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All hell breaks lose on the Official forums!

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Comments

  • ProfRedProfRed Member UncommonPosts: 3,495

    No worries, no worries.  Respecs will be sold in the cash shop before long people.  Only 5.99$ a pop!  We promise not to nerf, buff, or break balance more than once every few months so it's a steal.

    - Roper

  • ShastraShastra Member Posts: 1,061


    Originally posted by ProfRed
    No worries, no worries.  Respecs will be sold in the cash shop before long people.  Only 5.99$ a pop!  We promise not to nerf, buff, or break balance more than once every few months so it's a steal.
    - Roper

    Reading is not your strong point i guess. I hate it when people ignore all reasonable discussion and go straight to posting nonsense.

  • indiramournindiramourn Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by dhayes68


    If these kind of things bother you, never pre-order and only play mmo's that are at least 6 months old AND have a free trial.



     

    Bingo!  Thread is finished now.

  • HorkathaneHorkathane Member Posts: 380

     LOL no big worries, people are calming down the nerf was against certain Offensive builds that were out of balance so strike down the fotm.

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888

    I haven't played the new patch so I'm not sure what all the changes are. But PFF and Regen were both well known to be overpowered.  I personally think the healing drones were pretty overpowered as well.  With my character fighting a legendary my level I could put up my block and with my healing drones I'd heal up in spite of his damage.  The only risk was getting held and AEed where the bots got killed and I maybe was low going into a hold.  The issue here is the bots focus more on healing themselves then healing me :P so any mob that did AE attacks effectively took my healing away.  But that doesn't apply to PFF and Regen.  In beta I had a character with regen and with his shield up he would heal quite quickly even better then the healing drones.

    So I think the change was necessary.  They should however have allowed people to respec.  I know that I'd probably not want my drones if they aren't gonna be able to heal as much.  Probably it would be better to go with some hold type power or something to enhance my damage instead.  Or maybe a targeted heal....

    ---
    Ethion

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462
    Originally posted by Shastra


     

    Originally posted by afoaa

     Yes Antiproton is basically saying: "We did not intend this game to be superheroic, we did make it superheroic by mistake and now we are fixing it so its NOT superheroic".

    I cannot recomend this game for my friends after the patch. :(

     

    There is difference between being Superhero and God mode. Game was way too easy and now atleast you have some challenge in gameplay. For a change people will start paying more attention to grouping instead of running into 10 mobs all alone. They are trying to encourage team work and there is nothing wrong about it.

    People QQ: "People never have to group except for Lairs! This game isn't an MMO!"

    Cryptic makes soloing harder and grouping more viable.

    People QQ: "Cryptic nerfed us all! I'm not a god anymore! Screw this game!"

    What else is new?

    image

  • DarkholmeDarkholme Member UncommonPosts: 1,212
    Originally posted by Darth_Osor


    Just curious...did anyone point out this problem during beta?  I would think people who want the game to succeed would have.  I have no intention of trying this game, but needing a nerf like this on launch day is just another nail in the coffin of STO to me.

    Yes we did, but there were two schools of thought, that we are actually seeing examples of in this very thread. One was that it was way too easy to level, and should be more challenging (pro-nerf), and the other was that you are supposed to feel heroic and be able to smash numerous bad guys at once (anti-nerf). The thing is, they should have approached the issue differently. Instead of nerfing the players powers, they should have buffed the PvE (NPCs power and/or numbers). I am/was of the school of thought that they needed to make the game a bit more group friendly, and make the leveling a bit slower. However, I know exactly how OP the powers they are talking about are, I used them in beta. So I will say that the defensive powers might have needed a small nerf... Once I got the first passive defense/regen power and the shield power (with energy regen to boot), I never feared dying from NPCs ever, and never had the need to group up.

    -------------------------
    "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

    Member Since March 2004

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Originally posted by Darkholme

    Originally posted by Darth_Osor


    Just curious...did anyone point out this problem during beta?  I would think people who want the game to succeed would have.  I have no intention of trying this game, but needing a nerf like this on launch day is just another nail in the coffin of STO to me.

    Yes we did, but there were two schools of thought, that we are actually seeing examples of in this very thread. One was that it was way too easy to level, and should be more challenging (pro-nerf), and the other was that you are supposed to feel heroic and be able to smash numerous bad guys at once (anti-nerf). The thing is, they should have approached the issue differently. Instead of nerfing the players powers, they should have buffed the PvE (NPCs power and/or numbers). I am/was of the school of thought that they needed to make the game a bit more group friendly, and make the leveling a bit slower. However, I know exactly how OP the powers they are talking about are, I used them in beta. So I will say that the defensive powers might have needed a small nerf... Once I got the first passive defense/regen power and the shield power (with energy regen to boot), I never feared dying from NPCs ever, and never had the need to group up.

     

    Again as I said, this was caused because they started balancing 1 week before launch,   they nerfed powers, upped the difficulty of mobs,  changed some powers altogether, lowered mob difficulty, upped difficulty of bosses, changed travel powers, changed cool downs, added cool downs, all this in a matter of time from 1 week before CB to now.. thats a relatively short amount of time, and they did that all in the name of trying to balance.  They've been balancing in the public eye which is a no-no,  thats why you hear crying... when a game launches a lot of people expect the gameplay to be the way it is ( unless its an SOE game)  

     

    Thats not the case here,   theres no testing from players anymore, its do or die time, and they're making the hard choices because they didn't make them in CB.  We tried to give them as much information as we could on how to balance some powers and what needed balance... but now it looks to be a trial and error game. 



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059

    Its true, in some comics you had heroes like Superman, who was impervious so they had to "nerf" him with Kryponite or you wouldn't have much of a story.   He later became vulnerable to all sorts of things such as magic, light from other suns, and of course, feminine wiles

    Without a challenge, you can't really be a superhero, its just not good for the long term entertainmment value.

    I enjoyed the final battle on Alcatraz island when the mutants attacked the "humans' held their own and did a ton of damage against them until the 'heavies' decided to step into the battle.

    That's how CO should be too, god-mode against the scrubs but there should always be heavies than cast the outcome in doubt.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    This reminds me of City of Heroes fire/fire tankers. 

  • ayanelayanel Member Posts: 150

    People are way overreacting is all.  Post patch I've done 6 solo missions, been in two groups, tried out PvP and as far as I can tell the patch has made the game better in almost every way.  I guess if you like being able to plow through everything  including cosmic 20 man villains solo then it is a bad patch.  But my character an still take on a Master Villain, a Villain, and a Henchman of her level at the same time and win; the only difference is now I see my health bar go down and have to think about how to win the fight.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Gotta love patches on launch day.

    30
  • worst launch day patch ever...early access was really good fun, felt pretty well balanced - I felt like a superhero but could easily die if I over stretched and bosses kicked my ass unless a friend joined as it should be today.

    Today - passive defense nerfed into being almost meaningless (or at least it feels that way combined with them upping mob damage) and generally the gameplay is now a test of patience and extremely frustrating and annoying.

    Maybe we will settle into it, but to me this was an awful decision, let alone without allowing complete respecs. You cant change your game after a few days and then not allow users to adjust.

    Feels to me like they knee-jerked to some hard-core whiners that maxed out quickly (there will always be those people but you just dont balance for them and ruin it for the vast, vast majority of your players.

    The game lacks polish across the board but the fun factor cancelled out the negative lack of polish for me, broken quests, broken publics, bugged mobs and such was at least negated by the gameplay being fun and the powers seemingly meaningful...now it feels like a 'I can only pull one mob, maybe two a time' thing again, and quite frankly I have better polished options for that.

    So this is a new achievement, Champions Online has managed to be both the most fun I have had in an MMO in ages, and now the least, all within the course of a few days!

     

  • Originally posted by ayanel


    People are way overreacting is all.  Post patch I've done 6 solo missions, been in two groups, tried out PvP and as far as I can tell the patch has made the game better in almost every way.  I guess if you like being able to plow through everything  including cosmic 20 man villains solo then it is a bad patch.  But my character an still take on a Master Villain, a Villain, and a Henchman of her level at the same time and win; the only difference is now I see my health bar go down and have to think about how to win the fight.

     

    What build do you have, because that is not my experience. If I get two non-henchmen I am toast now, have to hit teleport and blip out straightaway...havent managed to get above one star in two hours play today, another random add or two non-henchman is just too unpredictable now. If there is a passive that hasnt been nerfed majorly I would love to know about because my PFF is not really providing much protection now :p

  • natuxatunatuxatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    Epic fail! Sorry but you should not release such a patch on LAUNCH day.. I mean seriously, what were they thinking. They are going to have enough issues as it is. This should have been done before the headstart... otherwise what was the point of the beta.

    image

  • ayanelayanel Member Posts: 150
    Originally posted by CyanSword

    Originally posted by ayanel


    People are way overreacting is all.  Post patch I've done 6 solo missions, been in two groups, tried out PvP and as far as I can tell the patch has made the game better in almost every way.  I guess if you like being able to plow through everything  including cosmic 20 man villains solo then it is a bad patch.  But my character an still take on a Master Villain, a Villain, and a Henchman of her level at the same time and win; the only difference is now I see my health bar go down and have to think about how to win the fight.

     

    What build do you have, because that is not my experience. If I get two non-henchmen I am toast now, have to hit teleport and blip out straightaway...havent managed to get above one star in two hours play today, another random add or two non-henchman is just too unpredictable now. If there is a passive that hasnt been nerfed majorly I would love to know about because my PFF is not really providing much protection now :p

     

    I use PFF too, here is a longer post (with my build) I made on the Co forms.

     

    My 'main" is lv 18, powers are Force Bolts, Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2 + Close the Gap), Force Eruption, Condemn, Breakaway Shot, PFF (Rank 2), Field Surge, Acrobatics. My super stats are End and Ego.

    Previous to today I had died maybe 3 times total in PvE, and was able to solo Fight Club at lv 15 without dieing.

    Today I have done:

    1) Some street sweeping in MC (died once to 2 Master Villains and 2 Villains--Purple Gang)

    2) Fight Club with a full group (no deaths--lots of fun)

    3) Mission to defeat Poe with a group of three (no deaths--very easy)

    4) Purple Reign solo (recommended for 2, one death to Tachyon, had to run twice, got him on the fourth try)

    5) 3 outdoor missions in MC rated for levels 18-19 (no deaths).

    6) One PvP match, to see what it is like.

    So after some testing I am liking this patch a lot. Yes I noticed a big decrease in my survivability but it now seems about right.

    PvE: I have to pay attention when fighting Master Villains or 2 Villains of my level but I still consistently win. Henchmen are still easy but not totally ignorable in numbers or combined with harder foes. The one Super Villain I fought was very tough but beatable; much more satisfying then before when I walked all over them.

    PvP: The match went much quicker then before. It was possible to kill people with focused fire even while they blocked but I was not dieing so fast that I felt insta-gibbed.

     

  • n00bitn00bit Member UncommonPosts: 345

    The problem is that they based their decisions on reports from the lower levels. Yes, a few abilities were powerful below 20, but as you level through your 20s, many of them stop making a huge difference. Even with level 3 regen, maxed block, and high crit chance, mobs were kicking my ass on monster island. Not to mention that once you get into your late 20s-early 30s, even the henchmen have charge-up abilities that force you to block. The ability to take on large packs of mobs is diminished a ton because missing even one block from a henchmen's charge can mean that you're held for 10 seconds and beaten to death. I can't imagine how it is now...I'm afraid to touch my main and have just been messing around on my late teens char.

  • Originally posted by ayanel

    Originally posted by CyanSword

    Originally posted by ayanel


    People are way overreacting is all.  Post patch I've done 6 solo missions, been in two groups, tried out PvP and as far as I can tell the patch has made the game better in almost every way.  I guess if you like being able to plow through everything  including cosmic 20 man villains solo then it is a bad patch.  But my character an still take on a Master Villain, a Villain, and a Henchman of her level at the same time and win; the only difference is now I see my health bar go down and have to think about how to win the fight.

     

    What build do you have, because that is not my experience. If I get two non-henchmen I am toast now, have to hit teleport and blip out straightaway...havent managed to get above one star in two hours play today, another random add or two non-henchman is just too unpredictable now. If there is a passive that hasnt been nerfed majorly I would love to know about because my PFF is not really providing much protection now :p

     

    I use PFF too, here is a longer post (with my build) I made on the Co forms.

     

    My 'main" is lv 18, powers are Force Bolts, Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2 + Close the Gap), Force Eruption, Condemn, Breakaway Shot, PFF (Rank 2), Field Surge, Acrobatics. My super stats are End and Ego.

    Previous to today I had died maybe 3 times total in PvE, and was able to solo Fight Club at lv 15 without dieing.

    Today I have done:

    1) Some street sweeping in MC (died once to 2 Master Villains and 2 Villains--Purple Gang)

    2) Fight Club with a full group (no deaths--lots of fun)

    3) Mission to defeat Poe with a group of three (no deaths--very easy)

    4) Purple Reign solo (recommended for 2, one death to Tachyon, had to run twice, got him on the fourth try)

    5) 3 outdoor missions in MC rated for levels 18-19 (no deaths).

    6) One PvP match, to see what it is like.

    So after some testing I am liking this patch a lot. Yes I noticed a big decrease in my survivability but it now seems about right.

    PvE: I have to pay attention when fighting Master Villains or 2 Villains of my level but I still consistently win. Henchmen are still easy but not totally ignorable in numbers or combined with harder foes. The one Super Villain I fought was very tough but beatable; much more satisfying then before when I walked all over them.

    PvP: The match went much quicker then before. It was possible to kill people with focused fire even while they blocked but I was not dieing so fast that I felt insta-gibbed.

     

     

    Almost all that stuff is lower level than you though if you are 18. I am actually 18 as well and have a close set up to yours (use Ego Blast and energy blades, but otherwise close) and when trying the robot cowboys in the desert (18-20) the experience was far, far different.

    Maybe the difference is accepting we have to fight below our level now and not equal to it as we could before.

    ...time to grind some grey crap in MC I guess than before trying the cowboys again

  • ayanelayanel Member Posts: 150
    Originally posted by CyanSword


    Almost all that stuff is lower level than you though if you are 18. I am actually 18 as well and have a close set up to yours (use Ego Blast and energy blades, but otherwise close) and when trying the robot cowboys in the desert (18-20) the experience was far, far different.
    Maybe the difference is accepting we have to fight below our level now and not equal to it as we could before.
    ...time to grind some grey crap in MC I guess than before trying the cowboys again

     

    Everything I did today was set for levels 17-20 with the exception of fight club (which was just a test).

    The level 20 mission I did was a Bank Robbing I happened to come across--very cool--where I dies three times towards the start as I learned how to fight backs of villains and henchmen 20 levels above me.  After that it was very challenging and several fights were close but I took out everyone there including 6 henchmen at a time, and mixed groups of henchmen + villain and a lv 20 master villain + a henchman.

     

    I have not tried the robot cowboys but I will next time I log in too see if they are much harder then the stuff I've seen.

  • Benaiah21Benaiah21 Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by Shastra


    I am copy pasting one of the official response for nerfs..
    Originally Posted by Antiproton


    The changes were PVE driven, there were issues with Passive Defenses being massively overpowered in PVE from where we wanted them to be. Basically folks were aoe farming mass piles of critters with no danger of ever dying, basically people were able to handle more than 2x the intended sized encounters, which obviously breaks the game because instead of things being challenging and fun fights people could just plow through everything without having to look at their life, consider tactics, escape from time to time, etc.



     

    Personal opinion here and one from not having played any CO as of yet.  But issues like this need to be taken care of before launch.   Patches at launch are typical, so no big deal.  But "massively overpowered in PVE" says they weren't ready to launch.  There should only be minor tweaks and be mostly balanced at launch.

    I was thinking about picking this up today, but at this point, I'm thinking I'll wait a few weeks, because it definitely feels from the tone of the posts, that this game needs some  more work.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,481

    Doesn't sound like they learned their lesson from their CoH experiance.  Though I can't say I am surprised.   I too am going to wait til things shake out, and  a free trial is available.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • xxlilDevilxxxxlilDevilxx Member UncommonPosts: 245

    This is like the time AoC was launch.....lol fun times

    image
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  • TheStarheartTheStarheart Member Posts: 368

    I'm sorry but the only thing running through my mind after reading the topic is:

    All hell breaks WIN on the Official forums!

  • neoterrarneoterrar Member Posts: 512

    Dunno, the ability to take on 3-5 mobs at a time is what made the game actually fun for me.

    I had a sorc spec with regen and the pbaoe. This of course was in beta. I had a blast with that spec.

    Some of my other builds didnt work out quite so well.

  • SonikFlashSonikFlash Member UncommonPosts: 561
    Originally posted by TheStarheart


    I'm sorry but the only thing running through my mind after reading the topic is:
    All hell breaks WIN on the Official forums!

     

    QFT


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