People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Xfire can't be used as a statistical factor in anything. I'ts not used by everyone. But I see what you are saying. It shows the reflection of subs because of the use of Xfire with those games.
Everyone brings up some good points on both sides. Very interesting.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
The answer is simple. And proven by Aion itself btw. The positions on Xfire are purely western based playings. Look to the number of players in our wester (english spoken internet) : WOW 5.5 M, EVE 300K, Lotro 180K Now look at the number of XFire players (not playing hours) with a 3 way checking point. It fits for the above games. It shows an extremely accurate number of axtive players with a changing on line 24/7 sample of a few million players on ... PC's. It showed 250 K players for Aion in Beta. It showed around 125 ... 150K players in CO. It shows 80K war atm it shows 70 K AOC atm. Compare it with the servers of these games (on average 10K per server) and you have it all. http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/ Problem is that games ABOVE the 1000 Xfire players are more accurate. Below 500 Xfire players the errors get bigger in the sampled rates. Xfire ALWAYS predicted the trends and the averae players logging in. The sample is simply TOO big and ON line 14/7
If it's western based great, i have absolutely no problem there.
3 months from now I will want to know the xfire statistics, western based ofc, of Aion as well as some other games ofc, and I will ask you personally to analize it
I just hope you dont present us with 11M for wow, because you know those are not western only numbers
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
fucks sake, if you dont want to play WoW, or games like it, dont play WoW, or games like it. THere are fucking hundreds out there. Not everything is like WoW, stop jumping from AAA to AAA being spoonfed and you might just magically find what you are looking for.
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
Up to this point I didn't mind what you were saying now I think you're just full of yourself. Just because you have different expectations of what you want in a game doesn't allow you to go around slagging others for what they want. As for delineating what is a vet and what is not, it's not your place to say one way or the other.
This is yet another tiersome thread about how a popular game ruined MMOs, bovine fecal mater. Games evolve, and WoW has pushed the MMO into the mainstream. The good news is that smaller independent shops will be innovative and try different things, because they know that the market is huge and their games may be sustainable. People whining about WoW are incredibly tedious, and so called "vets" are even more so.
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
Up to this point I didn't mind what you were saying now I think you're just full of yourself. Just because you have different expectations of what you want in a game doesn't allow you to go around slagging others for what they want. As for delineating what is a vet and what is not, it's not your place to say one way or the other.
This is yet another tiersome thread about how a popular game ruined MMOs, bovine fecal mater. Games evolve, and WoW has pushed the MMO into the mainstream. The good news is that smaller independent shops will be innovative and try different things, because they know that the market is huge and their games may be sustainable. People whining about WoW are incredibly tedious, and so called "vets" are even more so.
Honestly I disagree with most of these guys saying WoW ruined the genre. I put the blame on the copycats.
The reason Im in this thread was due to an asshat that started ripping older games. Any vet that considers WoW a step up in the evolution of the genre is totally clueless.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now? Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Uhhh, done trolling WOW=) The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself. I was easily more immersed in WOW than EQ by the way, because WOW's world is FAR more well designed than EQ's flat, empty boring fields and deserts. The character design was also generic and ugly even at that time....not to mention the horrible animation.
Take 1000 people who never touched a MMO before, then let them each play EQ and WOW right after one another. Then listen to their opinions. These people don't have a clue what a MMO is. How much or your life savings would you put down on EQ capturing MORE people than WOW? How many of those 1000 would prefer EQ? 1%? 2% maybe? NONE! Now you're in the shoes of a REAL developer, not an armchair developer. How much would you gamble? The more faith you put in EQ "immersing" people in todays market, the dumber a person and business man you'd be.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now? Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that.
As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now? Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that.
As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
Ignorant elitism at its worst. Please do us all a favor, stop generalizing to the extreme and stating untruths.
The WoW game-world is large with a lot of varied content to explore. Leveling, however, is extremely quick these days, meaning most of the players will miss the bulk of the content. You did not see but a fraction of the content in the end-game PvE content of the earlier MMOs either.
Gear was as coveted in EQ, UO, and all the other early MMOs. What has changed is how easy 'top-level' gear is to attain. If you take a look, under 1% of the player base are wearing gear from the hardest and most rewarding hard-mode encounters. What Blizzard has done with WoW is making extremely good gear easily available to most of the player-base but still retaining the exclusive status of the most coveted items.
Don't get me wrong, I do not think WoW is the best game ever. In fact I am burned out on the game and quitting when my subscription runs out next month. However, there is nothing better out there, and it certainly is not the accessibility of the game that has turned me off.
It is easy for any jackass to point their accusing finger at current games. WoW is the pop music of MMOs, there are cliche groups out there who hate it deeply, and are hell bent on destroying the game and letting everyone else know how bad it is. This sort of arrtogant intolerance I find funny, just like hardcore metal fans turning up the hate on let's say Nickelback for being sell-outs. Sure I might not like the Black Eyed Peas, but hey, I do not feel the need to start a trash talking campaign against them on the internet. Besides, after a few cold ones some of their tunes actually get my out-of-shape gamer butt moving on the dancefloor.
"Where is the versatility?" "Where is my next gen sandbox MMO?" "Where is the truly creative content?" I want answers to these questions too. Just because many of these aspects are missing from WoW do not make it a bad game, however. WoW if anything has been good for the MMO industry. If any other studio can produce such a quality product they'll have a hit on their hands, catering to millions of customers, isntead of thousands. How is that degrdadation?
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
QFT
WoW is the most played MMORPG on the market because it is the most fun for the vast majority of players. There are so many people on these forums who act as though WoW is complete trash, but there is not a single other game on the market that comes ANYWHERE close to WoW in terms of polish and appeal.
A lot of you don't like the game, we get that... but that is your personal preference, not a failing in Blizzard's model. If you don't like this type of game, go support one of the alternative titles that are out there. If they can't capture your attention or feel too much like WoW, that is the fault of THEIR developers, not Blizzard.
WoW made playing an mmo socially exceptable be thankful for that. Blame developers for the crap games that keep coming out not WoW
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
Now you're just sounding like a ego-inflated, condescending jackass that's shooting back venom-laced tripe just for the hell of it. I told you his creation date to show you that juuust maybe he played something other than WOW, therefore giving his opinion just as much weight as yours (obviously flew by you).
I gave my opinion about WoW in regards to how it may effect the mentality of future players that my not understand that it's not all about the gear grind they are subjecting themselves to in WoW and how Blizzard devs are now taking steps to correct this trend/line-of-thinking among their player base. (another one that zoomed by)
Yet you still feel the need to bark about how terrible some of the features are in WoW and how players will now replace one type of grind for another....spare me the straw grasping. Point is that you don't/didn't enjoy WoW and you don't plan on supporting any MMO that bears any resemblance to the game in any way/shape/form. Ok we get that, now try to get just a liiiiittle pass that part and to the place where we all do agree and move on from there, shall we?
We all agree that the industry will eventually move forward and if WoW can get some of it's players to forget about:
PvP being negative
Gear grinds
Levels as a means status
Then when that new sandbox mmo does come out, those are 3 battles we won't have to worry about. So now that we have that out of the way why don't you grow a pair and restrain from posting how you feel and post how you think about the topic at hand.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Assuming the genre has indeed been 'degraded' (which not everyone agrees with), it's not WoW specifically that has done it. It's more the fact that the genre and gaming itself has become mainstream and popularized. No matter how good the product, something is inevitably lost as it gains more and more mainstream appeal. By definition, it must streamline itself to continue appealing to the broadest spectrum of consumers.
If it weren't WoW doing this in the mmo genre, it would have been some other highly refined game stepping up to take it's place. Blaming Blizzard is silly, they're just looking to make money like everyone else.
If you're unhappy with the genre and looking to lay blame, look in the mirror. Unless you're out there supporting and spreading the word about the sandbox titles like Ryzom, Darkfall, Mortal, EVE, Wurm, Fallen Earth, and others, you really have no right to complain.
WoW made playing an mmo socially exceptable be thankful for that. Blame developers for the crap games that keep coming out not WoW
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
Well, what it means is you dont have to hide 100% of your game play... Now girls wont be so freaked out by you playing a mmorpg. Well, less chcks are upset....
Based solely on what I like in an MMO, indeed the genre seems to be seriously degraded. I will however note that the blame may be due to the industry being in state of change as some of the latest crop of games and some to be released soon are tying to straddle the PC and Console platforms. Not that it can't be done well, but perhaps they've just not nailed it yet.
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust. I was talking to a long time friend and MMO gamer today who for the last couple years has been obbsessed with WoW. Before that we played tons of f2p MMOs together like, Runescape ( don't hate, my interenet was'nt fast enough to pop my MMO cherry on UO or Everquest ) Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons. But today he said something that shook me to my core. We were talking about the Aion open beta and he said " Yeah, i just don't like it. There are no tips or anything to help with quests" and his other complaint was about global cooldown and general feel of the game. So there it is again. WoW has been spoon feeding it's players like 5 year old children that even veteran real MMO players are becoming spoiled by the ease and simplicity. Sad i know...
Both WoW and Aion are shallow for a computergame. Easy to get into, not much of a learning curve after that. But very polished of course. Mainstream MMORPG in my book. But who cares, apparently most gamers want this.So this is what the industry will feed them.
Most players just dont feel the need to fool themselves that their MMO of choice is so much more sophisticated then WoW. Because its not. The OP apparently needs to fool himself about this.
When are you going to realise that many (if not most) players just dont want any real gamers challenge in a MMO? The oldschool gamers are way outnumbered by the casual crowd that approach MMORPG's in the same way as other media and are just looking for a fun relaxing time.
WoW made playing an mmo socially exceptable be thankful for that. Blame developers for the crap games that keep coming out not WoW
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
He is right and you need reading skills. He never said that it applied to himself, you are just assuming it did. I dont agree with blaming the devs btw. Thats just ignorance about the way business works.
"This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust."
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community
This is simply a thread
This thread
---------------------------
OP, the degredation of MMO's surrounds the vocal minority who just like to bitch about how games aren't up to par for themselves. Whining about easy mode? Go grow some balls and play on the PvP servers in WoW. Adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Hate how you can solo everything? Go play EQ, or FFXI. Have you tried playing any other game OTHER than WoW, that wasn't a F2P korean grindfest? If not, then that's your problem.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
It is no different then the movie/music industry. One time a long time ago movie/music producers learned that the market that would spend the most money on those forms of entertainment were teenagers. And all the big budget movies were targetted at the teenage crowd but made in a way that would at least be somewhat interesting to the adult crowd. Ever wonder why disney keeps recruitting kids and turning them into tv show/music/movie stars who also have video games, book bags etc with their picture on them? They can market it perfectly and get kids to make their parents buy them everything from every market.
MMOs started out as more of an adult world, but as with all forms of entertainment the companies figured out that the most money was in the teenagers who had the most time on their hands. So they make the games easier, more casual, and more appealing to teenagers but still have some aspect of fun for the adults. It's how the entertainment industry works as simple as that. Adults are too busy working, taking care of families etc to influence the market.
But just like movies and music there will be the smaller budget productions that target the adult audience.
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust. I was talking to a long time friend and MMO gamer today who for the last couple years has been obbsessed with WoW. Before that we played tons of f2p MMOs together like, Runescape ( don't hate, my interenet was'nt fast enough to pop my MMO cherry on UO or Everquest ) Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons. But today he said something that shook me to my core. We were talking about the Aion open beta and he said " Yeah, i just don't like it. There are no tips or anything to help with quests" and his other complaint was about global cooldown and general feel of the game. So there it is again. WoW has been spoon feeding it's players like 5 year old children that even veteran real MMO players are becoming spoiled by the ease and simplicity. Sad i know...
When are you going to realise that many (if not most) players just dont want any real gamers challenge in a MMO? The oldschool gamers are way outnumbered by the casual crowd that approach MMORPG's in the same way as other media and are just looking for a fun relaxing time
So basically you're trying to say that old school, experienced gamers are outnumbered by the people who want an easy button and have things handed to them on a silver platter because they feel entitled. Sure, I'd agree with that and yeah that may be fun and relaxing for them but at what expense? Everone elses and usually the game itself.
Not sure why anyone would use EQ in a comparison to WoW because I would agree that WoW would win over in terms of overall development (certainly not in terms of community) but that's because it was the newest thing to hit the scene not because it revolutionized everything with a new genre or model for combat or anything else, hell most of those things could be found in old school stand alone games. Aion is now the new kid on the block and while it also is not doing anything revolutionary, it is NEW and it brings with it a new story line, new world, new character customization, new additions to an old combat model, etc. etc. So much like WoW was to EQ, Aion is now going to be for WoW.
Aion isn't the next big thing but as it currently stands, it's a certain step up from the outdated WoW.
Dont kid yourselves. If a game like EQ had millions of players worldwide, its community would have been just as bad as WoW's community.
Wrong. It's not so much a matter of numbers as it is the type of game that is designed. EQ attracted alot of the AD&D type fans which often were more mature in terms of their respect for the game, roleplay, and a sense of attachment to the characters that were created. In WoW not so much. It's an easy mode loot grinder which at first attracted some of this player base but mostly people who wanted to get the best loot, get to the highest level, and play the flavor of the month characters that would get them to their end goals the fastest.
Comments
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Who cares of xfire statistics not everyone that plays mmos use it.
Xfire can't be used as a statistical factor in anything. I'ts not used by everyone. But I see what you are saying. It shows the reflection of subs because of the use of Xfire with those games.
Everyone brings up some good points on both sides. Very interesting.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
If it's western based great, i have absolutely no problem there.
3 months from now I will want to know the xfire statistics, western based ofc, of Aion as well as some other games ofc, and I will ask you personally to analize it
I just hope you dont present us with 11M for wow, because you know those are not western only numbers
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
fucks sake, if you dont want to play WoW, or games like it, dont play WoW, or games like it. THere are fucking hundreds out there. Not everything is like WoW, stop jumping from AAA to AAA being spoonfed and you might just magically find what you are looking for.
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
Up to this point I didn't mind what you were saying now I think you're just full of yourself. Just because you have different expectations of what you want in a game doesn't allow you to go around slagging others for what they want. As for delineating what is a vet and what is not, it's not your place to say one way or the other.
This is yet another tiersome thread about how a popular game ruined MMOs, bovine fecal mater. Games evolve, and WoW has pushed the MMO into the mainstream. The good news is that smaller independent shops will be innovative and try different things, because they know that the market is huge and their games may be sustainable. People whining about WoW are incredibly tedious, and so called "vets" are even more so.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
Up to this point I didn't mind what you were saying now I think you're just full of yourself. Just because you have different expectations of what you want in a game doesn't allow you to go around slagging others for what they want. As for delineating what is a vet and what is not, it's not your place to say one way or the other.
This is yet another tiersome thread about how a popular game ruined MMOs, bovine fecal mater. Games evolve, and WoW has pushed the MMO into the mainstream. The good news is that smaller independent shops will be innovative and try different things, because they know that the market is huge and their games may be sustainable. People whining about WoW are incredibly tedious, and so called "vets" are even more so.
Honestly I disagree with most of these guys saying WoW ruined the genre. I put the blame on the copycats.
The reason Im in this thread was due to an asshat that started ripping older games. Any vet that considers WoW a step up in the evolution of the genre is totally clueless.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Uhhh, done trolling WOW=) The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself. I was easily more immersed in WOW than EQ by the way, because WOW's world is FAR more well designed than EQ's flat, empty boring fields and deserts. The character design was also generic and ugly even at that time....not to mention the horrible animation.
Take 1000 people who never touched a MMO before, then let them each play EQ and WOW right after one another. Then listen to their opinions. These people don't have a clue what a MMO is. How much or your life savings would you put down on EQ capturing MORE people than WOW? How many of those 1000 would prefer EQ? 1%? 2% maybe? NONE! Now you're in the shoes of a REAL developer, not an armchair developer. How much would you gamble? The more faith you put in EQ "immersing" people in todays market, the dumber a person and business man you'd be.
The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that.
As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The fact that you mention rushing through a MMO, means your opinion doesn't matter. You're not "playing". You're racing which means you're ruining the game for yoruself.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that.
As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
Ignorant elitism at its worst. Please do us all a favor, stop generalizing to the extreme and stating untruths.
The WoW game-world is large with a lot of varied content to explore. Leveling, however, is extremely quick these days, meaning most of the players will miss the bulk of the content. You did not see but a fraction of the content in the end-game PvE content of the earlier MMOs either.
Gear was as coveted in EQ, UO, and all the other early MMOs. What has changed is how easy 'top-level' gear is to attain. If you take a look, under 1% of the player base are wearing gear from the hardest and most rewarding hard-mode encounters. What Blizzard has done with WoW is making extremely good gear easily available to most of the player-base but still retaining the exclusive status of the most coveted items.
Don't get me wrong, I do not think WoW is the best game ever. In fact I am burned out on the game and quitting when my subscription runs out next month. However, there is nothing better out there, and it certainly is not the accessibility of the game that has turned me off.
It is easy for any jackass to point their accusing finger at current games. WoW is the pop music of MMOs, there are cliche groups out there who hate it deeply, and are hell bent on destroying the game and letting everyone else know how bad it is. This sort of arrtogant intolerance I find funny, just like hardcore metal fans turning up the hate on let's say Nickelback for being sell-outs. Sure I might not like the Black Eyed Peas, but hey, I do not feel the need to start a trash talking campaign against them on the internet. Besides, after a few cold ones some of their tunes actually get my out-of-shape gamer butt moving on the dancefloor.
"Where is the versatility?" "Where is my next gen sandbox MMO?" "Where is the truly creative content?" I want answers to these questions too. Just because many of these aspects are missing from WoW do not make it a bad game, however. WoW if anything has been good for the MMO industry. If any other studio can produce such a quality product they'll have a hit on their hands, catering to millions of customers, isntead of thousands. How is that degrdadation?
QFT
WoW is the most played MMORPG on the market because it is the most fun for the vast majority of players. There are so many people on these forums who act as though WoW is complete trash, but there is not a single other game on the market that comes ANYWHERE close to WoW in terms of polish and appeal.
A lot of you don't like the game, we get that... but that is your personal preference, not a failing in Blizzard's model. If you don't like this type of game, go support one of the alternative titles that are out there. If they can't capture your attention or feel too much like WoW, that is the fault of THEIR developers, not Blizzard.
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
Metalhead980
LOL who gives a shit when his account was created?
As for WoW changing it's Loot centric treadmill, Yay!!!!! lets go from a loot grind to an achievement/Title grind!!! Oh for joy!!!!! Lets jump on this bandwagon right now!!!! I've never seen that type of endgame before!!!!!!!!!
Dude what kind of vet are you? We want a gear grind?? wtf?
Face it WoW is nothing but a fucking Queue waiting game, its a freaking internet welfare waiting line with people rushing to the next instance for that epic check they didn't earn.
That you can call yourself a vet gives us all a bad name, seriously.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now you're just sounding like a ego-inflated, condescending jackass that's shooting back venom-laced tripe just for the hell of it. I told you his creation date to show you that juuust maybe he played something other than WOW, therefore giving his opinion just as much weight as yours (obviously flew by you).
I gave my opinion about WoW in regards to how it may effect the mentality of future players that my not understand that it's not all about the gear grind they are subjecting themselves to in WoW and how Blizzard devs are now taking steps to correct this trend/line-of-thinking among their player base. (another one that zoomed by)
Yet you still feel the need to bark about how terrible some of the features are in WoW and how players will now replace one type of grind for another....spare me the straw grasping. Point is that you don't/didn't enjoy WoW and you don't plan on supporting any MMO that bears any resemblance to the game in any way/shape/form. Ok we get that, now try to get just a liiiiittle pass that part and to the place where we all do agree and move on from there, shall we?
We all agree that the industry will eventually move forward and if WoW can get some of it's players to forget about:
Then when that new sandbox mmo does come out, those are 3 battles we won't have to worry about. So now that we have that out of the way why don't you grow a pair and restrain from posting how you feel and post how you think about the topic at hand.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Assuming the genre has indeed been 'degraded' (which not everyone agrees with), it's not WoW specifically that has done it. It's more the fact that the genre and gaming itself has become mainstream and popularized. No matter how good the product, something is inevitably lost as it gains more and more mainstream appeal. By definition, it must streamline itself to continue appealing to the broadest spectrum of consumers.
If it weren't WoW doing this in the mmo genre, it would have been some other highly refined game stepping up to take it's place. Blaming Blizzard is silly, they're just looking to make money like everyone else.
If you're unhappy with the genre and looking to lay blame, look in the mirror. Unless you're out there supporting and spreading the word about the sandbox titles like Ryzom, Darkfall, Mortal, EVE, Wurm, Fallen Earth, and others, you really have no right to complain.
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
Well, what it means is you dont have to hide 100% of your game play... Now girls wont be so freaked out by you playing a mmorpg. Well, less chcks are upset....
Based solely on what I like in an MMO, indeed the genre seems to be seriously degraded. I will however note that the blame may be due to the industry being in state of change as some of the latest crop of games and some to be released soon are tying to straddle the PC and Console platforms. Not that it can't be done well, but perhaps they've just not nailed it yet.
Both WoW and Aion are shallow for a computergame. Easy to get into, not much of a learning curve after that. But very polished of course. Mainstream MMORPG in my book. But who cares, apparently most gamers want this.So this is what the industry will feed them.
Most players just dont feel the need to fool themselves that their MMO of choice is so much more sophisticated then WoW. Because its not. The OP apparently needs to fool himself about this.
When are you going to realise that many (if not most) players just dont want any real gamers challenge in a MMO? The oldschool gamers are way outnumbered by the casual crowd that approach MMORPG's in the same way as other media and are just looking for a fun relaxing time.
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
He is right and you need reading skills. He never said that it applied to himself, you are just assuming it did. I dont agree with blaming the devs btw. Thats just ignorance about the way business works.
"This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust."
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community
This is simply a thread
This thread
---------------------------
OP, the degredation of MMO's surrounds the vocal minority who just like to bitch about how games aren't up to par for themselves. Whining about easy mode? Go grow some balls and play on the PvP servers in WoW. Adds a whole new dynamic to the game. Hate how you can solo everything? Go play EQ, or FFXI. Have you tried playing any other game OTHER than WoW, that wasn't a F2P korean grindfest? If not, then that's your problem.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
It is no different then the movie/music industry. One time a long time ago movie/music producers learned that the market that would spend the most money on those forms of entertainment were teenagers. And all the big budget movies were targetted at the teenage crowd but made in a way that would at least be somewhat interesting to the adult crowd. Ever wonder why disney keeps recruitting kids and turning them into tv show/music/movie stars who also have video games, book bags etc with their picture on them? They can market it perfectly and get kids to make their parents buy them everything from every market.
MMOs started out as more of an adult world, but as with all forms of entertainment the companies figured out that the most money was in the teenagers who had the most time on their hands. So they make the games easier, more casual, and more appealing to teenagers but still have some aspect of fun for the adults. It's how the entertainment industry works as simple as that. Adults are too busy working, taking care of families etc to influence the market.
But just like movies and music there will be the smaller budget productions that target the adult audience.
When are you going to realise that many (if not most) players just dont want any real gamers challenge in a MMO? The oldschool gamers are way outnumbered by the casual crowd that approach MMORPG's in the same way as other media and are just looking for a fun relaxing time
So basically you're trying to say that old school, experienced gamers are outnumbered by the people who want an easy button and have things handed to them on a silver platter because they feel entitled. Sure, I'd agree with that and yeah that may be fun and relaxing for them but at what expense? Everone elses and usually the game itself.
Not sure why anyone would use EQ in a comparison to WoW because I would agree that WoW would win over in terms of overall development (certainly not in terms of community) but that's because it was the newest thing to hit the scene not because it revolutionized everything with a new genre or model for combat or anything else, hell most of those things could be found in old school stand alone games. Aion is now the new kid on the block and while it also is not doing anything revolutionary, it is NEW and it brings with it a new story line, new world, new character customization, new additions to an old combat model, etc. etc. So much like WoW was to EQ, Aion is now going to be for WoW.
Aion isn't the next big thing but as it currently stands, it's a certain step up from the outdated WoW.
Dont kid yourselves. If a game like EQ had millions of players worldwide, its community would have been just as bad as WoW's community.
Wrong. It's not so much a matter of numbers as it is the type of game that is designed. EQ attracted alot of the AD&D type fans which often were more mature in terms of their respect for the game, roleplay, and a sense of attachment to the characters that were created. In WoW not so much. It's an easy mode loot grinder which at first attracted some of this player base but mostly people who wanted to get the best loot, get to the highest level, and play the flavor of the month characters that would get them to their end goals the fastest.