So we are not allowed to enjoy and discuss our game? We are not allowed to like it? Good to know how this forum works. Time to visit other places that people can discuss aspects of the game, good or bad, without trolls coming in to disrupt intelligent discourse. This place is as bad as the VBI forums.
Well, I am going to throw my two cents in here. SnarlingWolf does indeed provide a solid counter-argument to everyone's conjecture here, seeing that most of it, while based on several incidents which are indeed rooted in truth, are also very emotionally inflamed. I myself am a Guild Wars fan and always have been (have played it since release).
However, with that said, I believe the point that is being made in opposition is that, while the fans on this thread do not hold anyone from posting anything, they believe that people posting with posts that are either A. ignorant, B. simple trolling, or C. personal in attacks against people or a company are unwarranted and hence, they do not feel these opinions are worthy opinions.
Depending on how you take this, we could discuss whether any opinion is worthy all day. One side may argue that all opinions are worthy while another argues that only a few are correct.
So, for everyone else:
If you do not agree with SnarlingWolf, please do not argue any further with them. All you are going to do, especially if you do not think your argument out clearly, is provoke further hostility on this thread. Discuss your game as you see fit and ignore the proclaimed "haters", "trolls", etc. Do not let their remarks bog you down.
Otherwise, post as you will.
Lastly, to SnarlingWolf: While I agree that all opinions are valuable (an assumption I am making on your previous posts), I am one of the people that feel that some opinions are more worthy than others. This is not just for this game, but everything in general. To me, this worth is based on a myriad of factors about the person proposing said opinion, many of which can only be inferred or guessed at through a medium like the internet. You making your statement here, on this thread for instance, is interesting, but only akin to a hundred others who do the same to anyone who complains similarly about experiences akin to those posted here on this forum or another. You may feel it is otherwise, but remember, no matter who or what you may be in real life, only a small part of that is translated here on the internet.
And with that. I will say, I do have high hopes for this game. Then again, I have for most games, coming from a game development background myself. I hope for companies to achieve their goals, making the best games they can.
their are parts of the "who cares" group that probably wont like GW2 no matter what they do since the combat mechanics are bound to be similar (in the way that d1 and d2 are similar)
however when you see them start to complain about the whole game being instanced.... well thats when you know they didnt bother to read anything.
GW2 is the first game i have actually given hype rating to.
I can't say i've spent much time looking into GW2 but i have glanced over things and to me it sounds like ArenaNet are Improving on a popular title (GW). Due to my enjoyment with GW i am therefore looking forward to GW2. I agree with a previous poster about ArenaNet LISTENING to the player base that actually play the game and have legitimate ideas to throw their way instead of just HEARING and ignoring or listening to those that want the game to be something entirely different just so they'd be interested in playing it. As said before, everyone has different ideas on things, different tastes and, possibly most important of all, different ways of having fun, which is the main reason for games in the first place. whats the point in releasing an entirely different game if everyone likes the same thing?
The way i see things from how the OP started this thread, his argument wasn't against those not interested in GW2, it was against those who bait and troll when they don't know a lot (if anything) about the said game (like me). It's not a case of haters vs fanboys, it's a case of legitimate GW players (and players of other games) getting annoyed by the people who troll and flame something they know nothing or very little about, this is evident in a previous post where it was mentioned about a comment box where someone had said "instance = fail" or something like that, first off it's a false statement in general as GW was very popular and still is, secondly it shows that the poster knew nothing about GW2 as it's persistant and i believe i read somewhere that the quests are/might be instanced. in my opinion this is a good thing cause it means a nice open world game yet you don't have to worry about people farming a spot for something when you have a quest there. ZERO arguments are caused and both sides are happy doing what they want to do.
Lydon, truly, you are a king of men! Thank you for calling out the cutthroat trolls. I think most of the hate is because of NCSoft, and these same trolls do not understand who or what Arenanet is.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
The fact is that a great number of people posting on this forums are just bored fanboys who dedicate their life to trash other games while defending their precious game. The saddest part is that they are so bored of their games that they spend most of their time posting here about other games instead of actually playing. Many people would have alot more fun if they just stop thinking about stupid comparisons and whos the best or worst company and actually played games to have fun.
I played Guild Wars for around 2 years, and just stopped because after Eye of the North I got bored since i am a PvE players. I am sure Arenanet will launch a great game and I will certainly be among the first ones to buy it on launch
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
The fact is that a great number of people posting on this forums are just bored fanboys who dedicate their life to trash other games while defending their precious game. The saddest part is that they are so bored of their games that they spend most of their time posting here about other games instead of actually playing. Many people would have alot more fun if they just stop thinking about stupid comparisons and whos the best or worst company and actually played games to have fun.
I played Guild Wars for around 2 years, and just stopped because after Eye of the North I got bored since i am a PvE players. I am sure Arenanet will launch a great game and I will certainly be among the first ones to buy it on launch
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
Check that was in GuildWars, in the form of putting skill points into certain class related skills (Warrior = Swords, Axe etc) not to mention the fact that players went after a certain boss in order to collect a skill that could only be gained that way.
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
Check that was also in GuildWars, plenty of farming groups for getting Victo's blade or heading out to an area where certain colour dye drops more commonly and the skill bit is mentioned above.
i sure hope your post wasn't to try and prove GW wasn't and RPG as it did the opposite.
The fact is that a great number of people posting on this forums are just bored fanboys who dedicate their life to trash other games while defending their precious game. The saddest part is that they are so bored of their games that they spend most of their time posting here about other games instead of actually playing. Many people would have alot more fun if they just stop thinking about stupid comparisons and whos the best or worst company and actually played games to have fun.
I played Guild Wars for around 2 years, and just stopped because after Eye of the North I got bored since i am a PvE players. I am sure Arenanet will launch a great game and I will certainly be among the first ones to buy it on launch
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
Check that was in GuildWars, in the form of putting skill points into certain class related skills (Warrior = Swords, Axe etc) not to mention the fact that players went after a certain boss in order to collect a skill that could only be gained that way.
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
Check that was also in GuildWars, plenty of farming groups for getting Victo's blade or heading out to an area where certain colour dye drops more commonly and the skill bit is mentioned above.
i sure hope your post wasn't to try and prove GW wasn't and RPG as it did the opposite.
No I never said it wasnt a RPG, as it has character development, but its still lacking. And seems to be what the developers are against.
Gear was meaningless, LvLing was Short, There is no Crafting Skill, there is no Gathering Skill,
Guild Wars was my first "Buy 2 Play" MMO, coming from MMORPGs like Runescape. And from the hype, and the Box Price, I expected something that would be better or equal to the F2P MMOs I was playing "Runescape and Sherwood Dungons"
Yet when I got into the game, I soon Quit. Not because I hated the game before hand, but because It lacked in the areas of Character Development, which I look forward to when I buy a RPG game.
Runescape has Lvling, Crathing, Gathering, and other developments, Even a large open world. Only problem I had was the Graphics and the PvP system, and maybe a more fun combat system.
Guild wars has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking.
Tro44_1, I am pretty sure no one here will care what you have to say after hearing that you think Guild Wars was worse than Runescape. Even people that don't particularly like Guild Wars have to agree it is better than that trash. Thanks for letting us know you have no taste, so we can ignore you now.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Yet when I got into the game, I soon Quit. Not because I hated the game before hand, but because It lacked in the areas of Character Development, which I look forward to when I buy a RPG game. Guild wars has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking.
You see, that's like saying:
"Counter Strike has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking."
And not realizing what is wrong with that statement.
No I never said it wasnt a RPG, as it has character development, but its still lacking. And seems to be what the developers are against.
Gear was meaningless, LvLing was Short, There is no Crafting Skill, there is no Gathering Skill,
Guild Wars was my first "Buy 2 Play" MMO, coming from MMORPGs like Runescape. And from the hype, and the Box Price, I expected something that would be better or equal to the F2P MMOs I was playing "Runescape and Sherwood Dungons"
Yet when I got into the game, I soon Quit. Not because I hated the game before hand, but because It lacked in the areas of Character Development, which I look forward to when I buy a RPG game.
Runescape has Lvling, Crathing, Gathering, and other developments, Even a large open world. Only problem I had was the Graphics and the PvP system, and maybe a more fun combat system.
Guild wars has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking.
Depends on your Point of View..
Guildwars is great to me. and it takes Talent to play.
Personally found Guildwars had better Character development than say WoW and other similar clones. The skills/levels were way harder than Ezy mode WoW. I must say i cared about my characters in Guildwars, But in WoW clones Characters are just another grind alt in the making or pack mule.
Its not about the Armors or weapons for a change its about the Players skills and the Real Players Skills too.
Skill hunting was and is way more fun than leveling on stuff 24/7, To me its so damn boring it puts me to sleep and takes so much of my time and fun away.
Gathering is just a similar term for boring grinding except no mobs are involved and you usually get squat from doing it.
Crafting is just a way for P2P players to look pretty or make money so they can buy uber gearz to grind for hours more and more. In Guildwars there was no need for this Epeen enlarging fest. (sorry couldn't resist)
and yes Guildwars Graphics were the best for years in my opinion.
Crown the Wise, Harness the Talented, and Cherish the Lucky...... The Dragon Lofwyr.
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf So if I happen to disagree with your "undenyable fact" that ArenaNet is an innovator then I shouldn't post? Every company in existance has people who like it and those who don't, there will never be a unanimous agreeance. I also don't think that CCP releasing free expansions is anything amazing but then again I've played AC for a long time and they have had free monthly content updates, over 110 of them.
Sure I can agree that it is annoying when someone posts something that's wildly innaccurate about a game. But it will happen and you have to roll with it. Not everyone has the time to read every bit of info spread out over the net on a game that is in beta, not to even mention the amount of time that the information that comes out while in beta turns out to be wrong. So instead of assuming that the person is just an idiot or an a-hole why not post back with a post like "ArenaNet put out information which says...." There's no reason to start a thread dedicated to people adding their posts about how stupid the world is (to be fair I don't think you personally refered to people that way, just all the bandwagoners)
There's nothing wrong with liking a company or a game. But to decide that it is wrong of someone else to disagree with you about that company is wrong. It is called an opinion for a reason, it can't be right or wrong. It's no different then hating someone because they're of a different religion or a different sexual orientation because in your mind that is just wrong (yes I know there is a difference in severity between this and those examples).
Personally I don't care about who likes what game and who hates it. I like to have discussions on these forums and it is becoming harder to do. This isn't just because of the people who only post "it sucks" it is just as much because of people who don't like that others disagree with them and then want them off of "their" boards. There's no reason for either side to be resorting to name calling and personal attacks, or for either side to think that the others shouldn't post.
Firstly, your posts are coming across as rather aggressive. There's no need to get aggressive over a simple discussion. We are all intelligent adults (so I hope) capable of a discussion without it having to resort to flaming.
But anyway, moving on - considering I wrote the initial post, I feel I am qualified enough to say that you are still not understanding the points I were getting across. What you are complaining about has little to do with the OP.
I have stated it twice before, and I'll state it again for the third time - people are allowed to like/dislike games. That is their right. They are also allowed to like/dislike companies and developers as they wish too. However, and this is my first point - many of those comments are based on no fact whatsoever and as a result are unfair. My initial example - the poster who had a lot to say about instances being "fail" clearly has absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever regarding Guild Wars 2. They obviously didn't even bother to read through this site's overview of the game, which would have taken a simple minute or two. Yet somehow that person felt qualified to try to sound smart in delivering their opinion that is based on, well, nothing. It's not about people not having time to read "every bit of info spread out on over the net," it's about them reading anything at all.
My second point was that people are unfairly griefing on ArenaNet, not because they dislike them. If someone has a legitimate complaint about them, then by all means they should voice it. This, however, has not been the case and is what I was attempting to address with this thread. Fanboys and trolls alike cannot deny that Guild Wars had a smooth release. It was polished at launch and what the developers promised was delivered. If I didn't like Guild Wars I would still respect ArenaNet for that. That same policy applies to other companies, which is why I mentioned CCP. Eve Online may not be my favourite game, but I respect CCP for what they have done and are doing. That is my key point - the past few major MMO releases have been dreadful, but people feel ArenaNet deserve to be treated as they are being by some despite their excellent launch back in 2005. It is a case of small-mindedness.
The reason I created a thread in order to voice this is because you cannot respond to posts in the game's hype section. Replying to everyone seperately via PM would be a lot of unnecessary work.
And lastly, I find your last paragraph quite ironic considering you're the one who is getting aggressive in this topic due to people disagreeing with you.
I completely agree. I've been an avid gw player since only like a month after its initial release and i'm a huge fan of what arena net has to offer to new players and to fans alike. Having played wow, aoc, and war, its just amazing comparing the quality of those games to what arena net has accomplished using their free to play model. They continue to keep the game in good shape to this day and im looking forward to gw2 more than any other mmo currently in production or future release. Despite what people may say about gw, there is no denying that it is a quality game that doesn't punish those who play casualy and rewards those who play it seriously. Frankly i don't care what negative opinions a person may have about this game because i know that, in my opinion, it is one of the best online games I have played. Can't wait for gw2!
People hear F2P and just assume it's not as good. Some people think having 8 skills in a fight was terrible, even if in other games they use less than that in 99% of situations. They still enjoy the options to use them at anytime.
As to people that just "KNOW" GW2 is going to be exactly like GW1, and posting, screaming and yelling that it is just that anywhere, yeah...well. Some people are just like that.
also the game is not *f2p* as some say it is you gotta pay for a cd key retail box whatever so its not realy f2p also the game has had more content and polished then any other game ive ever played that is next to wow also its sold millions of copies so people saying its the worse and it will fail just like gw 1 are stupid/noobs and thats a fact also its the only mmo with true pvp
When talking in terms of F2P vs P2P, initial purchase is ignored and is generally referring to monthly fees. If the intial purchase was taken into concideration, then a lot of F2P games would be considered P2P as well since they have cash items etc which it gets to a point where you almost have to buy them.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
%100 agreed. GW was the most polished game I have ever played. Arenanet never fails to deliver. Can't wait for GW2!!
Halo 2 is more polished.
Elder Scroll Oblivion
Diablo
Just about any other Single Player RPG is more polished. I never need patches for thoses as I do in GW
no oblivion still have some WTF crashes.
and i belive he said in MMORPG category.
CHILL DAWG!
now: GW2 (11 80s). Dark Souls 2. future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord. "Bro, do your even fractal?" Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
There is no doubt that Guild wars 2 is my most anticipated game....just slightly over diablo 3.
I dont really know anything about the Dev team for guild wars 2.....but if it is basically the same as the dev team for guild wars 1 I have all the confidence in the world that this game will be stable, beautiful and fun.
Other then blizzard i dont know any company that puts out such solid games as Arena net.
Currently Playing: Fallen Earth Played and liked: TCOS, Vanguard, Guild Wars, DDO Played and didn't like: CO, MO, STO, DF, AoC, WAR, WoW, EQ2, EVE, most f2p Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, Secret World
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf So if I happen to disagree with your "undenyable fact" that ArenaNet is an innovator then I shouldn't post? Every company in existance has people who like it and those who don't, there will never be a unanimous agreeance. I also don't think that CCP releasing free expansions is anything amazing but then again I've played AC for a long time and they have had free monthly content updates, over 110 of them.
Sure I can agree that it is annoying when someone posts something that's wildly innaccurate about a game. But it will happen and you have to roll with it. Not everyone has the time to read every bit of info spread out over the net on a game that is in beta, not to even mention the amount of time that the information that comes out while in beta turns out to be wrong. So instead of assuming that the person is just an idiot or an a-hole why not post back with a post like "ArenaNet put out information which says...." There's no reason to start a thread dedicated to people adding their posts about how stupid the world is (to be fair I don't think you personally refered to people that way, just all the bandwagoners)
There's nothing wrong with liking a company or a game. But to decide that it is wrong of someone else to disagree with you about that company is wrong. It is called an opinion for a reason, it can't be right or wrong. It's no different then hating someone because they're of a different religion or a different sexual orientation because in your mind that is just wrong (yes I know there is a difference in severity between this and those examples).
Personally I don't care about who likes what game and who hates it. I like to have discussions on these forums and it is becoming harder to do. This isn't just because of the people who only post "it sucks" it is just as much because of people who don't like that others disagree with them and then want them off of "their" boards. There's no reason for either side to be resorting to name calling and personal attacks, or for either side to think that the others shouldn't post.
Firstly, your posts are coming across as rather aggressive. There's no need to get aggressive over a simple discussion. We are all intelligent adults (so I hope) capable of a discussion without it having to resort to flaming.
But anyway, moving on - considering I wrote the initial post, I feel I am qualified enough to say that you are still not understanding the points I were getting across. What you are complaining about has little to do with the OP.
I have stated it twice before, and I'll state it again for the third time - people are allowed to like/dislike games. That is their right. They are also allowed to like/dislike companies and developers as they wish too. However, and this is my first point - many of those comments are based on no fact whatsoever and as a result are unfair. My initial example - the poster who had a lot to say about instances being "fail" clearly has absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever regarding Guild Wars 2. They obviously didn't even bother to read through this site's overview of the game, which would have taken a simple minute or two. Yet somehow that person felt qualified to try to sound smart in delivering their opinion that is based on, well, nothing. It's not about people not having time to read "every bit of info spread out on over the net," it's about them reading anything at all.
My second point was that people are unfairly griefing on ArenaNet, not because they dislike them. If someone has a legitimate complaint about them, then by all means they should voice it. This, however, has not been the case and is what I was attempting to address with this thread. Fanboys and trolls alike cannot deny that Guild Wars had a smooth release. It was polished at launch and what the developers promised was delivered. If I didn't like Guild Wars I would still respect ArenaNet for that. That same policy applies to other companies, which is why I mentioned CCP. Eve Online may not be my favourite game, but I respect CCP for what they have done and are doing. That is my key point - the past few major MMO releases have been dreadful, but people feel ArenaNet deserve to be treated as they are being by some despite their excellent launch back in 2005. It is a case of small-mindedness.
The reason I created a thread in order to voice this is because you cannot respond to posts in the game's hype section. Replying to everyone seperately via PM would be a lot of unnecessary work.
And lastly, I find your last paragraph quite ironic considering you're the one who is getting aggressive in this topic due to people disagreeing with you.
First off, if you compare my posts to the posts stating people are idiots or morons, or cussing because I disagree I think you will find the difference in aggression level. Sorry you read posts of how your view of others is more bias then their posts and it bothers you and thus you find it aggressive.
You have a lot of love for ArenaNet and you enjoy their products, for that reason you fail to understand how others dislike ArenaNet. And therefore you feel anyone who dislikes ArenaNet is wrong. That isn't the case, as I stated it is purely opinion, both yours and theirs. I personally feel they are mediocre at best and don't deserve the amount of hype you throw their way, but I also acknowledge that as an opinion. That's the part you're not getting, no you haven't proven that everyone should love and respect ArenaNet, and it is still an opinion everyone is entitled to. So people will continue to hate them, just as you love them and nothing is wrong with that. They had a smooth release, so have tons of other basically single player but have multiplayer online option games. And people above me have even posted examples. It isn't some amazing feat that no one has done before.
For every person who says that GW2 will be bad using wrong information there are cases of players saying GW2 will be amazing because of wrong information or pure speculation. It balances out. And unfortunatly to make a big stand against people forming opinions without proper information, well I'm not sure where you live but sadly in the country I live in that is how the government is elected. The majority of votes are cast with wrong or a lack of information, it is just how the world works. But once again it works both ways, people say something sucks due to lack of information, others say the same thing is great with a lack of information.
So if MMORPG.COM is going to decide it's forums have to be all or nothing that is great. They can delete all positive and negative posts that either have no facts to back up the opinion, or wrong facts to back up the opinion.
Or we can accept this as a public open forum and that there will always be cases of both, along with cases of differing opinions, and of course there will be people who hate a company that you so love. But them hating the company is no less right then you loving it.
I liked the color coding though, next time I want some charts and a power point to go along with it for the extra touch.
2) However, some are complaining WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE GAME WHATSOEVER
3) and others are hating on ArenaNet WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC REASON
Every single one of your posts has accused me of saying that people are not allowed to have their opinions, when I have stated that fact THREE times very clearly so that you would grasp it. Alas, I expected too much. NOWHERE in my original post did I say people are not allowed to complain.
What I did acknowledge was that: they ARE complaining, many of the complaints are utterly baseless and that considering ArenaNet have run Guild Wars very well - regardless of whether or not people like it - they deserve far more credit that many are giving them in comparison to other MMO companies I mentioned as examples. In other words - the people in question would do well to research a game before cutting their noses off to spite their faces. Where did I state "You, SnarlingWolf, may not have an opinion and if you do it is wrong?" That's right - nowhere.
You're harping on about one vague thing after another that has added absolutely nothing to the thread and has instead resulted in numerous people trying to get the message across to you. Unfortunately it seems like a lost cause. In one final effort to try to get you to fathom the obvious intention behind the thread, I leave you with this: its existence is to acknowledge the issues and encourage people to give the game and ArenaNet a chance, not to simply blindly hate on it.
If the concept still escapes you then that is sad. I'm glad you're the only one who has struggled to grasp it so far.
Comments
So we are not allowed to enjoy and discuss our game? We are not allowed to like it? Good to know how this forum works. Time to visit other places that people can discuss aspects of the game, good or bad, without trolls coming in to disrupt intelligent discourse. This place is as bad as the VBI forums.
Well, I am going to throw my two cents in here. SnarlingWolf does indeed provide a solid counter-argument to everyone's conjecture here, seeing that most of it, while based on several incidents which are indeed rooted in truth, are also very emotionally inflamed. I myself am a Guild Wars fan and always have been (have played it since release).
However, with that said, I believe the point that is being made in opposition is that, while the fans on this thread do not hold anyone from posting anything, they believe that people posting with posts that are either A. ignorant, B. simple trolling, or C. personal in attacks against people or a company are unwarranted and hence, they do not feel these opinions are worthy opinions.
Depending on how you take this, we could discuss whether any opinion is worthy all day. One side may argue that all opinions are worthy while another argues that only a few are correct.
So, for everyone else:
If you do not agree with SnarlingWolf, please do not argue any further with them. All you are going to do, especially if you do not think your argument out clearly, is provoke further hostility on this thread. Discuss your game as you see fit and ignore the proclaimed "haters", "trolls", etc. Do not let their remarks bog you down.
Otherwise, post as you will.
Lastly, to SnarlingWolf: While I agree that all opinions are valuable (an assumption I am making on your previous posts), I am one of the people that feel that some opinions are more worthy than others. This is not just for this game, but everything in general. To me, this worth is based on a myriad of factors about the person proposing said opinion, many of which can only be inferred or guessed at through a medium like the internet. You making your statement here, on this thread for instance, is interesting, but only akin to a hundred others who do the same to anyone who complains similarly about experiences akin to those posted here on this forum or another. You may feel it is otherwise, but remember, no matter who or what you may be in real life, only a small part of that is translated here on the internet.
And with that. I will say, I do have high hopes for this game. Then again, I have for most games, coming from a game development background myself. I hope for companies to achieve their goals, making the best games they can.
their are parts of the "who cares" group that probably wont like GW2 no matter what they do since the combat mechanics are bound to be similar (in the way that d1 and d2 are similar)
however when you see them start to complain about the whole game being instanced.... well thats when you know they didnt bother to read anything.
GW2 is the first game i have actually given hype rating to.
I can't say i've spent much time looking into GW2 but i have glanced over things and to me it sounds like ArenaNet are Improving on a popular title (GW). Due to my enjoyment with GW i am therefore looking forward to GW2. I agree with a previous poster about ArenaNet LISTENING to the player base that actually play the game and have legitimate ideas to throw their way instead of just HEARING and ignoring or listening to those that want the game to be something entirely different just so they'd be interested in playing it. As said before, everyone has different ideas on things, different tastes and, possibly most important of all, different ways of having fun, which is the main reason for games in the first place. whats the point in releasing an entirely different game if everyone likes the same thing?
The way i see things from how the OP started this thread, his argument wasn't against those not interested in GW2, it was against those who bait and troll when they don't know a lot (if anything) about the said game (like me). It's not a case of haters vs fanboys, it's a case of legitimate GW players (and players of other games) getting annoyed by the people who troll and flame something they know nothing or very little about, this is evident in a previous post where it was mentioned about a comment box where someone had said "instance = fail" or something like that, first off it's a false statement in general as GW was very popular and still is, secondly it shows that the poster knew nothing about GW2 as it's persistant and i believe i read somewhere that the quests are/might be instanced. in my opinion this is a good thing cause it means a nice open world game yet you don't have to worry about people farming a spot for something when you have a quest there. ZERO arguments are caused and both sides are happy doing what they want to do.
Lydon, truly, you are a king of men! Thank you for calling out the cutthroat trolls. I think most of the hate is because of NCSoft, and these same trolls do not understand who or what Arenanet is.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)
Check that was in GuildWars, in the form of putting skill points into certain class related skills (Warrior = Swords, Axe etc) not to mention the fact that players went after a certain boss in order to collect a skill that could only be gained that way.
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm
Check that was also in GuildWars, plenty of farming groups for getting Victo's blade or heading out to an area where certain colour dye drops more commonly and the skill bit is mentioned above.
i sure hope your post wasn't to try and prove GW wasn't and RPG as it did the opposite.
I would like to add to this, that Hype isnt something you should look forward to when looking at new upcoming games.
As my Teacher always said " History doesnt repeat History, People repeat History"
Most MMOs have their problems during lanch. Anet has shown in their past that they have had problems when it comes to making a wanna be MMO. GW1 was more of a Diablo Clone then a MMO. And yes there idea of changing the MMORPG genre could be a good thing, but it aint.
GW1 lacked the fundamental elements of a MMO, and was against the main thing that "Defines Role Playing Games as a Genre"
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm
all Role Playing Games follow this commend genre trend. It is what defined RPG video games from Sport, Fighting, Shooters,ext
And this was one thing that GW lacked, and was against. And I would dislike to see this additude towards Character development of GW1, being reintroduced into GW2.
it must have some method of increasing and strengthening those statistics (usually but not necessarily by way of the experience/level system).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_(video_games)
Check that was in GuildWars, in the form of putting skill points into certain class related skills (Warrior = Swords, Axe etc) not to mention the fact that players went after a certain boss in order to collect a skill that could only be gained that way.
The emphasis in role playing games is on increasing the abilities of the characters (stats such as strength, magical power, sword skill and the like) and collecting items (better armor, healing potions, etc) that allow the completion of the quest.
http://psp.about.com/od/pspglossary/g/roleplaygamedef.htm
Check that was also in GuildWars, plenty of farming groups for getting Victo's blade or heading out to an area where certain colour dye drops more commonly and the skill bit is mentioned above.
i sure hope your post wasn't to try and prove GW wasn't and RPG as it did the opposite.
No I never said it wasnt a RPG, as it has character development, but its still lacking. And seems to be what the developers are against.
Gear was meaningless, LvLing was Short, There is no Crafting Skill, there is no Gathering Skill,
Guild Wars was my first "Buy 2 Play" MMO, coming from MMORPGs like Runescape. And from the hype, and the Box Price, I expected something that would be better or equal to the F2P MMOs I was playing "Runescape and Sherwood Dungons"
Yet when I got into the game, I soon Quit. Not because I hated the game before hand, but because It lacked in the areas of Character Development, which I look forward to when I buy a RPG game.
Runescape has Lvling, Crathing, Gathering, and other developments, Even a large open world. Only problem I had was the Graphics and the PvP system, and maybe a more fun combat system.
Guild wars has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking.
Tro44_1, I am pretty sure no one here will care what you have to say after hearing that you think Guild Wars was worse than Runescape. Even people that don't particularly like Guild Wars have to agree it is better than that trash. Thanks for letting us know you have no taste, so we can ignore you now.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
You see, that's like saying:
"Counter Strike has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking."
And not realizing what is wrong with that statement.
Hype train -> Reality
With MMOs, it is always best to wait until the launch, or if you are lucky enough until you get to a beta.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
No I never said it wasnt a RPG, as it has character development, but its still lacking. And seems to be what the developers are against.
Gear was meaningless, LvLing was Short, There is no Crafting Skill, there is no Gathering Skill,
Guild Wars was my first "Buy 2 Play" MMO, coming from MMORPGs like Runescape. And from the hype, and the Box Price, I expected something that would be better or equal to the F2P MMOs I was playing "Runescape and Sherwood Dungons"
Yet when I got into the game, I soon Quit. Not because I hated the game before hand, but because It lacked in the areas of Character Development, which I look forward to when I buy a RPG game.
Runescape has Lvling, Crathing, Gathering, and other developments, Even a large open world. Only problem I had was the Graphics and the PvP system, and maybe a more fun combat system.
Guild wars has the better Graphics and Combat and PvP, but the RPG Video Game elements were lacking.
Depends on your Point of View..
Guildwars is great to me. and it takes Talent to play.
Personally found Guildwars had better Character development than say WoW and other similar clones. The skills/levels were way harder than Ezy mode WoW. I must say i cared about my characters in Guildwars, But in WoW clones Characters are just another grind alt in the making or pack mule.
Its not about the Armors or weapons for a change its about the Players skills and the Real Players Skills too.
Skill hunting was and is way more fun than leveling on stuff 24/7, To me its so damn boring it puts me to sleep and takes so much of my time and fun away.
Gathering is just a similar term for boring grinding except no mobs are involved and you usually get squat from doing it.
Crafting is just a way for P2P players to look pretty or make money so they can buy uber gearz to grind for hours more and more. In Guildwars there was no need for this Epeen enlarging fest. (sorry couldn't resist)
and yes Guildwars Graphics were the best for years in my opinion.
Crown the Wise, Harness the Talented, and Cherish the Lucky......
The Dragon Lofwyr.
Firstly, your posts are coming across as rather aggressive. There's no need to get aggressive over a simple discussion. We are all intelligent adults (so I hope) capable of a discussion without it having to resort to flaming.
But anyway, moving on - considering I wrote the initial post, I feel I am qualified enough to say that you are still not understanding the points I were getting across. What you are complaining about has little to do with the OP.
I have stated it twice before, and I'll state it again for the third time - people are allowed to like/dislike games. That is their right. They are also allowed to like/dislike companies and developers as they wish too. However, and this is my first point - many of those comments are based on no fact whatsoever and as a result are unfair. My initial example - the poster who had a lot to say about instances being "fail" clearly has absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever regarding Guild Wars 2. They obviously didn't even bother to read through this site's overview of the game, which would have taken a simple minute or two. Yet somehow that person felt qualified to try to sound smart in delivering their opinion that is based on, well, nothing. It's not about people not having time to read "every bit of info spread out on over the net," it's about them reading anything at all.
My second point was that people are unfairly griefing on ArenaNet, not because they dislike them. If someone has a legitimate complaint about them, then by all means they should voice it. This, however, has not been the case and is what I was attempting to address with this thread. Fanboys and trolls alike cannot deny that Guild Wars had a smooth release. It was polished at launch and what the developers promised was delivered. If I didn't like Guild Wars I would still respect ArenaNet for that. That same policy applies to other companies, which is why I mentioned CCP. Eve Online may not be my favourite game, but I respect CCP for what they have done and are doing. That is my key point - the past few major MMO releases have been dreadful, but people feel ArenaNet deserve to be treated as they are being by some despite their excellent launch back in 2005. It is a case of small-mindedness.
The reason I created a thread in order to voice this is because you cannot respond to posts in the game's hype section. Replying to everyone seperately via PM would be a lot of unnecessary work.
And lastly, I find your last paragraph quite ironic considering you're the one who is getting aggressive in this topic due to people disagreeing with you.
I completely agree. I've been an avid gw player since only like a month after its initial release and i'm a huge fan of what arena net has to offer to new players and to fans alike. Having played wow, aoc, and war, its just amazing comparing the quality of those games to what arena net has accomplished using their free to play model. They continue to keep the game in good shape to this day and im looking forward to gw2 more than any other mmo currently in production or future release. Despite what people may say about gw, there is no denying that it is a quality game that doesn't punish those who play casualy and rewards those who play it seriously. Frankly i don't care what negative opinions a person may have about this game because i know that, in my opinion, it is one of the best online games I have played. Can't wait for gw2!
%100 agreed. GW was the most polished game I have ever played. Arenanet never fails to deliver. Can't wait for GW2!!
Long Ago - Dark Age of Camelot, Guild Wars
Now - Aion
Looking Forward To - SW: TOR, GW2, FF14
Will Never Touch Again - WoW
Smashed Hopes - Vanguard
People hear F2P and just assume it's not as good. Some people think having 8 skills in a fight was terrible, even if in other games they use less than that in 99% of situations. They still enjoy the options to use them at anytime.
As to people that just "KNOW" GW2 is going to be exactly like GW1, and posting, screaming and yelling that it is just that anywhere, yeah...well. Some people are just like that.
When talking in terms of F2P vs P2P, initial purchase is ignored and is generally referring to monthly fees. If the intial purchase was taken into concideration, then a lot of F2P games would be considered P2P as well since they have cash items etc which it gets to a point where you almost have to buy them.
sorry, just my AU$0.02
OP wins. Amen
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Halo 2 is more polished.
Elder Scroll Oblivion
Diablo
Just about any other Single Player RPG is more polished. I never need patches for thoses as I do in GW
Halo 2 is more polished.
Elder Scroll Oblivion
Diablo
Just about any other Single Player RPG is more polished. I never need patches for thoses as I do in GW
no oblivion still have some WTF crashes.
and i belive he said in MMORPG category.
CHILL DAWG!
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.
Halo 2 is more polished.
Elder Scroll Oblivion
Diablo
Just about any other Single Player RPG is more polished. I never need patches for thoses as I do in GW
Wrong. Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion was full of bugs and problems. Hence the patches and numerous mods. GW is the most polished game of its genre.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
There is no doubt that Guild wars 2 is my most anticipated game....just slightly over diablo 3.
I dont really know anything about the Dev team for guild wars 2.....but if it is basically the same as the dev team for guild wars 1 I have all the confidence in the world that this game will be stable, beautiful and fun.
Other then blizzard i dont know any company that puts out such solid games as Arena net.
Currently Playing: Fallen Earth
Played and liked: TCOS, Vanguard, Guild Wars, DDO
Played and didn't like: CO, MO, STO, DF, AoC, WAR, WoW, EQ2, EVE, most f2p
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, Secret World
Firstly, your posts are coming across as rather aggressive. There's no need to get aggressive over a simple discussion. We are all intelligent adults (so I hope) capable of a discussion without it having to resort to flaming.
But anyway, moving on - considering I wrote the initial post, I feel I am qualified enough to say that you are still not understanding the points I were getting across. What you are complaining about has little to do with the OP.
I have stated it twice before, and I'll state it again for the third time - people are allowed to like/dislike games. That is their right. They are also allowed to like/dislike companies and developers as they wish too. However, and this is my first point - many of those comments are based on no fact whatsoever and as a result are unfair. My initial example - the poster who had a lot to say about instances being "fail" clearly has absolutely NO knowledge whatsoever regarding Guild Wars 2. They obviously didn't even bother to read through this site's overview of the game, which would have taken a simple minute or two. Yet somehow that person felt qualified to try to sound smart in delivering their opinion that is based on, well, nothing. It's not about people not having time to read "every bit of info spread out on over the net," it's about them reading anything at all.
My second point was that people are unfairly griefing on ArenaNet, not because they dislike them. If someone has a legitimate complaint about them, then by all means they should voice it. This, however, has not been the case and is what I was attempting to address with this thread. Fanboys and trolls alike cannot deny that Guild Wars had a smooth release. It was polished at launch and what the developers promised was delivered. If I didn't like Guild Wars I would still respect ArenaNet for that. That same policy applies to other companies, which is why I mentioned CCP. Eve Online may not be my favourite game, but I respect CCP for what they have done and are doing. That is my key point - the past few major MMO releases have been dreadful, but people feel ArenaNet deserve to be treated as they are being by some despite their excellent launch back in 2005. It is a case of small-mindedness.
The reason I created a thread in order to voice this is because you cannot respond to posts in the game's hype section. Replying to everyone seperately via PM would be a lot of unnecessary work.
And lastly, I find your last paragraph quite ironic considering you're the one who is getting aggressive in this topic due to people disagreeing with you.
First off, if you compare my posts to the posts stating people are idiots or morons, or cussing because I disagree I think you will find the difference in aggression level. Sorry you read posts of how your view of others is more bias then their posts and it bothers you and thus you find it aggressive.
You have a lot of love for ArenaNet and you enjoy their products, for that reason you fail to understand how others dislike ArenaNet. And therefore you feel anyone who dislikes ArenaNet is wrong. That isn't the case, as I stated it is purely opinion, both yours and theirs. I personally feel they are mediocre at best and don't deserve the amount of hype you throw their way, but I also acknowledge that as an opinion. That's the part you're not getting, no you haven't proven that everyone should love and respect ArenaNet, and it is still an opinion everyone is entitled to. So people will continue to hate them, just as you love them and nothing is wrong with that. They had a smooth release, so have tons of other basically single player but have multiplayer online option games. And people above me have even posted examples. It isn't some amazing feat that no one has done before.
For every person who says that GW2 will be bad using wrong information there are cases of players saying GW2 will be amazing because of wrong information or pure speculation. It balances out. And unfortunatly to make a big stand against people forming opinions without proper information, well I'm not sure where you live but sadly in the country I live in that is how the government is elected. The majority of votes are cast with wrong or a lack of information, it is just how the world works. But once again it works both ways, people say something sucks due to lack of information, others say the same thing is great with a lack of information.
So if MMORPG.COM is going to decide it's forums have to be all or nothing that is great. They can delete all positive and negative posts that either have no facts to back up the opinion, or wrong facts to back up the opinion.
Or we can accept this as a public open forum and that there will always be cases of both, along with cases of differing opinions, and of course there will be people who hate a company that you so love. But them hating the company is no less right then you loving it.
I liked the color coding though, next time I want some charts and a power point to go along with it for the extra touch.
Sigh.
My points so far:
1) People are ALLOWED TO HAVE THEIR OPINIONS
2) However, some are complaining WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE GAME WHATSOEVER
3) and others are hating on ArenaNet WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC REASON
Every single one of your posts has accused me of saying that people are not allowed to have their opinions, when I have stated that fact THREE times very clearly so that you would grasp it. Alas, I expected too much. NOWHERE in my original post did I say people are not allowed to complain.
What I did acknowledge was that: they ARE complaining, many of the complaints are utterly baseless and that considering ArenaNet have run Guild Wars very well - regardless of whether or not people like it - they deserve far more credit that many are giving them in comparison to other MMO companies I mentioned as examples. In other words - the people in question would do well to research a game before cutting their noses off to spite their faces. Where did I state "You, SnarlingWolf, may not have an opinion and if you do it is wrong?" That's right - nowhere.
You're harping on about one vague thing after another that has added absolutely nothing to the thread and has instead resulted in numerous people trying to get the message across to you. Unfortunately it seems like a lost cause. In one final effort to try to get you to fathom the obvious intention behind the thread, I leave you with this: its existence is to acknowledge the issues and encourage people to give the game and ArenaNet a chance, not to simply blindly hate on it.
If the concept still escapes you then that is sad. I'm glad you're the only one who has struggled to grasp it so far.