I've been digging through reviews and videos and forums for information on this game for the past week, and eventually I decided to give Aion a try. I went ahead and forked overy my $50 to see how it goes the first month, because I'm wiling to give most decent looking MMOs a try. Well, I sat and read this entire thread. Finally I decided to make an account on mmorpg.com so I could lend another voice to the discussion. Post #1. I want to say right off, I've played a lot of MMOs in the past years, from Everquest1&2 to SWG to AO to COH and many others, and in all the MMOs I've played, I have taken part in the pve and pvp sides of the games when both were available to me. I like pvp, I like FPSs, and I like pve+pvp content in MMOs.
One of my worst experiences with ganker kids came from the 3 weeks I played Lineage 2. I bought the game, thought it was beautiful, set to work on some quests, and found myself being raped by higher level characters almost immediately. I stuck it out for 3 weeks, then cancelled my account. My feelings were that if a game company is willing to sanction that sort of play, they didn't deserve my money. I don't pay for an MMO so I have to work around griefers, or avoid content that I could be experiencing and enjoying if it weren't opening me up to griefers.
I have to stress again, I can enjoy PVP. Old days SWG had some of the best PVP I have ever played. I remember great battles where everyone went home with destroyed armor and black/wounded HAM bars and it was all good, because we chose to play it out like that. Two factions warring, just like Aion. The difference in SWG was that I was offered the option to undeclare and go covert, or go on "leave" so that I could focus on the pve content if I wanted to go out soloing, without running the risk of a pack of hounds or a much higher level player assaulting me endlessly as they did in L2. The option to pvp or pve depending on my mood, what I was trying to accomplish during my playtime, that is what made it fun for me.
From what I understand, v1.5 is bringing a penalty to discourage griefing, but in reality it doesn't *prevent* griefing. That's a shame. I hope I can enjoy playing Aion, both the pve and pvp sides of the game, without having to endure being griefed while I try to fulfill pve content. If not, if I find the situation similar to the way L2 discouraged me from even logging on to the game, then I'll drop by subscription after the first month of play and move along.
I don't see what's so wrong about players wanting to have an option to pvp, or a solid mechanic that can assure them they won't be griefed by the bully kids who live online, reach the level cap, then go looking for someone who they can spoil the game experience for. The pro-griefer side of the house keeps saying "Nooo don't allow a pvp optional server! make them all play with us!" Which I don't get. As well, people keep saying "stop trying to change the game to suit your own desires!" Which I don't get either. I played CoH from launch, and over the years the devs implemented many great features and quality of life enhancements into the game that the fanbase called out for. What's wrong with a good dev team listening to the player base and trying to widen their appeal to more players? It benefits the company, and in turn everyone wins.
I love pvp. I just don't love being griefed by unfair odds, by people who KNOW how unfair the odds are when they set out to grief me in the first place. If this runs rampant in Aion, me and many potential subscribers like myself will depart, and NC will just have to deal with the smaller North American and Euro player base who enjoy unfettered open pvp and the grief/gankfests they breed.
I truly hope that the PVP and the rifting can be left intact, but a satisfactory mechanic can be put in place that will prevent rampant griefing.
Very Well put Cat... I agree 100%. I love PvE and PvP both... but I have limited time to play mmo's, So when I do play I want to be able to do what it is I am doing before I must leave. If I'm trying to level in the 2 hour gap I hve between work and being at the field to coach my son's little league team. I dont wanna lose my whole day to being camped.
And to those who say if you dont like it dont play it.... same applies to the "riftless servers" we are asking for... you dont like it polay the rift server and you'd never even know there were these other types of servers. The only reason it would matter is that you are afraid we all would leave and you would have what you had on most pvp servers in AOC. A bunch of gankers standing around circle-jerking each other cause they ran everyone else off.
It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak
I think we need someone here with extensive rift knowledge (as well as maybe some L2 knowledge), because people are doing that thing again and compare something they have experienced and left them scarred, with something they're not quite grasping atm.
From my understanding, (I haven't actually played this cuz I only played cb6) rifts are anomalies that open up in certain places from time to time. There is also a cap on how many characters that can go through it. Provided this works in such a way that it doesn't allow for a constant stream of gankers everywhere, there is a huge difference right there to begin with.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Also, since rifts are programmed occurences it possibly means that the coders can regulate how often they occur. Right? Added to that, there is the slayer system. If you got people around you, eventually the intruders WILL be slayed and they can't just automatically re-enter a rift and do it all over again.
Without any actual playing experience with PvP in Aion, I'd say that if you like PvP, chances are you're gonna enjoy this system.
I believe rifts are alot more like events than a ffa pvp world.
@Quale that's the reason I laugh at those crybabies. Having experienced the game myselfe I can say that it isn't all that bad and some of the updates already included countermeasurers to tone it even more down. People are making up and imagining all kind of scenarios without knowing jackshit.
You're here to assure me that it can't happen? I won't see echoes of Lineage2 in Aion, where some bored high level toon who had a bad day at school won't be able to come into the area where I am trying to grind out level 20'something and two shot me to death repeatedly until I will need to take MisterMcBlurry's advice and just log off and go do something else?
Whew. I was being paranoid over nothing. Thanks for making me feel better.
You're here to assure me that it can't happen? I won't see echoes of Lineage2 in Aion, where some bored high level toon who had a bad day at school won't be able to come into the area where I am trying to grind out level 20'something and two shot me to death repeatedly until I will need to take MisterMcBlurry's advice and just log off and go do something else?
Whew. I was being paranoid over nothing. Thanks for making me feel better.
Great post.
The funny thing is that a lot of people who jumped on the "QQ more Care Bears, if you don't like it, don't play" band wagon will likely quit themselves over griefing. A few of these people will be in the top 10% of the leveling curve and adept at PvP, the rest are PvP posers.
I've discussed this issue until my fingers were sore. People will either get it, or they won't. I'm a PvP leaning player and will play on the core rule set, even if NCSoft reversed course and offered PvE servers. I'm typically in the top 10% of the leveling curve and I'm ok at PvP.
It was immediately obvious to me after playing in CB that NCSoft was going to be throwing away a large percentage of the Western market by not offering a more PvE friendly server type. I also would like to see a broader audience to be able to enjoy the game and have fun, which goes beyond the obvious economic factors for NCSoft. I respect others and always support alternative server types, when it's reasonable to expect that there is enough interest to support at least one full server and the development burden isn't too steep.
With roughly 2/3 of Western gamers choosing PvE servers over PvP servers, when given the choice, the demand is certainly there. It's also been pointed out many times the painfully simple methods that NCSoft could deploy in enabling a more PvE friendly rule set. No developer or coder heavy lifting required.
So, at this point, with NCSoft having pretty much completely ruled out PvE servers, I think it's at least fair that people know what the game is going to be like, so they can make an informed decision on whether to play or not.
Apparently, the "QQ more" types don't even want to afford PvE players that courtesy; either attacking discussions on the issue, or lying about the nature of the game. There has to be a number of people on the servers who are less skilled at PvP and who level more slowly than them, for most of these guys to have any chance at "griefing fun". So, I guess that must be part of their motivation...
People asking for no rifts just does not know enough about the system. There are alot of restrictions in place that prevents constant griefing, but still allow ganking to happen here and there. However of course for some people even being ganked once is too much in their opinion. I personally find Aion's balancing attempt to be commendable.
Another thing is I have not seen anyone asking for server with no rifts yet, I am sure someone thought about it and maybe spoke about it, but I am not sure if they actually asked NCsoft about it officially. I won't go so far as to call those people carebears, since using that term never sit right with me. I think we need to come up with a name for people that are anti-carebear too. Maybe something like poobear since they are usually full of shit.. and honey.
I've been called both a griefer and carebear depend on the situations both in game and on the forum, but I never understood why people try to categorize others. Why does someone either have to be carebear or griefer? Plenty of us live in the middle only to get calll both, which is getting annoying.
I'm not worried about pvp. Like I said before, I've enjoyed PVP in every MMO I've played pvp in.
All I'm concerned about is whether or not the devs will implement some game mechanic which removes the opportunity for the common griefer to have his fun on lowbies. Yes, when I pvp I want a semi-fair fight.
In CoH/CoV the pvp was interesting in that it normalized everyone's level so that you had a chance to connect with your attacks.
WoW of course offers battlegrounds where you pvp with people who are at least within 10 levels of your own level, so even though you might be up against heavyweights if you went in at the lower end of your bracket, again, at least you had a chance.
SWG allowed me to take off my "pvp flag" and play pve without worrying about being griefed. That worked well.
No matter how fun and beautiful and polished Aion is, if I find that griefing is over the top, I'll bow out pretty quickly.
To expect your customers to just log off and not play the game if another player is harassing them or inhibiting their enjoyment of the game is really not a good business model on behalf of the game company, in my opinion, and I won't support it beyond my initial purchase.
What ever happened to good sportsmanship? When I play WoW world PVP, when I see a lowbie I could gank, I just ride past them and /chuckle. There's no sense in me spoiling their fun, they aren't worth honor, they don't offer me a challenge, there is literally ZERO benefit in killing them. It's just good sportsmanlike conduct to leave the lowbie alone, and move on and look for a battle that yields some sort of reward.
A handful of people in this thread just don't get that concept, and I'm hoping that the devs will come up with a device that can hamper or prohibit that sort of play.
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations.
This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations. This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Aion v3 "RELOADED" - A glimpse into the future of the MMO genre
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations. This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point. I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms... By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?...
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations. This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point. I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms... By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?...
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations. This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point. I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms... By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?...
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
AoC didn't. Also Aion's lore and gameplay doesn't allow for a "PVE" server, since it would go against the whole story of conflict between the two races. You would have to change the entire game to suit your particular tastes.
Aion v3 "RELOADED" - A glimpse into the future of the MMO genre
There will never be a solution that everyone agrees on.
If you think about it for a minute you would realize that adding PvE servers would cause more problems then it would solve.
Right now pure PvE players know that Aion probably isn't for them and will stay away. Not waste their money, and most importantly, not complain about the PvP.
If PvE servers were added then those players would be able to level all the way to 50 in relative safety and then start complaining about how the game is catered to PvPers and that there needs to be more PvE content.
Then one of two things is going to happen.
NCSoft will give in to the PvE players and change the game to be more PvE based rather than PvPvE. This will hinder the progress and advancement of the PvPvE content which will lead to PvP players complaining.
Or NCSoft will not give in to the PvE players and stick to their original vision of a PvPvE game and the PvErs will leave citing not enough PvE content.
Either way, it will lead to more headaches for NCSoft in the long run.
NCSoft will hopefully stick to their guns and only offer PvPvE servers, that way everyone knows what they're getting and NCSoft only has to cater to their players instead of people that try to change the game into something they want to play instead of what Aion is.
There are plenty of other games out there that cater primarily to PvE players why are you trying to take this one too?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Simple answer to the OP question: Because people charge blindly into MMOs without reading a god damn thing and then bitch about how the game should change when they find out its not what they thought it would be. A good chunk of "Aion fans" jumped on board thinking "OMG the next WoW and u git wings!" completely failing to realize that RvR was a very core part of the game because they did absolutely no research themselves.
There will never be a solution that everyone agrees on. If you think about it for a minute you would realize that adding PvE servers would cause more problems then it would solve. Right now pure PvE players know that Aion probably isn't for them and will stay away. Not waste their money, and most importantly, not complain about the PvP. If PvE servers were added then those players would be able to level all the way to 50 in relative safety and then start complaining about how the game is catered to PvPers and that there needs to be more PvE content. Then one of two things is going to happen. NCSoft will give in to the PvE players and change the game to be more PvE based rather than PvPvE. This will hinder the progress and advancement of the PvPvE content which will lead to PvP players complaining. Or NCSoft will not give in to the PvE players and stick to their original vision of a PvPvE game and the PvErs will leave citing not enough PvE content. Either way, it will lead to more headaches for NCSoft in the long run. NCSoft will hopefully stick to their guns and only offer PvPvE servers, that way everyone knows what they're getting and NCSoft only has to cater to their players instead of people that try to change the game into something they want to play instead of what Aion is. There are plenty of other games out there that cater primarily to PvE players why are you trying to take this one too?
Actually Aion is designed to cater to those of us living in the grey areas between PvP and PvE enthusiasts. They include enough PvP and PvE contents to try to cater to a wider variety of players.
Just as in real life, nothing is purely black and white. Why does someone either have to be PvP or PvE player? Majority of people simply enjoy both to different degree, but we get sandwiched by the extremist opinions of both sides much like in real life.
Aion is in fact PvP centric, but you can easily tell NCsoft is not making it into this free for all gank fest. They focus on Abyss as the battle ground. Rifting is really just a way to get to the other faction's areas, whether it is used to gank or for raiding bosses on the opposite side is entirely up to the players.
Simply put, Aion is best played by people who knows how to both PvE and PvP. If someone say "anyone can "PvE", then I ROFL, but that is another topic all together.
By the way, only the first sentence is related to the quotes above, the rest are just derived thinking from that point on, so I am not really bashing anything in the quotes.
What's the harm in just having a few servers without rifts?
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
What's the harm in just having a few servers without rifts?
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
~_~ Yes, sadly to say I am actually interested in actually trying baby food one of these days if the chance present itself.
I wouldn't not go out and buy it, but if I come across one and no one is looking...
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Cute carebear poster. You kind of missed my point though.
See, I don't have a problem with PVP *at all*. If Aion had no pvp and was a strictly pve game, I wouldn't be interested. If I'm going to play a purely pvp game, I'd rather just play it in a FPS format. In a FPS, the playing field is leveled to the point that when you (re)spawn, you have the chance to kill the guy who killed you a few minutes ago. In an MMO with PvP, you might not have that chance. You might just be up against a guy with no sense of sportsmanlike play, who is bent on seeing how much of your playtime he can spoil, with his goal being your logging off and playing something else. I've seen it in L2 plenty of times.
I like the notion of a PvPvE game like Aion.
What people keep missing or just intentionally avoiding is my concern about griefing. There's a difference in building PVP into a game, and sanctioning griefing.
The "slayer" penalty concept that everyone has been discussing seems like it's on the right track, but IMO it should go farther than that - to the point that griefing isn't allowed, or the penalty is so devastating that no one would cross that line. What's wrong with keeping all the pvp and the rifting etc, but integrating some strictures that prevent a character who is x amount of levels above another character from being able to rift in and decimate him? The only reason to disagree with that notion is if you are anxiously looking forward to griefing lowbies.
Why can't the anti-carebear crowd realize that? I'm not arguing for a rift'less pve server. I'm just saying it would be nice if the pvp could be done in a way that mitigated the bullies who don't really want fair pvp, who just want to flex on lowbies who don't have a chance in hell of fighting back.
The solution to this issue isn't to remove the rifting. It's to take the slayer penalty and amp it up to such a degree that griefing is more painful for the griefer than the person he's griefing. Who would argue against that, except a griefer?
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations. This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point. I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms... By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?...
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
AoC didn't. Also Aion's lore and gameplay doesn't allow for a "PVE" server, since it would go against the whole story of conflict between the two races. You would have to change the entire game to suit your particular tastes.
AoC has quite a number of PvE servers. I've been on one. PvP is only by consent on those. In WoW, the Horde and Alliance are at war on the PvP realms. Yet it has more PvE realms than it does PvP. Its a matter of choice for the company. If they wish to forgo the profits to be had from PvE servers, thats their own decision<shrug>. In which case, they end up niched as Linage2 is in the west.
There will never be a solution that everyone agrees on. If you think about it for a minute you would realize that adding PvE servers would cause more problems then it would solve. Right now pure PvE players know that Aion probably isn't for them and will stay away. Not waste their money, and most importantly, not complain about the PvP. If PvE servers were added then those players would be able to level all the way to 50 in relative safety and then start complaining about how the game is catered to PvPers and that there needs to be more PvE content. Then one of two things is going to happen. NCSoft will give in to the PvE players and change the game to be more PvE based rather than PvPvE. This will hinder the progress and advancement of the PvPvE content which will lead to PvP players complaining. Or NCSoft will not give in to the PvE players and stick to their original vision of a PvPvE game and the PvErs will leave citing not enough PvE content. Either way, it will lead to more headaches for NCSoft in the long run. NCSoft will hopefully stick to their guns and only offer PvPvE servers, that way everyone knows what they're getting and NCSoft only has to cater to their players instead of people that try to change the game into something they want to play instead of what Aion is. There are plenty of other games out there that cater primarily to PvE players why are you trying to take this one too?
Its all about choices. If NCsoft chooses to niche itself by offering only PvP servers, thats between it and its investors<shrug> . It wouldn't be the first(nor the last) Asian company to make that mistake. Offering PvE servers, with PvP available by flag(as it is on WoW PvE servers) wouldn't cost much at all. If you are flagged you are fair game. If you are not, you can't be touched. The Abyss might be set up as an auto flag zone. On entry you would be warned, and given a 5 second count to exit before you are flagged.
One wonders about the motivations of those who are so fanatically against expanding choices here... PvP and PvE servers exist in many, many games. It also expands the companies potential profits. The only down side I can see is the loss of unwilling/inexperienced victims for ganking/griefing...
There will never be a solution that everyone agrees on. If you think about it for a minute you would realize that adding PvE servers would cause more problems then it would solve. Right now pure PvE players know that Aion probably isn't for them and will stay away. Not waste their money, and most importantly, not complain about the PvP. If PvE servers were added then those players would be able to level all the way to 50 in relative safety and then start complaining about how the game is catered to PvPers and that there needs to be more PvE content. Then one of two things is going to happen. NCSoft will give in to the PvE players and change the game to be more PvE based rather than PvPvE. This will hinder the progress and advancement of the PvPvE content which will lead to PvP players complaining. Or NCSoft will not give in to the PvE players and stick to their original vision of a PvPvE game and the PvErs will leave citing not enough PvE content. Either way, it will lead to more headaches for NCSoft in the long run. NCSoft will hopefully stick to their guns and only offer PvPvE servers, that way everyone knows what they're getting and NCSoft only has to cater to their players instead of people that try to change the game into something they want to play instead of what Aion is. There are plenty of other games out there that cater primarily to PvE players why are you trying to take this one too?
People are going to ask for more PvE content anyway since it's a PvPvE game not a straight PvP game. So wether they add rift-less servers or not they still need to add PvE content. So once again, no loss.
What's the harm in just having a few servers without rifts?
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
You might ask that of Blizzard... They have more money than some countries governments...
For all of the hatred of WoW from certain quarters, the FACT remains that just about any company and its Dev's would switch places with Blizzard in a HEART BEAT...
Comments
Very Well put Cat... I agree 100%. I love PvE and PvP both... but I have limited time to play mmo's, So when I do play I want to be able to do what it is I am doing before I must leave. If I'm trying to level in the 2 hour gap I hve between work and being at the field to coach my son's little league team. I dont wanna lose my whole day to being camped.
And to those who say if you dont like it dont play it.... same applies to the "riftless servers" we are asking for... you dont like it polay the rift server and you'd never even know there were these other types of servers. The only reason it would matter is that you are afraid we all would leave and you would have what you had on most pvp servers in AOC. A bunch of gankers standing around circle-jerking each other cause they ran everyone else off.
It sucks being a hardcore player at heart but a casual player in availability. ~NightCloak
I think we need someone here with extensive rift knowledge (as well as maybe some L2 knowledge), because people are doing that thing again and compare something they have experienced and left them scarred, with something they're not quite grasping atm.
From my understanding, (I haven't actually played this cuz I only played cb6) rifts are anomalies that open up in certain places from time to time. There is also a cap on how many characters that can go through it. Provided this works in such a way that it doesn't allow for a constant stream of gankers everywhere, there is a huge difference right there to begin with.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Also, since rifts are programmed occurences it possibly means that the coders can regulate how often they occur. Right? Added to that, there is the slayer system. If you got people around you, eventually the intruders WILL be slayed and they can't just automatically re-enter a rift and do it all over again.
Without any actual playing experience with PvP in Aion, I'd say that if you like PvP, chances are you're gonna enjoy this system.
I believe rifts are alot more like events than a ffa pvp world.
@Quale that's the reason I laugh at those crybabies. Having experienced the game myselfe I can say that it isn't all that bad and some of the updates already included countermeasurers to tone it even more down. People are making up and imagining all kind of scenarios without knowing jackshit.
Forced pvp bwaaaa buhuhuhuhu.
Get over it.
Oh good.
You're here to assure me that it can't happen? I won't see echoes of Lineage2 in Aion, where some bored high level toon who had a bad day at school won't be able to come into the area where I am trying to grind out level 20'something and two shot me to death repeatedly until I will need to take MisterMcBlurry's advice and just log off and go do something else?
Whew. I was being paranoid over nothing. Thanks for making me feel better.
Oh good.
You're here to assure me that it can't happen? I won't see echoes of Lineage2 in Aion, where some bored high level toon who had a bad day at school won't be able to come into the area where I am trying to grind out level 20'something and two shot me to death repeatedly until I will need to take MisterMcBlurry's advice and just log off and go do something else?
Whew. I was being paranoid over nothing. Thanks for making me feel better.
Great post.
The funny thing is that a lot of people who jumped on the "QQ more Care Bears, if you don't like it, don't play" band wagon will likely quit themselves over griefing. A few of these people will be in the top 10% of the leveling curve and adept at PvP, the rest are PvP posers.
I've discussed this issue until my fingers were sore. People will either get it, or they won't. I'm a PvP leaning player and will play on the core rule set, even if NCSoft reversed course and offered PvE servers. I'm typically in the top 10% of the leveling curve and I'm ok at PvP.
It was immediately obvious to me after playing in CB that NCSoft was going to be throwing away a large percentage of the Western market by not offering a more PvE friendly server type. I also would like to see a broader audience to be able to enjoy the game and have fun, which goes beyond the obvious economic factors for NCSoft. I respect others and always support alternative server types, when it's reasonable to expect that there is enough interest to support at least one full server and the development burden isn't too steep.
With roughly 2/3 of Western gamers choosing PvE servers over PvP servers, when given the choice, the demand is certainly there. It's also been pointed out many times the painfully simple methods that NCSoft could deploy in enabling a more PvE friendly rule set. No developer or coder heavy lifting required.
So, at this point, with NCSoft having pretty much completely ruled out PvE servers, I think it's at least fair that people know what the game is going to be like, so they can make an informed decision on whether to play or not.
Apparently, the "QQ more" types don't even want to afford PvE players that courtesy; either attacking discussions on the issue, or lying about the nature of the game. There has to be a number of people on the servers who are less skilled at PvP and who level more slowly than them, for most of these guys to have any chance at "griefing fun". So, I guess that must be part of their motivation...
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
People asking for no rifts just does not know enough about the system. There are alot of restrictions in place that prevents constant griefing, but still allow ganking to happen here and there. However of course for some people even being ganked once is too much in their opinion. I personally find Aion's balancing attempt to be commendable.
Another thing is I have not seen anyone asking for server with no rifts yet, I am sure someone thought about it and maybe spoke about it, but I am not sure if they actually asked NCsoft about it officially. I won't go so far as to call those people carebears, since using that term never sit right with me. I think we need to come up with a name for people that are anti-carebear too. Maybe something like poobear since they are usually full of shit.. and honey.
I've been called both a griefer and carebear depend on the situations both in game and on the forum, but I never understood why people try to categorize others. Why does someone either have to be carebear or griefer? Plenty of us live in the middle only to get calll both, which is getting annoying.
Thanks Fiontar.
I'm not worried about pvp. Like I said before, I've enjoyed PVP in every MMO I've played pvp in.
All I'm concerned about is whether or not the devs will implement some game mechanic which removes the opportunity for the common griefer to have his fun on lowbies. Yes, when I pvp I want a semi-fair fight.
In CoH/CoV the pvp was interesting in that it normalized everyone's level so that you had a chance to connect with your attacks.
WoW of course offers battlegrounds where you pvp with people who are at least within 10 levels of your own level, so even though you might be up against heavyweights if you went in at the lower end of your bracket, again, at least you had a chance.
SWG allowed me to take off my "pvp flag" and play pve without worrying about being griefed. That worked well.
No matter how fun and beautiful and polished Aion is, if I find that griefing is over the top, I'll bow out pretty quickly.
To expect your customers to just log off and not play the game if another player is harassing them or inhibiting their enjoyment of the game is really not a good business model on behalf of the game company, in my opinion, and I won't support it beyond my initial purchase.
What ever happened to good sportsmanship? When I play WoW world PVP, when I see a lowbie I could gank, I just ride past them and /chuckle. There's no sense in me spoiling their fun, they aren't worth honor, they don't offer me a challenge, there is literally ZERO benefit in killing them. It's just good sportsmanlike conduct to leave the lowbie alone, and move on and look for a battle that yields some sort of reward.
A handful of people in this thread just don't get that concept, and I'm hoping that the devs will come up with a device that can hamper or prohibit that sort of play.
Cat, much of this goes back to the difference in cultures. Korean and Chinese(as just two examples) players have been conditioned to accept and expect levels of ganking and griefing that would not only niche a western company, but would destroy their business model. Its an internal perspective. You've seen scattered examples of it here. "Suck it up!" "Grow a pair!" "Quit crying!" "Grind harder!" are all examples of people who simply can't understand/tolerate a difference in perceptions/expectations.
This mentality is not confined to games. mores the pity. I can understand the mentality, but I do not choose to inflict such on myself for *entertainment*. The idea of having to constantly be looking over ones shoulder is not at all appealing to me. Nor to many, many others in the West. Those Asian companies that eventually succeed beyond a niche will adapt to that. But it will take understanding the difference in the cultures involved to do so.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Aion v3 "RELOADED" - A glimpse into the future of the MMO genre
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point.
I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms...
By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?... 
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point.
I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms...
By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?... 
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point.
I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms...
By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?... 
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
AoC didn't. Also Aion's lore and gameplay doesn't allow for a "PVE" server, since it would go against the whole story of conflict between the two races. You would have to change the entire game to suit your particular tastes.
Aion v3 "RELOADED" - A glimpse into the future of the MMO genre
There will never be a solution that everyone agrees on.
If you think about it for a minute you would realize that adding PvE servers would cause more problems then it would solve.
Right now pure PvE players know that Aion probably isn't for them and will stay away. Not waste their money, and most importantly, not complain about the PvP.
If PvE servers were added then those players would be able to level all the way to 50 in relative safety and then start complaining about how the game is catered to PvPers and that there needs to be more PvE content.
Then one of two things is going to happen.
NCSoft will give in to the PvE players and change the game to be more PvE based rather than PvPvE. This will hinder the progress and advancement of the PvPvE content which will lead to PvP players complaining.
Or NCSoft will not give in to the PvE players and stick to their original vision of a PvPvE game and the PvErs will leave citing not enough PvE content.
Either way, it will lead to more headaches for NCSoft in the long run.
NCSoft will hopefully stick to their guns and only offer PvPvE servers, that way everyone knows what they're getting and NCSoft only has to cater to their players instead of people that try to change the game into something they want to play instead of what Aion is.
There are plenty of other games out there that cater primarily to PvE players why are you trying to take this one too?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Simple answer to the OP question: Because people charge blindly into MMOs without reading a god damn thing and then bitch about how the game should change when they find out its not what they thought it would be. A good chunk of "Aion fans" jumped on board thinking "OMG the next WoW and u git wings!" completely failing to realize that RvR was a very core part of the game because they did absolutely no research themselves.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Actually Aion is designed to cater to those of us living in the grey areas between PvP and PvE enthusiasts. They include enough PvP and PvE contents to try to cater to a wider variety of players.
Just as in real life, nothing is purely black and white. Why does someone either have to be PvP or PvE player? Majority of people simply enjoy both to different degree, but we get sandwiched by the extremist opinions of both sides much like in real life.
Aion is in fact PvP centric, but you can easily tell NCsoft is not making it into this free for all gank fest. They focus on Abyss as the battle ground. Rifting is really just a way to get to the other faction's areas, whether it is used to gank or for raiding bosses on the opposite side is entirely up to the players.
Simply put, Aion is best played by people who knows how to both PvE and PvP. If someone say "anyone can "PvE", then I ROFL, but that is another topic all together.
By the way, only the first sentence is related to the quotes above, the rest are just derived thinking from that point on, so I am not really bashing anything in the quotes.
Why do people keep asking for servers with no rifts?
Beacause they want a WoW-like PvE game with Aion's art style.
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
~_~ Yes, sadly to say I am actually interested in actually trying baby food one of these days if the chance present itself.
I wouldn't not go out and buy it, but if I come across one and no one is looking...
Cute carebear poster.
You kind of missed my point though.
See, I don't have a problem with PVP *at all*. If Aion had no pvp and was a strictly pve game, I wouldn't be interested. If I'm going to play a purely pvp game, I'd rather just play it in a FPS format. In a FPS, the playing field is leveled to the point that when you (re)spawn, you have the chance to kill the guy who killed you a few minutes ago. In an MMO with PvP, you might not have that chance. You might just be up against a guy with no sense of sportsmanlike play, who is bent on seeing how much of your playtime he can spoil, with his goal being your logging off and playing something else. I've seen it in L2 plenty of times.
I like the notion of a PvPvE game like Aion.
What people keep missing or just intentionally avoiding is my concern about griefing. There's a difference in building PVP into a game, and sanctioning griefing.
The "slayer" penalty concept that everyone has been discussing seems like it's on the right track, but IMO it should go farther than that - to the point that griefing isn't allowed, or the penalty is so devastating that no one would cross that line.
What's wrong with keeping all the pvp and the rifting etc, but integrating some strictures that prevent a character who is x amount of levels above another character from being able to rift in and decimate him? The only reason to disagree with that notion is if you are anxiously looking forward to griefing lowbies.
Why can't the anti-carebear crowd realize that? I'm not arguing for a rift'less pve server. I'm just saying it would be nice if the pvp could be done in a way that mitigated the bullies who don't really want fair pvp, who just want to flex on lowbies who don't have a chance in hell of fighting back.
The solution to this issue isn't to remove the rifting. It's to take the slayer penalty and amp it up to such a degree that griefing is more painful for the griefer than the person he's griefing. Who would argue against that, except a griefer?
Alot of people in the west enjoy PvP, i'm not sure where your getting your facts from. Aion already has 3.5 mill players in asia and is growing, so your argument about it not being a success is wrong aswell. You can always play strictly PVE games like LOTR, so you don't have to keep crying that Aion isn't catering to your carebear needs.
Thanks for proving my point.
I've not once advocated limiting your choices. If you want full time PvP, by all means do so. All I've ever advocated is *expanding* the choices for everyone. Of course, if people had more choices, that would mean that everyone on the PvP servers wish to be there... Which would tend to make things *difficult* for the gankers/griefers... Who must have inexperienced/unwilling players to act as their victims... Such types tend not to do at all well on real PvP realms...
By the way, I *like* that picture. You did notice my avatar I trust?... 
In reference to numbers, one has only to look at the typical demographics to know that there are a lot more of us CareBears, than there are PvP types. Even in games like Eve, thats the fact(which drives the CCP Dev's up the wall ^^).
Yes any game that offers a choice of server types always has more PVE servers than PVP.
AoC didn't. Also Aion's lore and gameplay doesn't allow for a "PVE" server, since it would go against the whole story of conflict between the two races. You would have to change the entire game to suit your particular tastes.
AoC has quite a number of PvE servers. I've been on one. PvP is only by consent on those. In WoW, the Horde and Alliance are at war on the PvP realms. Yet it has more PvE realms than it does PvP. Its a matter of choice for the company. If they wish to forgo the profits to be had from PvE servers, thats their own decision<shrug>. In which case, they end up niched as Linage2 is in the west.
Its all about choices. If NCsoft chooses to niche itself by offering only PvP servers, thats between it and its investors<shrug> . It wouldn't be the first(nor the last) Asian company to make that mistake. Offering PvE servers, with PvP available by flag(as it is on WoW PvE servers) wouldn't cost much at all. If you are flagged you are fair game. If you are not, you can't be touched. The Abyss might be set up as an auto flag zone. On entry you would be warned, and given a 5 second count to exit before you are flagged.
One wonders about the motivations of those who are so fanatically against expanding choices here... PvP and PvE servers exist in many, many games. It also expands the companies potential profits. The only down side I can see is the loss of unwilling/inexperienced victims for ganking/griefing...
People are going to ask for more PvE content anyway since it's a PvPvE game not a straight PvP game. So wether they add rift-less servers or not they still need to add PvE content. So once again, no loss.
Because it ignores the storyline
/facepalm.
People don't need special servers to ignore the storyline. They can do that quite comfortably anywhere they happen to be. The real question is why do you care what they're ignoring if they're on another server? Especially if the alternative is they won't play at all?
Because it wouldn't be people ignoring the storyline. It would be the DEVELOPERS ignoring it. It would send a bad message.
Might as well ask for Elyos or Asmodian only servers next, or no abyss servers. Or servers where Mobs serve you tea and crumpets.
Ignoring lore is NOT going to send any such message. Mythic had/has a server in DAoC called Gaheris where Mids, Albs and Hibs all hug and "get along". Wasn't of interest to me but it didn't ruin pvp/rvr for those of us that wanted it. As for me, I like the rifts. IMHO, any mmo that tries to be all things to all players will end up like baby food.....yes, it might be beef but do you really want to eat it?
You might ask that of Blizzard... They have more money than some countries governments...
For all of the hatred of WoW from certain quarters, the FACT remains that just about any company and its Dev's would switch places with Blizzard in a HEART BEAT...
"Why do people keep asking for servers with no rifts?"
Mentally Defective?
Abused as small children?
Or, more likely, just cuz they are pussies...
That description sounds like griefer/ganker of lowbies to me.