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Fast to level up... is it good?
tyorke
Member Posts: 46
many times i read
"It's fast to level, i got level 25 in few days" or "the grind is good i got lv 15 in a couple of hours"
like that is a good thing.
I dont really understand why, why do i have to reach the level cap that fast?
I played and loved lotro, but many times it was really hard to find group for some fellow quests because you dont need them to level up, u can solo all the way up, but those quests are really great and fun, people dont know what they are missing?
people are always saying that lineage 2 is too grindy and there are not quests, talking to a guy (never played myself) he told me that people go around and group to explore, kill bosses and get good rewards even tho there are not quests.
if it is like that, it sound fun, doesnt it?
i really got bored once i got the level cap in lotro... all i had to do was to raiding to get the change to roll for better (and all the same for anyone) gear... boring to me
Playing aoc... the same...
anyway do u care more to reach the top level fast or to enjoy the game?
sorry if my english is not perfect
< Thank god I am atheist
Comments
I guess its just the way people are. Some people are impatient, and just want the max level cap, so they want a fast lvling game. Some people just want to go with the flow and enjoy the game, and dont really care about the lvling fast. Me personnaly, I just like a game where lvling isnt the only thing that matters, I like to have professions, a good quest system, etc.
Currently Playing: MapleStory
Have Played: RuneScape, Guild Wars, WoW.
Waiting For: Guild Wars 2
No its not.
Fast leveling & solo "grinding"(if you feel you're grinding, a.k.a. not having fun, GTFO of the genre) to the "end game"(what a joke.. the journey is whats important. An ongoing adventure that never ends) is what destroyed the genre imo...
It's good to level up quickly if there isn't a lot that is worth doing at each level. If you have lots of good, solid, varied content for a given level, then there's no need to get to the next one. If stuff happens like, you "run out of quests" for the next 3 levels, then you want to level ASAP and get to the next "break point" for quests. So realistically, it depends on the amount of content.
C
People who reach the top lvl fast do enjoy that.
I do agree that I don't see the point doing that in a MMORPG as for me they are games and not some job I need to complete within a certain timeframe, but then again if it's fun it's alright for me.
Problem I see often (which does not mean always but just often as there are plenty of gamers that do lvl fast and keep playing the game on what ever lvl) that those who do lvl fast often seem to get bored and start to blame the game, where those of us into MMORPG for some years know there is more to a MMORPG then doing quest, lvl, and get loot/gear. And getting bored with a game is more due to someone's playstyle then it's the games fault, as I still like to believe that if people don't like something they leave and not continue untill they get bored as again that would not make any sense.
I also said many times grind is a playstyle people put on themselfs. Sorry not one MMORPG I have played felt like I was grinding, here you have a quest kill 1000 something, I see people all the time just going for that, I say it's a MMORPG plenty of time to eventually kill those 1000, perhaps 10 today, tommorow some more, perhaps next week a few more, meanwhile there is so much else to do within a MMORPG, but of course if a MMORPG does not provide enough to do besides killing 1000 somethings, then I already have left the game as thats not the type of MMORPG I like to spend time with.
So personaly I don't feel lvl'ing fast has done any good towards this genre.
I dont think is good for the company to make level that fast...
i paid lotro for 8 months... i played too much at the end game.
i remember people have 6 alt.... i cant i like to have one and have stuff to do forever...
people are too busy talking about which game will fail next...
lol so annoying that...
< Thank god I am atheist
People who reach the top lvl fast do enjoy that.
I do agree that I don't see the point doing that in a MMORPG as for me they are games and not some job I need to complete within a certain timeframe, but then again if it's fun it's alright for me.
Problem I see often (which does not mean always but just often as there are plenty of gamers that do lvl fast and keep playing the game on what ever lvl) that those who do lvl fast often seem to get bored and start to blame the game, where those of us into MMORPG for some years know there is more to a MMORPG then doing quest, lvl, and get loot/gear. And getting bored with a game is more due to someone's playstyle then it's the games fault, as I still like to believe that if people don't like something they leave and not continue untill they get bored as again that would not make any sense.
I also said many times grind is a playstyle people put on themselfs. Sorry not one MMORPG I have played felt like I was grinding, here you have a quest kill 1000 something, I see people all the time just going for that, I say it's a MMORPG plenty of time to eventually kill those 1000, perhaps 10 today, tommorow some more, perhaps next week a few more, meanwhile there is so much else to do within a MMORPG, but of course if a MMORPG does not provide enough to do besides killing 1000 somethings, then I already have left the game as thats not the type of MMORPG I like to spend time with.
So personaly I don't feel lvl'ing fast has done any good towards this genre.
I second this, I always think that I am running out of thime and I try to reach max lvl fast while I have time to play. This is usually only for my main characters, with my alts I try to follow story and I level slower but it's more fun. For my main character it's all about end-game so for me getting there fast is important step if I am planning to stick around long enough.
I hate lvling. Stupid system thats out of control atm. End game should start early and nevver trully be atainable.. thats why I play Eve.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
i dont play that much because i work and i have life... wife, son, friends even tho...
ive got level 50 in aoc in a couple of weeks.
i'd like to play a game where i can never reach as u said the end game, where i can always improve,
specially where not everyone wear the same gear got from the same raid :P
< Thank god I am atheist
I agree with this. End game killed it and I'm sure developers would of made the game levelless if money wasn't such an important factor, but the leveling prereq forces people to subscribe for even longer before they get to actually experience what is "most of the game". If they interspersed end game within the levels more evenly and stretched out leveling, I think a game would feel more immersive and complete. But no, they think anything new they create is so special that you have to throw it at the max level, leaving everything crammed at the top and everything before it empty. I think MMO's should go back to some of their roots and take what has worked and what was good about them and work it with the more recent innovations.
I will start off being honest and say I am a power leveler. I like to get to the max level quickly because raiding is what I enjoy. But I also feel fast leveling is a bad thing. EQ took a long time to reach max level, when speaking of the beginning before power leveling and the such. Most people took months to reach 50 and one thing resulted from spending so much time leveling. They learned how to play their character. I mean they learned every possible way to play their character. Spending so much time leveling and facing difficult encounters forced you to attempt things you never tried before. Kiting, reverse kiting, crowd control with other classes besides Enchanter, quad kiting, etc. were all things players discovered during their journey of leveling.
Today, most games allow you to level so quickly that you are never required to reach deep and figure out new ways to accomplish things. In each quest, you simply do the same thing you did five levels ago and you succeed, gain a level and move on to rinse and repeat.
Personally, I believe to be successful at raiding, you must know everything about your character. Every possible action your character can take with more to still be learned. To me, that is what made EQ so much fun. Fights like Avatar of War, Venril Sathir, Trakanon in the beginning required thought and experience to win. People had to know their character so they could perform their role in the fight. Nowadays, everything is pretty stale and scripted. Watch the script, adjust what the group does until you do it all right and you win. In EQ, you may know how the fight played out, but if everyone didn't preform their role correctly, you lost. If one person didn't do their job, you would wipe.
I suspect that this rush to level to the cap is one of the reasons that WoW is only going to increase to level 85 instead of 90 or higher. When there are only a few levels between you and the top there isn't as much urgency to ignore everything else just to get the leveling done. Another reason of course for WoW to do this is that everytime they did it the effectively trashed all of their old content. And then of course if you want to attract new players who wants to start out at level 1 with the up hill climb to 80, 90, 100, etc to look forward to.
To a certain extent the content in the middle of most current MMOs is wasted and needless. They should just have a tutorial starter section and once done you are at max level and then all the content is set up for that. Imagine Molten Core still being a viable raiding instance or that you could still run around any of the other zones and find mobs and quests to work on? And for PvP it pretty much solves the major problem of ganking low levels though a newbie is going to die to an experienced player most of the time no matter what.
With Vanguard one of the goals was to have a huge world with a lot to do and that the trip was a big part of the adventure though unfortunately it didn't work out that way and they had lots of other problems which didn't help.
I have semi-retired my WoW characters but I suspect I will go back and get all my level 80 toons moved up but I am not going to race or worry about it and most likely once I hit 85 and have looked around again I will probably retire them again as I just don't find the grind in WoW enjoyable any more.
I agree that it shouldnt be a race to cap. The best grind is the game where leveling isnt a 'grind' but is fun. Fun games are those were you dont realize you are leveling
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Leveling should be as fast or slow as it needs to be to keep the game feeling fresh. If the leveling is going to be really fast, there better be an endgame worth playing. Personally I enjoy leveling up the most because it involves the most exploration, the most learning and character development, which are the best parts of an RPG. Endgame basically means repetition anyway.
Normally when I read, "I reached max level in X number of days, its normally followed by, "...but the endgame sucks or ...I'm bored". Thats when I realise that person is an idiot because they were rushing=) Then where they bitch about how fast it took or how boring it was.../facepalm.
that's what i was saying, lot of people rush that much that most of the times is really hard to find group to explore everything
as u know many times u need group to go in some hidden places.
It's sad that many times i had to skip some (problaby) fun quests and visit some place because i couldnt find any group even if i was looking for hours, just because everyone was so busy to grind....
.... that's so sad.
< Thank god I am atheist
The levels aren't the real problem, the games are. As it is right now, MMOs are designed to make you want to get better and stronger. I don't completely agree with that. Levels should be like birthdays. You don't work hard to reach your birthday. You just do whatever it is you do, then it happens, and it's time for celebration. It should just be something that occurs, but you're not worried about it, because you're having too much fun.
I have a hard time having fun during the leveling process, because until you reach the end, it's extremely monotonous (and I'm not saying end game isn't). How many times can I go kill X amount of mobs, deliver something, or escort someone without getting bored of it? The problem is, the AI is not good enough. If MMO AI was better we would have much more variety.
Most mobs are reskinned versions of other mobs, with maybe 1-2 different skills. Everybody knows the process in 99.9% of MMOs; click mob, attack, mob usually runs up to you and does basic attacks with a skill or 2, use your most effective skills, loot, and repeat till the last level. There is absolutely no variety, and all the mobs are dumb as hell.
It would also help if there were more things to do in MMOs. I like crafting, only because I can make things for myself, or friends. I don't like the actual process of crafting, though. Players could level crafting through mini games, fun ones. I'm sure there are many casual games devs can get inspiration from. Either that, or be able to design their own armor, weapons, etc through in game tools. Maybe, a combination of both.
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Simple version
Leveling is very monotonous, and I would rather get to the end and PvP at max level. Mob AI is too dumb and I repeat the same thing every time. MMOs these days need to have better AI and more FUN things to do at any level.
No its not a good thing. These games cost tens of millions of dollars to develop. To recoup the costs the devs need to sell boxes and get subscriptions. If people get to end game quickly, they get bored and quit. The don't keep paying their monthly fee and the company can't recoup their money. That makes it harder to create new content and fix existing issues as they have to strip their staff.
A lot of games have released and they have had no problems selling boxes but they can't keep their subs. While the majority of this reason is because the game sucks part of the reason is also that people are maxing out their characters in 90 days or less.
They get bored of doing the same endgame content and devs can't create content fast enough to keep them happy.
Players are also getting bored becasue the game is too damned easy and its no challenge. Of course so many people bitch and whine that they want an easy game b/c they have a "life" and they don't want to devote their life to a game and they should get the lame loot as everyone else b/c they pay their fee liek everyone else.
But I think this is just another example of people not knowing what they want. Yea it may be easier but its also more boring - so they quit.
So in conclusion:
Make the games harder and make it harder to level!!!
More people will play!!!
Stop catering to the casual whiners as this isn't where your market is really at. These casuals aren't leaving WoW no matter what you make. These people are gonna jump on whatever bandwagon everyone else is on. So many game released in the last few years has been easier than WoW and they flop - stop repeating the same stupid mistakes.
this this this this this this thissss!
Omg, going to any game after being a vet of EQ just seems like nothing.
Leveling took time, it took skill, and it sure as hell took communication if you ever wanted to level faster.
Even powerleveling when people did it took forever, and you could only what, get to level 25 with it? then youd be done.
And another thing about leveling slowly that i enjoy is people become accustomed and attuned to that one character; they dont have about 10 other characters that they can just switch onto.
It requires more skill; more thought process, and a hell of a lot more patience.
which is what made leveling in EQ so fun;
And is why EQ will reign supreme in PvE standards to me atleast.
PS - All mammals have nipples.
Get over it already.
mm i use to want to be lvl 60 fast in wow ,now i play eq2 and believe me i m in no hurry ,even if i wanted i couldnt lol,just try to do i tin hammer in eq2 you ll see what i mean you would have done probably 15 or 25 in wow by the time you made 1 in eq2 lol
probably same as eq2 love this man ,great change compared to wow .but wow was good for me i was a beginner in mmo so wow is perfect starter
but eq2 is way better in my view once your a bit experienced
It's good to to be able to level quickly in older MMORPGs where there aren't as many low level players, but I'm all for a slower climb up the ladder for newly released games.
I would also argue that learning your class has little to do with how quickly you level up but instead, how often you are required to group with other players. If you are able to solo your way to the max level and still be efficiently geared, you have little reason to learn how to operate your character in a group environment regardless of how long it took you to get there.
I think the last paragraph can be seen through games like WoW with fast leveling. I had people from different classes trying to ask me what I should do in regards to talents, builds and some people don't even know when they should roll NEED on an item upgrade (as in they don't roll at all for fear of being scolded for misrolling maybe?). I would hope by max level, everyone would know the in's and out's of their classes (and not the game mechanics, but the advantages/disadvantages and what you can/cannot do?), but there are people out there that don't. You also wonder why people are getting pickier and pickier with selecting members for their raids/groups because people like this tend to cause problems (even if unintentionally). Then again, you might also want to partially blame a game for actually having an end-game because its near impossible to learn your group roles before level 80 when the old instances are near useless and no one runs them in groups any more.
I'm of the opinion that the leveling up process should be based on story quests meant to move along the bigger picture. So taking wow for example, I'd remove all the kill 10 rats etc quests and focus the remaining quests on tying up the storyline, adding a few more game-story oriented quests to get that perfect leveling curve. Start with basic solo play, move on to small groups, move up to mid/large (10-15 man) groups, and end with a relatively low difficulty raid. You could also add pvp levels along the same path for variety and preparation for the different modes of pvp you can participate in.
In the end, you'll probably end up with about a month to two month leveling path for a new character. This is good time spent that introduces the player to game mechanics and tells them a neat baseline story in the process. It's not too long and it's not too short. The hardcore gamers will be completely "leveled" anywhere from 2-4 weeks, and the slower players will likely level up in 4-6 months max.
Note though that although you reach max "level" quickly, the end game is a series of player advancement tactics that essentially "level" your character through your choice of mechanics. You'll have a good amount of repeatable and new dungeon running content, some raids for the *elite* with non-gear rewards, hidden and one-time quests that allow stat or skill bonuses, "meta" leveling over the life of the game (e.g. unattainable max meta level that would give small stat bonuses) player events, GM events, scripted events, continual addition of top level new land and dungeons, pvp with consistent new battlegrounds, arenas, open pvp areas, politics, in-depth crafting, resource gathering with mining options, player housing, guild housing, factories, player cities, fortresses, etc etc etc.
The whole point here is to make the basic story to level in a fun fashion, relatively quickly, and completely focus the development of the game on the "end-game". The end game should pretty much be all encompassing, whereas the leveling process was only an introductory period.
This is the kind of design my preferred mmo would have.
I've enjoyed WOW/GW's fast leveling.
I've enjoyed COX's slow leveling.
Different games; different content focuses. Both are enjoyable as long as the content you're doing is fun (which is why I lean a little towards slow leveling, as WOW's fast leveling means they've put less effort into making leveling fun, and it shows...whereas in COX I'm always doing the content I enjoy.)
Plus, slow leveling means your character is still leveling which means you're still getting a trickle of fun new abilities while your WOW character has stagnated at max level. In other words, it's a little more fun to get new abilities and gear, than to just get gear.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When there is months of content between you and everyone else (which is probably just a level grind), yeah, leveling faster is good. After all, you cannot learn your "end game" role solo the majority of the time so what is the level grind really teaching the player? To me, it doesn't matter the leveling speed too much as long as there are people your character can actually play with. Fast leveling is more of a requirement of the game design than it is one of overall necessity, in my opinion.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Not true.
You've described a problem specific to WOW's approach to endgame vs. earlygame.
Imagine WOW where quest XP is halved and instancing XP doubled. In such a game you would basically be forced to group to have any sort of reasonable leveling speed. In such a game, the level grind would be preparing you for endgame.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver