The argument was first off whether or not any of the founders of anet where at blizzard when WoW was being made. Clearly this has already been proven, and YOU would be the idiot for try to argue that considering the amount of evidence that supports that being true. Secondly the argument has become whether or not any work was done on WoW specifically by Jeff Strain. There are many news posts articles and quotes that support that. Obviously he isn't credited with being the lead programmer because he wasn't at the time of release. This is incredibly common in the gaming industry, and someone with your far superior amount of knowledge I would think would know this. Honestly stfu stop being a dick and trying to pull the whole "oh i'll just derail threads cause I like wasting peoples time".
Get over yourself and get back on topic.
F2P or P2P ... there are upsides to both... although it doesn't really matter since they have already said it will be F2P. However I rather they switch to P2P instead of adding a cash shop with ingame items and stuff.
No thank you. That really sums most of it up. Some people don't have enough money to pay for a game monthly, but they still enjoy playing it. If you're getting a quality game without a monthly fee... why pay the fee? You want more in-game storage but it costs money. Okay... buy the damn storage when you feel like it. I'm sure it would be cheaper than paying in X amount of $ monthly.
A $2 - $10 fee would be better than $15, I agree. But still. Quality game with no fee > quality game with a fee.
I have always known that one day Free To Play would take over Pay To Play. This is it guys and gals. I remember reading an article about the $15 subs that mmos charge montly and I think only about $3 of that monthly fee actually goes toward the updates / maintanence of the mmo.
It's true.. when you are dealing with companies like Blizzard and Final Fantasy... they have bigger companies to run and thus are using the subscriptions, I would imagine, to help with their company in other areas and not just the game. When you are dealing with a smaller company like ArenaNet.. they might not really need a reason to charge a monthly subscription... makes sense to me.
I know people will disagree, but am I the only one who actually wants this to have a monthly fee? I mean, even if they make it $5 or $10 rather than the general $15. I know this wont be a popular thought, but I always am willing to pay more if it means the company will be able to afford to GIVE more.
Throwing money at them in the hope that it might result in a better product is just ignorant.
It doesnt work like that with a commercial company. You are a potential customer, not an investor. That company wont show a potential customer the details of what they are working on or planning atm.
So if you then decide you are willing to pay a sub, you have no clue if that extra money will provide a better product. To know if it would be an improvement, you need to be able to compare to current project.
I have always known that one day Free To Play would take over Pay To Play. This is it guys and gals. I remember reading an article about the $15 subs that mmos charge montly and I think only about $3 of that monthly fee actually goes toward the updates / maintanence of the mmo.
the whole F2P taking over P2P arguments consist of F2P games that focus their revenue on cash shops. It's interesting to apply this argument to GW's F2P style, but I really don't think its too strong of an argument in that respect.
I have always known that one day Free To Play would take over Pay To Play. This is it guys and gals. I remember reading an article about the $15 subs that mmos charge montly and I think only about $3 of that monthly fee actually goes toward the updates / maintanence of the mmo.
I dont agree. I think that Guild Wars 2 will be an exception again. I think we will see more MMO's that use microtransitions on top of a montly fee. Ppl pay it, so companies will ask it. Somehow there are loads of players who think higher monthly payments automatically leads to higher content quality/quantity. Just take a look at the threads that discuss those new subscription models.
The way I see it, releasing a game of this quality as without-subs is either a motivation for the team, or a show of confidence that they can come up with new, sellable content (in the form of expansions and campaigns every few months, among others).
Well I disagree. I think it forces them to engage more to make quality content if they follow the same "expansion" method they had with GW.
I also feel it's a better way of handling the game since with subs theres no telling how much money you are going to earn. While with sales alone you can speculate better on how many sales you will do and therefore how much money you will have to move around with
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
If they keep releasing expansion packs for GW2 like they did for a few years in GW, then they will not need to charge monthly. I know at least for me, I can't help but purchase the expansions. As for attention to detail, Guild Wars is a wonderful game so...
I would have to say I agree with what quite a few here are saying: No subs means the company has to bust its ass to put a sellable product out. If ANet can give away cash prizes for PvP competitons, they must be making a decent amount of cash without requiring subs. I would rather pay a bit extra for the inital purchase and have a decent game that I dont have to pay for again rather than pay the initial cost then the monthly fees just to play a game that is set up to grind to get more money.
P2P =/= better game. there are a number of P2P games which have either gone F2P or to the great server in the sky (Tabula Rasa being one example) because they havent had the support of the fans due to the game being not overly that good. I trust ANet to put out a good game, one you dont have a sub for, that can prove that most of these P2P games are just cash cows
Don't be fooled by their modest marketing ploy of providing free gameplay - it's their bread and butter and far more profitable from any type of P2P business model, especially with the impending fall of the MMO market with all the titles we are going to see in 2010 that want P2P fees.
Their business model is fitted for the future and with it, they will no doubt be one of the most profitable games in the genre and perhaps even the industry (Save for perhaps the most popular p2p game that people stay on, as they pick between 20+ "next gen" ones).
Just imagine, normal games are made for years in development costs and sold for $59.99 at the end; it's true that one could argue that they don't need bandwidth, but some do offer online play on their own servers.
In any case, if they sold their retail game, annual expansion every 6-12 months at $49.99, and have a cash shop in the same fashion that Guild Wars does to provide more income before they release a content expansion, they are more than rolling in the money and at great lengths. While people are worrying about which game they want to pay, with most only willing to pay for one, they also fear wasting their time from losing their characters when they no longer want to pay due to in real life reasons or whatnot. That's the fear of people in the market - to lose your time and money on a game the toons you invested in.
The marketing ploy of Guild Wars targets this, and as such people buy it in the millions with their brilliant advertisement, and they buy each expansion gladly and without pressure or fear of losing their characters. If they charged any monthly fee it would harm their profits more than anything. I for one wouldn't even give it the time of day as I have five active MMO subscriptions that I'm not willing to leave due to having spent some much time in them (not to mention my lifesubs in LotRO and Champions).
In the long wrong, while it is a nice gesture to offer to pay monthly, it would be of tremendous harm to their theme and make them lose hundres of thousands of followers, cash shop item buyers, expansion purchasers, and give them a bad name in the industry as a bait and switch MMO. They will release more content with patches, but less expansions. It won't be more or less in the end due to this. In addition there will be that fear of losing yoru character from having to pay monthly and people who are tired of it will leave instead of being pulled back in with new expansions.
$49.99
$49.99 annually
Cash Shop purchases
-----------------------------------------
Incredible profit via millions of players.
VS
$49.99
$5-$15 month
------------------------------------------
Much less profit; that is, with the severe loss of people who won't give it the time of day or quit playing it after a while.
What type of games are we to expect soon?
SC2 (B.net 2.0), D3 (B.net 2.0), GW2, FFXIV Online, Cataclysm, Starwars, Tera, C9, M:Heroes, Aion, Ragnarok 2, Fallen Earth, Star Trek Online, Stargate, Alganon, Perfect World (F2P at the moment with 50,000,000 players if their ads are to be trusted; it's such a big number of people using cash shop that I had to put it as GW2 would crush it if it did the same), and much, much more.
Just look at Dungeons and Dragons online and RF Online; they were both P2P but made no money with it and had to resort to Free to Play and Free to Download with a cash shop - it's the future of the MMO Market follow the marketing guidelines that Guildwars set with their expansion every six month to a year while still working on patches for bugs and holidays. No one feels pressure to buy the expansions but they do to have access to the new features and story to play with their friends and guild. Though if they don't want to buy it for a few months they don't have to if things are going on in real life.
This game is presently the most hyped game on MMORPG.com and it is primarily due to this business model and the fans that have been following the first Guild Wars because of it.
Comments
Get over yourself and get back on topic.
F2P or P2P ... there are upsides to both... although it doesn't really matter since they have already said it will be F2P. However I rather they switch to P2P instead of adding a cash shop with ingame items and stuff.
*reads half of the topic*
No thank you. That really sums most of it up. Some people don't have enough money to pay for a game monthly, but they still enjoy playing it. If you're getting a quality game without a monthly fee... why pay the fee? You want more in-game storage but it costs money. Okay... buy the damn storage when you feel like it. I'm sure it would be cheaper than paying in X amount of $ monthly.
A $2 - $10 fee would be better than $15, I agree. But still. Quality game with no fee > quality game with a fee.
I have always known that one day Free To Play would take over Pay To Play. This is it guys and gals. I remember reading an article about the $15 subs that mmos charge montly and I think only about $3 of that monthly fee actually goes toward the updates / maintanence of the mmo.
It's true.. when you are dealing with companies like Blizzard and Final Fantasy... they have bigger companies to run and thus are using the subscriptions, I would imagine, to help with their company in other areas and not just the game. When you are dealing with a smaller company like ArenaNet.. they might not really need a reason to charge a monthly subscription... makes sense to me.
Throwing money at them in the hope that it might result in a better product is just ignorant.
It doesnt work like that with a commercial company. You are a potential customer, not an investor. That company wont show a potential customer the details of what they are working on or planning atm.
So if you then decide you are willing to pay a sub, you have no clue if that extra money will provide a better product. To know if it would be an improvement, you need to be able to compare to current project.
the whole F2P taking over P2P arguments consist of F2P games that focus their revenue on cash shops. It's interesting to apply this argument to GW's F2P style, but I really don't think its too strong of an argument in that respect.
I dont agree. I think that Guild Wars 2 will be an exception again. I think we will see more MMO's that use microtransitions on top of a montly fee. Ppl pay it, so companies will ask it. Somehow there are loads of players who think higher monthly payments automatically leads to higher content quality/quantity. Just take a look at the threads that discuss those new subscription models.
The way I see it, releasing a game of this quality as without-subs is either a motivation for the team, or a show of confidence that they can come up with new, sellable content (in the form of expansions and campaigns every few months, among others).
OP:
Well I disagree. I think it forces them to engage more to make quality content if they follow the same "expansion" method they had with GW.
I also feel it's a better way of handling the game since with subs theres no telling how much money you are going to earn. While with sales alone you can speculate better on how many sales you will do and therefore how much money you will have to move around with
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
If they keep releasing expansion packs for GW2 like they did for a few years in GW, then they will not need to charge monthly. I know at least for me, I can't help but purchase the expansions. As for attention to detail, Guild Wars is a wonderful game so...
your crazy
I would have to say I agree with what quite a few here are saying: No subs means the company has to bust its ass to put a sellable product out. If ANet can give away cash prizes for PvP competitons, they must be making a decent amount of cash without requiring subs. I would rather pay a bit extra for the inital purchase and have a decent game that I dont have to pay for again rather than pay the initial cost then the monthly fees just to play a game that is set up to grind to get more money.
P2P =/= better game. there are a number of P2P games which have either gone F2P or to the great server in the sky (Tabula Rasa being one example) because they havent had the support of the fans due to the game being not overly that good. I trust ANet to put out a good game, one you dont have a sub for, that can prove that most of these P2P games are just cash cows
i have to agree this is one of the few mmos i would pay for, so they should make it p2p so they can give more.
youre not stupid, youre just not too bright.
About the only thing more you can expect out of P2P is grinding
Don't be fooled by their modest marketing ploy of providing free gameplay - it's their bread and butter and far more profitable from any type of P2P business model, especially with the impending fall of the MMO market with all the titles we are going to see in 2010 that want P2P fees.
Their business model is fitted for the future and with it, they will no doubt be one of the most profitable games in the genre and perhaps even the industry (Save for perhaps the most popular p2p game that people stay on, as they pick between 20+ "next gen" ones).
Just imagine, normal games are made for years in development costs and sold for $59.99 at the end; it's true that one could argue that they don't need bandwidth, but some do offer online play on their own servers.
In any case, if they sold their retail game, annual expansion every 6-12 months at $49.99, and have a cash shop in the same fashion that Guild Wars does to provide more income before they release a content expansion, they are more than rolling in the money and at great lengths. While people are worrying about which game they want to pay, with most only willing to pay for one, they also fear wasting their time from losing their characters when they no longer want to pay due to in real life reasons or whatnot. That's the fear of people in the market - to lose your time and money on a game the toons you invested in.
The marketing ploy of Guild Wars targets this, and as such people buy it in the millions with their brilliant advertisement, and they buy each expansion gladly and without pressure or fear of losing their characters. If they charged any monthly fee it would harm their profits more than anything. I for one wouldn't even give it the time of day as I have five active MMO subscriptions that I'm not willing to leave due to having spent some much time in them (not to mention my lifesubs in LotRO and Champions).
In the long wrong, while it is a nice gesture to offer to pay monthly, it would be of tremendous harm to their theme and make them lose hundres of thousands of followers, cash shop item buyers, expansion purchasers, and give them a bad name in the industry as a bait and switch MMO. They will release more content with patches, but less expansions. It won't be more or less in the end due to this. In addition there will be that fear of losing yoru character from having to pay monthly and people who are tired of it will leave instead of being pulled back in with new expansions.
$49.99
$49.99 annually
Cash Shop purchases
-----------------------------------------
Incredible profit via millions of players.
VS
$49.99
$5-$15 month
------------------------------------------
Much less profit; that is, with the severe loss of people who won't give it the time of day or quit playing it after a while.
What type of games are we to expect soon?
SC2 (B.net 2.0), D3 (B.net 2.0), GW2, FFXIV Online, Cataclysm, Starwars, Tera, C9, M:Heroes, Aion, Ragnarok 2, Fallen Earth, Star Trek Online, Stargate, Alganon, Perfect World (F2P at the moment with 50,000,000 players if their ads are to be trusted; it's such a big number of people using cash shop that I had to put it as GW2 would crush it if it did the same), and much, much more.
Just look at Dungeons and Dragons online and RF Online; they were both P2P but made no money with it and had to resort to Free to Play and Free to Download with a cash shop - it's the future of the MMO Market follow the marketing guidelines that Guildwars set with their expansion every six month to a year while still working on patches for bugs and holidays. No one feels pressure to buy the expansions but they do to have access to the new features and story to play with their friends and guild. Though if they don't want to buy it for a few months they don't have to if things are going on in real life.
This game is presently the most hyped game on MMORPG.com and it is primarily due to this business model and the fans that have been following the first Guild Wars because of it.