is directing SOE, I don't think it'll happen. And if it does happen, they'd butcher the games up so badly that they'll even have a worse reception by gamers than EQ2 did when it first launched. The games would probably be plagued by RMT and they would play nothing like EQ1 or the original SWG. So while I would love to see it happen, for one I don't think it will, and two if it does happen I'm afraid to see what they'll do to the games.
Smed isn't good for SOE imo. I love the devs that work on the games such as EQ1 right now, they're dedicated and they do good things for the game. Unfortunately it's the management that force certain things onto us players, and it's the management that constantly take resources away to build their new future projects in their attempt to attract a different audience.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
There are no games like original EQ. Nothing, I think I played every available MMORPG out there, apart from very new released/beta (and some of htem i done too) and nothing gets close to the original EQ.
Exactly. Whats he talking about? I too want some EQ3, combining the best of EQ and EQ2. Most games, at least all big ones, tried to be very specialized. I would like to see a bit whole world once again, something not dared since VG, and we know that failed.