Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
PVP - SANDBOX upsides and downsides....
daveospice
Member UncommonPosts: 366
So I buckled down and bought this game for my sister and I, we are hardcore gamers. We played d2 on hardcore, any game that has iron man we do it... always toughest difficulty and we've played UO, shadowbane, warhammer, DAOC, you name it...
We're gamers. We're always looking for more challenge.
We're also part of a very small community. Very small. A game shouldn't be based around just us. It wouldn't survive. Oh wait, UO and shadowbane didn't really survive when they catered to us. That's right.
Well having so much experience i can already tell unless they do something this game will fail.
Here's how:
Gankers
Yes I love pvp and don't mind them anymore. I remember when I did, it was back in UO when I got killed and my house key was looted off my corpse. THAT SUCKED! I quit for a few days from playing I was so pissed. Then I did it to someone else I was so pissed and man it was a great feeling. I was 14 and stupid then. Still a little stupid now.
Lets get real. How can new players come in and fall in love with this game when high and low levels alike are in the noobie areas? It wouldn't be so bad if this was an FPS and I could pick up a rifle and blow your head off as equally well as you could I... but lets face it, you have every skill they have but 3x better. There should always be a noobie island, where people can train as long as they like then get off into the real world. Noobies should be able to fight each other... sure, that's fine. Higher levels should not be allowed.
It happened in shadowbane. The higher levels got maxed out, and searching the forest was boring and tedious for them so they started going towards the more populated areas... the lvl 30 areas (75 max levels) and so on.
It's an exercise in frustration to the receiver, and when this server gets old enough that most people are high level, it's going to be an exercise in lost subscriptions as the old leave out of boredom and the new are too frustrated and hateful to play.
Why do you think UO brought in trammel? Ok trammel was too extreme, but they needed to do something and didn't know what because they were losing subscriptions by the thousands due to PKS killing newer players that aren't maxed out.
We as a community in any game we love should try to help nourish the new players so they stay and keep paying so we can get new content. It's a I scratch your back you scratch mine situation.
Mark my words, if they don't fix the noobie areas it's going to be the end of this game.
They also need to make skill gains based on the mob you fight... because it's rediculous to have high levels still taking over goblin spawns because they can max out on them... That's a whole nother story though.
PVP is great in the open world. You never know who you can trust, people will try to trick you... and pks will try to sneak up on you. It's the adrenaline rush, and what makes PVP fun is when you're on par with them and you kick their butt... man that's fun, to loot their corpse for a change. The only downside with PVP is like in noobie areas... PK's tend to not want fair fights, they want something easy to kill that's easy money or just easy to kill so they can boost their ego... That's not pvp in my opinion, that's just griefing.
Most games get this concept wrong and go too extreme one way or the other... You need a balance, so that it's fun for everyone.
Comments
"Yes I love pvp and don't mind them anymore. I remember when I did, it was back in UO when I got killed and my house key was looted off my corpse. THAT SUCKED! I quit for a few days from playing I was so pissed. Then I did it to someone else I was so pissed and man it was a great feeling."
Throughout your post i got the vibe that you like being on top and having an advantage over everyone else and you hate that someone is more skilled than you at a different sort of game. Darkfall is survival of the fittest (by fittest i mean first, eariest, fanbois who watched its development) The game is meant to be hard, what do you expect from a full loot full pvp game? To be left alone for 5 seconds and be able to do pve without getting ambushed? It won't happen
When you get a break in this game you will enjoy pking 'noobies' but you don't enjoy being a noobie. Get used to it or go play a different game.
LOL. I love that. This is a one-paragraph explanation of Human behavior. Exerting power over someone else reduces our own fear. That's why people are cruel.
I call it "big monkey, little monkey". Read the monkey house chapter from 'Stranger in a Strange Land". Great insight into why we do the things we do. It really opened my eyes. Brilliant.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So you basically want EVE (Empire Space).
With the new changes in skill gain you can be very competitive in 1 month of play, even more if you are in a group/clan. How much easier can it get I dont know
That's kind of the whole point. People will go play a different game. When enough of them do, the game will die.
The OP is right. Noobie zones should be safe from high level ganking.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That's kind of the whole point. People will go play a different game. When enough of them do, the game will die.
The OP is right. Noobie zones should be safe from high level ganking.
No!
"High level" characters should help noobs from other high level characters that wants to kill them.
Pretty simple actually : )
I'm going to agree that DF needs a Empire space type of centered continent.
If they did DF would have triple the players if not more. Just look at eve if Empire didnt exist they would have 30-50k players.
I know the DF guys will give me shit for that but pay no mind they just want to keep killing and looting players with low skills since fighting players as maxxed out as them is hard and noone in a sandbox game looks for a fair fight.
As the saying goes "If your in a fair fight, You did something wrong". And the most unfair is the newbie ganks and these guys love that shit.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Should, but won't. If they wanted a fair fight, they wouldn't be killing the other side's noobs.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Should, but won't. If they wanted a fair fight, they wouldn't be killing the other side's noobs.
So its the players that are stupid. Not the game itself : )
And as a noob you must seek out protection. Just as in jail! You will be someones bitch, even if you dont like it. Or maybe people today would not endure prison? Yes they do.
This was a bit of sarcasm. Im pretty tired and maybe you understand what i mean. As an adult you need to do thing that is not always funny. You just have to do it.
THIS!
EVE Online is way more hardcore than Darkfall but at least CCP offers options for all player types i.e. zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec space.
THIS!
EVE Online is way more hardcore than Darkfall but at least CCP offers options for all player types i.e. zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec space.
Play EVE then and leave zero-sec (darkfall) to the ones that can handle it.
When I have to roleplay being someone's bitch, I'll be changing games, thanks.
There are plenty of grim realities I have no interest in playing out in a game. My father died of cancer. It wasn't pretty, and it's not something I intend to go through in a game.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Typical reply, and usually followed up in a few months by "Hey! Where did everyone go?"
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Noobies should be able to fight each other... sure, that's fine. Higher levels should not be allowed.)
I stopped reading here. I dont read carebear post in any DF forum sorry .
Edit, i took the time to read the whole OP post and if the noob vs vet is your only problem, they fixed it already a week ago i think. Now, you cam max your character after a week to a month depend on the kind of player you are. If like me, you play 4 hours everyday everytime you comeback from school or work, you will max your character under a month. Join a clan and you will feel safe. Dont ask for a safe system please, communoty only can prevent you from being killed.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
man so today's my 3rd day playing DF> College doesn't start again until the 21st, so I've had some free time to play. I've got to say that this game is absolutely BRUTAL. I snuck up on a pk who turned out to be AFK and hit him with my rank 20 weapon (I had 40 great club skill lol) and after about 10 hits he was only down a smidgeon of life due to his armor. What suprised me is he came back online (lol) and nuked me like three or four times and I was dead. So mages get to wear the best armor? LOL What the hell. Man did I feel like I was completely wasting my time going melee... but I LOVE MELEE! They need to add in the starting tutorial GO MAGE OR ARCHER ONLY!
So I've got to say that given that experience I have a complete understanding as to why there's so many people saying they're quiting who just started in public chat. It'd be nice if mages couldn't cast with scale/plate armor on... but besides that, the grind has to be lessoned. Yes I knwo I'll get flamed for saying that. I'm sorry I've spent over 10 hours killing goblins and i'm sick and tired of killing them for one, only having 40 skill for another... and being completely useless against pks still!
Here's the advantages to less grind:
Less bandwidth hogging since people won't have to afk macro as long or play as long in each session. More big battles more cities to destroy more politics. More FAIR pvp and less monster killing. Faster game experience which will ultimately lead to more fun faster..
Anyway, I like the Eve set up and it WORKS (look at Eve it's successful) so I hope they take that route. Maybe put guard towers around monster spawns and such in the newbie areas.
Ok I got to reply, first off you did not hit someone ten times with a rank 20 two hander and only take off a "sliver" of health, thats just BS. If he was afk, did you attack his back?
The skill grind was just reduced, and I believe that in the next expansion or a patch shortly after, the devs will come to their senses and add in a skill cap.
This will be very good, for the economy and general PVP and PVE.
I will keep on trying, get your 2 hander up to 75 and get mastery to 25. I got my 2hand up from like 80-90 in 3-4 hours of farming mobs, sure I used stam pots and food and rested, but it was faster.
Get archery, asap, and get it to the 75 asap, and then get all the support skills( specially sharp shooter) to 50-75, and you will be able to take any mob in the game(at least all mobs that drop 450-1 gold.
Archery is a must starting off, specially til melee gets some love in the next expansion. Also remember this is a mmorpg with character development, dont expect to be able to own people playing for 6 months 10 hours a day in your first 3 days.
Get your stats up, mine alittle, stock pile some stuff, by the time you do all that, and get a melee/archery skill up to masteries, you will have the stats and skills and the aim/predictions you need to win pvp. Maybe find a small clan.
Also in the first 6 months of EVE is was a disaster just as bad as Darkfall, except darkfall had a lot more people looking at it.
mmo's are bigger these days with more of a fan base and more spectators.
I am sure after this expansion, guard towers will be out of player cities and maybe NPC cities and you will have NPC guards to defend players. I mean they are adding in local banking and NPC vendors for players, also more balances and a lot more needed fixes and additions( or stuff they didnt have time to put in at launch(or money)).
But I do agree, that a skill cap will be nice to have, so that way people will have diversity, and specific groups will be more important and stuff like that, like a calvary group, and a instant kill archery group with fire bows, or a chokepoint magic group( magic needs a nerf or they need to be made into glass cannons which is coming I am sure)
Either way what server are you on?
Should, but won't. If they wanted a fair fight, they wouldn't be killing the other side's noobs.
I bet some ppl will to that for a small fee, if u want to pay for a service there will be ppl to give that service
BestSigEver :P
All i can say is keep playing. The grind had been reduce like i said. Now, newb's can max their character under a week or a month even if you go to college. This is not long at all and if you have a full day free time, you will none stop raise your character and get to the max really quick. Even the no life grinders whine about it right now.
You may like Eve better, but Eve was an other indi company . They had their hard time too, their whiners, many players that say that it sux because it dont have that or this, but after all those years passes, Eve is now a perfect game.
DF try to do the same thing and they know that the OP mages are the problem. For the next expansion, they will stay focus on melee and archers and nerf mage so keep playing. The 9 october, the next expansion might go live unless its an other vapoware expansion.
If you dont know, DF update way faster then Eve when Eve started, so DF will beat the record of Eve to be perfect. Plus, DF world is so much bigger with 10 000 players and it can handle 100 vs 100. You dont get better then that.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
THIS!
EVE Online is way more hardcore than Darkfall but at least CCP offers options for all player types i.e. zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec space.
there are zone like this for example on alfar area are goblins on the zap tower range iron nodes(15) inside the capital city any n00b can get the basic income
BestSigEver :P
I don't know some of the skills and such definately seem slow and like I'd need to macro to ever max them without going insane.
Examples are stats... str, vit, etc... three days of actual playing with even probably 10 hours of me watching tv while I mine (to try to get my str up) on top of that, I've only gained 3 strength. I'm assuming the max is 100 like in UO, and so this worries me.
At nearly 50 great club mastery and 60 mining I find myself slowly losing interest. I'll stick the month out however, even though I'm actually not enjoying myself at this point it's not necessarily the grind it's how you go about the grind and it's not fun. The AI is sad and the combat is annoying because as a melee it's very inadvantageous since I accidently hit people when in groups and such. Oh well enough complaining, I'll ride the month out I payed 50 bucks for this...
They really need to lower the price, it's way too high for the quality you get. Should be like eve, 14.99.
THIS!
EVE Online is way more hardcore than Darkfall but at least CCP offers options for all player types i.e. zero-sec, low-sec, high-sec space.
Play EVE then and leave zero-sec (darkfall) to the ones that can handle it.
LOL! Eve is way more hardcore than DF. We can "Handle" FFAPVP just fine. Eve gives people options.
I enjoy DF but if AV would just expand the game more and make it so its appealing to different playstyles it would be a much better game.
I understand that you love ganking newbs, its fun to fight and have near zero chance to lose but the players on the recieving end leave the game and.... well, DFs sub 10k numbers tell the story.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Sadly it's really true. The server's dead. There's less than 100 people on in each race at any given time I bet. For one cluster server it's really quite sad...
to add more flame to the fire, UO has a bigger game world. I think Shadowbane had a simular size, and I think WoW might have a bigger game world as well (considering the expansions as well).
So in all honesty, the world's not that big. in UO to run from one end to the other would have taken more than 24 hours. In Darkfall I ran north to south in about 4 hours clear across the main continent. Which means roughly 8 hours of running is required to fully run across the globe including water. That's a really small world, considering the movement speed in DF is sad on foot... which is how I traveled.
I think I got jacked 50 bucks. God damnitt. I come on here and read a bunch of positive responses, people building it up to be like UO and SB and it's not even the shadow of either of those two games. Ya I admit the server runs stable and the twitch based combat is a dream come true for an MMORPG style of play but everything else is shit.
I want to know when an MMORPG is going to make crafting more than just a bar that goes across the screen?
Why not have us play mini games? Hammer on a sword or piece of armor? Then have to put it in the fire for a decent amount of time depending on the material?
It just seems so lazy when they put those bars in.
I think I'm going to conclude that no game developers will ever get this concept right.
Sorry to hear that man, a lot of people have been taken in by the propoganda certain fanbois spread. Theyre unwilling to admit theyve already been defeated and continue to spew vile shills for the game in hopes theyll bamboozle more people into their dying little world.
You cant trust what the fanbois here say, theyre motivated by emotion and attachment to Darkfall.
You also can't trust what the haters say. Fanbois look for other people to backup there opinion of the game. Haters look for people to backup there view on the game.
As I have heard many people say before. I don't care if you hate Darkfall. I don't care if you scream to everyone in the world how terrible the game is. I don't care if you shout it over and over and over and over in my face. I enjoy the game. No matter how much you (I use the term you to indicate haters not specifically you) tell me I should hate the game because you do, I will still enjoy it.
It has nothing to do with being a fanboi. It has nothing to do with not being able to see all the faults. It has nothing to do with pretending there are no problems. It has everything to do with the fact that when I log on I have fun.
I feel sorry for the haters who just can't get over the fact that there are people out there with different tastes to them. The whole 'go back to wow' responce doesn't really mean go back to wow. It simply means stop telling me what I should and shouldn't ennjoy. I will enjoy what I enjoy and you should go find something you enjoy.
You also can't trust what the haters say. Fanbois look for other people to backup there opinion of the game. Haters look for people to backup there view on the game.
As I have heard many people say before. I don't care if you hate Darkfall. I don't care if you scream to everyone in the world how terrible the game is. I don't care if you shout it over and over and over and over in my face. I enjoy the game. No matter how much you (I use the term you to indicate haters not specifically you) tell me I should hate the game because you do, I will still enjoy it.
It has nothing to do with being a fanboi. It has nothing to do with not being able to see all the faults. It has nothing to do with pretending there are no problems. It has everything to do with the fact that when I log on I have fun.
I feel sorry for the haters who just can't get over the fact that there are people out there with different tastes to them. The whole 'go back to wow' responce doesn't really mean go back to wow. It simply means stop telling me what I should and shouldn't ennjoy. I will enjoy what I enjoy and you should go find something you enjoy.
There are a number of people on these forums who have been taken in by the positive spins the fanbois have been putting on the game. And a good number of them wish they hadnt listened and never bought Darkfall. If I save one person from wasting their money on this game, I feel good about it. Its not about fans and haters, its about not letting a shady company continue to use its meager player base as advertisement. Darkfall is already done bleeding out players. The population of the game speaks to the quality of it. You cannot argue that.
There are also a good number of people who have said that even though they thought the game would be crap because of all the hate some people spew on the forums they bought the game anyway. When they got in the game they realised it might have a lot of problems but wasn't anywhere near as bad as the haters made out. In fact many of them are having an absolute bal and really enjoying the game.
That was my point. You may well hate the game and feel the need to tell everyone how much you hate it. You may well under represent Darkfalls good bits and over do its negatives (which most haters do) but that is no different from the fanbois who love the game and overplay the good side over the bad.
Just as you protect someone from being taken in by a fanboi you also stop someone else who might really enjoy the game from playing it.
if there is one thing we can all see from reading the forums its thaat your opinion really means very little as does mine. What you hate others love and to try to belittle someone else for having another opinion is just crazy.
As for population, I just don't see the problems TBH. Sure the servers are pretty empty but when I look at how many people there are between the US and EU server I don't think that the overall population is that small compared to launch. There are defo less people but not 'that' many less. Compared to Warhammer and AOC the population % loss is a LOT less. Sure they started from a much smaller base, but they also built the game for aa lot less and made more money per copy (no manufacturing of boxes, publication costs and retail shops cut). The real question is, is the game heading in the right direction, very few people can say its not.