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The Modern MMORPG
Its the same old
The modern MMORPG is a sterilized "family" game with zero room for anything but hotkeys, titles and items
Seriously, after playing EVE for a couple of months, games like these make my stomach turn upside down.
Its the only game where you can lose literally everything, you can even lose territory...
(an example of how to completely and utterly lose in an MMO http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/71550 )
You can spy for other people, and steal while youre at it
and noone will raise an eyebrow
One step in the wrong direction and (as a flight commander) you can be responsible for setting your alliance back billions of in-game cash, because you died at the hands of the enemy.
Yea thats right, you can completely and utterly lose
People have cried, screamed on vent, bragged on the forums, written propaganda and lost everything in battles with actual meaning
And you can do so, because you can, because you have a choice and because its a natural part of a multiplayer game
EVE has a couple of unspoken rules:
1. Dont sit in what you cant afford to lose
2. Dont fight a battle you cant win
3. Half the fight is won by words alone, by demoralizing and sabotaging the enemy
So far, Aion is just WoW all over again
Really, whats new here? can someone tell me whats different in this game from wow or warhammer?
I quit wow because grinding pvp and grinding pve for items is a dead, deflated and incredibly repetitive concept
I'd much rather feel part of something
I will however give aion a chance, but i felt i had to say it like it is, that this game lacks half the fight
The fight of words, player owned territory and wrong choices (choices with meaning and consequence)
There are enough casual games out there (such as solitaire and yahtzee)
Oh, and i forgot to mention that once you make "good guys vs bad guys" faction A vs faction B
You suddenly face the problem of balance and side rumors
Such as "the Dark side is rumored to be better at PvP and the Good side is rumored to be better at PvE"
- further fuelling the imbalance already present
Written in stone A vs B is always a bad thing, story aside...
Comments
Ok so we're past the choices, the teamplay, consequences and factioning stuff
Next up is levelling
Why even have levelling at all? Whats the point? To familiarize you with your character? You don't need to grind the same mobs hundreds of hours to do that... Or to play through a story, if thats what its all about.
EVE has skillsystem where you queue up skills in order, and they automatically skill up in a set amount of time
So, after maybe a month you'll be good to go depending on what choices you made, not how much you played
Some people won't be a big fan of this, I can respect that of course, but I have a strong distate for levelling and grinding.
I really do.
Would it really be an RPG without levels then? When instead skills have their own levels, but characters dont have an overall/current level? Yes it would. Minus the grinding.
I don't know what else to say other than, I probably wont be making max level in Aion when it comes out
Grinding is just not acceptable anymore.. It was when I played my first MMO and everything was fun and new.
This isnt new, its just injury to insult..
Thanks for reading, and see you all in Aion!
Eve is not a grind, but rather a waiting game. If you know how to play there's no way to bypass the 6 months to a year it may take to get your new character into the ship you want him in. I played for about a year and a half -- thank god a friend who didn't play anymore lent me his very good 42m skill point HAC pilot (maxxed gunnery skills) which I turned into a Command Ship / Dreadnaught pilot. When I quit I donated him to a friend in the alliance. That's the only way to go -- otherwise EVE is a drag for the first (at least) 6 months.
Don't even get me started about how big of a time sink it can be. Sitting at gatecamps hours upon hours to pop a few scout shuttles piloted by the alts of enemies waiting for an opportunity to get their mains in. Not to mention 500 person fleet battles that lagged to a halt and crashed server nodes. For all the sitting around and waiting though - it was *very* fun to enter enemy territory with a HAC / Command / Logistics / Cov-ops gang of 10, and have someone undock a carrier and have a good heart pumping fight.
I will add though... that was a 1 in a 100 chance. To even have an enemy undock. Plus.. if they undocked anything we didn't think we could take.. we were out like hotcakes too.
I had a conversation with a gentleman one day, and he told me how he played EVE and explained to me how it was the biggest risk vs reward game he has played. He went on to admit that he bought ships online for $200 ~$300 bucks a pop, and when they got destroyed he would go into a furious rage of anger. While losing thousands of dollars to this game he finally stopped cold-turkey one day.
I thought that guy was nuts.
I also have fun reading about the huge scams EVE players like to post about ~trying to top each other. I think the amount, if I can remember correctly was around $16,000? worth of RMT that was swindled through multiple backstabbings and double/triple crosses. This all on a single server. Pretty damn hardcore insane if you ask me. =O
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer is no joke cliche!
Yes, and the problem with EVE is just that. To alot of people it's not a game -- it's life. You mess with them in game and you've messed with their life (possibly their main source of income). I know a couple of the big alliances had heads of Treasury and Finance that were actually CFO's during the day or big-wig accountants, stock brokers, hedge fund managers, etc.
Because the game was played both inside the game and out - there was a very gray line of what was acceptable and what was not. The case of espionage you speak of stemmed because the player in question was initially befriended outside the game then lied and cheated his way over VOIP with this person to become thier closest friend. I couldn't do that to another person after hearing their voice and playing with them.. One of my better friends I have been playing online with for almost 6 years and I couldn't imagine how hurt I would be if he back-stabbed me like that when we were playing EVE.
Not to mention they destroyed a unique ship.. one of 2 in the game (the Imperial Apocolypse). The fact is.. that EVE is so hardcore and takes so much time.. it really is part of your life after a while. Not many people could imagine literally sitting for 10 hours at their computer LITERALLY doing nothing except basically chatting over VOIP with the other 30-50 people at your gatecamp. I much more enjoyed getting deep into enemy territory and chasing / being chased / escaping gatecamps in a tight-knit group of 6-12 people.
Eve is a great game.. and if it didn't take me 6 months to a year to get a toon trained up to rudimentary PVP capabilities I'd probably resub and go troll 0.0 with my ol' buddies.
Yup, I hear you, and i even agree with you
But, regardless if you reread, while im stating some of the good points of EVE and bad points of Aion -
make no mistake, both products have a range of annoyances each to his/her own, and I guess in retrospect it seemed
like i was favoring EVE over the other, when in fact im not... All in all, I wish the modern MMO was a good mix of everything good and much less bad.
If we were to have a vote, who in favor of endless item grind, levelling, and so on versus something that is less about personal repetition and more about communal and multiplayer activity?
At least on the EVE forums players arent pretending they care just out of spite... They actually have a huge stake in the warfare and something to lose, and its a motivation that no game can ever be without
At least to me its the sole reason Im writing this
Maybe the right person will read it, and in 4-5 years I can get a game worth my time again
Until then
Yes, and the problem with EVE is just that. To alot of people it's not a game -- it's life. You mess with them in game and you've messed with their life (possibly their main source of income). I know a couple of the big alliances had heads of Treasury and Finance that were actually CFO's during the day or big-wig accountants, stock brokers, hedge fund managers, etc.
Because the game was played both inside the game and out - there was a very gray line of what was acceptable and what was not. The case of espionage you speak of stemmed because the player in question was initially befriended outside the game then lied and cheated his way over VOIP with this person to become thier closest friend. I couldn't do that to another person after hearing their voice and playing with them.. One of my better friends I have been playing online with for almost 6 years and I couldn't imagine how hurt I would be if he back-stabbed me like that when we were playing EVE.
Not to mention they destroyed a unique ship.. one of 2 in the game (the Imperial Apocolypse). The fact is.. that EVE is so hardcore and takes so much time.. it really is part of your life after a while. Not many people could imagine literally sitting for 10 hours at their computer LITERALLY doing nothing except basically chatting over VOIP with the other 30-50 people at your gatecamp. I much more enjoyed getting deep into enemy territory and chasing / being chased / escaping gatecamps in a tight-knit group of 6-12 people.
Eve is a great game.. and if it didn't take me 6 months to a year to get a toon trained up to rudimentary PVP capabilities I'd probably resub and go troll 0.0 with my ol' buddies.
About that, Im not in favor of 6 month training times at all
But it should be endless and expand slowly...
Dont get me wrong, but its peoples own choices what they do, and they can choose to have a high stake in something,
and they can live and die (in-game) by their consequences, and they can fight with that much higher motivation than someone with nothing to lose.
It's something that can be a big part of a game that isn't everything about the game.
Live or die doesnt have to be everything in a game just like it isnt in EVE, but, as a friend once told me: Why would you want to die of boredom in empire when you can die and scream and dream about it in 0.0
And id like to ammend: - with scores of other players depending on each other, just to win, because losing isnt an option
Its like the Level 2 of MMOs
(Where the old school mmos had the fun in grinding, levelling and raiding)
..and that was another downfall of EVE. Because of the high stakes and the fact that the developers were allowed to play the game as being part of large alliances and were later exposed to be cheating... was a huge deal for me. How can you compete with people that have access to databases of information and will manipulate that data for their alliance's gain.
It always made me wonder.. those little bugs after every patch (all the towers going offline allowing an alliance to infiltrate another's space and cause billions of isk worth of damage) ... were those staged? Were developers purposely messing with mechanics of the game to serve agendas in the game.. or to make it more interesting? I mean.. I know for a fact that the guys that started EVE Online were hardcore gankers in UO, it'd make sense.
Once I had that stuck in my head.. I couldn't get out -- how to you *win* in a game that might be *unwinnable* because the developers are screwing with shit behind the scenes.
You simply cannot. The game is compromised. gg
I'm not masochistic enough for this thread. Am I the only one here who doesn't mind playing a game where you don't get butt lewted every time you die? FYI, full loot, ect, will always forever be an extreme niche in the gaming community.
I am glad the games that have full loot ,have it. and I am equally happy with the games that don't have full loot for the sake of not butt lewting all the players. Make a choice with your MMO, but don't pout when one doesn't have your dream features.
That's the same as if I was to log into EVE and bitch to the community that penalties are too high. "You just don't, and if you do, you run the risk of actually being a complete idiot"
Why is this in the Aion forums?
/shrug
EvE is indeed a great game for risk vs. reward. Being a long time UO player I was really hoping to like EvE when it came out. Unfortunately I couldn't get used to the "space" combat and realized I wanted to play a character not just a space ship.
I tried it again years later with the same result.
Until someone develops a game like UO, or EvE, in a setting that I actually want to play in I'll have fun in games that are not quite as complex, but appeal to me.
Aion being the newest one to hit the market.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Yea I was just discussing the differences between EVE and Aion, and the good and bad for each of them
To be honest, Im not the biggest space fan, but the suspense in playing EVE is more worth to me than the endless grinding in Aion
Suffice to say, ill be a happy man when someone makes an MMO with (as you say) the correct setting AND polish AND some suspense involved
Its just not good enough to autorun around pressing 1 2 3 combinations while the biggest suspense is:
1 who gets what when raid boss dies
2 who gets to loot the flower on the ground first
3 the group who can kill players faster than another group will win a "battleground" because really, you will never actually die
It's just a temporary teleportation with a timer attached. now run back and demoralize the other players who already killed you with your presence yet again, and show them how much meaning killing someone in aion is
You said that EVE had too much pressure attached for you? Well thats only in the low security zones
You can and always could stay in high security, and at some point, just like me, youll feel the need to spicen things up...
Aion doesnt have anything to spice things up.. its just another MMO, and I guess thats why i made this thread to begin with
I think this will be my last reply in this thread,
see you all in Aion, if you arent already