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So does i16 fix the i14 blunder?
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Member UncommonPosts: 516
What I'm wondering is - is the game still an AE farm game or can I start playing it again? I topic'd i14 in another post because the release of it was the primary reason I stopped playing CoX.
They need to gimp the AE exp and find another way to reward people who create awesome maps.
Did they? What are they adding to help with the fact that the game has become: login, make awesome looking charactor, join ae farm, realize this is all the game is now, quit game...
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Sadly, nothing has really been done to change that. AE still gives the same amount of exp and there are still a lot of people who just powerlevel characters all day long. That story someone told in another thread about the Peacebringer who didn't know there were other zones in the game other than Atlas Park was easy to believe because it is still very possible for something like that to happen.
i16 does nothing to change this as far as I can tell.
However, the number of people who are either bored with the AE or pissed off at it seems to be increasing. So it is possible to find people doing other stuff now. Hopefully this means thing will "even out" in the near future.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Nope People are still preoccupied with filling all there character slots with 50's, I actully was in the Atlas AE Building Working on my Mish. and someone said " True Veteran Player LFT!!! Check my Bio I have 12 Lvl 50's" So I looked at his Veteran Badges and he has the 3 month Badge! Since when are you a True Vet after only 3 Months??? It is a Shame : ( To Hell with AE I Say!!!
Of course, I16 isn't out of closed testing yet and there's always stuff not in the initial media announcements that makes it into these issues. So nobody can really know until it goes into open testing (well, aside from the closed testers, and they're not supposed to be telling).
Of course, I16 isn't out of closed testing yet and there's always stuff not in the initial media announcements that makes it into these issues. So nobody can really know until it goes into open testing (well, aside from the closed testers, and they're not supposed to be telling).
Yea but, I think they would've announced major changes... Why would you keep a positive change a secret?
Of course, I16 isn't out of closed testing yet and there's always stuff not in the initial media announcements that makes it into these issues. So nobody can really know until it goes into open testing (well, aside from the closed testers, and they're not supposed to be telling).
Yea but, I think they would've announced major changes... Why would you keep a positive change a secret?
Because some folks wouldn't have considered it a positive change. Mostly because it's a small update about the XP custom enemies give, it seems to have fallen under the whole 'other features' blanket.
I direct you to the patch notes. The pertinent bit is pretty much just this.
# Enemies created using the Standard setting will reward 75% of normal experience.
# Enemies created using the Hard and Extreme setting will reward 100% of normal experience.
# The total amount of experience an enemy is worth is split evenly between their two powerset choices. Their primary set adds an amount to the experience, and then the secondary set adds an amount.
It's not a complete fix for the AE issue, but it does somewhat address the issue. I kind of hope they continue to tweak things though.
There's another fix also. It makes it so that if you try to spawn all bosses or all minions, you get diminished rewards. To get full rewards the group must contain minions, lts, and bosses.
Well at least they are working on it - but, still at this point with every current player having slots filled with 50's... I don't think I will be returning to this one.
They need to take a hint from WoW - when it releases new content your old gear although powerful, becomes obsolete... Hense new players are able to be competitive.
WoW also moves the bar further back, so new players have a larger gap between them and the old players keeping them from being as competitive.
Also, I'm not really sold on 'every current player having slots filled with 50s', mostly since it's pretty untrue. I'm not really sure what people having 50s has to do with anything, especially because of the ease of teaming across levels in the game.
I think its gotten better. I avoid AE for the most part and have found good pickup teams as soon as I log in. I do feel sorry for those who feel the need to PL their way to having full lvl 50's. You miss out on some of the truely awesome parts of the game. I remember my first Hammy raid or my first Rikti Mother ship raid....my first TF. I have four lvl 50's and I can look at them with pride knowing that they got there with a lot of sweat, debt and tears
New patch notes out about AE, check the development forums.
Apparently they're reducing experience values for AE bosses to 33% (1/3 normal xp) and lieutenants and minions to around half.
i16 can't come soon enough.
The i16 rules for AE basically sum up like this:
If your map doesn't have all 3 enemy levels, reduced rewards.
If you have custom mobs and they are Normal difficulty, reduced rewards. (High and Extreme difficulty get regular xp.)
And one big reason people favored AE aside from farming was that it was easier to form teams by pushing everyone to the same level instead of SKing. Now that happens on any mission, so AE isn't an advantage.
However, farms won't stop, they'll just move somewhere else. The problem with AE was that it pushed farms right in our faces. They were the easiest thing to join, so everyone did. But farming didn't start with i14 and it won't end with i16. And in a sense I can't blame people. The "endgame content" is inventions, which require money or recipes, both of which are easiest to get by farming. There's nothing else to do, really.
So they've used the game to point people in a direction, then spent all this effort to keep them from heading there in a straight line. I'll be happy to see regular mission teams back, certainly. But I'm unhappy that they've spent so many issues doing things that don't add to the play experience, and now they much of another issue going backwards.
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WoW also moves the bar further back, so new players have a larger gap between them and the old players keeping them from being as competitive.
Also, I'm not really sold on 'every current player having slots filled with 50s', mostly since it's pretty untrue. I'm not really sure what people having 50s has to do with anything, especially because of the ease of teaming across levels in the game.
Well sold or not it is/was happening like that - 50's in all slots. I was doing it too - but, that got boring pretty quick.. hense I don't subscribe anymore. Maybe the AE just showed how shallow the game is - the end game content is pretty darn weak in comparison to WoW.
WoW doesn't push the bar back either - not like CoV - WoW makes it so the newbs can get the same items or comparable pretty quickly. They give more experience now to lower levels to help them catch up - they release new content all the time that has updated gear, making the old gear outdated pretty quick. WoW is more friendly to newbs that most games ... hense the 50 gazillion subscribers (of which I am NOT one of currently - games that make it too easy on newbs turn me off even when I'm the newb..)
WoW also moves the bar further back, so new players have a larger gap between them and the old players keeping them from being as competitive.
Also, I'm not really sold on 'every current player having slots filled with 50s', mostly since it's pretty untrue. I'm not really sure what people having 50s has to do with anything, especially because of the ease of teaming across levels in the game.
Well sold or not it is/was happening like that - 50's in all slots. I was doing it too - but, that got boring pretty quick.. hense I don't subscribe anymore. Maybe the AE just showed how shallow the game is - the end game content is pretty darn weak in comparison to WoW.
WoW doesn't push the bar back either - not like CoV - WoW makes it so the newbs can get the same items or comparable pretty quickly. They give more experience now to lower levels to help them catch up - they release new content all the time that has updated gear, making the old gear outdated pretty quick. WoW is more friendly to newbs that most games ... hense the 50 gazillion subscribers (of which I am NOT one of currently - games that make it too easy on newbs turn me off even when I'm the newb..)
CoX does this too, sorta. It's been around since launch, but there's that whole no debt to level 10 thing. And they added that "patrol experience" to help minimize debt while increasing XP accumulation. And wasn't the XP required to level from something like 1-20 reduced?
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The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
AE farming has been going on since the start of the game.
i14 didn't start it.
People were AE farming 5 years ago.
AE came out this year, so your statement is incorrect. However if you meant "People were farming 5 years ago" that would be true.
Yet not until last year (I'm a 60mo vet) did farming become a serious issue. And the reason it became an issue is that the invention system started a 'need' for massive $$$$ to afford the better, rare, desirable bonus sets.
The AE system implementation moved farming right into the entry zones (Atlas Park/Mercy Island) and initially were so flawed that a character could be taken to the highest level in extreme short order. AE was just a wakeup call to recognize the serious issues of CoX.
The issues that CoX now presents, limitations of the whole character powersets system. Unlike games like WoW, power selections can quickly be capped, weapon/powers aren't upgraded only amended via enhancements(cappable quickly) NPCs are quickly outleveled and become worthless as targets. Further, CoX is very zone based in play with zones that require reloading instead of being seamless movement. You could fit the entire CoX universe in a few sections of the WoW terrrain.
I've shelved my account, but don't forsee the major seed change coming to the CoX franchise and will probably sell it if the next couple issues don't address these serious issues.
i16 may solve the farming problem. The community has definately deteriorated, but the community that remains in the zones--while small--is quality.
People are just happy to group up with players who take as much pride in what they are doing as they do. I was in a group out at Talos yesterday that was just awesome, but that's becausewewere slugging it out in the zones and knew how to play. Sometimes we'll get the occasional guy from the AE. They usually aren't that good with what they have, whether it's PvE or PvP. But they learn though, and once they learn that playing out in the zones is so much more fun, they seldom go back to the AE.
The biggest problem I see is in SG's. The incentive there is for characters and alts to level quickly, so peer pressure oftentimes dictates that the others be there to help farm . I have a kinetics character that is constantly asked to help out coalition members in the AE when no other kinetics are on. I'd rather not do SB, ID and FS all day just to farm bosses, but seeing as how the competition is doing it, we have to do it too.
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I agree. There was farming way before AE. AE just magnified the farming so much that the rest of the games content was pointless to do unless you just wanted to see it. I wouldn't say AE ruined the game, but relying on players for content this was bound to happen and it was like there were no precautions for pling when it was first released, almost as if they honestly thought people wouldn't use it to powerlevel. I can kinda see why as in a game like this it's so easy to do a mission over and over to farm it, so it's hard to set rules given the power to create whatever you wanted with AE. As for lowering xp, it's probably the only real solution to be done without taking away the AE's mechanics that was initially given to the player. Over the years I've noticed they're pretty slow in reacting to powerleveling as if they know it's what the majority of people do in game and know they'd lose alot of those people if something were done. Take the wolves/freaks farms for example, it took forever just for them to add a time limit to the mission. The wolves farm went on for at least the duration of creating/releasing a new issue, which was at least 6 months. So yeah the game has had powerleveling issues for as long as Peregrine Island were introduced. Farming is only natural in any MMO, not just for xp, but for influence too in this games case.
As for Issue 16, a little rant:
I really wish for every issue they release, that they release a new good task force like Cimerora because that TF was awesome when it came out. Every issue should have an awesome TF. C'mon NCSoft, more CONTENT please. No offense to the hardcore players that always wanted this, but honestly, I could care less what color my powers are. The game seriously needs new CONTENT. Changing colors of powers seems like something that should've been added years ago, why now so close to the CO release.
Yea farming happens in every game but AE farming is the worst because it robs new players of the opportunity to group and see the game.. Before AE you HAD to explore the game and see all they developed or a good amount of it anyway due to the zones being different levels but, the AE makes it to where everyone goes to one building and levels - it's just kinda pointless to have all this scenary and stuff to be ruined by some custom crapola like the AE.
It's a lame thing that had potential - you know they could make it to where you have to be level 50 to make maps in the AE...
That's a better idea than gimping exp in my opinion..
This thread really hasn't answered the question as i am interested in the state of this game too. Now that i16 is released is grouping still dead? I was going to resubscribe since CO doesn't have group content, which i sorely miss in a game. So I guess i16 didn't really make sweeping changes, just minor changes? So the farmers will still find ways to farm, sucking the life out of the game, is that fair to assume? If I want to find a group based game should I move along?
What is your definition of group based? A game where there are a lot of people to group with? Or a game where grouping is nessary to progress like DDO or FFXI? Or something else...?
i16 has been out for less than a week so its hard to say as of yet how much it will accomplish in terms of dealing with farming. What I do know is that they fixed a lot of the exploits that people were using in the AE to farm (stuff like maps which spawned all bosses or all LTs) so that will cut back a LOT on the sheer amount of farming that was going on through the AE. does it mean the end of farming completely in CoX? Probably not. But if I had to guess I would guess that it is going to improve things a great deal.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
With i16 set and out now, I will say yes, it absolutely did.
The AE is still useable (the original i16 approach would have killed it I think, but they refined), and I'm sure there are people farming on it. But there were 3 key changes:
1) Gimped custom-characters or boss-only (or minion-only for that matter) AE stories have reduced rewards, removing that incentive for using AE farms.
2) Sidekicking/Exemplaring is changed. AE used to be the only way to make a team work if the levels were spread all over. Now every team can work like that - you exemplar down to the level of the mission (or sk up to 1 below it) and everyone gets xp up to 50 even when exemplared.
3) Mission difficulty changed. If you want your mission set for 8 people, you don't need teammates or padders. Just go to the Fortunata and change your difficult to 8 people's worth.
The result is that when picking what enemies to fight, you get no benefit from custom-made groups in AE. If you just want a team, you can do any content anywhere with the same formation benefits as the AE teams had (and better rewards). And if you want to farm or challenge yourself, you don't need to recruit players to get the count up.
So if a farmer is still going, he's soloing a contact's mission in PI, rather than grabbing everyone availble for team in Atlas. And that's not just theory, we've been seeing that happen.
(There are still a few people of any level who go to Atlas to find a team, which is a bad habit they'll shake eventually, but bad habits die hard.)
If anything, Taskforces are the new farms. A lot of people are running Manticores and LGTFs since you can get 30-40 merits in under an hour. I personally am trying to get the 66-merit Positron down to 90 minutes. But those aren't so bad, certainly they're better than AE farming to 50 and never leaving Atlas.
Currently playing:
DC Universe
Planetside 2
Magic Online
Simunomics, the Massive Multiplayer Economic Simulation Game. Play for free.