Originally posted by Kylrathin What's interesting and sad is, when they reach their target audience, they change focus again, and alienate yet another group of people. They get a few more subs (but lose more of the old players), then change focus AGAIN. They then piss off the group of people they just got, leave remnants from the previous group confused and irritated, and pull in the 3 people in existence that wanted those new features, losing hundreds of the old groups. Tux, the way you were describing Dotanuki's initiatives before, with the fairies and other douchebaggery, what audience do you think he was he going after with all the bizarre crap he wanted to add? Did you guys ever have Senate discussions about what exactly he was smoking? For the life of me, I know I can't figure it out.
That's 1st part is quite true and well said. This whole "zombie" crap is meant to appeal to "horror fans"...well...fan fiction book or not, the reality is, there areno zombiesin Star Wars and...tbqh..."horror" is the LAST thing I think of when I think of "Star Wars".
Honestly Kylrathin...I'm not sure WHO Dotanuki was trying to target. If I were to guess, I'd say he tried to reach out to those players who asked for "events" like they have in other MMOs...but the way it was implemented was grossly warped. Players wanted "events", but they wanted Star Wars events...like AT-AT spawns, random Tuskin Raider raids, Rebels infiltrating Theed...for the holiday events, I didn't think anything was wrong with going to to a big ass tree and using the radial button on it...we didn't need "presents" to smash or trees to decorate...not in SWG.
Again, wrong market. I think it clearly illustrates how SoE doesn't have the first clue about this product or the people who play it.
We DID discuss it in Private too.
Galactic Moon Festival (his 1st "party") was fine. It was fresh and new...players generally enjoyed it...the 1st day...maybe 2...but it dragged on and on and on...even the supporters of it in the Senate said it was too much of a grind and too little "fun".
Life Day...the only good about Life Day was the 1st 48-hours. They introduced the SF element to gain more tokens...an idea I was quite supportive of. The problem again was, they left it up for far too long. But...Life Day had been an SWG tradition since launch. I didn't fault him for that, nor did many Senators.
Ewok Festival of Love...well...this is where he **edit**ed up BIG TIME! This is where he turned "events" into...just...weirdness. I avoided it while it was on TC/TCP for a few days until a friend urged me to try it. I went over there, saw what it was, ran 1 mission and logged in disgust. I went straight to the forums and posted a thread in private titled "Seriously?!?!?" I went on about how bizzar and utterly strange the event was. Part of me was hoping it was a joke, thinking maybe they would replace all the NPCs and "stuff" before it hit Live - sadly, it wasn't a joke. I warned them that this was game altering stuff, things that would last forever (virtually) in a game that had one of the more "realistic" feels to it. I begged them to change their minds...they didn't.
I wish I could recall how much support I had for my post, but I just don't. Typically it would be a few of the Senator's agreeing with me, several telling me it would be "fun" and that events were "good for the game" because they "allowed the Devs to test out new things...things that might be in the PvP Update".
Well, if pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, fairy wings, sexually conflicted NPCs, gaudy wings and garishly dressed Elvis Ewoks were going to be a part of the PvP Update, I'd rather they not test them at all.
So...yes. Things were brought up, the good, the bad, the ghey...events did change a bit based on our (and the other players) feedback, and they DID try to make them less of a "grind" and more engaging...the problem was, the damage from Ewok Festival of Love had already been done.
Just a tiny bit of background - I played from June 2003 to April 2006, with a couple vet trials since then. I do remember the Life Day celebrations, and cringing a bit considering the source - everyone knows Lucas wanted the Holiday Special dead and buried, but considering what he's done since then, ugh - but never experienced the other two events you mentioned. When I first heard of the Galactic Moon Festival, it sounded very WoW-ish, probably because WoW had a Moon Fesitival at some point (and I think that's what it was called, just "Moon Festival"). But I have to admit, the first time I saw you mention flying pink Ewoks with fairy wings, I honestly thought you were either joking or exaggerating. Then you mentioned it again, and again, and I started to wonder... Then I saw the Youtube in the post below yours.
Mother of God. The words don't do it justice. What an abomination. As tragic and awful as the NGE was, and the dev team flat-out admitted they were not thinking at all of the existing player base when they developed and released it, it doesn't compare to the savage raping of our collective childhood that this unleashed. I'm not even talking about the premise of the Youtube video at all. Your anger was very well justified. They (Dotanuki) actually conceived this idea, held meetings about it, and in my opinion most heinously, SCHEDULED RESOURCES TO BUILD IT. Somebody actually got paid to create that model. Someone else got paid to implement it. This is the kind of thing that, at every other game company on the planet, at the most would have been brought up as a joke over morning donuts, maybe sketched on paper by someone with too much free time and posted on a bulletin board, then completely forgotten about until the Christmas party after the eggnog started flowing. "Hey, what the hell happened to that ghey pink flying Ewok thing? You still got that drawing? BAHAHA *ralfs into the trashcan*"
It seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that had to be the moment where thinking people were separated from those with Stockholm Syndrome. My reaction, had I been there in your position, would have been exactly as yours was. Namely, "Are you fucking kidding me?!" And then again, when most other Senators excused away the devs' actions. You had to feel like you were the only one in the room wearing pants. But this all kind of jives with the general sway of things as they've been since this game launched. You had the "omgwtfl33t" d-bags come in at launch, buy a year sub, do nothing but complain for 3 months on the forums, then quit. You had people who were serious about RP, others who were serious about Star Wars, many about both, some who wanted to try a new game, some who were joining friends, but they all had/have something in common - a breaking point. There's a line that the devs could conceivably cross that would result in every one of those people hitting the cancel button. And then, of course, there are those whose families Smed himself could douse in gasoline and set on fire, and they would justify it somehow ("They had it coming, I wasn't getting enough play time") and they would STILL play this farce of a Star Wars game. Sounds like you had more than a few of those to deal with on the Senate.
That's 1st part is quite true and well said. This whole "zombie" crap is meant to appeal to "horror fans"...well...fan fiction book or not, the reality is, there areno zombiesin Star Wars and...tbqh..."horror" is the LAST thing I think of when I think of "Star Wars". ...
Actually I think Horror could be weaved into Star Wars, but would need to be limited and somehow make sense. For example the spirit of a deceased Sith haunts a certain location. Or perhaps of some cult who worship and are attempting to resurrect a Sith Lord could work.
But yeah... Zombies and other forms of Undead Horror in Star Wars?
That just goes against principles of the Force; dealing with living things.
I guess however since The Force was not energy, but of microscopic creatures or germs, anything goes.
The next horror creature to come out, I think will be an unstoppable serial killer (Jason, Michaal, etc)...
"Dudes and Dudettes, I just saw Halloween 2 and like, we got to plug in a Michael Myers. You see we got a connection, you know, SWG has Storm Trooper Zombies, and Halloween 2 has Rob Zombie. See! We so got to do this."
"Ah sir, the customers are not going to like this, they are already upset about th..."
"You are so right. The customers are going to love this, just like the zombies."
"Sir, that's not what I said, I said..."
"I heard what you said, you said they will love it."
"No, I said, they are not going to..."
"Right, they are not going to agree with you since you are so negative. Have an open mind man. You and your negative waves."
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
"Dudes and Dudettes, I just saw Halloween 2 and like, we got to plug in a Michael Myers. You see we got a connection, you know, SWG has Storm Trooper Zombies, and Halloween 2 has Rob Zombie. See! We so got to do this."
"Ah sir, the customers are not going to like this, they are already upset about th..."
"You are so right. The customers are going to love this, just like the zombies."
"Sir, that's not what I said, I said..."
"I heard what you said, you said they will love it."
"No, I said, they are not going to..."
"Right, they are not going to agree with you since you are so negative. Have an open mind man. You and your negative waves."
Lol, that would be a good escenario in a near horrorific future mate.
And what in the name of Lucas are the SWG Devs drinking....zombies..really?!???#$%!?
Originally posted by Dracus Actually I think Horror could be weaved into Star Wars, but would need to be limited and somehow make sense. For example the spirit of a deceased Sith haunts a certain location. Or perhaps of some cult who worship and are attempting to resurrect a Sith Lord could work.
Ya know, you have a point. Horror done "right" could work in the game...unfortunately, I don't see HOW they can get horror to work in the current game.
#1) The current "Benny Hill" speed of creatures/players works completely against any feel of "terror" and actually makes horror look more like comedy.
#2) The NPC warping bug...zombies need to move SLOW...warping NPCs COMPLETELY ruins it. Death Trooper, zombie, whatever.
#3) Melee combat animations blow. *poke poke poke*...again, the current mechanics of the game make any "flesh eating" impossible. $10 says they "spit" whatever toxin they're infected with.
I could go on and on, but we all know that "terror" is more than just the setting...it needs to also be in the characters. Haunted houses aren't scary just because they're old homes or barns...the only ones worthy of going to have people playing a role too...THEY are what make a lame house tour a "haunted house". SWG just doesn't currently have the ability (as far as I know) to slow down combat or NPCs to a point where anything would be "terrifying". Exar Kun is a prime example...difficult heroic, but certainly not "terrifying".
So again, horror COULD work with Star Wars...but I don't think horror can work with SWG.
Originally posted by TUX426 Ya know, you have a point. Horror done "right" could work in the game...unfortunately, I don't see HOW they can get horror to work in the current game. ... So again, horror COULD work with Star Wars...but I don't think horror can work with SWG.
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Originally posted by TUX426 Ya know, you have a point. Horror done "right" could work in the game...unfortunately, I don't see HOW they can get horror to work in the current game. ... So again, horror COULD work with Star Wars...but I don't think horror can work with SWG.
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
There isn't very much that could work with SWG at this point, which makes the effort into things that shouldn't be done worse than it would otherwise be.
How pathetic is it that among the few posters on the OBoards that aren't completely opposed to the idea, the general feeling is either 'it might not be that bad' or 'post ideas that will make it not quite so bad'? How much of a disconnect does the dev team have to have to continue developing something where the best thing that can be said about it is 'It might not be that bad'?
I won't even get into the fact that the folks behind doing it are the same folks who have claimed they learned their lesson from the disaster of the NGE. The lesson they learned obviously wasn't the lesson they should have learned.
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Coming soon from SOE for Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars Galaxies Cantina Band! They will be selling replica instrument controllers from iconic(y) Star Wars so you can start a band and Rock The Galaxy!
Originally posted by TUX426 Ya know, you have a point. Horror done "right" could work in the game...unfortunately, I don't see HOW they can get horror to work in the current game. ... So again, horror COULD work with Star Wars...but I don't think horror can work with SWG.
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
Imagine the "horrors" (no pun intended :P ) as the "zombie" NPC warps to you, or you lose aggro and it races back to its place at super speeds that make Jedi cry. "Zombies" can't just "look the part", they have to ACT the part as well.
They're going to need new animations to make "zombies" even slightly plausible...and I just don't see that happening. DISCLAIMER: There are a LOT of unused files in the existing code. If there is any "zombie" type animations lurking under the hood of this engine, I would be wrong. But aside from A) already existing animations or grossly slowed down animations, the "zombies" will end up looking more hilarious than horrific.
$10 says they'll do something completely stupid like "insta spawning" the "zombies" right on top of you to build the feel of suspense (along with some loud "scream" of sorts) rather than having them hidding in corners like they should be.
Comments
Ewok luv day wasn't all that bad...
www.youtube.com/watch
That's 1st part is quite true and well said. This whole "zombie" crap is meant to appeal to "horror fans"...well...fan fiction book or not, the reality is, there are no zombies in Star Wars and...tbqh..."horror" is the LAST thing I think of when I think of "Star Wars".
Honestly Kylrathin...I'm not sure WHO Dotanuki was trying to target. If I were to guess, I'd say he tried to reach out to those players who asked for "events" like they have in other MMOs...but the way it was implemented was grossly warped. Players wanted "events", but they wanted Star Wars events...like AT-AT spawns, random Tuskin Raider raids, Rebels infiltrating Theed...for the holiday events, I didn't think anything was wrong with going to to a big ass tree and using the radial button on it...we didn't need "presents" to smash or trees to decorate...not in SWG.
Again, wrong market. I think it clearly illustrates how SoE doesn't have the first clue about this product or the people who play it.
We DID discuss it in Private too.
Galactic Moon Festival (his 1st "party") was fine. It was fresh and new...players generally enjoyed it...the 1st day...maybe 2...but it dragged on and on and on...even the supporters of it in the Senate said it was too much of a grind and too little "fun".
Life Day...the only good about Life Day was the 1st 48-hours. They introduced the SF element to gain more tokens...an idea I was quite supportive of. The problem again was, they left it up for far too long. But...Life Day had been an SWG tradition since launch. I didn't fault him for that, nor did many Senators.
Ewok Festival of Love...well...this is where he **edit**ed up BIG TIME! This is where he turned "events" into...just...weirdness. I avoided it while it was on TC/TCP for a few days until a friend urged me to try it. I went over there, saw what it was, ran 1 mission and logged in disgust. I went straight to the forums and posted a thread in private titled "Seriously?!?!?" I went on about how bizzar and utterly strange the event was. Part of me was hoping it was a joke, thinking maybe they would replace all the NPCs and "stuff" before it hit Live - sadly, it wasn't a joke. I warned them that this was game altering stuff, things that would last forever (virtually) in a game that had one of the more "realistic" feels to it. I begged them to change their minds...they didn't.
I wish I could recall how much support I had for my post, but I just don't. Typically it would be a few of the Senator's agreeing with me, several telling me it would be "fun" and that events were "good for the game" because they "allowed the Devs to test out new things...things that might be in the PvP Update".
Well, if pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts, fairy wings, sexually conflicted NPCs, gaudy wings and garishly dressed Elvis Ewoks were going to be a part of the PvP Update, I'd rather they not test them at all.
So...yes. Things were brought up, the good, the bad, the ghey...events did change a bit based on our (and the other players) feedback, and they DID try to make them less of a "grind" and more engaging...the problem was, the damage from Ewok Festival of Love had already been done.
Just a tiny bit of background - I played from June 2003 to April 2006, with a couple vet trials since then. I do remember the Life Day celebrations, and cringing a bit considering the source - everyone knows Lucas wanted the Holiday Special dead and buried, but considering what he's done since then, ugh - but never experienced the other two events you mentioned. When I first heard of the Galactic Moon Festival, it sounded very WoW-ish, probably because WoW had a Moon Fesitival at some point (and I think that's what it was called, just "Moon Festival"). But I have to admit, the first time I saw you mention flying pink Ewoks with fairy wings, I honestly thought you were either joking or exaggerating. Then you mentioned it again, and again, and I started to wonder... Then I saw the Youtube in the post below yours.
Mother of God. The words don't do it justice. What an abomination. As tragic and awful as the NGE was, and the dev team flat-out admitted they were not thinking at all of the existing player base when they developed and released it, it doesn't compare to the savage raping of our collective childhood that this unleashed. I'm not even talking about the premise of the Youtube video at all. Your anger was very well justified. They (Dotanuki) actually conceived this idea, held meetings about it, and in my opinion most heinously, SCHEDULED RESOURCES TO BUILD IT. Somebody actually got paid to create that model. Someone else got paid to implement it. This is the kind of thing that, at every other game company on the planet, at the most would have been brought up as a joke over morning donuts, maybe sketched on paper by someone with too much free time and posted on a bulletin board, then completely forgotten about until the Christmas party after the eggnog started flowing. "Hey, what the hell happened to that ghey pink flying Ewok thing? You still got that drawing? BAHAHA *ralfs into the trashcan*"
It seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that had to be the moment where thinking people were separated from those with Stockholm Syndrome. My reaction, had I been there in your position, would have been exactly as yours was. Namely, "Are you fucking kidding me?!" And then again, when most other Senators excused away the devs' actions. You had to feel like you were the only one in the room wearing pants. But this all kind of jives with the general sway of things as they've been since this game launched. You had the "omgwtfl33t" d-bags come in at launch, buy a year sub, do nothing but complain for 3 months on the forums, then quit. You had people who were serious about RP, others who were serious about Star Wars, many about both, some who wanted to try a new game, some who were joining friends, but they all had/have something in common - a breaking point. There's a line that the devs could conceivably cross that would result in every one of those people hitting the cancel button. And then, of course, there are those whose families Smed himself could douse in gasoline and set on fire, and they would justify it somehow ("They had it coming, I wasn't getting enough play time") and they would STILL play this farce of a Star Wars game. Sounds like you had more than a few of those to deal with on the Senate.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Actually I think Horror could be weaved into Star Wars, but would need to be limited and somehow make sense. For example the spirit of a deceased Sith haunts a certain location. Or perhaps of some cult who worship and are attempting to resurrect a Sith Lord could work.
But yeah... Zombies and other forms of Undead Horror in Star Wars?
That just goes against principles of the Force; dealing with living things.
I guess however since The Force was not energy, but of microscopic creatures or germs, anything goes.
The next horror creature to come out, I think will be an unstoppable serial killer (Jason, Michaal, etc)...
"Dudes and Dudettes, I just saw Halloween 2 and like, we got to plug in a Michael Myers. You see we got a connection, you know, SWG has Storm Trooper Zombies, and Halloween 2 has Rob Zombie. See! We so got to do this."
"Ah sir, the customers are not going to like this, they are already upset about th..."
"You are so right. The customers are going to love this, just like the zombies."
"Sir, that's not what I said, I said..."
"I heard what you said, you said they will love it."
"No, I said, they are not going to..."
"Right, they are not going to agree with you since you are so negative. Have an open mind man. You and your negative waves."
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Lol, that would be a good escenario in a near horrorific future mate.
And what in the name of Lucas are the SWG Devs drinking....zombies..really?!???#$%!?
It's a little to late for vampires in SWG , first off, its run by the bloodsuckers at SOE and Secondly since the NGE, the game sucks.
Lol! Ain't it the truth.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Ya know, you have a point. Horror done "right" could work in the game...unfortunately, I don't see HOW they can get horror to work in the current game.
#1) The current "Benny Hill" speed of creatures/players works completely against any feel of "terror" and actually makes horror look more like comedy.
#2) The NPC warping bug...zombies need to move SLOW...warping NPCs COMPLETELY ruins it. Death Trooper, zombie, whatever.
#3) Melee combat animations blow. *poke poke poke*...again, the current mechanics of the game make any "flesh eating" impossible. $10 says they "spit" whatever toxin they're infected with.
I could go on and on, but we all know that "terror" is more than just the setting...it needs to also be in the characters. Haunted houses aren't scary just because they're old homes or barns...the only ones worthy of going to have people playing a role too...THEY are what make a lame house tour a "haunted house". SWG just doesn't currently have the ability (as far as I know) to slow down combat or NPCs to a point where anything would be "terrifying". Exar Kun is a prime example...difficult heroic, but certainly not "terrifying".
So again, horror COULD work with Star Wars...but I don't think horror can work with SWG.
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
There isn't very much that could work with SWG at this point, which makes the effort into things that shouldn't be done worse than it would otherwise be.
How pathetic is it that among the few posters on the OBoards that aren't completely opposed to the idea, the general feeling is either 'it might not be that bad' or 'post ideas that will make it not quite so bad'? How much of a disconnect does the dev team have to have to continue developing something where the best thing that can be said about it is 'It might not be that bad'?
I won't even get into the fact that the folks behind doing it are the same folks who have claimed they learned their lesson from the disaster of the NGE. The lesson they learned obviously wasn't the lesson they should have learned.
I do agree.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Coming soon from SOE for Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars Galaxies Cantina Band! They will be selling replica instrument controllers from iconic(y) Star Wars so you can start a band and Rock The Galaxy!
I wish that I could say otherwise, but you are quite right.
Imagine the "horrors" (no pun intended :P ) as the "zombie" NPC warps to you, or you lose aggro and it races back to its place at super speeds that make Jedi cry. "Zombies" can't just "look the part", they have to ACT the part as well.
They're going to need new animations to make "zombies" even slightly plausible...and I just don't see that happening. DISCLAIMER: There are a LOT of unused files in the existing code. If there is any "zombie" type animations lurking under the hood of this engine, I would be wrong. But aside from A) already existing animations or
grossly slowed down animations, the "zombies" will end up looking more hilarious than horrific.
$10 says they'll do something completely stupid like "insta spawning" the "zombies" right on top of you to build the feel of suspense (along with some loud "scream" of sorts) rather than having them hidding in corners like they should be.
I still stand by my comments about Zombies in SWG in my most recent report . hit the link in my sig to see if you agree.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan