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EQ2 Opinion from a 30 berserker
rabidgoose
Member Posts: 5
My history: I've played EQ and DAoC. I am a seasoned veteran in console gaming, but I've seen little in the MMO world, though I read a very extensive amount about all games (boring job let's me surf the net). Anyway, after a month and a half of EQ2 I have a mixed view about the overal quality of the game. This is just my opinion, so if you happen to disagree don't get your panties in a bind. This is an opinion.
First the good:
Graphics -
Highly bananas. This is the ultimate fluff for dropping some jaws and I'm still amazed at the beautiful landscape of the game. I'm fortunate to have a good computer to run on higher than average settings, allowing me to really feel the detail put into the game. Absolutely love it.
Quests -
The put the quest back into Everquest. Tons of quests to chose from at all levels and the variety is pretty impressive. Some do get to be repetitive, but quests are still an option, which is nice if you decide to do something else. I personally love the quest system.
UI -
I think the UI is done very nicely. It's very easy to get a hold of after a few minutes goofing around on the Isle of Refuge. The customization abilities are great too.
Class balance -
I love that there is no more holy trinity. At least I haven't noticed it so far. The effectiveness of each class is prominent enough to have anyone fill the desired role of the group. The diversity and flavor ecah subclass provides is very nice. As a berserker I can say I am completely different as a guardian, but just as effective as a tank if need be.
Now the bad:
Gameplay/Immersion -
I'm going to take a bit to talk about this. I think the restricted "railed" game path is detrimental to the game. I think any MMO that has such restrictions such as EQ2 doesn't grasp what MMORPG stands for. I see an MMORPG as an artificial world, with rules that are present in our current world; such as gravity, night and day, life and death, and then the fantasy element to give us that escape to venture into parts unknown yatta yatta, you get the drift. I think certain elements added to the game such as mob locking and no PVP and NPCs bound to each other completely destroy any "real" substance of the game.
Before we go on, I know it's a game and made up, but the "real" i'm talking about is boundwithin a fantasy setting. Within that setting there are expectations of rationale and the rationale applied to a mob not being able to be hit by other entities after engaging a particular one is ludacrous. A more experienced person not being able to cast a spell on a less experienced one is also not right. When you total up these bits of restrictions that seem to force us into particular playstyles you find yourself with a game that is not a role playing game. You have no freedoms to do as you wish.
Sony used to use the phrase "you're in our world now" and they were damn right about that. I was in their world. I was so immersed in that life-life world, and I loved that part about it. EQ2 doesn't provide that for me. Now I know they are different games, and rightfully so, but some of the differentiation has done nothing but push me further from getting into this new world.
PVP seems to be a hot topic of debate. The two sides are very strong either for it or against it. The opposers dislike ganking and prefer an unrealistic setting where they can interact with other people in the most artificial way. PVP supporters want full immersion in their game and want to treat other players as any other living entity in-game. I support PVP fully. I appose ganking, but that is life. In the real world I oppose murder, but we see it daily on the news in our lives. God isn't going to impose some rule that prevents humans from injuring one another. That makes no sense. Yes that was an extreme comparison, but what I'm getting at is, PVP is role playing. If you don't want PVP, try final fantasy 1 through 10 or some other game that doesn't involve other persons included in the game environment. My belief is if it's a viable entity in game it should be killable, PC, NPC or whatever.
Exploiting the rational world I'm asking for? Of course it will happen. Where in this world we live in now is there no exploitation to some degree. I'm strongly against bots, macroing, ebaying characters and in-game items, hacks, dupes, third party programs, and any other exploit of the system, but I'd sacrifice that vulnerability for the chance to play in a realistic world. That's the one deciding factor. Would you subject your world to such exploiting for the chance to be free? I say yes.
Bottom line -
This game has the potential to be the greatest of all time. The lore, the platform, the graphics engine, the questing system, the class diversity. It's all there. We just need the correct environment for this game to take off from. We need a world for it to be implemented that mimics realism as much as possible. Origonally EQ2 was goign to be heavily PVP orientated in a Qeynos V. Freeport style setup. That would have been amazying to see the immersion factor on a whole new level. I think one solution to my gripes would be to create a variety of servers availabel to play. Have the restricted servers stay up unaltered, but create some new servers for the real role players with PVP, no constrictions no mob locking, no trival loot code, none of the things that make this game unimmersive.
Again, this is just my opinion.
Comments
A couple comments. I do thoroughly enjoy the game and will keep playing - and in any event it's clearly the best option for my tastes at the moment - but I agree with you on a couple points.
At first mob-locking seemed like a decent idea, but after a while I concluded it's not. It's just too phony. I'd much rather have the KSing, training, OOC brawls, etc., back ... for the sake of realism and immersion. I miss the chaos and turmoil
Heck I even miss the screaming arguments and threats of utterly futile petitioning, lol.
I *really* dislike that I cannot heal, buff, or res people without them being grouped. (I understand that at least some of this is going to be changed) And I dislike that most of my buffs last 12 hours and just automatically apply to people joining the group. WHat sense does this make. Too too easy.
NPCs bound to each other seems fine to me. But I would remove the signs, and I would remove the lengthy con messages ... it cons blue, it cons yellow ... that's all you need to know. Let's have to find out ourselves where you can pull singles and where not. People are making games too damned easy anymore. EQ1 always had mobs that would come singly and those that would come in groups, and it worked like a charm. Say, ECom in EQ1, you learned which Orcs would come singly - generally the roamers, and which would stick together - generally the ones standing together. That does seem realistic to me.
PvP I could care less. EQ1 worked like gangbusters for years without it, except, of course, for the almost irrelevant and forgotten PvP servers. There's a long good thread on PvP in the general forum. In any event, I fully believe they will put PvP in the game.
As far as the "path" of MMORPGs, etc., just look at what the majority of posters say in these forums. They seek to avoid anything resembling difficulty. They prefer the illusion of challenge rather than challenge. The prefer games which provide easy fast advancement. No matter how easy things get, they want them easier. Ergo, game devs comply. It's a dame shame for the genre.
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I've done hundreds and hundreds of raids ... well though elementals before I just got burnt out.
Sure 12 hours buffs are easier ... that's just my point. Things are getting WAY TOO easy. And it's just not realistic at all, no immersion. They SHOULD take more power/mana. This is just becoming child's play ... which, I guess, is no accident
Stop making things easier already. Make them tougher. Put the pain back
Let's get rid of all the lazy whiners and get back to some good hardcore gaming.
I'm not sure increasing pow cost and lowering duration of buffs would make the game harder. It would just increase unecesary down time which is boring. As far as realism goes; we're talking about magic spells here.
I do agree that things are a bit easy, though. Thats assuming everyone in your group knows what they are doing. I think we all have a few painfull stories that shows this isn't the case. But, yes, in a good group there is little challenge.
JE
While I do agree, that I like the game to be challenging (which is why most of us play EQ2 and not WoW or CoH) we are obviously in the minority. I mean look at the number of people playing the simple no brainer MMO's like CoH and WoW. Most gamers today want a spoon feeding. I mean how many times in EQ2 have you heard in OOC chat: Hey were do you find Hawr? I mean just yesterday someone asked where to find beetles for crying out loud. Walk out the friggin' gate take 10 steps forward and they'll aggro all over you.
It took me 3 days to find that stupid Dwarf in the Ardent Needle...sorry went into rant mode there.
First I like the way the buffs are done in EQ2. How many enchanters sat around all day in EQ1 raking in a fortune casting C3 just so people could have LESS downtime. Downtime is a killer. I don't see how that is easier, just a whole lot smoother.
Second, PVP will never be introduced as a major thing in EQ2. They have stated it over and over and made it very clear. Personally I would love good versus evil zones. Even if they only made 1 or 2 zones and left the rest of the world just the way it is, it would be awesome.
Third, the only thing I really don't like about the game is the mob selections. This is supposed to be a fantasy game. How man freakin rats, deer, wolves, bear and stupid birds can they make of different level. Deer, rabid deer, fierce rabid deer, really fierce rabid deer that agro. Put some fantasy monsters like the old dungeons and dragons games in. They have some but my god, i was reading a quest that said "then you have to kill these rats that con red to level 30." Level 35 rats??? gimme a break.
Fourth, I do hope they adjust the way you can or cannot cast spells on those that are not grouped. Having the ability to only cast spells on those that are grouped with you is a bit unrealistic. They don't want to create the PLing they had in EQ1 and I understand that. Just make it so that you can't cast spells on other players a certain number of levels different than yours. Make it 5 levels or so and you eliminate most of the PLing problem and still have people being able to contribute to a lot more than just their little group. This especially needs to be fixed with Rez.
Finally, even though I would change a few things, I still love the game. I am enjoying it totally. I CAN get on for an hour and get things accomplished with crafting or quick solo jaunts. I hope that they keep up the good work and impliment little adjustments here and there, but keep the spirit of the game as a whole.
Actus, Badge and others on Innothule
Allthough I agree that there are a lot of immersion killing in EQ2, they are none that the original poster said.
What kills it is flying fish, ( I hate this so much I want to vomit, REMOVE them allready ).
Impassable invisible walls that are so obviously put there so you HAVE to walk the way they intended and meet mobs that block your way, I grind my teeth every time I encounter one.
And like Law said, getting to enchanted lands to kill Bambi AGAIN is very very far from epic, it is ok to be killed by a rat when you are lvl 5 or even 10, but at 30+ there should be NO badger/deer/rat/butterfly or whatever that I can not kill a thousand at the time should I wish.
No PvP and encounter locking can sure take away from immersion as well but you not constantly reminded of it. In fact this bugs me maybe once or twice per play session, wereas the above things bugs me a hundred times each session.
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rumpeldilskiminskitjolahopp
(this is for SEARCH purposes only, until we get a better way, or any way, to keep track of our posts)
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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The whole Quest thing is what the game is about.EVER(Forever)QUEST(Many Quests)EverQust is about Quests,PvP could be in there,but if there is a level 30 warrior and a level 1 Warrior or whatever,and the level 30 just keeps killing that only person or other low levels,then how is the low level gonna get to a higher level.I have Played PvP games and had the un infortionate event of a higher level(alot higher) kept killing me everytime i had spawned or he seen me someplace else.My char. only got to level 5,and i got sick and tired of the higher level killing the very low level char.,i couldt level high,kill mobs,explore,loot,whatever.nothing.I deleted my char.,and found a different room to play in where there r jobs,quests,go kill this person,loot this,get this N that,etc.I now have a level 40 barbarian,and it is fun.
I have played EQ1 for over a year and had lots of fun,and leveled well for the amount of time I was on.I like doing Quests,cause that is the name of the Game.PvP would be cool,but not a high level versus the low level.it should be restricted to certain level,and must have both parties agree to it.
I love the original post and agree with it wholey. I just wanted to answer some of these PVP complaints that just came up in the last posts. If you can't take it don't join a PVP server. END OF STORY. It's not like PVP will be forced upon you. Just like in EQ1 there were several several non-pvp servers as compared to only 4 or 5 pvp servers. Simply don't join one. But for us who enjoy PVP it would help with the immersion and realism to have the choice to attack that evil necro or that holy paladin. Also it was mentioned that a lvl30 attack a lvl1 which is pretty much ridiculous. Yes it happens but all you have to do is OOC for help. Hey evil so and so is attacking our city!!! Any high lvlers come help kill him!!! Or if you have a guild just ask a high lvl guild member and I'm sure they would love to help out. I think one of my fav. moments were when I was around 45 and some lvl65 would come attack the city and like 20 of us would try to jump him =P. Not to mention its not like you lose EXP when you die from someone over 5 lvls than u (EQ1). I mean if it were like Lineage 2 where a lvl50 could kill a lvl1 and he'd lose exp. that would be extreme. So basically I'm saying if you don't like PVP you have NOTHING to complain about!!! Just do not join a PVP server. SIMPLE.
Avoiding power-leveling, THEY SAY, was only a side-effect to easing encounter design for the developers. Locked-encounters make it easier to know the variables to make the game challenging... GroupX2 is designed for up to 12 people and no more. That way they don't have to make the mob quad hit for 1000 damage to compensate for the possible zerging that players may bring to the table. They can easily test it in-house with a test group of 12 and gauge the difficulty and tune it for the reward.
But I've always maintained that mob-locking and fixed encounters is a contrived way to go about that. I don't like it one bit. It's not the only mean to an end...
I think that the devs can accomplish the same variable control through less contrived ways, like having a mob call for help or run when attacked by too many people or people of too high a level. Sure, it's a bit more dev time for the developers, but the focus becomes "fun" instead of "controlled". If you attack Grimfeather with 4 groups in a raid (when it's designed for GroupX2, I think) then it calls down all the nearby griffons in the zone, which rush to its aid to balance the encounter. If you attack Grimfeather when it is grey, instead of allowing itself to die but magically have no loot, it does what any player would do if attacked by a deep red--it FLEES!
Managing buffs outside of group is easy too. Make it level-restricted, like someone else said here.... A low level can buff anyone higher than himself with no restriction, but can only buff so many levels below himself.
But, not only that, make buffs outside of group time-limited to 15 minutes or something, when those same buffs cast within the group last much longer or take less power to cast. This is a not-so-contrived way to have dev control while still being fun. You are "intune" with your group mates, so it costs less power to augment them...
Mobs linked together I don't mind at all. I was used to it in other games and I think it actually adds to the challenge of some areas. Showing exactly what mobs are linked together may not be so necessary, but that's something you might be able to tell...
So you are burnt on the raiding aspect of the game. I am assuming all it's pitfalls as well like taking 15-30 minutes to do just buffs. Devs try to fix some of those pitfalls and you find it easy now?
When people stop comparing this game to EQ or WoW and enjoy it for what it is, it will be better.
You will never ever bring back those fond memories of EQ or any other game in the past. Each game, if good enough will have those memories for you. I have fond memories of EQ, UO, DAoC, CoH etc. but I don't try to recreate those memories in new games I play.
What truly makes a game worthwhile and addicting (besides the game being great) is the people you play with it.
You're assuming a bit much there. What burnt me out was when the game had gotten to the point where there was nothing left to do but raid all the time or chase AAs. I like raids, but as part of the overall picture - not the entire picture. Plus, to be honest, maybe I just got tired of looking at the game after so many years, also my friends were disappearing left and right, and the work of running a large guild with people going in and out like a revolving door was getting to me.
I totally like EQ2, and I fully plan to keep playing - whatever it's imperfections, I don't see anything close at the moment. But I do have some criticisms, one being that they dumbed it down too much IMO. E.g., there is quite a gap between the buff situation in earlier EQ1 and what we have in EQ2, which is basically you rarely have to cast a buff. They just went too far - they skipped a LOT of middle ground there.
OTOH, from reading the constant whines around this forum over anything that even looks like it might be difficult or take any time, I can see why game devs do this.
But it's tough to not compare games. Everyone does it. You look around the net right now and there are an enormous number of gamers wanting to duplicate the overall experience they had in EQ1. For a variety of reasons it probably can't be done, but you sure can't blame people for wanting it.
When I started playing EQ1, my first ideas were: Why is it so HARD? I need some money, I want this, I want that, this mob killed me 10 times, I lost experience ten times today, I lost that, I lost this, I don't know where to go to finish the quest, I do't know who I should speak to ge the quest, there are quests, there are not any quests...
).
I was shouting im front of my computer, coursing, I hated Sony, I really did. First few months I was thinking to quit the game but I couldn't, some unknown force was driving me to play t tomorrow, next day I said I'll give it a try, next day the same and so on and so on. Suddenly I switched off my computer going to bed, saying to myself: I'm proud of, you made level 20!!! I realized the potential the game had, I realized that when something looks like You would never do it, and one day you do, the feeling is great.
I found a guild of adventurers and we were raiding and rading and dying and dying and loosing XP, loosing XP, gaining it back and loosing it again. ( I will never forget my first day in EQ1, when 6 people were sitting in Crushbone, thinking how can we kill that orc level 14 inside and one Dwarf came in shouting I found a quest, one guy wants belts from those orcs, I think 12 of them, lets do it guys and bring him them. LoL, we were carrying those belts in hundreds to the guy.) I remember when Kunark went out we went to explore Overthere and the first think what happened was that we all died on the road because Dragoon was passing there also. I remember the day when SoL went out and we all went to explore the bazaar and tried to sell there, saying that bazaar is the greatest thing which gaming universe saw ( with all that crazy lagging). I remember the day when I hit level 50 and said to myself: You are immortal now, dying in 5 minutes afterwards. This is all gone...
EQ1 will remain in our memories as the best game ever made but we have tio change our thinking (those people who want to play EQ2 of course). EQ2 is a different game. It's much easier to play, it leads you through the quests, saying go there and kill that, it gives you minimal choice in character, armor, weapon differentiation, I agree. I does not have PvP, I agree. But it does have potential, and the greatest potential I've ever seen in MMOs. EQ1 was a chiotic game (sorry to say), EQ2 is a very organized game, not giving you the feeling of EQ1, because it is not. Classes are balanced up to the last detail, you see the wizard with the same amount of health as the guardian but the wizard will fall down easily because he is a master of ranged fight. The same will happen with the guardian, he will die if the wizard will root him and nuke, But oth of them are equal, they just work in a different manner. The system of spells/abilities is the best I've ever seen. You get Apprentice 1 which is just better than nothing, as time goes you either loot a better version or you ask someone to make it for or you just go and buy it (here we come to disadvantage, which I really don't like in EQ2, that's selling, you have to be on in merchant mode. Why? Do something with it SOE, don't let us run our computers during the nights just for selling, some of our machines are noisy
Crafting is also like and adventure in this game, you skill is not everything, you have to be lucky or unlucky to make the best or the worst item. (as in the real life, Schumacher usually wins but can have an accident and loose some race as well). The amounts of things you can craft is unbelievable and amazing.
EQ2 is not a hard game, it's just funny. With its stryline, balance and amount of quests it will win the crown for the best MMO ever made. It's quite easy but you still feel some competition, I don't stand up after my gaming session with a feeling of boredom, I stand up saying, THAT WAS FUN!!!
I play on RP server, so have to admit that society is great, helpful and if you find a good guild, you will enjoy every minute in the game you spend.
I think the fact the OP is lvl 30 and the fact that even little old me is lvl 24 does mean EQ2 is actually a bit easier than I thought. Not saying it isn't difficult, just not the hell-for-leather ride I was expecting.
Practically everyone thing you do yields xp, even just exploring gives a % of XP. That's a good thing and encourages people to explore and be more adventurous adventurer.
Im not in an uber guild or spend 100 hrs a week playing but feel when I log in I make progress.
There are good locations too, some areas feel enclosed and you do feel that you are in a dungeon, Stormhold is a good example.
I think that EQ2 is fairly articial in the sense that you can see a group fighting a mob and each mob has a padlock sign stating that it is a locked encounter.
For me community makes or breaks a MMORPG as much as whether you are being entertained. Doing Armor Quests is a real headbanger, few people seem to want to download a map of the area they are in or take a few moments to explore, yes I have even had a few people in OOC ask where gnolls in Antonica are!
Happy New Year!
You got that right.
That was a great post Wardoo ... really took me back to the old days, particularly the first couple paragraphs. My experience in EQ was precisely that, word for word. Enjoyed your post also, Hashman. And I mostly agree with you guys.
I definitely plan to continue with EQ2 - hell I love the game and the guild is slowly trickling over. I just wish they had kept a few things a bit tougher, but I'll get over it
I think they found a good balance between complexity and allowing casual players to still progress without huge time investments. You can get a good way through before the grind really hits, and I haven't thought of it as a grind really yet much at all, there are so many quests to do.
A little more direction after the AQs would be about the only addition I could come up with. The mid 20s could use more than just some access quests. Then again I've explored TS only very little, and I probably could spend a few levels finishing up the quests in there.
I love how the "difficulty" factor always ends up in being a PvP complaint. They are going to add PvP, so all you have to do is wait. It's not like they made it a secret that it wasn't in yet at release, so I don't see how any PvPers can really complain. You could have waited till it was added to buy the game.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
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