First off, first person view does not work in an MMO unless you offer it as an option. The vast majority of players want to see what they are wearing. I don't grasp how posters think they need first person view for immersion.
The people who wish to see what they are wearing can use mirrors, water reflections, or a paperdoll which will be added to the character/inventory screen.
You don't grasp how posters think they need FPV for immersion, I don't grasp how people can get immersed in a game that does not have FPV. It's a matter of preference and that's that.
While Mortal Online does sound full of potential, it smells far too much of some of the things that make Darkfall a truly awful experience.
Specifically full loot = people who have min-maxed butchering noobies/taking their stuff and generally turning them right off the game before they really start getting into it. Skills good if done right. Darkfall = blood walls = Epic Fail.
Proud Master CH - Sorry, Proud FORMER Master CH... my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy
think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.
It's very easy to see that many of the systems in modern MMO's are there to actually take away from the amount of player skill and player-to-player (PtP) interaction needed, whether it is minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat etc. It makes them fun and gives them a flow, but it also makes them casual as anyone can play without much thought (and that's also where the big money is). Now obviously we want Mortal Online to be fun to play and successful, but we're not ready to make compromises on our design principles: Player Skill, Player Interaction and PvP, Immersion and Believability. Therefore a lot of the features one would expect to see in a modern MMO are different, or we have simply removed them.
This is full of fail.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR MO will take place in a medieval low fantasy world, where technology is not nearly as advanced, so it simply wouldn't make sense to implement them if one wishes to strive for realism, as MO developers clearly do.
most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Say it again, at some point, you will believe it if you say it enough.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
It's very easy to see that many of the systems in modern MMO's are there to actually take away from the amount of player skill and player-to-player (PtP) interaction needed, whether it is minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat etc. It makes them fun and gives them a flow, but it also makes them casual as anyone can play without much thought (and that's also where the big money is). Now obviously we want Mortal Online to be fun to play and successful, but we're not ready to make compromises on our design principles: Player Skill, Player Interaction and PvP, Immersion and Believability. Therefore a lot of the features one would expect to see in a modern MMO are different, or we have simply removed them.
This is full of fail.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game." Best paragraph ever.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Guess I'll just wait for MO to implement large scale pvp ala sieges and watch it's development till then. No harm done, at least they are open about it.
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game." Best paragraph ever.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
LOL, it seems to have gotten your panties in a knot. Do you happen to be one of those simpletons?
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Or, you could read what I type, and not insert your own assumptions, then attack me on the basis of those assumptions.
Because it leaves me no reason to clarify anything.
But you knew this.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
How else do you think he has so many posts. He posts some stupid shit, others like you call him on it, then he posts twenty more times calling into question your reading comprehension etc.
[quote]think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.[/Quote]
that's the spirit, you are free criticsize all you want to, but AFTER the game is released, until now just wish the dream will come true, and cheer the devs who have the balls to make something outside of the main stream.
That's why i don't hate Darkfall devs, even if their game was a freaking dissapointement for me, they at least dared to make something different, that hopefully create change in minds. And from what i see they made huge progress with last patches.
I don't understand how people can spill their hate on the one developper who is frank about his opinion and the game status, while the same people appraise the marketing guys of big company with words full of shit and interviews where you learn nothing just to hype their game ...
He's a prolific poster that likes to argue on the forums and blend in trolling with some logic, just enough for him to keep posting and not get banned.
But truthfully if you read his posts he does not really bring anything of value to a discussion.
I really don't know how to feel about this game. On the one hand, it tickles me right where pre-Trammel UO used to, but with up to date graphics and such. I really like to concepts they have been talking about, but I'm not convinced that they can deliver, yet. I honestly don't think DF/AV delivered, and I'm certainly not going to shell out any cash to find out at this point... it's still in beta and I have no idea if the current state of the game is at all reflective of what the released game will be like. I've been keeping an eye on MO though, and I will continue to do so until I get an opportunity to really see what happens and maybe even get an opportunity to try it out for myself.
Oh and welcome to my blocked list all you fine, lovely trolls in this thread... have a nice stay.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game." Best paragraph ever.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way. The whole principle of casual gameing is to increase the rate at which satisfaction in whatever form the game can enduce it, is achieved. By it's very nature a casual game aimed at casual gamers will have short cuts and simplifications that over time have been accepted and requested by many casual players. And a good thing to, there have been times in my life where rl has meant I was a casual mmo'er and tbh instant gratification in my limited play time was exactly what I was looking for.
However I fail to see how MO in it's innitial release won't also be a casual game, moreso even than WoW and the like. There are no extreme concepts to understand and the only learning curve will be avoiding mass gankage. If the combat is done well the learning curve will be in honing your pvp skills to the games nuances, after playing PS for 6 years and still learning I'm kinda looking forward to that challenge.
Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. There was nothing about what goals will exist to players when the game releases if there are no sieges etc.
I understand that he was simply answering the question put in front of him, but it is part of his job to sell his game. The niche he's looking for will want to know the answers to more important questions than those that were asked and he should have taken the opportunity to do so. What is the long term playability of the game with regards to its resouce availability and crafting infrastructure, what measures/mechanics will there be to assist in the longevity of the economy. I dont' want to have to scrape a 100 gold in the first year and be stupidly wealthy only to have an equivalent a year later of a billion.
He spoke about the relationship between crafting and combat but didn't really explain how it will work, just that it will because people fighting will need crafted items. The whole metagame created by local banking is a massive plus to this but over time this will wither if the balance to the resources themselves isn't there.
I also felt that there was a huge skim over the murderer/ainto-ganking thing, just that it will work but 'it's hard to explain in words'? Well I'm potentially going to invest in your game,... fucking try.
I know I'm probably expecting too much from an initial 2 page interview but tbh the whole 2 pages was filled with shit that is not important, 90% of it was repeated continually and was a lot of aspiration, not enough substance. I guess thats just not what the interview was about, off to the site to see if I can find answers, I'll not hold my breath.
Edit: I dont proof read, sue me.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game." Best paragraph ever.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way.
Not sure how you can read any of that as non derogatory.
That's fine though. We will see come launch.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
He's a prolific poster that likes to argue on the forums and blend in trolling with some logic, just enough for him to keep posting and not get banned.
But truthfully if you read his posts he does not really bring anything of value to a discussion.
He's a prolific poster that likes to argue on the forums and blend in trolling with some logic, just enough for him to keep posting and not get banned.
But truthfully if you read his posts he does not really bring anything of value to a discussion.
Shouldn't you be playing the second coming of the mecca game darkfall, that clearly I was completely wrong about?
OOOOO, that's right! I wasn't.
Its fine if you guys dont agree with me, I have never cared. But that still makes you wrong.
There hasn't been a post in response to my post that has a made a lick of since other than "Im so hardcore please cockpunch me on death", and are simply full of assumptions, straw men, and attacks.
Why would I respond to you clowns seriously?
I don't post hate, I post criticisms. I leave the hating to you guys. You never disappoint
.
Ok, point out where I said "I am so hardcore", where my false assumptions lie, where the straw men were and where the attacks are. You were clearly 100% wrong in calling the guy an 'armchair developer", though. When you say something as silly as that, it's prone to discredit other things you say, which is a logical fallacy, but luckily in this case, the other things you say were full of false assumptions anyway, so no harm done.
Originally posted by grimfall You were clearly 100% wrong in calling the guy an 'armchair developer", though.
No real developer would say such things, they may think it, but they will do the best they can not to say it in public. Its amateur at best, and borne of forums.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
"Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. "
Well he can't talk about everything, of course there will be decay, he has explained it many time on the forums, check on the MO official forums all the posts of "Mats Persson" you'll have a good read about the game, especially his posts about crafting and how it will fit in the economy
Actually there is 2 attributes of durability for weapons/armor, the "durability" and the "durability type".
Here is a quote from the same Mats, the durability is explained in the example at the end :
"The main attributes of a weapon are:
Speed
Range
Damage
Generally speaking, the better the weapon is in two of these attributes, the worse it is in the third. A weapon with good Range and Damage are not that good for Speed (like a Halberd). A weapon that has both high Speed and Range, doesn't give as much damage (like a Spear). And a weapon that has good Speed and Damage doesn't have very good Range (like an Arming Sword).
But almost as important factors are for instance (many of these are of course connected in some way or another, but still important as individual characteristics):
Durability
Durability Type
Availability/Price*
Crafting Difficulty (and Crafting Prerequisites)
Skill Prerequisites
Weight
Strength Requirement
Stamina Drain
Blunt Damage
Cutting Damage
Piercing Damage
Enchant Difficulty
Enchant Modifier
Armor Gusset Hit Modifier
Grip Quality
..and a few more
*Not a stat, rather a result of supply and demand
No single handle, head or material is "the best one", as that will vary depending on your personal fighting style and character skill setup. Also, one combination might be very good against a certain armor but perform bad against another.
To give you a quick example, your precious Diamond Blade, although you won't be able to craft a "diamond blade" in MO so I choose Nyx (like Onyx) instead, will be very sharp but also very light, resulting in much less Blunt Damage than even a "common" Steel Blade. The Durability Type of the Diamond/Nyx sword would mean it would be very resistant (hard) against a lot of other materials, but once it cracked, it would be totally useless due to its very low Durability. Furthermore, it would be rather easy to Enchant, but not as easy, or give the same bonuses, as the Bone Blade you mention (depending on what type of Bone you used)."
Comments
The people who wish to see what they are wearing can use mirrors, water reflections, or a paperdoll which will be added to the character/inventory screen.
You don't grasp how posters think they need FPV for immersion, I don't grasp how people can get immersed in a game that does not have FPV. It's a matter of preference and that's that.
While Mortal Online does sound full of potential, it smells far too much of some of the things that make Darkfall a truly awful experience.
Specifically full loot = people who have min-maxed butchering noobies/taking their stuff and generally turning them right off the game before they really start getting into it.
Skills good if done right. Darkfall = blood walls = Epic Fail.
Proud Master CH -
Sorry,
Proud FORMER Master CH...
my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy
think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
This is full of fail.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Say it again, at some point, you will believe it if you say it enough.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
This is full of fail.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."
Best paragraph ever.
i love the FIRST PERSON VIEW ONLY idea in a mmo like this
it will make aven an easy mode game become very hard
imagine playing wow in fpv only wow ,talk about hard mode ,most player dont believe how hard a game become
i wish more game had server blocked to fpv
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Guess I'll just wait for MO to implement large scale pvp ala sieges and watch it's development till then. No harm done, at least they are open about it.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
LOL, it seems to have gotten your panties in a knot. Do you happen to be one of those simpletons?
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Or, you could read what I type, and not insert your own assumptions, then attack me on the basis of those assumptions.
Because it leaves me no reason to clarify anything.
But you knew this.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
How else do you think he has so many posts. He posts some stupid shit, others like you call him on it, then he posts twenty more times calling into question your reading comprehension etc.
[quote]think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.[/Quote]
that's the spirit, you are free criticsize all you want to, but AFTER the game is released, until now just wish the dream will come true, and cheer the devs who have the balls to make something outside of the main stream.
That's why i don't hate Darkfall devs, even if their game was a freaking dissapointement for me, they at least dared to make something different, that hopefully create change in minds. And from what i see they made huge progress with last patches.
I don't understand how people can spill their hate on the one developper who is frank about his opinion and the game status, while the same people appraise the marketing guys of big company with words full of shit and interviews where you learn nothing just to hype their game ...
Dont pay any mind to Bloodworth.
He's a prolific poster that likes to argue on the forums and blend in trolling with some logic, just enough for him to keep posting and not get banned.
But truthfully if you read his posts he does not really bring anything of value to a discussion.
I really don't know how to feel about this game. On the one hand, it tickles me right where pre-Trammel UO used to, but with up to date graphics and such. I really like to concepts they have been talking about, but I'm not convinced that they can deliver, yet. I honestly don't think DF/AV delivered, and I'm certainly not going to shell out any cash to find out at this point... it's still in beta and I have no idea if the current state of the game is at all reflective of what the released game will be like. I've been keeping an eye on MO though, and I will continue to do so until I get an opportunity to really see what happens and maybe even get an opportunity to try it out for myself.
Oh and welcome to my blocked list all you fine, lovely trolls in this thread... have a nice stay.
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way. The whole principle of casual gameing is to increase the rate at which satisfaction in whatever form the game can enduce it, is achieved. By it's very nature a casual game aimed at casual gamers will have short cuts and simplifications that over time have been accepted and requested by many casual players. And a good thing to, there have been times in my life where rl has meant I was a casual mmo'er and tbh instant gratification in my limited play time was exactly what I was looking for.
However I fail to see how MO in it's innitial release won't also be a casual game, moreso even than WoW and the like. There are no extreme concepts to understand and the only learning curve will be avoiding mass gankage. If the combat is done well the learning curve will be in honing your pvp skills to the games nuances, after playing PS for 6 years and still learning I'm kinda looking forward to that challenge.
Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. There was nothing about what goals will exist to players when the game releases if there are no sieges etc.
I understand that he was simply answering the question put in front of him, but it is part of his job to sell his game. The niche he's looking for will want to know the answers to more important questions than those that were asked and he should have taken the opportunity to do so. What is the long term playability of the game with regards to its resouce availability and crafting infrastructure, what measures/mechanics will there be to assist in the longevity of the economy. I dont' want to have to scrape a 100 gold in the first year and be stupidly wealthy only to have an equivalent a year later of a billion.
He spoke about the relationship between crafting and combat but didn't really explain how it will work, just that it will because people fighting will need crafted items. The whole metagame created by local banking is a massive plus to this but over time this will wither if the balance to the resources themselves isn't there.
I also felt that there was a huge skim over the murderer/ainto-ganking thing, just that it will work but 'it's hard to explain in words'? Well I'm potentially going to invest in your game,... fucking try.
I know I'm probably expecting too much from an initial 2 page interview but tbh the whole 2 pages was filled with shit that is not important, 90% of it was repeated continually and was a lot of aspiration, not enough substance. I guess thats just not what the interview was about, off to the site to see if I can find answers, I'll not hold my breath.
Edit: I dont proof read, sue me.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way.
Not sure how you can read any of that as non derogatory.
That's fine though. We will see come launch.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Why would I respond to you clowns seriously?
Exactly what I was saying: you dont.
Shouldn't you be playing the second coming of the mecca game darkfall, that clearly I was completely wrong about?
OOOOO, that's right! I wasn't.
Its fine if you guys dont agree with me, I have never cared. But that still makes you wrong.
There hasn't been a post in response to my post that has a made a lick of since other than "Im so hardcore please cockpunch me on death", and are simply full of assumptions, straw men, and attacks.
Why would I respond to you clowns seriously?
I don't post hate, I post criticisms. I leave the hating to you guys. You never disappoint
.
Ok, point out where I said "I am so hardcore", where my false assumptions lie, where the straw men were and where the attacks are. You were clearly 100% wrong in calling the guy an 'armchair developer", though. When you say something as silly as that, it's prone to discredit other things you say, which is a logical fallacy, but luckily in this case, the other things you say were full of false assumptions anyway, so no harm done.
No real developer would say such things, they may think it, but they will do the best they can not to say it in public. Its amateur at best, and borne of forums.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
"Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. "
Well he can't talk about everything, of course there will be decay, he has explained it many time on the forums, check on the MO official forums all the posts of "Mats Persson" you'll have a good read about the game, especially his posts about crafting and how it will fit in the economy
Actually there is 2 attributes of durability for weapons/armor, the "durability" and the "durability type".
Here is a quote from the same Mats, the durability is explained in the example at the end :
"The main attributes of a weapon are:
Speed
Range
Damage
Generally speaking, the better the weapon is in two of these attributes, the worse it is in the third. A weapon with good Range and Damage are not that good for Speed (like a Halberd). A weapon that has both high Speed and Range, doesn't give as much damage (like a Spear). And a weapon that has good Speed and Damage doesn't have very good Range (like an Arming Sword).
But almost as important factors are for instance (many of these are of course connected in some way or another, but still important as individual characteristics):
Durability
Durability Type
Availability/Price*
Crafting Difficulty (and Crafting Prerequisites)
Skill Prerequisites
Weight
Strength Requirement
Stamina Drain
Blunt Damage
Cutting Damage
Piercing Damage
Enchant Difficulty
Enchant Modifier
Armor Gusset Hit Modifier
Grip Quality
..and a few more
*Not a stat, rather a result of supply and demand
No single handle, head or material is "the best one", as that will vary depending on your personal fighting style and character skill setup. Also, one combination might be very good against a certain armor but perform bad against another.
To give you a quick example, your precious Diamond Blade, although you won't be able to craft a "diamond blade" in MO so I choose Nyx (like Onyx) instead, will be very sharp but also very light, resulting in much less Blunt Damage than even a "common" Steel Blade. The Durability Type of the Diamond/Nyx sword would mean it would be very resistant (hard) against a lot of other materials, but once it cracked, it would be totally useless due to its very low Durability. Furthermore, it would be rather easy to Enchant, but not as easy, or give the same bonuses, as the Bone Blade you mention (depending on what type of Bone you used)."
The flagging system is explained here :
http://www.mortalonline.com/combat/flagging
Read especially the PDF files to get a real overview of the flagging mechanics
This interview is to explain what MO is about, if you want to learn about the metagame, etc. just have peek to Mortal Online forums
This game looks awesome.. But I've learned to fear awesomeness in MMOs...
Let's just say I used to love UO and I'll be keeping an eye on this one...
I hope Star Vault pulls it off, this game sounds great!