Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
ATTN: Parents considering World of Warcraft
NeptuneBlue
Member Posts: 4
I recently played through 2 weeks of a 30-day trial period of World of Warcraft. Like many parents, I wanted to actually see the game for myself, FIRST, before letting my oldest son play it (14 y/o). I have to say the game itself was great. It had lots of content and choices, a nice look to it, a very polished game overall. I particularly liked the art style of the game. If any of you remember the “Spyro the Dragon” games, this is from the same company, Blizzard, so that same colorful style exists in this game as well.
My problem wasn’t with the game, but rather privacy concerns. As anyone knows, prior to installing just about any game or software, you have to agree to a EULA (End User License agreement) or TOS (Terms of Service, or Terms of Use) agreement. Well, the more I read through Blizzard’s TOS, the more concerned I became. Agreeing to their TOS and EULA essentially gives them access to every piece of hardware and software on your PC, and allows them to, in particular, read data from your hard drive and monitor programs running on your PC’s RAM (memory). This is done as a method of cheat detection, but unfortunately also grants them access to any sensitive information on your PC. Now, I doubt they would really want to know where my kids go to school, or see my bank account passwords or medical history, but unfortunately, it leaves the possibility that this data COULD be collected from my PC and sent to them. The problem here is obvious: If that data is intercepted, or stolen from their end, then it could prove to be harmful.
Anyone who has watched the news has seen incidents where data from millions of accounts has been stolen from Banks and ISPs. Not to mention the privacy concerns any parent has. It’s bad enough that we have all of that data out there, it’s worse if you don't even know about it. It’s very simple: As a parent I became concerned enough about Blizzard’s “data collection” that I cancelled the account, uninstalled their program, reformatted my hard drive, and reinstalled my operating system. I wanted absolutely no trace of their programs left on my hard drive. There’s just simply no way that I could allow any company to have that much access to the wealth of personal and work-related information on my PC. I’m sorry, but I just don’t trust any company that much.
Anyway, just a head’s-up to any other concerned parents out there. If your kids are playing World of Warcraft, particularly on a “family” PC, I urge you to go to Blizzard’s website and read through their Terms of Use agreement and EULA very carefully:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
Also remember to use a good Firewall and Anit-virus program, and keep them up-to-date.
Comments
old news is old.
if you put anything on your computer and connect it to the internet, it's at risk.
ok
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
So true. Unfortunately, for many of us it's "new." Like many parents, I simply did not have a full appreciation of the things I (and my kids) were putting on our PC.
My computer is for gaming. And I dont pay for games with a credit card. So I think im relatively safe. I feel, however, that you're being just a bit paranoid. I mean, by subscribing to blizzard, you're already giving them your credit card information, your name, address and phone number. Unlocking the door to your computer to them is nothing compared to that.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
use pre-paid credit card if they dont support it move never NEVER PUT your personal credit card info online
My children's safety is much more valuable to me than any credit card.
its recommended in a book or was shown in the tv if i recall
why ? amongst other pedophile, and pimp(pedophile)
yep welcome to 2009 lot of silly guys roam the web like a predator .bad you can say that again its worst then bad
cant do anything against them ,they dont get cot.so yes parent now have to police what kids do just in case their kids are victim and are affraid of their oppressor
Rather than shelter their children from the real world, many parents will educate them on how to best deal with the dangers around them, virtual or otherwise.
hmmm, I think you are being a little bit over-cautious.
As someone else said, every time you connect to the internet you are wide open for some sort of invastion. Heck, I have a friend who is mr. security, passwords, works in computers and even he got a really bad virus/keylogger on his machine.
You can of course do what I do. My pc is for games. Period. My other computer is for everything else.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I apologize. I didn't realize that posting what I thought was helpful information for any parent, would result in a personal attack of my parenting skills. I thought this site was about posting reviews.
I am solely responsible for my children and their safety; not anyone else posting on this thread. Why don't we let the parents out there decide for themselves?
Agreed. Also if anything, kids younger than 17 at least shouldn't be playing this (or any MMO for that matter) due to the amount of abuse and foul langauge other players and guilds bestow on other players. Especially new players. Yes you can argue that there is a language filter and such, but 99.9% of the players never use it anyway and my cousin when he was 10 figured out how to turn it off when I still played WoW.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
My children's safety is much more valuable to me than any credit card.
Tin hats on standby.. your over reacting. The guy who comes by my work every day selling sandwiches know more about me than Blizzard do.
Blizzard will not and cannot open up a word document extract information and send it to themselves, open up a spread sheet and see that you spend $100 a month on bread, they don't have software that searches out bank account numbers, addresses, they cannot take images, documents etc and send them to themselves.
While playing WoW a blizzard employee cannot remote your PC and take a look at all your files.
The system (known as warden) takes a look at what programs your running (not the data in/on those programs but the .exe name, location within the system memory and other techy stuff) only while playing WoW. The system only send information such as window titles and names of programs being run if your cheating.
The EULA and TOS are standard legal blah blah, all cheat detection software works in the same way.
If your still concerned read this http://www.wow.com/2009/03/09/computerworld-on-blizzards-warden-at-work/
Well, first of all I wouldn't take anything that anyone says about your parenting skills personally. This is a game forum so you will meet people who will always have some different opinions. And many of them might not be parents and are actually reacting like if they were a kid being reprimanded.
In today's" hands-off parenting world" it is good to see that you are taking an active interest in your kids. However my personal opinion, for what it is worth is that you can also do more good than bad if you don't achieve some sort of balance. My own mother was over protective and it caused me all sorts of grief when I was younger and quite frankly did more harm than good. Of course she was a single mother so she had her plate full but in the end she let her own fears, personal fears, get in the way of what was good parenting.
I have no problems with parents NOT letting their kids play video games. This is a very valid decision. heck, some of the best kids I know don't play. However I also know a few amazing kids who do play and play with their parents full knowledge of what they are doing. Heck, one of the most impressive kids I have EVER met plays LOTRO (lord of the rings online) and judging from his intelligence, manners and academics this kid will be a star.
but you need to make a decision based upon full knowledge and not just a fear that "something" might happen. Being informed and being there is more important, in my opinion, than shutting out a good part of the world because there might be a chance that "something" will happen.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good post. Good information.
This is rich. All these parents trying to shelter their kids from the world. 17? Are you fucking kidding me? Lawl. If your kid is 17 and doesn't know so much as a couple of swears they're in for quite a shock when they get into the real world.
Let the poor kids off the teet, for heaven's sake. Let them experience what the world has to offer, instead of what you think the world is best to offer. Kids that get sheltered that much end up being basket case momma-boys. They're incapable of living on thier own. Enjoy having a 35 year old, single, fat kid living in your basement. Awesome parenting!
And no, I'm not a parent. I'm a child (17, ironically), and I can't imagine living in a box. Nothing is black and white in this world, guys. Everything is a beautiful shade of gray. No right, no wrong. Labelling anything as such is blind, and probably the worse thing you could ever do for your child. Allow them to enjoy the world while they can.
My children's safety is much more valuable to me than any credit card.
Tin hats on standby.. your over reacting. The guy who comes by my work every day selling sandwiches know more about me than Blizzard do.
Blizzard will not and cannot open up a word document extract information and send it to themselves, open up a spread sheet and see that you spend $100 a month on bread, they don't have software that searches out bank account numbers, addresses, they cannot take images, documents etc and send them to themselves.
While playing WoW a blizzard employee cannot remote your PC and take a look at all your files.
The system (known as warden) takes a look at what programs your running (not the data in/on those programs but the .exe name, location within the system memory and other techy stuff) only while playing WoW. The system only send information such as window titles and names of programs being run if your cheating.
The EULA and TOS are standard legal blah blah, all cheat detection software works in the same way.
If your still concerned read this http://www.wow.com/2009/03/09/computerworld-on-blizzards-warden-at-work/
Warden Is Blizzards version of GG. But no one bitches about that. (Had to say it sorry)
That aside. What Coffee said is true. Yes it sees what programs your running and collects a little information about those programs but it doesn't open them up. Nor do they remote control your PC.
Just look at it this way. You are clinically insane if you believe Blizzard watches all 11 million subs playing their game. They don't have 11 million employees sitting at a desk looking at everyone's pc as they log into the game. Thats just..... pointless. Besides if it was an issue, the game would have never made it past the first year. Let alone 5 lol.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
What the EULA and TOS are saying is that while the game is running, Blizzard's anti-hack program, Warden, will be running. Warden monitors for any program that is trying to modify packets sent to the server or give any advantage to a player. If you want to be paranoid, you can, but I suggest you never play any online game.
Also, Spyro is by Sierra, another company that was absorbed by Vivendi along with Blizzard, but Spyro was made by Sierra.
You obviously didn't play with other kids in your neighborhood.....I'm parent of two girls, 1 16 year-old and 1 12 year-old and they both played WoW on and off over a 4 year period. I told them not to talk with anyone about personal things, do not add people to your friend's list and already had a established family-friendly guild they both joined (1 I created and populated with RL friends)
I knew that there were risk involved, but a 10 year-old girl in Chicago was shot while watching TV in her room (the bullet passed through their house and struck her in the head). So I see no danger to allowing my kids to enjoy something they obviously see me and their mom enjoying. I gave them the tools required to protect themselves and let them be kids. But having hoverbots as parents does more harm than good, because soon as they hit the real world, they won't now what hit them.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I think you countered your own argument. If there is no right or wrong and everything is a beautiful shade of gray then anything that she does can be considered just one of those shades. Also, i was 17 twice and a little extra ago so I know full well that what you are at 17 is not exactly a full adult. I know you think so and I even thought so but the reality, unless you come from some very hard social place or country, is a bit different.
having said that, you are correct in that 17 is no longer a time to flex the parenting muscles in a way that one would do so at 10.
A 17 year old might not have the experience or life wisdom that a full on adult might have but their mind, that engine, is already in motion. A 17 year old can't be parented like a kid. Just like a 30 year old can't be parented like a kid by their 60+ parents.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No doubt, at the age of 23 i've seen some really dubious shit that this day and age have to offer and trust me you deffinitly wanna police what goes on with your children 100% of the time, especialy internet. If I had a kid I would want to take the same steps the OP is taking and furthermore you also have to agree with the OP. Yes he might have given his credit card to WoW already but still thats just another door for someone to open.
Also anyone that knows near anything about this subject knows that everytime you swipe your credit card somewhere the information goes through the internet to the bank. (those card machienes are all hooked up to computers that are hooked up to the internet)
Sorry, but you are going to get trolls on an internet forum; it cannot be helped. you are entitled to your opinion, but I think almost everyone here agrees that you are being overly cautious. Blizzard is a top-notch company, and they were never do what you are suggesting. They know only what is on the account management page. Your name, your address, and your credit card number. Many shopping sites already take your credit card, and almost anyone can get your address. This is not a big deal.
Of course, there are going to be predators out there, but if they want your kids, they will stalk them. Almost all paedophiles are local and troll chat rooms to that effect. WoW would be a terribly inefficient place for them because of the distances that are probably involved. You are more likely to get scammed into entering your account information into a phoney site and people taking all of your in-game money, because they can turn around and sell that for real money.
You do not need to worry about losing information due to interception when dealing with a company like Blizzard; the odds of that happening are astronomically low. You need to worry about phishing. If your children are old enough, I would suggest explaining that to them. Paedophiles and identity thieves alike use phishing to get the information they can use to stalk them or steal from them.
The internet itself is pretty secure if you have a firewall, but you have to know who to give your information to. Blizzard is the least of your worries on that front. That line in the ToS is just to protect their collective arses when they search for cheat programs and other things. They are not looking through your private documents. Honest.
If you want a game for your children, WoW is one of the best. It is easy to understand, but it has enough depth for children to feel good about learning. It is incredibly intuitive to control, and has a good UI for beginning gamers to get used to how UIs and controls work and can be modified. It has a massive and, by and large, nice community. It is pretty, clean, and gobs of fun. The endgame can be oppressively boring, but I think that is not playing into your assessment.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Well no I'm not a parent (20 y/o) and Yes i played with other kids before. But if I had kids that young I'd rather them be outside playing and doing sports like I did in Highschool than play WoW until they are at least in their senior year in HS. That aside, its your choice as a parent and I don't judge you one bit on that. But hell if you went out of your way to make a guild for kids/friends only I guess all works out fine although Many parents I know don't go out of their way for their kids like that. Especially ones who don't play the game.
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.
Heck, I'll go one further. I dated a woman who worked for a bank in their fraud department. She was one of the people who caught a certain scam where someone walked into a store and changed out the credit card swiping devices with new ones. Apparently with the idea that they were going to then use the stored info for their own personal gain.
You never are 100% safe.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i dont think removing kids from computer solve the issue they ll just do it at friends house ,but they need to be checked yes its annoying to police them but its the only way to give them some protection without making them a noob in computers
but for gaming time restriction is a must
once a kids played say an hour an a half on week days its enough i believe after they should go play with their friend outside be it football or whats not
kids need to learn lot of various stuff not just computer ,yes computer is a must in this day and age
but its has to be policed so that nothing untoward happens to our child
Agreed, and I honestly can't see anyone who knows this game deny that this game is a time whore. It's like the "Ring," in LOTR. (Nerdness coming out), but once you start playing this game it is very hard for you to quit. I even admit I had that problem, but luckally for me certain betrayal in my real life through this game made it very easy for me to remove it from my HD and not worry about playing it. (That and the fact that the game got stupid easy.)
I don't know. I just personally feel for kids its the worst thing to expose them too. I rather have my kids do anything else but this game until they are old enough to know how bad it is. Cause at those ages, how can they understand the higher meaning of anything that happens.
(again personal family/friend guild aside.... no real arguement for that)
Veritas Vos Liberabit- The truth will set you free.