Originally posted by SpyridonZ Linear was not the issue of AoC, and not being linear was not the strength of WoW
I used those two games as examples because they are both extremely linear themepark games similar to Aion. Noone in their right mind would call either a sandbox game, but like all other MMOs they do have some sandbox elements (optional content, multiple paths to the same goal, etc) to take away from the tedium of levelling.
In AoC, levelling to 80 would be the exact same experience every time except for your class being different. Even those who wanted, and expected to play an extremely linear game were not happy with the levelling process in AoC. Because of the plethora of other problems the game had at launch, this might not be the one problem most people remember, though.
In WoW you have some choice at most levels, and you can work on tradeskills at any level. Levelling an alt or two to see content you missed out on the first time around is entirely possible, and WoW players seem generally happy with the amount of freedom the game gives them. They don't want more choices.
Based on that WoW got the "balance between linear and sandbox" right, while AoC did not. Aion may be more like WoW in that regard, but it doesn't even have a fraction of the sandbox elements it would take to please those that are vocal about the lack of sandbox games on the forums.
Originally posted by Zyonne I used those two games as examples because they are both extremely linear themepark games similar to Aion. Noone in their right mind would call either a sandbox game, but like all other MMOs they do have some sandbox elements (optional content, multiple paths to the same goal, etc) to take away from the tedium of levelling. In AoC, levelling to 80 would be the exact same experience every time except for your class being different. Even those who wanted, and expected to play an extremely linear game were not happy with the levelling process in AoC. Because of the plethora of other problems the game had at launch, this might not be the one problem most people remember, though. In WoW you have some choice at most levels, and you can work on tradeskills at any level. Levelling an alt or two to see content you missed out on the first time around is entirely possible, and WoW players seem generally happy with the amount of freedom the game gives them. They don't want more choices. Based on that WoW got the "balance between linear and sandbox" right, while AoC did not. Aion may be more like WoW in that regard, but it doesn't even have a fraction of the sandbox elements it would take to please those that are vocal about the lack of sandbox games on the forums.
'Sandbox element' is meaningless term, a nonsense.
To make a game sandbox, you don't need any specific features or content, it is how those two interact between each other, towards players and vice versa.
EVE's complex crafting is no more 'sandboxy' if you do not include death penalty, POS wars, research, mission running, plexing, etc. It is how crafting works within wider frame. You remove the frame, you remove the idea.
Regardless of our definition of sandbox, I think we all agree AION isn't a sandbox, the reviewer is either well paid or retarded.
If you actually read the article, he is saying that Aion has sandbox elements. Not that it is sandbox. I acutally like a more linear game anyway. It really makes you feel like your toon is connected to the game. Were as in WOW its all about haow many alts you have have because you can't raid tonight :P
And many of us are saying that the "sandbox elements" he mentions do not qualify as "sandbox."
1) He thinks that the quests given from npc's that are optional = sandbox-like because something is happening in the game world other than the campaign quests.... ummm... the whole notion of a quest-giving npc is THEMEPARK and linear, whether the quest is optional or not... To add insult to injury, one of the lesser points of an otherwise great games is its cookie cutter "kill 10 XYZ's" quest formula... which hearkens back to the THEMEPARK as well.
2) The article crows that exploring Aion's zones give it a very "sandbox" feel. I don't know what game the author is playing, but the zones are *hardly* open to me and I sure don't have an aching desire to explore considering how the zones are constructed. I agree with another poster that the zones are very functional, in that you walk along a path and that going left might take you to some npc's while going right might take you to where you kill mobs for those npc's (frequently the mobs and npc's are in the same place). I guess it's just that the zones are beautiful, they feel somewhat large, but they are not something to point to as far as something that makes you thirst to explore.
With choke points, hills/trees/bolders, clever use of angles... the zones are actually somewhat claustrophobic. Even in the "largest/most open" areas, I feel like I'm in the center of a gym. Sure, there is a lot of open space around me, but I still perceive the walls along the perimeter. I think they did an okay job giving you a sense of space in Aion, but anybody who feels like the zones are very open and invite exploration is smoking some good shit.
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I'm sorry if what I've said seems negative. Believe it or not, I really enjoy Aion and will gladly devote myself to it. I find the world immersive, enjoy the music, and think my legionmates are good sorts and that I will have a great time adventuring with them. However, I don't delude myself into thinking some of the core components of its linearity (standard quest format+a fairly preplanned zone design) are "sandbox elements."
As others rightly point out, the PvP will likely provide some true sandbox elements... but, c'mon. The article seems like "ad copy" to me... especially given the cheesy screenshots (which have what bearing on the writing again?). It feels like a hack job, as if the author was paid off to spin the game as something its not ("hey everybody! check out this game with a good balance of themepark/sandbox!). Or, maybe he's just a fanboi. I don't know. I still find the claims/examples outrageous.
It's a good game with great polish as far as art direction and music goes though. The gameplay is tight, grouping is enjoyable, and the world draws you in. Notice, nowhere in that description have I mentioned that it has sandbox elements. The PvP will likely prove dynamic (i.e., "sandbox-like"), but anybody who feels Aion has a "good balance" between Themepark and Sandbox either doesn't comprehend what those words really mean, is a fool, or has other motives for portraying the game as something it's not.
I used those two games as examples because they are both extremely linear themepark games similar to Aion. Noone in their right mind would call either a sandbox game, but like all other MMOs they do have some sandbox elements (optional content, multiple paths to the same goal, etc) to take away from the tedium of levelling.
In AoC, levelling to 80 would be the exact same experience every time except for your class being different. Even those who wanted, and expected to play an extremely linear game were not happy with the levelling process in AoC. Because of the plethora of other problems the game had at launch, this might not be the one problem most people remember, though.
In WoW you have some choice at most levels, and you can work on tradeskills at any level. Levelling an alt or two to see content you missed out on the first time around is entirely possible, and WoW players seem generally happy with the amount of freedom the game gives them. They don't want more choices.
Based on that WoW got the "balance between linear and sandbox" right, while AoC did not. Aion may be more like WoW in that regard, but it doesn't even have a fraction of the sandbox elements it would take to please those that are vocal about the lack of sandbox games on the forums.
'Sandbox element' is meaningless term, a nonsense.
To make a game sandbox, you don't need any specific features or content, it is how those two interact between each other, towards players and vice versa.
EVE's complex crafting is no more 'sandboxy' if you do not include death penalty, POS wars, research, mission running, plexing, etc.
It is how crafting works within wider frame. You remove the frame, you remove the idea.
I kind of agree, but it's just semantics. As I said in a previous post, I think the article just discusses open-ended versus linear game design and what is done in Aion to make the game feel less linear. Introducing the sandbox term to this discussion just leads to misunderstandings.
That said, there are certain design concepts that are common for most sandbox games, and certain that are common for most themepark games. When something adds to the sense of player freedom in a themepark game, I don't think it's wrong to refer to it as a "sandbox element". Similarly, I don't think it's wrong to describe the introduction of clear goals and guidance to reach those goals in a Sandbox game as a "themepark element". It might not change the overall feel of a game much, but might be enough for a player who prefers sandbox games to enjoy a themepark game, or give a player who prefers themepark games enough guidance to stick with a sandbox game.
Originally posted by Zyonne I kind of agree, but it's just semantics. As I said in a previous post, I think the article just discusses open-ended versus linear game design and what is done in Aion to make the game feel less linear. Introducing the sandbox term to this discussion just leads to misunderstandings.
That said, there are certain design concepts that are common for most sandbox games, and certain that are common for most themepark games. When something adds to the sense of player freedom in a themepark game, I don't think it's wrong to refer to it as a "sandbox element". Similarly, I don't think it's wrong to describe the introduction of clear goals and guidance to reach those goals in a Sandbox game as a "themepark element". It might not change the overall feel of a game much, but might be enough for a player who prefers sandbox games to enjoy a themepark game, or give a player who prefers themepark games enough guidance to stick with a sandbox game.
I should not have quoted you since it was not really aimed at you directly. My apologies.
I wouldn't say it is just semantics when you do not use proper terms for description. Not only it is misleading but it looks ridiculous and unproffesional especialy comming from gaming website staff.
The big thing that killed my enthuiasm for Aion was when I was running quests in the 15's or so. The landscape was pretty, but in many ways it may have as well have been a canyon. The pathing was painfully painfully obvious.
Plus after a while, the lack of flight areas really bugged me, espically in the first zone. You can fly here, now you can't. Just felt weird. Plus it doesn't help that practically any time you read about the game or listen to an interview they are always gushing about flight like it is a brand new innovation. Flight this and flight that, and don't forget flight! Really? Because I can fly in Champions Online or City of Heroes. All the time. Anywhere. As much as I want...
I know flight isn't quite on topic, but in many ways it does lend itself to this arguement. If Aion was more of a sandbox game, then I think you could just fly wherever you wanted. Maybe still have a flight timer, but there is no reason that you ca't fly in the woods off of the Asmodian city, other than they want you to have to fight through enemies instead of traveling to point A fast. You can fly in some spots, but only where allowed. In all the other areas you do not even have an option. In my opinion, flight in Aion is a more linear feature.
Maybe it opens up more in later areas. I would hope that you can fly all over the Abyss for example.
If you want a TRUE sandbox MMO, I point you at Wurm Online. Go play that for a month and then come back and tell me you really want a sandbox. In Wurm you can literally change the landscape. Want to dig a hole through a mountain? You can. Want to build a city, go for it! I found it fascinating...and yet tedious hehe.
The big thing that killed my enthuiasm for Aion was when I was running quests in the 15's or so. The landscape was pretty, but in many ways it may have as well have been a canyon. The pathing was painfully painfully obvious. Plus after a while, the lack of flight areas really bugged me, espically in the first zone. You can fly here, now you can't. Just felt weird. Plus it doesn't help that practically any time you read about the game or listen to an interview they are always gushing about flight like it is a brand new innovation. Flight this and flight that, and don't forget flight! Really? Because I can fly in Champions Online or City of Heroes. All the time. Anywhere. As much as I want... I know flight isn't quite on topic, but in many ways it does lend itself to this arguement. If Aion was more of a sandbox game, then I think you could just fly wherever you wanted. Maybe still have a flight timer, but there is no reason that you ca't fly in the woods off of the Asmodian city, other than they want you to have to fight through enemies instead of traveling to point A fast. You can fly in some spots, but only where allowed. In all the other areas you do not even have an option. In my opinion, flight in Aion is a more linear feature. Maybe it opens up more in later areas. I would hope that you can fly all over the Abyss for example.
From what I hear, the Abyss you can fly nearly everywhere, and you have much longer flight time while you are there as well. The only places you can NOT fly, are when you are directly approaching a fortress during a siege. I hear they have some choke points strategically placed around fortresses to encourage some tactical battles for the forts - which is why you cant fly when you are directly sieging. But 99% of the abyss is supposed to be flight-enabled, and encouraged.
I definately understand the dissapointment with linear leveling though, but these days I do not expect anything else from a game that is not designed as a full sandbox - over 90% of MMO's are linear leveling these days - not just the asian themed ones (like some people in this thread are suggesting).
i agree with Oz "Where do you get these wing ding ideas?" dang Oz ??? You did not have to slap MR So & So... with your own passion filled opinions and aspects on "Aion" i think you enjoyed to give a bloody lashing to the people that can not see the difference between a sandbox game and a more ethereal as AION is in my opinion AION has surpassed every game out there to this day im a BLIZZARD fan but i will not be going to DIABLO lll or SC 2 .!.
and i cant say there ever will be a better game than DAoC.!
"OZ"
Aion is a well done theme park. Let's leave it at that.
I agree Oz... BUT, all in all we do know, there is always going to be a few bugs!
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
The big thing that killed my enthuiasm for Aion was when I was running quests in the 15's or so. The landscape was pretty, but in many ways it may have as well have been a canyon. The pathing was painfully painfully obvious. Plus after a while, the lack of flight areas really bugged me, espically in the first zone. You can fly here, now you can't. Just felt weird. Plus it doesn't help that practically any time you read about the game or listen to an interview they are always gushing about flight like it is a brand new innovation. Flight this and flight that, and don't forget flight! Really? Because I can fly in Champions Online or City of Heroes. All the time. Anywhere. As much as I want... I know flight isn't quite on topic, but in many ways it does lend itself to this arguement. If Aion was more of a sandbox game, then I think you could just fly wherever you wanted. Maybe still have a flight timer, but there is no reason that you ca't fly in the woods off of the Asmodian city, other than they want you to have to fight through enemies instead of traveling to point A fast. You can fly in some spots, but only where allowed. In all the other areas you do not even have an option. In my opinion, flight in Aion is a more linear feature. Maybe it opens up more in later areas. I would hope that you can fly all over the Abyss for example.
From what I hear, the Abyss you can fly nearly everywhere, and you have much longer flight time while you are there as well. The only places you can NOT fly, are when you are directly approaching a fortress during a siege. I hear they have some choke points strategically placed around fortresses to encourage some tactical battles for the forts - which is why you cant fly when you are directly sieging. But 99% of the abyss is supposed to be flight-enabled, and encouraged.
I definately understand the dissapointment with linear leveling though, but these days I do not expect anything else from a game that is not designed as a full sandbox - over 90% of MMO's are linear leveling these days - not just the asian themed ones (like some people in this thread are suggesting).
yes you can fly more but not all the time comparing this to COH is like comparing a bigstick to a regular ice-pop... true we can not fly as much... also AION is not a game that give us as much difficulty in campaigns as Dark age of Camelot did, but so what stop crying in time they will fix it you think they want to lose out to D lll or some other MMO!??? NO they do not.
as for the asian themed one's they always seem to be the best one's ! hands down, nough said lol .!. some one also was bringing attention that the lower quests seem simply maped out... i know what you mean but not every one like to go looking for something for 3 hours for a stupid standard quest... and some one spoke of landscape what about it so it seems in areas very open and in others very nice im not here to be the GRFX 'Artist Dick' to say damn we need more details in GRFX in landscapes NO im not into like landscape so much! give me more special effects in spells and spealization to make each person unique in looks as their doing!
although i do wish we got a guide from the company ! it be nice for useing shards and crafting and other things, making a choice on who is what and what they do.
Your right the comparisons are not fair, but since you got in to it anyway...
Sure you can keep flying in CoH/CO, but neither of those games were designed for PvP - they are PvE centric with some PvP in addition.
I like Aion and have played beta and will play when launch, but I do have to say I don't see an actual sandbox feature. I mean you still get to choose what to do outside of fighting and questing, but nothing really push it into the zone of sandbox, actually not even close. I am just being fair here, I don't want Aion to be suffer from too much hype.
I do have to say PvPvE in the Abyss sounds exciting enough. Aion in my view would be a normal linear game that offers more choices than pure linear, but the path stay straight forward. However, the true appeal of Aion would have to be that once you get into PvP and higher boss PvE. The game becomes much more interesting, and the balancing work NCsoft done this time is rather impressive. This is not taking in account of player hacking and all the abuse of exploits, since those are really more of player's own behavior and not NCsoft's. As long as they do better management of bots, I am pretty certain it will entertain me for quite a while if not becoming a stable game for me all together.
You also can't make a mistake with your character as they progress so no real need to re-roll, customization is all based on how you socket and obtain equipments and Stigmas. Only reason to re-roll would be a different class anyways.
The words sandbox and Aion should never be used in the same sentence. It is the easiest and most linear MMO I've ever played. It's a straight line from lvl1 to lvl17 (furthest as I muster the strengh to get to). It's has it's strenghts and I'm sure things will be more interesting in the Abyss, but it just wasn't for me.
i agree with Oz "Where do you get these wing ding ideas?" dang Oz ??? You did not have to slap MR So & So... with your own passion filled opinions and aspects on "Aion" i think you enjoyed to give a bloody lashing to the people that can not see the difference between a sandbox game and a more ethereal as AION is in my opinion AION has surpassed every game out there to this day im a BLIZZARD fan but i will not be going to DIABLO lll or SC 2 .!.
and i cant say there ever will be a better game than DAoC.! "OZ" Aion is a well done theme park. Let's leave it at that.
I agree Oz... BUT, all in all we do know, there is always going to be a few bugs!
All these colors, centered text and large font does not help you getting your points across, I for one am not going to try and read them. Besides that, I find it pretty rude, it is almost as bad as someone typing in all caps.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
i agree with Oz "Where do you get these wing ding ideas?" dang Oz ??? You did not have to slap MR So & So... with your own passion filled opinions and aspects on "Aion" i think you enjoyed to give a bloody lashing to the people that can not see the difference between a sandbox game and a more ethereal as AION is in my opinion AION has surpassed every game out there to this day im a BLIZZARD fan but i will not be going to DIABLO lll or SC 2 .!.
and i cant say there ever will be a better game than DAoC.! "OZ" Aion is a well done theme park. Let's leave it at that.
I agree Oz... BUT, all in all we do know, there is always going to be a few bugs!
All these colors, centered text and large font does not help you getting your points across, I for one am not going to try and read them. Besides that, I find it pretty rude, it is almost as bad as someone typing in all caps.
Do i give a rats arse what your opinion is when it is not pertaining to AION or a game topic in general... dude yourself a favor go away !
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
I guess when someone doesn't have anything of use or interest to say, he uses bright colours and pictures to gain attention. Still leaves it without use or interest though.
HAPPY NOW?
what is it with you people attacking others, for your own gratification, does it give you a hard on ? you must have a retarded issue in your life iff you need and feel you must point things out on me my GOD this is not what the boards are for ... i'l retract my COLOR use and posting things that don't DIrrectly pertain to AION ... my Lord there goes of speach. DeDeDe!
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
I haven't posted so far, I'm just doing it to say that the coloured big fonts were actually harder to read, so I kind of skipped them. I'm responding to this uncoloured last response, because it was easier to read. Thanks for that change.
I haven't posted so far, I'm just doing it to say that the coloured big fonts were actually harder to read, so I kind of skipped them. I'm responding to this uncoloured last response, because it was easier to read. Thanks for that change.
well i thank you for being honest... when the other chaps had their say i thought they were just looking for some one to slap around and disgrace in a forum. i apreciate your post and honest feed back i will keep the AION posts to a issue based topic.
Long live Azmodea!!!
PS: forgive my typos im handicapped.
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
Agreed, not only do i think that the author has no clue what a sadbox is, it seems that neither does NCsoft.
Nothing against aion, or theme park games, ill be enjoying aion come launch, but dont call it a blend of linear gameplay and sandbox elements.
The world is very linear in aion, and the campaign quest assure you dont stray too far off the designed path.
Distinct role classes, with distinct and very limited equipment choices.
Absolutly no character building aspects, i cant make a CC mage or a pvp dd mage, i can only make a mage (and then sub class it) No stat control, no skill control, just equipment upgrades and limited skill upgrades via sigils (wait is it sigils or am i confusing that with tcos...whatever they call it in this game)
The fact is, when you create your character, and choose its class, your future in aion is set in stone already, which is anything but sandbox.
I think the sad truth is that no game will ever be really successfull as a true sandbox. kids dont want to be dropped of into a world with no guidence, no path to follow, no quest locators on the mini maps so they dont have to listen to the npcs or read quest text. After all, you cant roll the best pvp class when there are no classes...can you now...
After playing OB, I feel the writer is justified by saying he feels it is balanced. I liked both aspects of the Linear and Sand box as he described. I found in wow and others, you lost the sense of the story and just went around killing monsters and pvp with absolutely no idea why you were actually doing this, which got tedious after awhile. By making sure you continue the storyline thru the mission quests, I felt there was a purpose to the game and a reason for end results. I have created my chars, belong to a great guild, and look forward to pre-start, even tho I know its going to be mass of madness that day.
Comments
I used those two games as examples because they are both extremely linear themepark games similar to Aion. Noone in their right mind would call either a sandbox game, but like all other MMOs they do have some sandbox elements (optional content, multiple paths to the same goal, etc) to take away from the tedium of levelling.
In AoC, levelling to 80 would be the exact same experience every time except for your class being different. Even those who wanted, and expected to play an extremely linear game were not happy with the levelling process in AoC. Because of the plethora of other problems the game had at launch, this might not be the one problem most people remember, though.
In WoW you have some choice at most levels, and you can work on tradeskills at any level. Levelling an alt or two to see content you missed out on the first time around is entirely possible, and WoW players seem generally happy with the amount of freedom the game gives them. They don't want more choices.
Based on that WoW got the "balance between linear and sandbox" right, while AoC did not. Aion may be more like WoW in that regard, but it doesn't even have a fraction of the sandbox elements it would take to please those that are vocal about the lack of sandbox games on the forums.
'Sandbox element' is meaningless term, a nonsense.
To make a game sandbox, you don't need any specific features or content, it is how those two interact between each other, towards players and vice versa.
EVE's complex crafting is no more 'sandboxy' if you do not include death penalty, POS wars, research, mission running, plexing, etc.
It is how crafting works within wider frame. You remove the frame, you remove the idea.
If you actually read the article, he is saying that Aion has sandbox elements. Not that it is sandbox. I acutally like a more linear game anyway. It really makes you feel like your toon is connected to the game. Were as in WOW its all about haow many alts you have have because you can't raid tonight :P
And many of us are saying that the "sandbox elements" he mentions do not qualify as "sandbox."
1) He thinks that the quests given from npc's that are optional = sandbox-like because something is happening in the game world other than the campaign quests.... ummm... the whole notion of a quest-giving npc is THEMEPARK and linear, whether the quest is optional or not... To add insult to injury, one of the lesser points of an otherwise great games is its cookie cutter "kill 10 XYZ's" quest formula... which hearkens back to the THEMEPARK as well.
2) The article crows that exploring Aion's zones give it a very "sandbox" feel. I don't know what game the author is playing, but the zones are *hardly* open to me and I sure don't have an aching desire to explore considering how the zones are constructed. I agree with another poster that the zones are very functional, in that you walk along a path and that going left might take you to some npc's while going right might take you to where you kill mobs for those npc's (frequently the mobs and npc's are in the same place). I guess it's just that the zones are beautiful, they feel somewhat large, but they are not something to point to as far as something that makes you thirst to explore.
With choke points, hills/trees/bolders, clever use of angles... the zones are actually somewhat claustrophobic. Even in the "largest/most open" areas, I feel like I'm in the center of a gym. Sure, there is a lot of open space around me, but I still perceive the walls along the perimeter. I think they did an okay job giving you a sense of space in Aion, but anybody who feels like the zones are very open and invite exploration is smoking some good shit.
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I'm sorry if what I've said seems negative. Believe it or not, I really enjoy Aion and will gladly devote myself to it. I find the world immersive, enjoy the music, and think my legionmates are good sorts and that I will have a great time adventuring with them. However, I don't delude myself into thinking some of the core components of its linearity (standard quest format+a fairly preplanned zone design) are "sandbox elements."
As others rightly point out, the PvP will likely provide some true sandbox elements... but, c'mon. The article seems like "ad copy" to me... especially given the cheesy screenshots (which have what bearing on the writing again?). It feels like a hack job, as if the author was paid off to spin the game as something its not ("hey everybody! check out this game with a good balance of themepark/sandbox!). Or, maybe he's just a fanboi. I don't know. I still find the claims/examples outrageous.
It's a good game with great polish as far as art direction and music goes though. The gameplay is tight, grouping is enjoyable, and the world draws you in. Notice, nowhere in that description have I mentioned that it has sandbox elements. The PvP will likely prove dynamic (i.e., "sandbox-like"), but anybody who feels Aion has a "good balance" between Themepark and Sandbox either doesn't comprehend what those words really mean, is a fool, or has other motives for portraying the game as something it's not.
'Sandbox element' is meaningless term, a nonsense.
To make a game sandbox, you don't need any specific features or content, it is how those two interact between each other, towards players and vice versa.
EVE's complex crafting is no more 'sandboxy' if you do not include death penalty, POS wars, research, mission running, plexing, etc.
It is how crafting works within wider frame. You remove the frame, you remove the idea.
I kind of agree, but it's just semantics. As I said in a previous post, I think the article just discusses open-ended versus linear game design and what is done in Aion to make the game feel less linear. Introducing the sandbox term to this discussion just leads to misunderstandings.
That said, there are certain design concepts that are common for most sandbox games, and certain that are common for most themepark games. When something adds to the sense of player freedom in a themepark game, I don't think it's wrong to refer to it as a "sandbox element". Similarly, I don't think it's wrong to describe the introduction of clear goals and guidance to reach those goals in a Sandbox game as a "themepark element". It might not change the overall feel of a game much, but might be enough for a player who prefers sandbox games to enjoy a themepark game, or give a player who prefers themepark games enough guidance to stick with a sandbox game.
I should not have quoted you since it was not really aimed at you directly.
My apologies.
I wouldn't say it is just semantics when you do not use proper terms for description.
Not only it is misleading but it looks ridiculous and unproffesional especialy comming from gaming website staff.
The big thing that killed my enthuiasm for Aion was when I was running quests in the 15's or so. The landscape was pretty, but in many ways it may have as well have been a canyon. The pathing was painfully painfully obvious.
Plus after a while, the lack of flight areas really bugged me, espically in the first zone. You can fly here, now you can't. Just felt weird. Plus it doesn't help that practically any time you read about the game or listen to an interview they are always gushing about flight like it is a brand new innovation. Flight this and flight that, and don't forget flight! Really? Because I can fly in Champions Online or City of Heroes. All the time. Anywhere. As much as I want...
I know flight isn't quite on topic, but in many ways it does lend itself to this arguement. If Aion was more of a sandbox game, then I think you could just fly wherever you wanted. Maybe still have a flight timer, but there is no reason that you ca't fly in the woods off of the Asmodian city, other than they want you to have to fight through enemies instead of traveling to point A fast. You can fly in some spots, but only where allowed. In all the other areas you do not even have an option. In my opinion, flight in Aion is a more linear feature.
Maybe it opens up more in later areas. I would hope that you can fly all over the Abyss for example.
If you want a TRUE sandbox MMO, I point you at Wurm Online. Go play that for a month and then come back and tell me you really want a sandbox. In Wurm you can literally change the landscape. Want to dig a hole through a mountain? You can. Want to build a city, go for it! I found it fascinating...and yet tedious hehe.
From what I hear, the Abyss you can fly nearly everywhere, and you have much longer flight time while you are there as well. The only places you can NOT fly, are when you are directly approaching a fortress during a siege. I hear they have some choke points strategically placed around fortresses to encourage some tactical battles for the forts - which is why you cant fly when you are directly sieging. But 99% of the abyss is supposed to be flight-enabled, and encouraged.
I definately understand the dissapointment with linear leveling though, but these days I do not expect anything else from a game that is not designed as a full sandbox - over 90% of MMO's are linear leveling these days - not just the asian themed ones (like some people in this thread are suggesting).
i agree with Oz "Where do you get these wing ding ideas?" dang Oz ??? You did not have to slap MR So & So... with your own passion filled opinions and aspects on "Aion" i think you enjoyed to give a bloody lashing to the people that can not see the difference between a sandbox game and a more ethereal as AION is in my opinion AION has surpassed every game out there to this day im a BLIZZARD fan but i will not be going to DIABLO lll or SC 2 .!.
and i cant say there ever will be a better game than DAoC.!
"OZ"
Aion is a well done theme park. Let's leave it at that.
I agree Oz... BUT, all in all we do know, there is always going to be a few bugs!
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
From what I hear, the Abyss you can fly nearly everywhere, and you have much longer flight time while you are there as well. The only places you can NOT fly, are when you are directly approaching a fortress during a siege. I hear they have some choke points strategically placed around fortresses to encourage some tactical battles for the forts - which is why you cant fly when you are directly sieging. But 99% of the abyss is supposed to be flight-enabled, and encouraged.
I definately understand the dissapointment with linear leveling though, but these days I do not expect anything else from a game that is not designed as a full sandbox - over 90% of MMO's are linear leveling these days - not just the asian themed ones (like some people in this thread are suggesting).
yes you can fly more but not all the time comparing this to COH is like comparing a bigstick to a regular ice-pop... true we can not fly as much... also AION is not a game that give us as much difficulty in campaigns as Dark age of Camelot did, but so what stop crying in time they will fix it you think they want to lose out to D lll or some other MMO!??? NO they do not.
as for the asian themed one's they always seem to be the best one's ! hands down, nough said lol .!. some one also was bringing attention that the lower quests seem simply maped out... i know what you mean but not every one like to go looking for something for 3 hours for a stupid standard quest... and some one spoke of landscape what about it so it seems in areas very open and in others very nice im not here to be the GRFX 'Artist Dick' to say damn we need more details in GRFX in landscapes NO im not into like landscape so much! give me more special effects in spells and spealization to make each person unique in looks as their doing!
although i do wish we got a guide from the company ! it be nice for useing shards and crafting and other things, making a choice on who is what and what they do.
Your right the comparisons are not fair, but since you got in to it anyway...
Sure you can keep flying in CoH/CO, but neither of those games were designed for PvP - they are PvE centric with some PvP in addition.
I like Aion and have played beta and will play when launch, but I do have to say I don't see an actual sandbox feature. I mean you still get to choose what to do outside of fighting and questing, but nothing really push it into the zone of sandbox, actually not even close. I am just being fair here, I don't want Aion to be suffer from too much hype.
I do have to say PvPvE in the Abyss sounds exciting enough. Aion in my view would be a normal linear game that offers more choices than pure linear, but the path stay straight forward. However, the true appeal of Aion would have to be that once you get into PvP and higher boss PvE. The game becomes much more interesting, and the balancing work NCsoft done this time is rather impressive. This is not taking in account of player hacking and all the abuse of exploits, since those are really more of player's own behavior and not NCsoft's. As long as they do better management of bots, I am pretty certain it will entertain me for quite a while if not becoming a stable game for me all together.
You also can't make a mistake with your character as they progress so no real need to re-roll, customization is all based on how you socket and obtain equipments and Stigmas. Only reason to re-roll would be a different class anyways.
The words sandbox and Aion should never be used in the same sentence. It is the easiest and most linear MMO I've ever played. It's a straight line from lvl1 to lvl17 (furthest as I muster the strengh to get to). It's has it's strenghts and I'm sure things will be more interesting in the Abyss, but it just wasn't for me.
All these colors, centered text and large font does not help you getting your points across, I for one am not going to try and read them. Besides that, I find it pretty rude, it is almost as bad as someone typing in all caps.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
All these colors, centered text and large font does not help you getting your points across, I for one am not going to try and read them. Besides that, I find it pretty rude, it is almost as bad as someone typing in all caps.
Do i give a rats arse what your opinion is when it is not pertaining to AION or a game topic in general... dude yourself a favor go away !
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
I guess when someone doesn't have anything of use or interest to say, he uses bright colours and pictures to gain attention.
Still leaves it without use or interest though.
HAPPY NOW?
what is it with you people attacking others, for your own gratification, does it give you a hard on ? you must have a retarded issue in your life iff you need and feel you must point things out on me my GOD this is not what the boards are for ... i'l retract my COLOR use and posting things that don't DIrrectly pertain to AION ... my Lord there goes of speach. DeDeDe!
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
I haven't posted so far, I'm just doing it to say that the coloured big fonts were actually harder to read, so I kind of skipped them. I'm responding to this uncoloured last response, because it was easier to read. Thanks for that change.
well i thank you for being honest... when the other chaps had their say i thought they were just looking for some one to slap around and disgrace in a forum. i apreciate your post and honest feed back i will keep the AION posts to a issue based topic.
Long live Azmodea!!!
PS: forgive my typos im handicapped.
Have played: Asheron's Call, Champions Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lord of the Rings Online, RF Online, Rohan: Blood Feud, Shaiya, Ultima Online, Warhammer, WoW and SC, BW, D1, Diablo 1 expantion, D2, D2x, Warcraft 2, & 3 !
The author doesn't seem to understand what a sandbox is, and is basically describing your standard theme park mmo, such as WoW and related clones.
Agreed, not only do i think that the author has no clue what a sadbox is, it seems that neither does NCsoft.
Nothing against aion, or theme park games, ill be enjoying aion come launch, but dont call it a blend of linear gameplay and sandbox elements.
The world is very linear in aion, and the campaign quest assure you dont stray too far off the designed path.
Distinct role classes, with distinct and very limited equipment choices.
Absolutly no character building aspects, i cant make a CC mage or a pvp dd mage, i can only make a mage (and then sub class it) No stat control, no skill control, just equipment upgrades and limited skill upgrades via sigils (wait is it sigils or am i confusing that with tcos...whatever they call it in this game)
The fact is, when you create your character, and choose its class, your future in aion is set in stone already, which is anything but sandbox.
I think the sad truth is that no game will ever be really successfull as a true sandbox. kids dont want to be dropped of into a world with no guidence, no path to follow, no quest locators on the mini maps so they dont have to listen to the npcs or read quest text. After all, you cant roll the best pvp class when there are no classes...can you now...
After playing OB, I feel the writer is justified by saying he feels it is balanced. I liked both aspects of the Linear and Sand box as he described. I found in wow and others, you lost the sense of the story and just went around killing monsters and pvp with absolutely no idea why you were actually doing this, which got tedious after awhile. By making sure you continue the storyline thru the mission quests, I felt there was a purpose to the game and a reason for end results. I have created my chars, belong to a great guild, and look forward to pre-start, even tho I know its going to be mass of madness that day.
omg-do I have to do this?