But today he said something that shook me to my core. We were talking about the Aion open beta and he said " Yeah, i just don't like it. There are no tips or anything to help with quests" and his other complaint was about global cooldown and general feel of the game.
Just a heads up. The quest system in Aion is easier then Wow. When you bring up the quest it has links to most of the information you need to finish the quest. And on most quest you can click a locate button at the bottom of that window and it will show up on the map where you have to go. It really does not get any easier then that. :P
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
I respect your opinion, but I must dissagree. In my opinion WoW is somewhat mindless. Even people who play it gripe about overpowered classes and the pointlessness of PVP. Most players only PVP to get honor and shit. There is absolutely no skill in mastering this game. Everything is spoon fed to you, like the OP was saying. Even crafting, which I personally find to be one of the most attractive things about MMOs, is a complete joke. Many games these days are, but I have the bar set high by games such as runescape, Atlantica and EQ.
So anyway, my point is, i agree with the side that is saying this: WoW has set a standard that is not letting companies have the free will to explore the genere and advance it, insted they are making games retard-proof- and dumbing down the industry. So "Hard to master" IMO, is a fucking joke.
are we allowed to cuss in this forum? i never read the rules...Or maybe i did ( don't ban-hammer me plz)
It is no different then the movie/music industry. One time a long time ago movie/music producers learned that the market that would spend the most money on those forms of entertainment were teenagers. And all the big budget movies were targetted at the teenage crowd but made in a way that would at least be somewhat interesting to the adult crowd. Ever wonder why disney keeps recruitting kids and turning them into tv show/music/movie stars who also have video games, book bags etc with their picture on them? They can market it perfectly and get kids to make their parents buy them everything from every market.
MMOs started out as more of an adult world, but as with all forms of entertainment the companies figured out that the most money was in the teenagers who had the most time on their hands. So they make the games easier, more casual, and more appealing to teenagers but still have some aspect of fun for the adults. It's how the entertainment industry works as simple as that. Adults are too busy working, taking care of families etc to influence the market.
But just like movies and music there will be the smaller budget productions that target the adult audience.
QFT. WoW is simply the manifestation of an inevitability in the logical course of entertainment media. However, a key variable that sets MMOs apart from these other types of entertainment is that the interactivity of MMOs allows customers to more profoundly affect the experience of other customers.
Rightly, MMOs have come to rely on their subscriber populations as an element of the product's quality. Producers of music and movies can make an excellent product and even if nobody buys it, it will remain an excellent product because its quality is unaffected by the customer. An MMO on the other hand, can actually become better or worse based on how many people are playing and what type of people are playing.
I also imagine that the evolutionary nature of MMOs can have an effect on what the customer finds enjoyable. We generally only know that we like something if we've done it before, or at least have a vague conceptualization about it. Consider any MMO's original contributions to the genre (player housing, player-driven markets, pvp rewards, etc) and realize that a lot of players didn't know that they liked this stuff until it was made available to them. In that way, the games actually change what the players like.
People always play what the want when it comes to games. They don't play what people tell them to. And when it comes to MMOs, people are even more informed and picky. They'll always play whats fun for them and for most people, WOW is the most fun. There're plenty of alternatives out there. Plenty of copies as well. But since 2004, Blizzard has been doing what most people like to see in a MMO. If thats not your thing, thats fine. You don't have to play WOW. You don't have to look at WOW. You only have to respect and understand that its no fluke and everything Blizzard has done has been calculated and planned. VERY different from early MMOs who were just feeling their way through the darkness, appealing to an extremely naive and ignorant playerbase who didn't know any better and had very few choices. Now people have loads of choices, have seen it all and veterans and new players alike CHOOSE WOW. Deal with it and get on with your lives. As we've seen you can't just copy a game. It doesn't work. OTHER developers have degraded the genre by not doing their part. Not Blizzard. Blizzard continues to try new things that peopel LIKE!!! Thats the important thing. They add what people want to their game. Maybe its not as radical as what some people want, but those people really don't matter. They're too few to listen to. Too few to support a single game let alone an entire genre of games. Something new isn't always good. Something out of the box doesn't make whatever it is fun. Somethign well designed is fun. To be well designed is has to be tested and accepted and BLizzard does that better than any other MMO developer at the moment. Blizzard is one fo the few developers that still cares about making a fun product. Thats why people play. Its not like WOW is the cheapest game to play. Its not like other MMOs dont' run well on medicer PCs. Plenty do, ESSPECIALLY older MMOs some people like to puff their chests over. See, those MMOs aren't good today and they were good back in 2000 either by TODAYS standards. Thats the catch. TODAYs standards. Just like Doom was good back when there were no FPSs on the market and everything was fresh, it sucks by todays standards. ANy new FPS that is like Doom will suck now. Just like any new MMO trying to copy UO or EQ will suck now. The genre moves on. SOme people need to move along with it. If they don't like the direction, leave or put your money where your mouth is and support MMOs that do try something radical and different. But as we've seen, most people just want to play fun games. FUN games get played.
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
I respect your opinion, but I must dissagree. In my opinion WoW is somewhat mindless. Even people who play it gripe about overpowered classes and the pointlessness of PVP. Most players only PVP to get honor and shit. There is absolutely no skill in mastering this game. Everything is spoon fed to you, like the OP was saying. Even crafting, which I personally find to be one of the most attractive things about MMOs, is a complete joke. Many games these days are, but I have the bar set high by games such as runescape, Atlantica and EQ.
So anyway, my point is, i agree with the side that is saying this: WoW has set a standard that is not letting companies have the free will to explore the genere and advance it, insted they are making games retard-proof- and dumbing down the industry. So "Hard to master" IMO, is a fucking joke.
are we allowed to cuss in this forum? i never read the rules...Or maybe i did ( don't ban-hammer me plz)
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that. As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
You said WOW is only good for "rushing through", so I naturally assumed thats what YOU THINK the game is about, since you actually said it and most people mean what they say=) You also called it Diablo with a chat room andhow you're just waiting on queues, which seems highly ironic considering how much waiting around you did in EQ and older MMOs. And if you think a new coat of paint on EQ's old, tired, ancient, autoattack combat system, 1 dimentional clases, TRAINS and extreme death penalties would gather anything more than a small percentage of its original playerbase, you're more out of touch than I thought.
I agree with you though, MMOs need to be more than just a quest stacker and gear grind. New MMOs latched on to WOW's quest system but forgot to add interesting worlds around those quests. Its the reason they feel so lifeless. A road with some forests and quest hubs around them doesnt' make a zone. The also forgot to add creative variations mixed in with the simple gather/kill/deliver variety. Adding in exact locations and markers where to find the mobs or items also doesn't help matters. WOW's quest system is still heads and tails above others. Blizzard at least mixes in some creative alternatives and weaves in the lore better, while other MMOs are just one pointless quest after the other.
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust. I was talking to a long time friend and MMO gamer today who for the last couple years has been obbsessed with WoW. Before that we played tons of f2p MMOs together like, Runescape ( don't hate, my interenet was'nt fast enough to pop my MMO cherry on UO or Everquest ) Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons. But today he said something that shook me to my core. We were talking about the Aion open beta and he said " Yeah, i just don't like it. There are no tips or anything to help with quests" and his other complaint was about global cooldown and general feel of the game. So there it is again. WoW has been spoon feeding it's players like 5 year old children that even veteran real MMO players are becoming spoiled by the ease and simplicity. Sad i know...
I agree with your frd. It is pointless, and NON-fun, to walk around aimlessly to find the quest. The fun part is the combat (or the relevant activity), not search a big area for a cave.
Like it or not, that is the reality of making good GAMES.
I think a huge part of the problem is that we players are simply burned out. By burned out, I mean being burned out of the MMO genre and possibly videogames as a whole.
Think about how much time you have spent over the last multiple years playing MMO's (doesn't matter which ones), single rpgs and other video games. Add up all those hours, grinding, pvping, crafting, raiding, etc and be very blown away.
Add them up and find that you haven't been playing in a time scale measured by hours, days or weeks, but by many months and YEARS. I am totally serious here, if you took all the time you have played and measured it consecutively, it would be years.
Only jobs, family, and sleep consume more time, and I can site numerous examples where avid players have placed gaming ahead of job, family and sleep for months, even years at a stretch.
And you wonder why you are bored?
True, the current spate of clones and half baked titles is aggrivating the situation. And I do think it is time studios stop taking the safe route and take chances on risky but more creative endeavors.
But I have to wonder, even if a studio were to meet all our demands and expectations, would we really give it a chance, or will will moan, bash and pick at it like every other title that has been released?
There are a lot of good and fun games out right now. There was a time when even WoW was fun. But do something often enough and it goes from fun to job to chore to blah.
I rushed through WoWs mini-maps? I never said that. As for the rest of your bogus post. Most of those 1000 newbs would be instantly turned off by EQs graphics and wouldn't even give the game and chance. You can't expect the Ps3 and 360 generation of gamers to play a game that looks that dated.
As for the being a smart business man, Lets see how well these smart business guys have done backing games that target the mentally challenged like WoW.
AoC = 70k subs, WAR= 80k subs, Lotro = 150k subs, Vanguard = 30k subs all are worthless ezmode quest stackers dumbed down to appeal to the lowest of the low, the non-gamer.
It's only a matter of time before the genre as a whole evolves into something similar to the old days. How many AAA devs have to fail before this happens? I have no idea but it will.
People want more than just a lame quest stacker and gear grind endgame and the proof is in the numbers of all the games trying to copy the one game that got lucky and picked up the players that never intended to play a mmo and should have never looked in its direction in the first place.
You said WOW is only good for "rushing through", so I naturally assumed thats what YOU THINK the game is about, since you actually said it and most people mean what they say=) You also called it Diablo with a chat room andhow you're just waiting on queues, which seems highly ironic considering how much waiting around you did in EQ and older MMOs. And if you think a new coat of paint on EQ's old, tired, ancient, autoattack combat system, 1 dimentional clases, TRAINS and extreme death penalties would gather anything more than a small percentage of its original playerbase, you're more out of touch than I thought.
I agree with you though, MMOs need to be more than just a quest stacker and gear grind. New MMOs latched on to WOW's quest system but forgot to add interesting worlds around those quests. Its the reason they feel so lifeless. A road with some forests and quest hubs around them doesnt' make a zone. The also forgot to add creative variations mixed in with the simple gather/kill/deliver variety. Adding in exact locations and markers where to find the mobs or items also doesn't help matters. WOW's quest system is still heads and tails above others. Blizzard at least mixes in some creative alternatives and weaves in the lore better, while other MMOs are just one pointless quest after the other.
I think we might as well just agree to diagree about how good WoW and Eq are. Honestly it gets boring to bash WoW, it's too easy and after a day it gets boring (kind of like playing it).
WoW has its uses and believe me I thank blizzard everyday that they created a game that holds 95% of those players that are absolutely horrid. Anyway wether I feel wow is a big retard holding cell is beside the point.
Lets get back on track with the OP.
Why do people think WoW is the reason the mmo genre blows today.
I personally dont, I feel wow made quite a bit of money and as a businessman I understand why other companies want a piece of the pie. So in reality its the wow copycats that have ruined the last 5 years of the MMO genre.
This is simply a thread to make those of you who have noticed what is happening in the MMO community these days shake your head in disgust. I was talking to a long time friend and MMO gamer today who for the last couple years has been obbsessed with WoW. Before that we played tons of f2p MMOs together like, Runescape ( don't hate, my interenet was'nt fast enough to pop my MMO cherry on UO or Everquest ) Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons. But today he said something that shook me to my core. We were talking about the Aion open beta and he said " Yeah, i just don't like it. There are no tips or anything to help with quests" and his other complaint was about global cooldown and general feel of the game. So there it is again. WoW has been spoon feeding it's players like 5 year old children that even veteran real MMO players are becoming spoiled by the ease and simplicity. Sad i know...
WoW doesn't have tips or anything to help with quests either.
There are external sites and external addons that can provide assistance, but judging the game based on the existence of these is ridiculous. All MMOs have wiki sites and such these days; especially ones that have been running for years.
I'm sure if Aion is still running in 5 years time there will be comprehensive quest guides and addons available too. The game developer can't be held responsible if players devise tools to make the content easier and other players decide to use them.
It's just another fallacious argument that WoW-haters use to present the game in a negative light.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
"Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons."
stopped reading here. GW? grindfest? roflmaolol! that has to be the worst example of grind ever. ALL of popular p2p and f2p mmos have more grind than GW.
I was'nt calling GW a Korean Grindathon. I see it could be interpreted like that, since I listed 3 before it. But i did'nt mean it like that. It's like saying: "what kind of food do you eat?" " I eat: Apples, Bannannas, Pears, Pizza and other yummy fruit." It could be interpreted to imply that i was saying pizza was fruit, but it can also be read that i'm just listing items, and then say a broad term at the end.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
WoW made playing an mmo socially exceptable be thankful for that. Blame developers for the crap games that keep coming out not WoW
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
Well, what it means is you dont have to hide 100% of your game play... Now girls wont be so freaked out by you playing a mmorpg. Well, less chcks are upset....
Riiight lets see you guys go to random hottie at a dance hall and brag about what kind of arena rating you got. It's not socially acceptable in the slightest.
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
Dont' blame WOW for lousy MMOs. Blame developers for not being able to keep up. People play what they find fun. If most people find WOW fun, you're going to blame the developers? Blame a maturing genre. It changes with the market and the market got sick of MMOs designed just for no life nerds who can dedicate 3 or 4 hrs at a time. It was always absurd that a game would force you to do that just to advance or do anything meaningful. REALLY sad.
I'd rather be a "no-life nerd" than a no brain nerd.
I prefer games that make you think. I thought DAoC, AC, and SB were fun in that your hand was never held. If budgeting a few hours of time around school, work and family to play a game I like makes me a no life nerd, I'm completely fine with that.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
I bet u haven't cleared all the new raid bosses on hard mode. Don't claim it is simple until u do so.
And Diablo with 3D cities is win. Diablo is one of the greatest game ever made.
So the game is not true worlds, so what? It is a good game. No game is a true world anyway. And EQ is as level/gear centric as WOW, san the quests.
Honestly I disagree with most of these guys saying WoW ruined the genre. I put the blame on the copycats. The reason Im in this thread was due to an asshat that started ripping older games. Any vet that considers WoW a step up in the evolution of the genre is totally clueless.
Of course you can ripp off older games. )) In fact it is quite easy.
Why not? plenty of reasons. Let's see... I'll take on the minor ones (not even wanting to go into the amateurish set ups of badly programmed locations which some seem to think they are equivalent to "quality").
-------
They move with stiff avatars with a stick in their asses. Doing PvP with sluggish unresponsive GCD timers that made me cry.
They had pure tank/spank bosses that didn't move an inch . A bit like Aion these days: great hitting on a wall for 20 minutes.
Boss tactics? Who even heard of these...
Server crashes. NPC's that dissapeared, that never moved an inch, players that ran without feet, a city with streets that ran nowhere. Oh sorry that was off line Morrowind, back on track...
And then that dreadful zoning with hidden walls everywhere. Oh wait you just ran to the border of your screen in the massive world of UO.
Why,.... if you can complain about a +30 resilience factor in WOW, I can find with ease 30.000 fundamental remarks on those older games that NO ONE would accept these days.
And why? Mostly because of being too spoiled by Blizzard quality.
Period.
WOW took what was good about other games and produced a game with dumbed down gameplay that anyone can play combined with cheap graphics that any off the shelf computer can run. Seeing that money can be made from such a concept other companies followed suit. Blizz is a business that knows how to make money. But it came with a price, gamers are paying the price and will continue to do so. Degradation is a pretty good definition for it. Blizz is to MMO's what the Wii is to console gaming.
WoW has really messed up the MMO market. It has really failed in the case that the new standard is WoW. And, now MMOs are supposed to copy this game if they want to be successful. Look at games that haven't copied WoW for instance, they have failed even quicker. I think that no one wants to step out and create an MMO unlike WoW because they're scared it will fail. WoW is a proven method for success and the word MMO is being shaped by WoW.
I've played a few of the games that tried to "replace" WoW, and honestly they sucked. Vanguard at release drove me to frustration with more problems than I care to recall. DDO? Five years ago, when I had time to sit around for two hours to find a group (like I used to do with EQ) that would have been fine. Now, with work and family applying pressure, my play time would be up before I found a group. Warhammer I've not played, but the complaints have been legion and have litte to do with WoW from what I've seen. Conan was enjoyable when the questlines worked, and a bit of a mess when they didn't. EQ2 was a disaster at release, and even though rumor has it that it's a much-improved game, I remember what SOE did to SWG.
Only LOTRO provides what I would call equivalent enjoyment. But I can really only justify one subscription at a time. It wasn't enough better than WoW to get me to switch. If it were free to play, or a single player game (requiring no subscription), I'd probably fire it up quite a bit.
One thing that WoW did, and in my mind is absolutely wonderful, is that it gave a purpose to the "grind". Sure, questing is nothing but going out and killing 10 x's and bringing 20 y's back to town. But at least it's something. I remember grinding in EQ (and Vanguard had very much the same feel, even very early on) for hours on end to gain 10% or 15% of a level. No killing quests or gathering quests. Just flat out slaughtering the same mobs over and over and over. WoW did away with that feeling completely. Even if I only have an hour to play, I can run out, kill 10 or 20 mobs, and finish a quest. It provided a sense of accomplishing something, even if it wasn't much.
I have my gripes with WoW (the overabundance of epics for one), but overall it's still a tremendously enjoyable game. It offers solid-to-excellent gameplay for a variety of playstyles (hardcore raiders, soloers, and pvp). And if something comes along that is more fun, I'll make the jump. But it has to be better. Just "about the same" won't cut it simply because of the time I have invested in WoW. Not to mention the friends I've made (I've been in the same guild three years), and minor upgrades just won't do it.
Have developers tightened up, become afraid to take a chance, failed because they tried to be all things to all people? Certainly. Is all that caused by WoW. Quite often, yes. But that is hardly Blizzard's fault. WoW's a great game, still a ton of fun for me, and something I feel I'm getting my money's worth from. If that changes, I'll look elsewhere. If not, I'll be celebrating those anniversaries every year (four years and counting...).
WoW has really messed up the MMO market. It has really failed in the case that the new standard is WoW. And, now MMOs are supposed to copy this game if they want to be successful. Look at games that haven't copied WoW for instance, they have failed even quicker. I think that no one wants to step out and create an MMO unlike WoW because they're scared it will fail. WoW is a proven method for success and the word MMO is being shaped by WoW.
I've played a few of the games that tried to "replace" WoW, and honestly they sucked. Vanguard at release drove me to frustration with more problems than I care to recall. DDO? Five years ago, when I had time to sit around for two hours to find a group (like I used to do with EQ) that would have been fine. Now, with work and family applying pressure, my play time would be up before I found a group. Warhammer I've not played, but the complaints have been legion and have litte to do with WoW from what I've seen. Conan was enjoyable when the questlines worked, and a bit of a mess when they didn't. EQ2 was a disaster at release, and even though rumor has it that it's a much-improved game, I remember what SOE did to SWG.
Only LOTRO provides what I would call equivalent enjoyment. But I can really only justify one subscription at a time. It wasn't enough better than WoW to get me to switch. If it were free to play, or a single player game (requiring no subscription), I'd probably fire it up quite a bit.
One thing that WoW did, and in my mind is absolutely wonderful, is that it gave a purpose to the "grind". Sure, questing is nothing but going out and killing 10 x's and bringing 20 y's back to town. But at least it's something. I remember grinding in EQ (and Vanguard had very much the same feel, even very early on) for hours on end to gain 10% or 15% of a level. No killing quests or gathering quests. Just flat out slaughtering the same mobs over and over and over. WoW did away with that feeling completely. Even if I only have an hour to play, I can run out, kill 10 or 20 mobs, and finish a quest. It provided a sense of accomplishing something, even if it wasn't much.
I have my gripes with WoW (the overabundance of epics for one), but overall it's still a tremendously enjoyable game. It offers solid-to-excellent gameplay for a variety of playstyles (hardcore raiders, soloers, and pvp). And if something comes along that is more fun, I'll make the jump. But it has to be better. Just "about the same" won't cut it simply because of the time I have invested in WoW. Not to mention the friends I've made (I've been in the same guild three years), and minor upgrades just won't do it.
Have developers tightened up, become afraid to take a chance, failed because they tried to be all things to all people? Certainly. Is all that caused by WoW. Quite often, yes. But that is hardly Blizzard's fault. WoW's a great game, still a ton of fun for me, and something I feel I'm getting my money's worth from. If that changes, I'll look elsewhere. If not, I'll be celebrating those anniversaries every year (four years and counting...).
Four years of WoW? I can believe that for a casual gamer. And that's kind of the point. WoW is a casual game, and IMO that's partly what is unatractive to me, why i never played long. You got nerd fags who play 24/7 and have 6 level 80s, and every good item, meanwhile a casual player is struggling to even hit 80 with one char. But most hardcore people dry out what WoW has to offer quick. So i guess it can go either way.
I agree that you say it's not Blizzard's fault. They set out to make a casual, fun MMO and they succeeded. It's just unfortunate that it has become a staple game for the industry and everyone is trying to mimic it for quick cash. And people new to MMOs think that it is the standard, and MMOs should be just like it. So it brings alot of fags into the community over other games, that just bitch because the game is'nt as polished as WoW, but for some reason are still playing it.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
Hey folks did you hear? WoW caused Obesity WoW caused Cancer Wow caused Columbine WoW caused the U.S. economy to fail WoW caused People to die playing it WoW tells people and other companies what to do WoW kills kittens WoW Drank my milkshake WoW hates Mudkips WoW is the leading cause of aids WoW causes all the universes problems
Ah i feel much better now, i always needed something to blame for everything.
Hey folks did you hear? WoW caused Obesity WoW caused Cancer Wow caused Columbine WoW caused the U.S. economy to fail WoW caused People to die playing it WoW tells people and other companies what to do WoW kills kittens WoW Drank my milkshake WoW hates Mudkips WoW is the leading cause of aids WoW causes all the universes problems
Ah i feel much better now, i always needed something to blame for everything.
HeHE GOod OnE!!!
Not!
WoW made this guy hate me T_T
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
People need to stop pretending that MMOs pre WoW were something special.. They were new and different from other genres.. Thats it.
UO was a Gankfest / Grindfest.
EQ was a Grindfest.
DAoC was a Grindfest.
This why WoW is so popular.. Blizzard lessened the grind to where people can progress and have fun along the way. Not that old and tired camp X area for 3 levels then move to Z area for another 4 all the while killing the same area over and over again for weeks at a time.
The only people who seem to care about the old games are the ones still stuck with the elitist attitude even as adults. Then you have others who insist on letting nostalgia dilute there thinking. Nothing is ever what you remember.
Oh and please stop with the whole " community " bit.. Its hilarious. Quit pretending already. UO and EQ were full of idiots too you know. You had people demanding 10p for a teleport after the fact or others who would send you some pretty bad /tells if you happened to be afk while they asked for a SoW.. Morons are in every game but the community is what you make of it and more often than not you attract people that are like you...
Comments
Just a heads up. The quest system in Aion is easier then Wow. When you bring up the quest it has links to most of the information you need to finish the quest. And on most quest you can click a locate button at the bottom of that window and it will show up on the map where you have to go. It really does not get any easier then that. :P
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
I respect your opinion, but I must dissagree. In my opinion WoW is somewhat mindless. Even people who play it gripe about overpowered classes and the pointlessness of PVP. Most players only PVP to get honor and shit. There is absolutely no skill in mastering this game. Everything is spoon fed to you, like the OP was saying. Even crafting, which I personally find to be one of the most attractive things about MMOs, is a complete joke. Many games these days are, but I have the bar set high by games such as runescape, Atlantica and EQ.
So anyway, my point is, i agree with the side that is saying this: WoW has set a standard that is not letting companies have the free will to explore the genere and advance it, insted they are making games retard-proof- and dumbing down the industry. So "Hard to master" IMO, is a fucking joke.
are we allowed to cuss in this forum? i never read the rules...Or maybe i did ( don't ban-hammer me plz)
QFT. WoW is simply the manifestation of an inevitability in the logical course of entertainment media. However, a key variable that sets MMOs apart from these other types of entertainment is that the interactivity of MMOs allows customers to more profoundly affect the experience of other customers.
Rightly, MMOs have come to rely on their subscriber populations as an element of the product's quality. Producers of music and movies can make an excellent product and even if nobody buys it, it will remain an excellent product because its quality is unaffected by the customer. An MMO on the other hand, can actually become better or worse based on how many people are playing and what type of people are playing.
I also imagine that the evolutionary nature of MMOs can have an effect on what the customer finds enjoyable. We generally only know that we like something if we've done it before, or at least have a vague conceptualization about it. Consider any MMO's original contributions to the genre (player housing, player-driven markets, pvp rewards, etc) and realize that a lot of players didn't know that they liked this stuff until it was made available to them. In that way, the games actually change what the players like.
I have more to say but I'm out of time :-(
Are you done trolling old gamers? feel good now?
Ill toss some facts out there for you.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
It's a fact people like being rewarded so many people like WoW because of the amount of shineys people get with little to no effort.
Lets take the gear away and what do you have left? certainly not a immersive world like the older games offer you, games you claim suck.
Ok genius so you try to belittle a guy's stance that has a account 5 years older than yours and assumes he's trolling old gamers? LOL get a clue. I happen to think that WoW is a excellent, well-made polished MMO that's easy to learn but hard to master. If that's too much for your brain to process I suggest you take a step back and think for a moment. Not all "vets" are typical MMO players that shun anything made after UO or EQ (I hated EQ btw) AC.
Would we like to see the genre move along? Yes. Do we feel the need to hark on WoW or current MMOs for everything they provide for gamers these days (wiki, videos, strategies)? No. Sooner or later some of you will realize that games are meant to be played in a span of time. Eventually you're suppose to move on and find something new. Even the devs know this, hence the reason they try more often to get new players than trying to re-charm old ones.
Now they are revamping the concept of gathering epic loot in WoW, so it will mean less than what it did in the beginning. Slowly turning WoW from a endgame less dependent gear checks and more inclusive for many more casual players. Sure some old skool vets will be upset now that the focus will be off obtaining gear and redirected to actually enjoying the experience. But that's how it goes. I for one welcome the change.
I respect your opinion, but I must dissagree. In my opinion WoW is somewhat mindless. Even people who play it gripe about overpowered classes and the pointlessness of PVP. Most players only PVP to get honor and shit. There is absolutely no skill in mastering this game. Everything is spoon fed to you, like the OP was saying. Even crafting, which I personally find to be one of the most attractive things about MMOs, is a complete joke. Many games these days are, but I have the bar set high by games such as runescape, Atlantica and EQ.
So anyway, my point is, i agree with the side that is saying this: WoW has set a standard that is not letting companies have the free will to explore the genere and advance it, insted they are making games retard-proof- and dumbing down the industry. So "Hard to master" IMO, is a fucking joke.
are we allowed to cuss in this forum? i never read the rules...Or maybe i did ( don't ban-hammer me plz)
Woah, I smiled irl when you called Runescape and Atlantica good games.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
You said WOW is only good for "rushing through", so I naturally assumed thats what YOU THINK the game is about, since you actually said it and most people mean what they say=) You also called it Diablo with a chat room and how you're just waiting on queues, which seems highly ironic considering how much waiting around you did in EQ and older MMOs. And if you think a new coat of paint on EQ's old, tired, ancient, autoattack combat system, 1 dimentional clases, TRAINS and extreme death penalties would gather anything more than a small percentage of its original playerbase, you're more out of touch than I thought.
I agree with you though, MMOs need to be more than just a quest stacker and gear grind. New MMOs latched on to WOW's quest system but forgot to add interesting worlds around those quests. Its the reason they feel so lifeless. A road with some forests and quest hubs around them doesnt' make a zone. The also forgot to add creative variations mixed in with the simple gather/kill/deliver variety. Adding in exact locations and markers where to find the mobs or items also doesn't help matters. WOW's quest system is still heads and tails above others. Blizzard at least mixes in some creative alternatives and weaves in the lore better, while other MMOs are just one pointless quest after the other.
I agree with your frd. It is pointless, and NON-fun, to walk around aimlessly to find the quest. The fun part is the combat (or the relevant activity), not search a big area for a cave.
Like it or not, that is the reality of making good GAMES.
I think a huge part of the problem is that we players are simply burned out. By burned out, I mean being burned out of the MMO genre and possibly videogames as a whole.
Think about how much time you have spent over the last multiple years playing MMO's (doesn't matter which ones), single rpgs and other video games. Add up all those hours, grinding, pvping, crafting, raiding, etc and be very blown away.
Add them up and find that you haven't been playing in a time scale measured by hours, days or weeks, but by many months and YEARS. I am totally serious here, if you took all the time you have played and measured it consecutively, it would be years.
Only jobs, family, and sleep consume more time, and I can site numerous examples where avid players have placed gaming ahead of job, family and sleep for months, even years at a stretch.
And you wonder why you are bored?
True, the current spate of clones and half baked titles is aggrivating the situation. And I do think it is time studios stop taking the safe route and take chances on risky but more creative endeavors.
But I have to wonder, even if a studio were to meet all our demands and expectations, would we really give it a chance, or will will moan, bash and pick at it like every other title that has been released?
There are a lot of good and fun games out right now. There was a time when even WoW was fun. But do something often enough and it goes from fun to job to chore to blah.
Are you burned out? I know I am.
You said WOW is only good for "rushing through", so I naturally assumed thats what YOU THINK the game is about, since you actually said it and most people mean what they say=) You also called it Diablo with a chat room and how you're just waiting on queues, which seems highly ironic considering how much waiting around you did in EQ and older MMOs. And if you think a new coat of paint on EQ's old, tired, ancient, autoattack combat system, 1 dimentional clases, TRAINS and extreme death penalties would gather anything more than a small percentage of its original playerbase, you're more out of touch than I thought.
I agree with you though, MMOs need to be more than just a quest stacker and gear grind. New MMOs latched on to WOW's quest system but forgot to add interesting worlds around those quests. Its the reason they feel so lifeless. A road with some forests and quest hubs around them doesnt' make a zone. The also forgot to add creative variations mixed in with the simple gather/kill/deliver variety. Adding in exact locations and markers where to find the mobs or items also doesn't help matters. WOW's quest system is still heads and tails above others. Blizzard at least mixes in some creative alternatives and weaves in the lore better, while other MMOs are just one pointless quest after the other.
I think we might as well just agree to diagree about how good WoW and Eq are. Honestly it gets boring to bash WoW, it's too easy and after a day it gets boring (kind of like playing it).
WoW has its uses and believe me I thank blizzard everyday that they created a game that holds 95% of those players that are absolutely horrid. Anyway wether I feel wow is a big retard holding cell is beside the point.
Lets get back on track with the OP.
Why do people think WoW is the reason the mmo genre blows today.
I personally dont, I feel wow made quite a bit of money and as a businessman I understand why other companies want a piece of the pie. So in reality its the wow copycats that have ruined the last 5 years of the MMO genre.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
WoW doesn't have tips or anything to help with quests either.
There are external sites and external addons that can provide assistance, but judging the game based on the existence of these is ridiculous. All MMOs have wiki sites and such these days; especially ones that have been running for years.
I'm sure if Aion is still running in 5 years time there will be comprehensive quest guides and addons available too. The game developer can't be held responsible if players devise tools to make the content easier and other players decide to use them.
It's just another fallacious argument that WoW-haters use to present the game in a negative light.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
"Kal Online, Rappelz, Archlord, GW and countless other Korean Grindathons."
stopped reading here.
GW? grindfest? roflmaolol! that has to be the worst example of grind ever. ALL of popular p2p and f2p mmos have more grind than GW.
I was'nt calling GW a Korean Grindathon. I see it could be interpreted like that, since I listed 3 before it. But i did'nt mean it like that. It's like saying: "what kind of food do you eat?" " I eat: Apples, Bannannas, Pears, Pizza and other yummy fruit." It could be interpreted to imply that i was saying pizza was fruit, but it can also be read that i'm just listing items, and then say a broad term at the end.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
socially acceptable? so you're saying that you only play something because others do, or because its popular with the cool kids?..this proves the wow sheep effect.
socially acceptable, thanks for the laugh zombie.
Well, what it means is you dont have to hide 100% of your game play... Now girls wont be so freaked out by you playing a mmorpg. Well, less chcks are upset....
Riiight lets see you guys go to random hottie at a dance hall and brag about what kind of arena rating you got. It's not socially acceptable in the slightest.
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
I'd rather be a "no-life nerd" than a no brain nerd.
I prefer games that make you think. I thought DAoC, AC, and SB were fun in that your hand was never held. If budgeting a few hours of time around school, work and family to play a game I like makes me a no life nerd, I'm completely fine with that.
You play one of the simplest games on the market. Your game boils down to you waiting on queues for instanced pvp or dungeons/raids in a endless gear treadmill. Azeroth and Outland aren't worlds in your game they're something you rush through so your game is basically Diablo with 3d cities instead of a chat lobby.
I bet u haven't cleared all the new raid bosses on hard mode. Don't claim it is simple until u do so.
And Diablo with 3D cities is win. Diablo is one of the greatest game ever made.
So the game is not true worlds, so what? It is a good game. No game is a true world anyway. And EQ is as level/gear centric as WOW, san the quests.
Of course you can ripp off older games.
)) In fact it is quite easy.
Why not? plenty of reasons. Let's see... I'll take on the minor ones (not even wanting to go into the amateurish set ups of badly programmed locations which some seem to think they are equivalent to "quality").
-------
They move with stiff avatars with a stick in their asses. Doing PvP with sluggish unresponsive GCD timers that made me cry.
They had pure tank/spank bosses that didn't move an inch . A bit like Aion these days: great hitting on a wall for 20 minutes.
Boss tactics? Who even heard of these...
Server crashes. NPC's that dissapeared, that never moved an inch, players that ran without feet, a city with streets that ran nowhere. Oh sorry that was off line Morrowind, back on track...
And then that dreadful zoning with hidden walls everywhere. Oh wait you just ran to the border of your screen in the massive world of UO.
Why,.... if you can complain about a +30 resilience factor in WOW, I can find with ease 30.000 fundamental remarks on those older games that NO ONE would accept these days.
And why? Mostly because of being too spoiled by Blizzard quality.
Period.
WOW took what was good about other games and produced a game with dumbed down gameplay that anyone can play combined with cheap graphics that any off the shelf computer can run. Seeing that money can be made from such a concept other companies followed suit. Blizz is a business that knows how to make money. But it came with a price, gamers are paying the price and will continue to do so. Degradation is a pretty good definition for it. Blizz is to MMO's what the Wii is to console gaming.
I've played a few of the games that tried to "replace" WoW, and honestly they sucked. Vanguard at release drove me to frustration with more problems than I care to recall. DDO? Five years ago, when I had time to sit around for two hours to find a group (like I used to do with EQ) that would have been fine. Now, with work and family applying pressure, my play time would be up before I found a group. Warhammer I've not played, but the complaints have been legion and have litte to do with WoW from what I've seen. Conan was enjoyable when the questlines worked, and a bit of a mess when they didn't. EQ2 was a disaster at release, and even though rumor has it that it's a much-improved game, I remember what SOE did to SWG.
Only LOTRO provides what I would call equivalent enjoyment. But I can really only justify one subscription at a time. It wasn't enough better than WoW to get me to switch. If it were free to play, or a single player game (requiring no subscription), I'd probably fire it up quite a bit.
One thing that WoW did, and in my mind is absolutely wonderful, is that it gave a purpose to the "grind". Sure, questing is nothing but going out and killing 10 x's and bringing 20 y's back to town. But at least it's something. I remember grinding in EQ (and Vanguard had very much the same feel, even very early on) for hours on end to gain 10% or 15% of a level. No killing quests or gathering quests. Just flat out slaughtering the same mobs over and over and over. WoW did away with that feeling completely. Even if I only have an hour to play, I can run out, kill 10 or 20 mobs, and finish a quest. It provided a sense of accomplishing something, even if it wasn't much.
I have my gripes with WoW (the overabundance of epics for one), but overall it's still a tremendously enjoyable game. It offers solid-to-excellent gameplay for a variety of playstyles (hardcore raiders, soloers, and pvp). And if something comes along that is more fun, I'll make the jump. But it has to be better. Just "about the same" won't cut it simply because of the time I have invested in WoW. Not to mention the friends I've made (I've been in the same guild three years), and minor upgrades just won't do it.
Have developers tightened up, become afraid to take a chance, failed because they tried to be all things to all people? Certainly. Is all that caused by WoW. Quite often, yes. But that is hardly Blizzard's fault. WoW's a great game, still a ton of fun for me, and something I feel I'm getting my money's worth from. If that changes, I'll look elsewhere. If not, I'll be celebrating those anniversaries every year (four years and counting...).
I've played a few of the games that tried to "replace" WoW, and honestly they sucked. Vanguard at release drove me to frustration with more problems than I care to recall. DDO? Five years ago, when I had time to sit around for two hours to find a group (like I used to do with EQ) that would have been fine. Now, with work and family applying pressure, my play time would be up before I found a group. Warhammer I've not played, but the complaints have been legion and have litte to do with WoW from what I've seen. Conan was enjoyable when the questlines worked, and a bit of a mess when they didn't. EQ2 was a disaster at release, and even though rumor has it that it's a much-improved game, I remember what SOE did to SWG.
Only LOTRO provides what I would call equivalent enjoyment. But I can really only justify one subscription at a time. It wasn't enough better than WoW to get me to switch. If it were free to play, or a single player game (requiring no subscription), I'd probably fire it up quite a bit.
One thing that WoW did, and in my mind is absolutely wonderful, is that it gave a purpose to the "grind". Sure, questing is nothing but going out and killing 10 x's and bringing 20 y's back to town. But at least it's something. I remember grinding in EQ (and Vanguard had very much the same feel, even very early on) for hours on end to gain 10% or 15% of a level. No killing quests or gathering quests. Just flat out slaughtering the same mobs over and over and over. WoW did away with that feeling completely. Even if I only have an hour to play, I can run out, kill 10 or 20 mobs, and finish a quest. It provided a sense of accomplishing something, even if it wasn't much.
I have my gripes with WoW (the overabundance of epics for one), but overall it's still a tremendously enjoyable game. It offers solid-to-excellent gameplay for a variety of playstyles (hardcore raiders, soloers, and pvp). And if something comes along that is more fun, I'll make the jump. But it has to be better. Just "about the same" won't cut it simply because of the time I have invested in WoW. Not to mention the friends I've made (I've been in the same guild three years), and minor upgrades just won't do it.
Have developers tightened up, become afraid to take a chance, failed because they tried to be all things to all people? Certainly. Is all that caused by WoW. Quite often, yes. But that is hardly Blizzard's fault. WoW's a great game, still a ton of fun for me, and something I feel I'm getting my money's worth from. If that changes, I'll look elsewhere. If not, I'll be celebrating those anniversaries every year (four years and counting...).
Four years of WoW? I can believe that for a casual gamer. And that's kind of the point. WoW is a casual game, and IMO that's partly what is unatractive to me, why i never played long. You got nerd fags who play 24/7 and have 6 level 80s, and every good item, meanwhile a casual player is struggling to even hit 80 with one char. But most hardcore people dry out what WoW has to offer quick. So i guess it can go either way.
I agree that you say it's not Blizzard's fault. They set out to make a casual, fun MMO and they succeeded. It's just unfortunate that it has become a staple game for the industry and everyone is trying to mimic it for quick cash. And people new to MMOs think that it is the standard, and MMOs should be just like it. So it brings alot of fags into the community over other games, that just bitch because the game is'nt as polished as WoW, but for some reason are still playing it.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
Division Bell ( best Pink Floyd album) + Ibanez Guitar = divibanez
Runescape was a good game. And Atlantica still is a good game. You are too nieve to see that two free games, who are'nt owned by huge companies could be good. And probly one of those cunts who bitches at low budget free games but never actually trys them. Atlantica and Runescape have better crafting systems than any MMO out there IMO.
Hey folks did you hear?
WoW caused Obesity
WoW caused Cancer
Wow caused Columbine
WoW caused the U.S. economy to fail
WoW caused People to die playing it
WoW tells people and other companies what to do
WoW kills kittens
WoW Drank my milkshake
WoW hates Mudkips
WoW is the leading cause of aids
WoW causes all the universes problems
Ah i feel much better now, i always needed something to blame for everything.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
HeHE GOod OnE!!!
Not!
HeHE GOod OnE!!!
Not!
WoW made this guy hate me T_T
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
People need to stop pretending that MMOs pre WoW were something special.. They were new and different from other genres.. Thats it.
UO was a Gankfest / Grindfest.
EQ was a Grindfest.
DAoC was a Grindfest.
This why WoW is so popular.. Blizzard lessened the grind to where people can progress and have fun along the way. Not that old and tired camp X area for 3 levels then move to Z area for another 4 all the while killing the same area over and over again for weeks at a time.
The only people who seem to care about the old games are the ones still stuck with the elitist attitude even as adults. Then you have others who insist on letting nostalgia dilute there thinking. Nothing is ever what you remember.
Oh and please stop with the whole " community " bit.. Its hilarious. Quit pretending already. UO and EQ were full of idiots too you know. You had people demanding 10p for a teleport after the fact or others who would send you some pretty bad /tells if you happened to be afk while they asked for a SoW.. Morons are in every game but the community is what you make of it and more often than not you attract people that are like you...